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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

B

Boem

Member
mclem said:
Or Jacobi hadn't used the fob watch to hide his Master persona yet. Wouldn't that be far, far simpler?
Click to expand...

Yeah, although I think (not completely sure on this one) he reveals in Utopia that he was found as a naked child on the shores of something or another, and that he had already lost his memory at that point. I think the implication was that he used the fob watch just before or during his regeneration (which might also explain why he regenerated into a child, which doesn't seem to be the usual process - although it's always weird with the Master).

I'm not 100% on that though, it's been a while since I've seen that episode.

Edit: Found it:

Professor Yana: Time and time and time again, always running out on me.
Martha Jones: [looking at his watch nervously] Can I have a look at that?
Professor Yana: Oh, it's only an old relic. Like me.
Martha Jones: Where did you get it?
Professor Yana: I was found with it.
Martha Jones: What do you mean?
Professor Yana: An orphan in the storm. I was a naked child found on the coast of the Silver Devestation. Abandoned with only this.
Martha Jones: Have you ever opened it?
Professor Yana: Why would I? It's broken.
Martha Jones: How do you know it's broken if you've never opened it?
Professor Yana: It's stuck. It's old. It's not meant to be. I don't know.
[Martha turns the watch over. The same alien writing as the Doctor's is on it]
Professor Yana: [suspiciously] Does it matter?
Martha Jones: No... it's... nothing. Listen, everything's fine up here. I'm going to see if The Doctor needs me.
[runs out in a panic]
Click to expand...
 
M

mclem

Member
Boem said:
Yeah, although I think (not completely sure on this one) he reveals in Utopia that he was found as a naked child on the shores of something or another, and that he had already lost his memory at that point. I think the implication was that he used the fob watch just before or during his regeneration (which might also explain why he regenerated into a child, which doesn't seem to be the usual process - although it's always weird with the Master).

I'm not 100% on that though, it's been a while since I've seen that episode.
Click to expand...

It depends on where that story originated - if he got that from people who found him, fair enough. If he remembers it, though, there's leeway - the Doctor's parents aren't actually named Sydney and Verity.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Boem said:
Also your new avatar is confusing me, I didn't realize I was talking to you until just now Bobby. Yes, I just look at the pictures instead of reading the user names, sue me.
Click to expand...

Oh shit, whoops. That was a joke for the Star Wars kids in one of the other threads. I'll switch back.
 
D

Davide

Member
Pagusas said:
I suppose you enjoyed the farting aliens too?

Between the news paper throw and the random "zoink!" Sound effects thrown through the episode, I got to wonder what the hell happened.
Click to expand...
Nah I found Strax legitimately funny in a HK-47 kind of way, in the Christmas special the most I think.

Ignatz Mouse said:
I love this season, but there are 3 duds by my reckoning, and this is one of them.

If you describe the episode, it sounds pretty great. But in execution fails badly.
Click to expand...
The climax especially was really bad, and I just couldn't believe the Doctor would so nonchalantly sacrifice himself for something like this. This episode (Eaters of Light) felt like the weakest writing for 12 as a character that there's been, just incredibly bland.

So far no episode this season has made my top 12 Capaldi episodes. Nothing as low as the lows of Tennant's series, just consistent mediocrity. I'd expect the finale has to be great though.

Bobby Roberts said:
My favorite is McGann, but the degree of difficulty is convincing people to listen to radio dramas.

Which isn't as hard as it used to be considering the transmogrification of the podcast medium.
Click to expand...
I'd really like if they brought him in for a full season simply based on the short Night of the Doctor.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Drewton said:
I'd really like if they brought him in for a full season simply based on the short Night of the Doctor.
Click to expand...

The rumor was (and I think I heard it here?) that BBC wanted a webseries (or even a between-season BBC2 miniseries) starring McGann. Like an 8 episode thing. And Moffat shitcanned it before planning got seriously underway because he didn't want brand confusion.

So we could have already had like, another 5-7 hours of McGann to enjoy.
 
C

CloudyTuba

Member
Boem said:
Yeah, although I think (not completely sure on this one) he reveals in Utopia that he was found as a naked child on the shores of something or another, and that he had already lost his memory at that point. I think the implication was that he used the fob watch just before or during his regeneration (which might also explain why he regenerated into a child, which doesn't seem to be the usual process - although it's always weird with the Master).

I'm not 100% on that though, it's been a while since I've seen that episode.

Edit: Found it:
Click to expand...

He did say that, but wouldn't his memories be falsified? A whole fake history to go with his false persona. Hard to say when the chameleon arch was actually used.
Edit: In addition, when the Tenth Doctor used it, it did not change his outward physical appearance. It makes enough sense for Yana to look the same as the War Master.

The only unfortunate thing about Yana being the War Master is that since the Doctor did not recognize him, it means this incarnation can never cross paths with the War Doctor. However considering that John Hurt has left us, it's not like that could even happen in the first place.
 
E

EvilRedEye

Member
Was so intrigued by the Mondasian Cybermen from the last episode that I bought The Tenth Planet. I'm not a massive fan of the classic series but this story is pretty enjoyable. The Cybermen are deliciously evil when they first appear - I prefer the way they're written in the first couple of episodes to any of their appearances from the new series. The new animation for Episode 4 is pretty decent too. Still a bit slower-paced than the new series in places but a nice concise four-episode story.

Made me appreciate the new episode more too since I realise now that the body horror element they brought out of the original cloth-based design isn't touched on at all the in original story and is something new.

Was looking at the rest of that production season for other stories to potentially watch - what a mess! They pretty much threw it all in the bin!
 
D

DeathyBoy

Banned
Bobby Roberts said:
The rumor was (and I think I heard it here?) that BBC wanted a webseries (or even a between-season BBC2 miniseries) starring McGann. Like an 8 episode thing. And Moffat shitcanned it before planning got seriously underway because he didn't want brand confusion.

So we could have already had like, another 5-7 hours of McGann to enjoy.
Click to expand...

Brand confusion...

Course this is the same guy who had Smith and Tennant open to doing more Who stuff together and said no.
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
Drewton said:
Nah I found Strax legitimately funny in a HK-47 kind of way, in the Christmas special the most I think.

.
Click to expand...


I enjoy Strax alot, I dont enjoy slap stick humor though, and feel it brings down any episode its in. Strax as a HK-47 is great, Strax as a Stooge is now.
 
L

lastplayed

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
My favorite is McGann, but the degree of difficulty is convincing people to listen to radio dramas.

Which isn't as hard as it used to be considering the transmogrification of the podcast medium.
Click to expand...

I will admit, I've only ever listened to some of the audio dramas just to get more 8th Doctor. They're not bad.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Bernard Cribbins pops up later in the run as a sleazy rock promoter

Also, I believe this series was the first to bring back Zygons since the Fourth Doctor? They play a pretty important part in the run.
 
H

hamchan

Member
I love the Eighth Doctor so much. The Eighth Doctor Adventures is so good (and it has such an amazing finale). If Moffat really stopped a mini-series with him happening then that's a huge bummer.
 
J

Joqu

Member
Is the big finish stuff that went up for free on spotify still there? There were some really good 8th Doctor stories on there if anyone wants to get a taste of them.

edit: ok, the above post just answered that. Free is nice.
 
L

locke_21183

Neo Member
EvilRedEye said:
Was looking at the rest of that production season for other stories to potentially watch - what a mess! They pretty much threw it all in the bin!
Click to expand...

The very next story, "The Power of the Daleks", was recently released as a full-length 6 episode animation matched to the original soundtrack, like The Tenth Planet episode 4. It's really, really good - possibly the best ever use of the Daleks. And the first "new Doctor" story.

You might also enjoy "The Moonbase", the second Cyberman story. It's 2 existing episodes and 2 animations. Not the best story by a long shot, but fun and atmospheric. Plus you can see how the designs are updated lots already!
 
L

lastplayed

Member
locke_21183 said:
The very next story, "The Power of the Daleks", was recently released as a full-length 6 episode animation matched to the original soundtrack, like The Tenth Planet episode 4. It's really, really good - possibly the best ever use of the Daleks. And the first "new Doctor" story.
Click to expand...

I saw that at the cinema! Love the second Doctor.
 
W

Worthintendo

Member
Everytime I hear that thing about Moffat squashing the McGann series I get bummed. It sucks that he is always going to be this lost Doctor who didn't really get a run, just to see him vs Daleks or Cybermen would have been great.

Heck that whole last year with no New Series, why couldn't they just let that happen, Class was OK and all, but a replacement series with McGann just to give the main crew a break would have been really good.
 
C

Cowlick

Banned
Would it be misguided to expect Simm regenerating into Gomez, Gomez regenerating into Jacobi (prior to his false watch memories), and Capaldi starting to regenerate in a sequence to be concluded in the Christmas special?

Because that's where I imagine things heading.
 
S

Sheroking

Member
Cowlick said:
Would it be misguided to expect Simm regenerating into Gomez, Gomez regenerating into Jacobi (prior to his false watch memories), and Capaldi starting to regenerate in a sequence to be concluded in the Christmas special?

Because that's where I imagine things heading.
Click to expand...

I don't think Jacobi will enter into this in any way shape or form, but I do expect Simm to regenerate into Gomez.

The current rumor/potential spoiler on The Doctor's regeneration is:

The Doctor briefly changes into his next form - revealing the 13th Doctor - but holds it back somehow, which is the cliffhanger for the Christmas special.

Savitar said:
Where does the War Master come in then since they're doing a Big Finish recording with him now.
Click to expand...

Well, I say "established" because aside from my speculation for this Saturday's episode, this is what we know took place.

I'm not sure what Big Finish is doing but it's always possible the Master de-aged himself to the form of a child without using regeneration, which would allow for him to both be Jacobi during the Time War and age into Jacobi for Utopia.
 
D

Davide

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
The rumor was (and I think I heard it here?) that BBC wanted a webseries (or even a between-season BBC2 miniseries) starring McGann. Like an 8 episode thing. And Moffat shitcanned it before planning got seriously underway because he didn't want brand confusion.

So we could have already had like, another 5-7 hours of McGann to enjoy.
Click to expand...

That would have been great. Could have been in 2016 when Who took a year off.

So I've been down on Doctor Who all year. The Christmas special was one of the top three worst I've seen and I've found the series incredibly dull. But I just watched the latest episode and it was awesome. Fantastic. The first Doctor Who episode I've really liked in two years and back to its old greatness. The opening was stunning. Ambitious, compelling, good character writing. No complaints. Unfortunate that it's only gotten good at the end.
 
V

Vibranium

Banned
Well, I've been digging the series. I'm looking forward to seeing what ending Moffat has mind for Bill, I can see something with the Pilot happening. It's nice staying out of DW threads so I can enjoy things. I was so happy to see the Mondasian Cybermen and it was perfect, love the Prototypes. I already can't wait for the finale and Christmas special, going to miss Capaldi so badly.

Moff seems to be going all out, if Twelve is dying throughout the end of the finale and special, it would be shades of The Caves of Androzani. The Doctor with nothing to lose is always fun.
 
B

Bluth54

Member
Sheroking said:
The current rumor/potential spoiler on The Doctor's regeneration is:

The Doctor briefly changes into his next form - revealing the 13th Doctor - but holds it back somehow, which is the cliffhanger for the Christmas special.
Click to expand...

That seems like a real possibility as this point. Either that or we'll get the announcement of the next Doctor fairly soon after this season ends.
 
M

M.Bluth

Member
Sheroking said:
The current rumor/potential spoiler on The Doctor's regeneration is:

The Doctor briefly changes into his next form - revealing the 13th Doctor - but holds it back somehow, which is the cliffhanger for the Christmas special.
Click to expand...

IF this turns out to be true, then Moffat would have done something I've wanted to see for years but felt it'll never happen. Add it to that list of accomplishments!

For all the disappointments and frustration he was responsible for, I'll really miss Moffat when goes. I hope that, unlike RTD, he says fuck it and writes an episode or two in 4 or 5 years—enough time to marinate on and develop an amazing story, and more importantly without the stress of showrunning.
 
D

Davide

Member
Sheroking said:
The current rumor/potential spoiler on The Doctor's regeneration is:

The Doctor briefly changes into his next form - revealing the 13th Doctor - but holds it back somehow, which is the cliffhanger for the Christmas special.
Click to expand...
While this sounds cool,
I wonder what the reasoning would be? 10 "had vanity issues", was more attached than usual to his life and the people he loved (Rose, etc) and knew that the end was coming. If Clara and Bill are both dead and he doesn't even have River there doesn't seem anything specifically that would make 12 want to stop regeneration so much.
 
M

M.Bluth

Member
Drewton said:
While this sounds cool,
I wonder what the reasoning would be? 10 "had vanity issues", was more attached than usual to his life and the people he loved (Rose, etc) and knew that the end was coming. If Clara and Bill are both dead and he doesn't even have River there doesn't seem anything specifically that would make 12 want to stop regeneration so much.
Click to expand...

The recovery time alone following a regeneration would be a good reason to avoid it, especially if there's an urgent threat to deal with.

Anyway, I just remembered, I hope they squeeze in 12 meeting Susan somehow before the end of this era. While Carol Ann Ford is still with us...
 
B

Bluth54

Member
Drewton said:
While this sounds cool,
I wonder what the reasoning would be? 10 "had vanity issues", was more attached than usual to his life and the people he loved (Rose, etc) and knew that the end was coming. If Clara and Bill are both dead and he doesn't even have River there doesn't seem anything specifically that would make 12 want to stop regeneration so much.
Click to expand...

Well after 11 got the second set of regenerations from the time lords he didn't regenerate right away either even though he used the regeneration energy to destroy the Dalek ship that was above him so there seems to be some precedence for this new set of regenerations not actually changing his body right away.
 
K

Kuraudo

Banned
I had a dream last night that the Doctor regenerated into a woman. But Moffat screwed it up by having her emerge from the regeneration pregnant, with the implication that it was the Master's child.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Cowlick said:
Would it be misguided to expect Simm regenerating into Gomez, Gomez regenerating into Jacobi (prior to his false watch memories), and Capaldi starting to regenerate in a sequence to be concluded in the Christmas special?

Because that's where I imagine things heading.
Click to expand...

That makes... less than zero sense.

Jacobi regenerated into Simm to begin with!
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Listened to Blood Of The Daleks and yeah that's some good shit. Love Dalek in-fighting. And Lucie is basically Northern Rose, which is ace.

Now I'm listening to Horror Of Glam Rock and Bernard Cribbins is weird to listen to now.
 
B

Boem

Member
Cowlick said:
Wait. Yes. Idiot. (Me.)

Simm to a new Master, is what I meant. Roberts, Gomez, Jacobi, Simm, new guy.
Click to expand...

You've still got it all mixed up. It's Roberts -> Jacobi -> Simm -> Gomez -> whoever is next.

And before Roberts it was Delgado -> Pratt/Beevers (probably playing the same incarnation) -> Ainley. That's just counting the TV Masters since the books and audios have had a couple of additional ones, and there's also the strong implication there are incarnations we haven't seen on tv (meaning there are more between Delgado and Gomez, or even before Delgado, since Pratt/Beevers played the burned out husk of the Master which was the result of him running out of regenerations, even though the only Master we've seen before then was Delgado, which means that (assuming every Timelord gets the 12 regeneration set the Doctor got) that there are quite a lot of early Masters we've never seen), but I don't want to make this any more confusing so I won't go into it more than that.

TL;DR: The order is Delgado -> Pratt/Beevers -> Ainley -> Roberts -> Jacobi -> Simm -> Gomez -> new, as of yet uncast Master.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
mclem said:
Particularly because he's an utter arsehole in that. I can't reconcile that with Wilf!
Click to expand...

I heard he was a sleazy manager but I didn't expect to be so nasty in quite the way he was! Great performance, certainly.

Stephen Gately as Tommy was unexpected too. And Una Stubbs!
 
W

wetflame

Pizza Dog
Boem said:
TL;DR: The order is Delgado -> Pratt/Beevers -> Ainley -> Roberts -> Jacobi -> Simm -> Gomez -> new, as of yet uncast Master.
Click to expand...

That's the generally accepted order, but I think what Cowlick is suggesting is that because we haven't seen Simm -> Gomez or Roberts -> Jacobi it's possible that Missy is a previous incarnation of the Master to Jacobi. I don't see that happening though, I'm sure it's been implied on the show that she's experienced the time war and being trapped on Gallifrey etc.

As a side note, is there a generally accepted reason (other than the practicalities of filming a show over decades) why the Doctor and the Master haven't met each others incarnations out of order?
 
C

ClivePwned

Member
wetflame said:
As a side note, is there a generally accepted reason (other than the practicalities of filming a show over decades) why the Doctor and the Master haven't met each others incarnations out of order?
Click to expand...

this more than anything. that and it's confusing to viewers to have different actors playing the Master and the Doctor without keeping them in sync.

That and no one tried.

That said, The Master is Delgado for me (even though I knew Ainley's portrayal first). Then Missy and Ainley. I would have loved to seen more of Jacobi's Master.

Roberts was the worst, by a long shot, next worst is Simm (I like the actor in Life on Mars, its more the manic portrayal that irritated me)
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Simm's Master is just scary to me. As much as I hate the conclusion of Last Of The Time Lords, what he did as Harold Saxon is easily some of the most horrible stuff seen in the new series. Seeing him back is like "oh fuck oh fuck oh FUCK all the Mondasians are done for".
 
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