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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

Iain Glen was in Time of Angels?! Damn, how did I miss that...

Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone is genuinely one of my favorite Doctor Who stories. It's the Aliens to Blink's Alien. I get people not liking the Weeping Angels taking a more hostile approach compared to their first appearance, but it worked for me. It's also one of the times where adding River to the story doesn't feel superfluous.

That's a nice analogy with Aliens.

I didn't mind them being on the move, but the "depictions of Angles become Angels" and them going into Amy were just needless complications IMHO. That's what I meant by overstuffed.

Iain is the Octavian, the commander of the Clerics! He's literally the biggest role outside regulars (counting River). Perhaps the lack of a beard threw you, but that's a very distinct voice.
 
Ian and Barbara probably have some of the best character growth among classic companions over the course of their run. They start super skeptical, but are totally down for mucking about by the end.

Good to know. This is definitely the problem with just watching a few serials here and there, although I do like Ian quite a bit more in The Dalek Invasion of Earth. I've got four more Hartnell serials to watch, so I imagine I'll have changed my mind by the time I get to the end of his tenure as a companion.
 

Blader

Member
Rumor is that the next animated Doctor Who reconstruction will be Shada, coming in November.

http://www.starburstmagazine.com/tv...a-to-be-bbc-worldwides-next-animation-project

That's a nice analogy with Aliens.

I only wish I came up with it first, haha.

Iain is the Octavian, the commander of the Clerics! He's literally the biggest role outside regulars (counting River). Perhaps the lack of a beard threw you, but that's a very distinct voice.

Yeah looking him up now, of course it is. Although when I first saw those episodes, it was a year before Game of Thrones started airing. I rewatched it (among many other Smith episodes) a few years ago just before his regeneration, not sure how I didn't make the connection then. Of course, maybe I did at the time, and just forgot about it now!
 
Shada was already revisited once with some bad flash animation and an alternate 9th Doctor, right?

I remember watching that eons ago.
 

mclem

Member
Ah. You're right. I am thinking of that web series they did with the robot Master companion.

I believe the Doctor was Richard E. Grant in that.

Scream of the Shalka

The other oddity about Shada, of course, is that around a half of it or therabouts were reused as the original Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency.
 

foltzie1

Member
Shada was already revisited once with some bad flash animation and an alternate 9th Doctor, right?

I remember watching that eons ago.

Scream of the Shalka

The other oddity about Shada, of course, is that around a half of it or therabouts were reused as the original Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency.

Shalka Doctor

Scream of the Shalka

Scream of the Shalka is a Flash-animated series based on the British science fiction television series Doctor Who. It was produced to coincide with the 40th Anniversary of the series and was originally posted in six weekly parts from 13 November to 18 December 2003 on bbc.co.uk's Doctor Who website.[1]

Two years before the revival. I wonder if the animated show encouraged the BBC to green light the full renewal.
 
I've only seen the 90s BBC video reconstruction of Shada with Tom Baker narrating the missing scenes to camera.

Always miffed incoming producer JNT, who still had the regulars still under contract and two extra episodes for his first season, decided not to complete or remount the serial, basically out of insecurity as a new producer (he also refused to hire directors or writers from before his time as producer).

I would love to see a full live action remount one day.
 

Vibranium

Banned
Ian and Barbara probably have some of the best character growth among classic companions over the course of their run. They start super skeptical, but are totally down for mucking about by the end.

Ian is such a badass companion. He fought people to the death and won, explored dangerous caves and tombs, and saved the Doctor's ass quite a few times. He has the manner of a gentleman, but will get his hands dirty when he must (he also killed humans in self-defense).

Him and the Doctor start off on rocky terms but eventually grow to trust and respect each other.
 
This is exactly how I felt about it, too. I've watched the speech a few times since finishing the episode and I really love it. It's a nice sentiment for Capaldi's Doctor, I think, and one of the reasons why he's my favorite (and because Capaldi is absolutely fucking amazing). Not gonna lie, it made me tear up while watching the episode, especially since I knew Simm's Master was pretty much going to spit in his face.
I might have liked it more if Simm's master didn't get slightly watery eyes as if he was being touched, just for him to spit on Doctor's face so hard. I can't buy it was because the Doctor was legitimately getting to him either. His face was poor misdirection for the sake of the moment. Now Missy? That felt genuine, and I liked it
 
Ian is such a badass companion. He fought people to the death and won, explored dangerous caves and tombs, and saved the Doctor's ass quite a few times. He has the manner of a gentleman, but will get his hands dirty when he must (he also killed humans in self-defense).

Him and the Doctor start off on rocky terms but eventually grow to trust and respect each other.

Sounds like I need to watch the rest of the serials with Ian and Barbara. I'm now really digging both of them in The Dalek Invasion of Earth. I was going to move on to some of the later Hartnell serials but I might just go back to The Edge of Destruction and watch the rest in order. Would you recommend I watch all of them?

I might have liked it more if Simm's master didn't get slightly watery eyes as if he was being touched, just for him to spit on Doctor's face so hard. I can't buy it was because the Doctor was legitimately getting to him either. His face was poor misdirection for the sake of the moment. Now Missy? That felt genuine, and I liked it

Missy was definitely genuine and I agree, I liked her reaction. I understand what you're saying, because it was misdirection for the sake of the moment, but I felt like that was pretty in character for Simm's Master. I mean, look at all the lengths he goes to in order to torture the Doctor.
 
Shalka Doctor

Scream of the Shalka



Two years before the revival. I wonder if the animated show encouraged the BBC to green light the full renewal.

His later appearance in Doctor Who made it easier to imagine the Shalka Doctor in live action.
LyuoSl.jpg
 

Lynd7

Member
Ian is such a badass companion. He fought people to the death and won, explored dangerous caves and tombs, and saved the Doctor's ass quite a few times. He has the manner of a gentleman, but will get his hands dirty when he must (he also killed humans in self-defense).

Him and the Doctor start off on rocky terms but eventually grow to trust and respect each other.

Yeah I wish we had seen him in the 50th special briefly or something.

On another note..

So I just saw a thread on Gallifrey Base about a series of short fanfilms made in the 80's that featured a female Doctor.

Its kinda interesting, the production isn't too shabby and can probably almost pass for actual 80's Doctor Who from the little I've watched.

Order to Watch:

Wrath of Eukor
Visions of Utomu
Pentagon West: A Doctor in the House
Broken Doors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LgCYTZn1tw

For all the background info this is the thread link, need to sign up to view.

http://gallifreybase.com/forum/showthread.php…
 
Yeah I wish we had seen him in the 50th special briefly or something.

On another note..

So I just saw a thread on Gallifrey Base about a series of short fanfilms made in the 80's that featured a female Doctor.

Its kinda interesting, the production isn't too shabby and can probably almost pass for actual 80's Doctor Who from the little I've watched.

Order to Watch:

Wrath of Eukor
Visions of Utomu
Pentagon West: A Doctor in the House
Broken Doors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LgCYTZn1tw

For all the background info this is the thread link, need to sign up to view.

http://gallifreybase.com/forum/showthread.php…

"The DNA matrix must have fouled...the nose is an improvement."

My broadband is down so I could only watch about a minute. It looks pretty good for a fan film, going by that brief introduction.
 

tomtom94

Member
Capaldi talks about shooting the regeneration:

"It was great, it was lovely, because we spent the whole day doing it, and it's quite a big scene, and so we didn't short-change it," he [Capaldi] said.

"Obviously it's emotional – because you're also saying goodbye to the people that you've been working with for nearly four years and that's tough.

"Also, a lot of people came to visit – a lot of people decided that that was a great day to come and see what was happening! But I didn't mind that. It was lovely."

Of the scene itself, he added: "I felt Steven [Moffat] had written something very beautiful, and very right for my Doctor, so I was just happy to try and do my best with it."

"I think what often happens in the show – and perhaps in shows generally – is that if characters are saying goodbye to each other, they often articulate those emotions better than the actors, as human beings, do," Capaldi suggested.

"So we often say goodbye to each other through the lines that the characters use – the characters and their scenes become avatars for our own feelings. So yeah, it is emotional, all of us felt that."

And Moffat says he wrote it as the Doctor leaving with nothing about his role as showrunner:

"There is no element of autobiography in writing Doctor Who – how could there be?" he said. "So there's nothing about my feelings about leaving the show in what he says. You write the scene."

(Probably for the best, but it did get me wondering. I guess it would be something like "It's time for me to change... a new mouth, to speak new words, to tell new tales.")
 

Broken Joystick

At least you can talk. Who are you?
Never really liked Smith's "I'll always remember when the Doctor was me" and stare down the camera, so I'm glad Moffat isn't doing anything similar with his position, though it's not much of a surprise. He's always been consistent in the fact that the majority of people don't know/care who the showrunner is.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
There is no element of autobiography in writing Doctor Who – how could there be?" he said. "So there's nothing about my feelings about leaving the show in what he says. You write the scene."

I don't agree with that at all. We saw RTD basically saying goodbye through the 10th doctors regeneration.
 

Blader

Member
I don't agree with that at all. We saw RTD basically saying goodbye through the 10th doctors regeneration.

well, reading between the lines, I think Moffat is trying to diplomatically say he doesn't like that idea of the showrunner saying goodbye through the Doctor, knowing full well that's exactly what his friend did, heh.
 

Ceej

Member
So why is he not a fan of the sonic screwdriver?

Heavy, falls apart and rips the jacket lining. Plus he loves wearing the glasses, says he'd "wear shades in the dark"

I find this hilarious because I quite literally have to do this for work (Scientist in a laser lab) and it looks cool as hell but it sucks being functionally blind haha
 

Blader

Member
Finished another classic Who story last night, and my first with Troughton.

The Tomb of the Cybermen
I thought this was great. It moves at a much faster clip than the Hartnell story I saw did, and feels it has more momentum and intensity to it. Not sure if that's because this one is two episodes shorter than The Dalek Invasion of Earth, or if because Troughton is a just physically more expressive and animated actor than Hartnell.

Speaking of whom, I love Troughton's Doctor. He's funny, energetic, physical, can pivot from one tone to the next seamlessly. I know Matt Smith cited Troughton as an influence on his performance as the Doctor, but I had no idea just how much of Smith's mannerisms were cribbed from Troughton's. The short speech he gives to Victoria about letting old friends and loved ones who are gone sleep in the back of his mind so he can think about new things happening in front of him was so brilliantly pulled off, and gives a very interesting -- simultaneously heartwarming and slightly cynical -- insight into the Doctor's character. I also really enjoyed Jamie as a companion, who the Doctor seems to treat as almost an equal partner.

The story loses some steam in the last two episodes, where it feels like there's a lot of standing around and then sudden running back and forth between the same three rooms; the pilot is a really obnoxious (and obnoxiously oblivious) character; and Toberman is pretty much straight racist. But overall, I really dug my first taste of Troughton's Doctor and look forward to checking out more of his run at some later date.

Up next: Jon Pertwee and The Daemons
 

Quick

Banned
Tennant's departure was tough, but it was the right time for him. And he had a pretty great send off, with a bit of cheese.
 
In my ever LTTP viewing of Doctor Who, I made it to this episode

giphy.gif


It's gonna be hard to let go of Tennant

That episode destroyed me. Definitely more so than Eleven's last episode - in part because I was really looking forward to Capaldi as the Doctor, which helped ease the transition. But man, I was so in love with David Tennant at the time. That was rough.
 

Blader

Member
The way that the four knocks were revealed to be Wilf knocking on the glass door was pretty damn good.

Tennant's performance in that scene is still imo the best piece of acting in the whole show. Hell, just the look on his face and the range of expressions he covers in the span of a few seconds, from his relief that he made out of the Master/Rassilon battle alive to hearing Wilf knocking to realizing what the prophecy meant all along to his acceptance of the situation is just...really fucking good. And the Doctor's initial rage over not wanting to die because an old man got himself stuck in a box was a kind of emotional honesty that I was really unprepared for.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Tennants acting in general is fantastic during his Doctor Who run. He's got fantastic emotional range and his emotions always feel genuine.
 

Blader

Member
Speaking of regenerations, for those who have seen it, does The Caves of Androzani work well as a standalone story? Or am I missing out by not watching a lot of Davison's run before it?

I was thinking of watching it as the Davison story in my mini-marathon this month (otherwise the only episode I'm seeing that includes him is The Five Doctors), and normally would stay away from regenerations without seeing as much of a Doctor's run as possible first. But this ep is so highly regarded that I also don't really want to wait however many months or years it takes until whenever I end up making my way to watching a fuller breadth of Fifth Doctor stories, haha.
 

tuffy

Member
Speaking of regenerations, for those who have seen it, does The Caves of Androzani work well as a standalone story? Or am I missing out by not watching a lot of Davison's run before it?
Don't see why not. At that point in his run, a lot of the loose ends had been tied up and he'd gotten a new companion in the story just before. There'll be some callbacks to previous companions at the very end, but that's about it.
 

Unit 33

Member
Speaking of regenerations, for those who have seen it, does The Caves of Androzani work well as a standalone story? Or am I missing out by not watching a lot of Davison's run before it?

I watched it without seeing any of Davidson's run, and it certainly works by itself because its just a great story.

But maybe the emotional payoff would have been better had I seen him more. Which is why im retroactively watching what I missed at the moment.
 

Razmos

Member
I absolutely hated 11's final episode. Absolute shite. I enjoyed 11 but he definitely overstayed his welcome by the end
 

Blader

Member
Don't see why not. At that point in his run, a lot of the loose ends had been tied up and he'd gotten a new companion in the story just before. There'll be some callbacks to previous companions at the very end, but that's about it.

I watched it without seeing any of Davidson's run, and it certainly works by itself because its just a great story.

But maybe the emotional payoff would have been better had I seen him more. Which is why im retroactively watching what I missed at the moment.

Perfect, thanks! Maybe I'll watch it now and then rewatch it again whenever I go through Davison's run at whatever later date.
 

tomtom94

Member
I absolutely hated 11's final episode. Absolute shite. I enjoyed 11 but he definitely overstayed his welcome by the end

Day of the Doctor / Time of the Doctor being next to each other is the perfect microcosm of the Smith era. A brilliant episode that can be enjoyed by everyone but with some fun nods to the fans... followed immediately by one that bogs itself down in trying to resolve all the loose ends in the by that point sprawling Eleventh Doctor mythos.

Seriously, there's some good stuff in Time of the Doctor (Handles :'( ) but every time I watch it I lose interest when Tasha Lem and 11 spend a full minute explaining the plot to each other. Plus I never liked the human-Daleks so them turning up also annoys me.

I will say though that Smith's final line is a good one and I liked that they played with expectations on Capaldi's regeneration.
 
Day of the Doctor / Time of the Doctor being next to each other is the perfect microcosm of the Smith era. A brilliant episode that can be enjoyed by everyone but with some fun nods to the fans... followed immediately by one that bogs itself down in trying to resolve all the loose ends in the by that point sprawling Eleventh Doctor mythos.

Seriously, there's some good stuff in Time of the Doctor (Handles :'( ) but every time I watch it I lose interest when Tasha Lem and 11 spend a full minute explaining the plot to each other. Plus I never liked the human-Daleks so them turning up also annoys me.

I will say though that Smith's final line is a good one and I liked that they played with expectations on Capaldi's regeneration.

I think the Moffat era's handling of the Daleks has been pretty consistently poor, to be honest. The Daleks shouldn't be abducting the Doctor to get them to solve his problems, they shouldn't be hovering above in a ceasefire, or in an alliance. These are the things the Cybermen are for, imo. I dunno.

Into the Dalek was better, mind, and while ultimately the designs it introduced are utter shit Victory of the Daleks has a great, very Dalek-like message when the new, pure Daleks exterminate the impure Davros ones from Journey's End. But generally speaking I honestly think even Evolution of the Daleks is a better Dalek story (extracting the Dalek story itself from all the New York guff around it) than any of Moffat's attempts with them. Asylum was a really smart idea - the Daleks so insane even the Daleks want nothing to do with them - but it's just utterly wasted.
 

Blader

Member
The only time Moffat wrote the Daleks in a way that I thought "hmm...that seems kind of dumb" was in the 50th, where the solution to ending the Time War without killing their own people was for the Doctors to bank on the Daleks watching an entire planet disappear in front of them and just continue to shoot at each other until they were all dead. For some reason!
 
Speaking of regenerations, for those who have seen it, does The Caves of Androzani work well as a standalone story? Or am I missing out by not watching a lot of Davison's run before it?

It's the only Davison story I've seen, and one of the few classic Who's I've seen-- and it was great standalone.

By far the best classic Who of the few I have seen.
 

tomtom94

Member
I think the Moffat era's handling of the Daleks has been pretty consistently poor, to be honest. The Daleks shouldn't be abducting the Doctor to get them to solve his problems, they shouldn't be hovering above in a ceasefire, or in an alliance. These are the things the Cybermen are for, imo. I dunno.

The alliance of baddies is one of the weird things about Pandorica Opens. Why are the Judoon there again? I thought they were mercenaries, or affiliated with the Shadow Proclamation...

(Answer: because they're the only props the BBC had lying around)

But I can't really disagree. The other issue is Magician's Apprentice and to a lesser extent Bill's intro slid hard into full-on Curse of Fatal Death mode with the Daleks, what with the Doctor driving Davros' chair and everything. It's quite a far cry from Dalek which was itself a deliberate response to fifty years of parodies, and it makes it more difficult to take the Daleks seriously.

Not a lost cause, though. Re-establish some of the mystery - why do they keep turning up, exactly? - and for me personally, if you're going to do a proper Dalek story for 2018, I think you've got to focus on the fascism angle.
 
I don't really mind that Moffat didn't do a good job with the Daleks. They were pretty prominent during the RTD era. I feel like they've had a kind of soft rest now - Chibnall can do a bunch of Dalek stories if he wants and it won't be like 'oh but we just had a bunch of big Dalek stories, yawn'.
 
Basically, every time the Daleks appeared in New Who they were a little bit worse. At some point that leveled off or reversed, but I am not sure when.
 

Vibranium

Banned
Speaking of regenerations, for those who have seen it, does The Caves of Androzani work well as a standalone story? Or am I missing out by not watching a lot of Davison's run before it?

I was thinking of watching it as the Davison story in my mini-marathon this month (otherwise the only episode I'm seeing that includes him is The Five Doctors), and normally would stay away from regenerations without seeing as much of a Doctor's run as possible first. But this ep is so highly regarded that I also don't really want to wait however many months or years it takes until whenever I end up making my way to watching a fuller breadth of Fifth Doctor stories, haha.

Standalone, and one of the best Fifth Doctor stories. His personality by the time of his regeneration story has gotten a little more sarcastic (as by this time he has lost his big TARDIS crew, and one companion to death), and yet he maintains his dashing, young and heroic nature.

It also features an incredible cliffhanger
the Doctor's near suicidal crash landing
with some of Davison's best acting, it must have been insane to have watched Part 3 of Caves live.
 
What I really liked about the RTD era was the introduction of the Cult of Skaro.

I loved how they showed up in series 2 (and had that amazing argument with the Cybermen) to ultimately Dalek Thay in Journeys End.

Felt like a proper reason for the Daleks to have a motive and story and wrapped up nicely with what Thay did, all interconnecting throughout the Tenths time as the Doctor.
 
What I really liked about the RTD era was the introduction of the Cult of Skaro.

I loved how they showed up in series 2 (and had that amazing argument with the Cybermen) to ultimately Dalek Thay in Journeys End.

Felt like a proper reason for the Daleks to have a motive and story and wrapped up nicely with what Thay did, all interconnecting throughout the Tenths time as the Doctor.

I really love a lot of Daleks in Manhattan / Evolution of the Daleks because when you push past the obvious low budget (the difference between this attempted representation of New York and what we'd later get in Smith's run is astonishing), and bad New York accents (complete with Andrew Garfield practicing his Spider-Man accent!) the actual Dalek drama in it is probably the most thematically interesting Dalek story told since Genesis. This is them breaking their code at last. Sec becomes an interesting character as humanity creeps into him and the actor does a magnificent job of blending the Dalek staccato into more human speech, but more interesting is how Thay, Jast and Caan slowly begin to turn on him. There's a truly wonderful shot that I absolutely adore, down in the Manhattan sewers...

"Request Information: What is your opinion of Dalek Sec?"
"We were created to follow him."
"But you have doubts?"
[draws closer]
"Affirmative."

This exchange in this episode really drives home why I think it's thematically special, and also is demonstrative of how I think the Moffat-era portrayal of the Daleks, with asking the Doctor for help, forging alliances etc, took a step wrong. The most important thing to Daleks is order, orders, the chain of command - but when Sec begins to show emotion and even asks for the Doctor's help, it is blasphemy for them. You got them unsure of what to do, down in the sewers, bitching about their commander and then eventually snapping. Then they quietly betray, and when the betrayal becomes clear they kick off and go mad. "The Doctor will step away from the controls! He is an enemy of the Daleks - and so are you! You have lost your authority!" And the great line -- "You told us to imagine, and we imagined your irrelevance."

It's a deeply flawed episode and it looks cheap as fuck, but I love the subtext of the episode for the Daleks as a race. It's brilliant.


Similarly, I sort of think the Moffat-era representation of Cybermen ran aground around Gaiman's episode where they became all-powerful, invincible against everything, able to 'upgrade' to beat anything. That episode really irritates me because the point of the Cybermen (and what separates them from the Daleks) is that they are the science fiction/space/kid-friendly sanitized (IE no blood) version of zombies - the reason them waging war is deadly is because for every one of you that is killed, they gain a new soldier by upgrading them. They swarm you - they don't need to be invincible... which is why they're still effective in Doomsday even though they can't even scratch the Daleks and we see Mickey and his crew blasting them to pieces like they're nothing. Mind, this year's representation of them was better, and it seems like the invincible angle is being slowly eased back out of existence. (Indeed, a weird thing about this year's episode is that when the newer Cybermen start to appear most of them (though not all) are the RTD-era design and not the new, snazzy upgraded design... again. Weirdly they sort of swapped places - the Cybermen became more like the Daleks and the Daleks became more like Cybermen, and neither is as effective for it.
 
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