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[Dreams-Visions]

I don't know if Bungie knows what they're doing or not really, but I do know this much: Once the next Battlefield, Call of Duty, and Halo Anniversary games come out, the population still playing Destiny would look very reminiscent of the KillZone Shadow Fall community a couple of months after launch.

That is to say, thin.

 

[lyrick]

Come on, its almost unfair to compare this to CoD, i think Bungie has to know something, as they released the best selling new ip, the best, and planned DLC that will likely sell very well, they are probably working on the sequel right now.

Or Activision is just that competent at Marketing.

They sure fooled the fuck out of me.

 

[The End]

I wonder why they took the queens stuff and iron banner down. With all the lack of content complaints surely it would of been better to leave it up.

Iron Banner was the last of the "announced" events, I'm assuming there's new stuff for october/november to take us to the first DLC pack

 

[DopeyFish]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bungie was given too much freedom to do things. Destiny reeks of a game where no one ever stood up and complained at all in any meeting (and if I can popularize the phrase "Destiny is a Shooter designed by a committee" that would be great).

Games are not made in a vacuum, they have to be able to see what others before them have done, and their pitfalls, but Bungie stubbornly proceeded to do the same mistakes. I always thought MS was being kinda heavy handed not letting Bungie work on anything except for the Halo IP, but after a month of Destiny, I gotta say maybe MS was onto something. Bungie as a studio seems to work better when given restrictions rather than letting them go all willy nilly with ideas.

In the short run, they really have tarnished their own name with the mark of horrible writing and continued belief that they don't know how to balance their own games. In the long run, I know they have to have soured a lot of people on the "Destiny" brand.

This is true of almost all devs ever

If either a) a dev gets everything they want or b) a publisher gets everything they want... chances are there will be a failure somewhere down the line.

It's helpful when a publisher can help form and focus direction, too. The exact same thing happened with Bizarre Creations, but Activision figured out how bad things were going in that company very quickly.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

http://theguardiansofdestiny.com/2014/10/14/guardian-radio-episode-82/

Good hour and thirty minute interview with Deej on Guardian Radio podcast pretty much discussing every complaint I ever heard on NeoGAF & Bungie dot net. NeoGAF is mentioned quite often


He answers all complaints, from lack of story and why certain things were cut and will probably cut back on half the speculation in this thread

So I finally got to listen to all this and I'm going to just say that the bolded is completely untrue.

First of all, I want to give props to the Guardian Radio guys for not throwing soft balls. There are some great points they make, some of which I hadn't even thought of or knew (there are dragons on Mars), and they do not hold back on giving DeeJ their unfiltered opinions. I also want to give props to DeeJ for going on it and fielding those comments as best as a community manager for a AAA studio could. After listening I really do feel like Bungie is hearing and listening and scouring for ALL of the community's complaints and I have confidence that they are giving them full consideration.

That said...

There are no answers to be found here. The entire podcast can be summed up as:

1] The mood at Bungie right now is good and positive
2] The team is actively playing the game along with everyone so we understand where you're coming from.
3] We mean it when we say we are listening. Please give us feedback.
4] That feedback has and will have an effect on the upcoming DLC

There are no explanations about the lack of story. There is no explanation about why any content was cut. No comment is made that would quell a lot of the speculation over what happened during this game's development (there isn't even a discussion about it). So, I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

That said again, it is worth a listen if only in that it convinced me that they care about our feedback and hear it and there isn't a "Bungie knows best" attitude over there. I appreciate that.

 

[John Harker]

Well the beta was a marketing beta so it wasn't really going to change a lot. Their launch window plans were pretty set for awhile. The games only been out a month so after they get the next couple expansions out of their pipeline I'm sure real feedback will make its way into the experience, outside of like the bugs and balancing and whatnot.

I can't imagine they are that disappointed, they've had a huge success so far

 

[BuzzJive]

I can sum up my issue with Destiny pretty quickly.

It's simply not worth the effort. I'm a 30 year old professional with a family. I'd AT THE VERY LEAST like to get something out of the bit of time I put into a game.

Simply put, maybe this game isn't for me. Maybe I'm the issue. I don't have 6 friends with which to conduct raids with. Due to my life, I need to be able to pick up the controller and play and not post on a forum asking for raid goers.

I'm 39, work all day and have a wife and 2 kids at home. There have been nights of Story, nights of Strikes, nights of Patrol farming, nights of PvP, nights of Daily/Weekly, etc. I've accepted that I may never hit level 30, but that doesn't prevent me from enjoying the time I put in to the game. Up until level 27, I felt like I made reasonable progress - and now it's more about just doing the parts I enjoy (mostly PvP and Daily/Weekly stuff) and waiting til enough friends hit 28 for the Raid.

To be honest, this isn't the type of game I normally go for, but I'm hooked and enjoy trying to play regularly. I WANT better gear, but I'm just having fun and trying to let the loot be secondary now (though I admit I was jonesing for a blue shotgun for almost 2 weeks). I've only got about 10 PSN friends, and 1 or 2 of them are on every time I go on.

 

[luxarific]

Bungie will continue making changes that don't significantly change the way the game is played until the first expansion.

I'm just glad I got out at week two when the game still had good resale value.

 

[Izayoi]

It's very clear, after 180 hours with the game, that Bungie had (and still has) absolutely no fucking idea what they're doing.

It's an MMO made by people with zero experience in making MMOs.

Meh. I can't be assed to do more than just log in once a week, run the raid a few times, and sign out. If I wasn't already roped into the DLC I definitely wouldn't be purchasing it.

 

[Regret Upon Approval]

I find their design too controlling. Have to play it their way.

Like the Templar encounter. Holing up, surviving and coordinating a periodic assault was enjoyable and felt like a clever tactic as opposed to throwing yourself in the thick of it. It sure involved teamwork, and maybe I really preferred the break from the typical boss battle of insta-kill close range and mob spam. More was like sick of it.

And the loot cave. Grouping up, messaging one another tips and what else made it feel like the most social part of the game. And that got stamped too.

Too stifling, restrictive.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Ofcourse, bungie knows best.

Just look at some of things they have done with their halo games and then stubbornly refused to change..

? Such as?

 

[...Scatter...]

I guess I'm not at rage level like some of you. I love the game and am looking forward to the universe growing. More strikes & raids please.

 

[Ramirez]

It's such a drastic change from Halo, their will be growing pains and moments where it seems like they have no idea. I'm hopeful for the future of the game, the raid alone offered me something I had never experienced in a shooter before. I expect future strikes to focus more on raid like mechanics and less on bullet sponges.

 

[thoseAREmySHOES]

Just popping in to say kudos on an OP which was fun to read

To be honest, this whole thread has been - lots of truly valid suggestions. Of course you gotta weed through some of the drive-by posting, but still.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Kuchera has a short article on the new loot cave egg. Check out the article or head to Skywatch to see it for yourself.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/15/6981565/destiny-haunted-loot-cave

It's a small change, but significant because it demonstrates some of the tools Bungie has implemented to enable changing the game world.

 

[Crimsonsky]

One thing is for certain, we will see when November hits if the game has staying power. By the time the first xpac hits in December it may well be a little late. That's if they are ready to unlock it in December. I'm just waiting for Dragon Age, Destiny was only supposed to occupy me for a month, but now that it's two months the grind of the game is really getting to me.

 

[tw1164]

One thing is for certain, we will see when November hits if the game has staying power. By the time the first xpac hits in December it may well be a little late. That's if they are ready to unlock it in December. I'm just waiting for Dragon Age, Destiny was only supposed to occupy me for a month, but now that it's two months the grind of the game is really getting to me.

I'm in the same boat. I thought I could just play Destiny until DA3, but I don't know if I can. Over the weekend I went back to Diablo 3 and had a blast. I think I may play that until DA3 comes out. I'll probably check out the DLC for Destiny too.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

There is no matchmaking for raids. No voice chat. No, they don't know what they're doing.

When I have to use a third party website to arrange a play session their game is broken.

 

[scytherage]

I wonder if Bungie has seen that latest Campaign leaderboard video for Halo MCC, they must be legit shocked at how creative that game will be when it comes to giving people incentive to play something over and over again.

It isn't just about the loot, there has to be something more, if you want people to keep coming back.

 

[shanafan]

They know what they are doing, they made one of the best games of the year and now they just need to release more content for it.

I agree. When I play Destiny, it's hard for me to put it down. I like how you choose what you want to do next, like playing multiplayer matches, or doing some patrols, completing story missions, etc. I like the addition of bounties to give me that added incentive to complete objectives.

And, it's a brand new game. Bungie definitely knows what it is doing. More content will become available for it, and some of that new content could change some workings of the game and hopefully bring back people - and attract new people.

 

[Ramirez]

There is no matchmaking for raids. No voice chat. No, they don't know what they're doing.

When I have to use a third party website to arrange a play session their game is broken.

Matchmaking for raids would be a disaster for everyone involved. The cheese is gone for the Templar, and the gorgon cave is ripe for trolls, I just don't see the appeal.

 

[shanafan]

I don't think they do. I've completely moved on from the game and Bungie hasn't showed me a reason to come back yet or pay more money for the expansions. A damn shame, really.

EDIT: And the majority of my PS4/XB1 friends list have moved on from the game, too. That would probably be close to 200 people total.

That was the opposite for me. I don't have 200 friends on my Xbox Live friends list, but the same people have been still playing Destiny since launch.

 

[NullPointer]

Matchmaking for raids would be a disaster for everyone involved.

Its already a bunch of strangers using slow and more unreliable out-of-game methods for matchmaking. That's happening now. Random messaging of people in the tower, forum posts looking for *anybody* to fill out a group.

The main difference between those methods and matchmaking is that matchmaking is an incredibly time efficient way of doing it, and the base of players it has to work with are ready to go right then and there.

 

[Hindle]

For Destiny 2, Bungie need to essentially go back to thier routes and just start making a great FPS again. Which is what they used to be known for.

Forget about rivalling Star Wars or Harry Potter, and focus more on level design and AI. It would be wise if Destiny 2 just reboots the concept IMO. This time with set characters that people can recognise.

The best thing that will come out of this fiasco is that Bungie will be humbled, and less arrogant for future games.

 

[HiredN00bs]

The best thing that will come out of this fiasco is that Bungie will be humbled, and less arrogant for future games.

Where are people perceiving arrogance? In my experience, Bungie employees are rather humble.

When I read these brash responses on NeoGAF, it makes me question whether people here actually understand or appreciate the great qualities and thoughtfully designed elements of this game. Getting pretty sick of the hyperbole calling them morons.

 

[darkwing]

they are doing something right, I mean it's now OT8

 

[KingV]

Where are people perceiving arrogance? In my experience, Bungie employees are rather humble.

When I read these brash responses on NeoGAF, it makes me question whether people here actually understand or appreciate the great qualities and thoughtfully designed elements of this game. Getting pretty sick of the hyperbole calling them morons.

I think what you are seeing is mass disappointment for a game that seems equal parts thoughtful and hazily slapped together.

It's like there are these incredible elements to the game like graphics and gunplay. Then they decided to wrap all of it within iOS FPS quality level design, and shitty free-to-play grind treadmills. It's equal parts Halo 3 and Tiny Tower.

It's easy to play the game a lot, but it's done in the most manipulative way. There are no micro transactions, but the game is designed as if there should have been.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

This isn't what an FPS should be. Its a MMO loot game. Not the game we were promised.

 

[ethomaz]

See I just don't agree with most of the shit talking it gets. For every fault that people complain about I've found to be fine, or even good, for the most part. RNG? Don't focus on that specificially; do factions and buy most of your equipment. Even still I've gotten a lot of good weapons eventually through RNG. Even when I got to the heavy grind around level 25, I started playing coop with a friend and then we just forgot about the grind and had fun doing the dailies and the raid and eventually we got where we needed to be. I think that's basically the point; if you find people to coop with then you start simply having fun and eventually RNG will smile upon you.
Story? Okay, that's pretty empty, but the gameplay and coop is where the game is at. The story is something that I believe could have been done much better, but it doesn't really detract from the game overall in my opinion, as it hasn't kept me from putting in 90 hours of the game.

Multiplayer? Well it's fun and they make a reason to keep playing it. It's simple, but I've never been a multiplayer kind of gamer so the fact that Bungie has made someone play multiplayer that doesn't usually says something about it. It's true that other shooters have better options for multiplayer but the fact is that multiplayer is only a part of Destiny, and not the focus. It's something you jump into for a few rounds in between strikes and other dailies. That's how I see it anyway.

I understand some criticism of the game but I just don't get all the shit talking it gets.

Great post.

I share your feelings... I'm having fun with this game like I didn't have in years... I stopped to play others games and it is my personal GOTY by a long shot.

For me Destiny is a gamer changer.

 

[cilonen]

I'd appreciate it if they patched in a story at some point.

It's like the whole game is designed to look cool - and it does - rather than be an actual world.

Take the mothyards on the Earth, one of the first areas in the game you see. Has anyone stopped to think why or how the hell the planes you climb over got there? The rusting hulks off in the distance, sure, no problem - it looks like a flat aerodrome over there, but who in their right minds tried to land transport aircraft on a piece of rocky ground a couple of hundred metres wide right next to a ravine, a major radar facility and a huge rocket launch pad with no obvious landing strip. Like almost everything in the world of Destiny it makes no sense.

 

[Dahbomb]

Level 2 in Iron Banner

I don't like Gamespot, but this video illustrates just how little clue Bungie has right now.

I like the game, I know they're probably working hard..but..

Fucking amateur hour... Jesus Christ.

 

[Ingueferroque]

I don't know if Bungie knows what they're doing or not really, but I do know this much: Once the next Battlefield, Call of Duty, and Halo Anniversary games come out, the population still playing Destiny would look very reminiscent of the KillZone Shadow Fall community a couple of months after launch.

That is to say, thin.

Different games, different crowds. Don't be too sure, more content is coming and the game is fun to play.

 

[Trace]

Even with all its flaws, Destiny is one of the most fun I've had playing a game in a long time.

I'm excited to see what they do down the line, but I will admit both the Queen's Bounty and Iron Banner events were not a step in the right direction.

 

[LaserBuddha]

I think the fundamental elements of the game, particularly the narrative, are beyond being salvaged by simple patches and expansions. It would need a FFXIV A Realm Reborn type of relaunch that replaces a lot of core content in order to draw me back.

-The core narrative is irrevocably destroyed.
-The enemies lack a depth and variety of tactics and weaknesses compared to a game like Halo that prides itself on such things.
-The guns are just the same few templates with different numbers instead of feeling like different guns.
-There is no actual socialization in the game and nothing can be easily implemented except matchmaking,
-Its already behind the curve as far as being too grindy for a modern MMO, while simultaneously having a short duration of content, which is like the worst combination.
-The mission(s) in the game is absolutely, atrociously, how-the-fuck-did-this-get-cleared boring and repetitive. I feel like Im playing a smartphone FPS where they focused on cool guns and flashy graphics to get purchases, and the actual game is a sterile wasteland of braindead enemies moving toward you with no goal other than to progress. and it just feels like a hollow shell of even a mediocre shooter campaign.

Start a revamp of your game and dont release the update until playing any random part of Destiny is just as fun and varied and challenging as your best halo campaigns. There is no amount of faction grinding that will make up for a compromised shooter experience.

 

[wsoxfan1214]

considering they're letting PvP whiners ruin PvE while lying blatantly in patch notes while ignoring issues like regenerating health on enemies in the vault, I don't think so.

 

[speculawyer]

They got in bed with Activision is what they did. Look what happened to Raven Soft. They used to make creative and fun FPS titles and now they're stuck making map packs for CoD.

I fear for you, Bungie!

Spoiler

No but seriously, they seem to have dropped the ball on Destiny, I hope they can make it work, for the userbase's sake

I can't help but think that this is part of it.

 

[ChubbleDucks]

I'm 39, work all day and have a wife and 2 kids at home. There have been nights of Story, nights of Strikes, nights of Patrol farming, nights of PvP, nights of Daily/Weekly, etc. I've accepted that I may never hit level 30, but that doesn't prevent me from enjoying the time I put in to the game. Up until level 27, I felt like I made reasonable progress - and now it's more about just doing the parts I enjoy (mostly PvP and Daily/Weekly stuff) and waiting til enough friends hit 28 for the Raid.

To be honest, this isn't the type of game I normally go for, but I'm hooked and enjoy trying to play regularly. I WANT better gear, but I'm just having fun and trying to let the loot be secondary now (though I admit I was jonesing for a blue shotgun for almost 2 weeks). I've only got about 10 PSN friends, and 1 or 2 of them are on every time I go on.

I'm in similar situation. I'm 39 work full time and have 3 kids, so I don't have the time to enter the VoG. No game of this type that requires armour to be upgraded to level up should prevent certain players to reach the lvl cap by forcing them down 1 route.

I'm currently lvl27 and know that I can only reach lvl29. Its a fun game and I enjoy the time that I get with it (mainly playing crucible or attempting to solo the weekly heroic) but there needs to be another route to lvl30

 

[Alienous]

They can't do anything but follow the script. The content that was supposed to be very likely is the content you're getting, regardless of player feedback.

Now it's just a matter of biding their time until Destiny 2.

 

[seg7]

I can sum up my issue with Destiny pretty quickly.

It's simply not worth the effort. I'm a 30 year old professional with a family. I'd AT THE VERY LEAST like to get something out of the bit of time I put into a game.

Simply put, maybe this game isn't for me. Maybe I'm the issue. I don't have 6 friends with which to conduct raids with. Due to my life, I need to be able to pick up the controller and play and not post on a forum asking for raid goers.

This.

Hunter 27 still no raids/vg.

They need to implement matchmaking in everything ASAP...

 

[Skele7on]

This.

Hunter 27 still no raids/vg.

They need to implement matchmaking in everything ASAP...

Sorry but if you went into the thread and said HI wanna raid you'd get one.

Or use www.destinylfg.com

You'll get a decent team really quickly all with mics and some experienced raiders.

I cannot think of anything worse than raiding with matchmade people, as there is a strong AFK and generally people are far more likely to quit if it's not going well...

 

[darkwing]

I'd appreciate it if they patched in a story at some point.

It's like the whole game is designed to look cool - and it does - rather than be an actual world.

Take the mothyards on the Earth, one of the first areas in the game you see. Has anyone stopped to think why or how the hell the planes you climb over got there? The rusting hulks off in the distance, sure, no problem - it looks like a flat aerodrome over there, but who in their right minds tried to land transport aircraft on a piece of rocky ground a couple of hundred metres wide right next to a ravine, a major radar facility and a huge rocket launch pad with no obvious landing strip. Like almost everything in the world of Destiny it makes no sense.

heh nevermind the gravity in every planet is the same

 

[Kadey]

I feel the game is a couple things away from being a must own. It's not a bad game but it's not the greatest thing in the world either.

 

[SlickShoes]

Matchmaking is necessary for everything but the raid.

You need to communicate with people in the raid so you should be able to communicate with them to form a raid team, matchmaking would not be good but some sort of tool would be.

We were short last week because 1 player dropped out, we posted on reddit and within 5 minutes we had a player fighting with us against Atheon and 20 minutes later we had completed the raid.

No matchmaking for the weekly strike is ridiculous, if they want people to communicate they should add in matchmaking only works when your headset is plugged in or something.

Still they need to add in ways to communicate, the Tower should be connected to other Towers and have a chat channel so you can look for players and form teams to tackle content that has no matchmaking.

 

[Footos22]

Matchmaking for raids would be a disaster for everyone involved. The cheese is gone for the Templar, and the gorgon cave is ripe for trolls, I just don't see the appeal.

We played it last night on hard and have come up with another cheese for the templar and then oracles before it. its actually even easier.

Oracles you just put one chap in the templar chest cave and he sits there the whole time doing nothing. the minotaurs want his blood but cant do shit.

2 up on the right over the top of the cliff from spawn point. easy to get too. they didnt block this off. you can snipe every oracle from here apart from back right and front left.
1 down on little platform to left of spawn, you can just about hit the back right one from here. The other 3 just stay at spawn and worry about the front left and help with any other in view.

Dont have to kill any adds at all apart from the 2 left hobgoblins.

Templar, the only person on the ground you need is the relic holder.
everyone else gets on platform above spawn and just waits for shield to go down .
Relic holder runs about like a loon just killing harpys and dealing with the 2 back oracles. as other can see the other ones. He cant really die especially if your a level 30, let off super and then run around again. went down super fast. We fucked up near end as killing oracle with a relic smash is finiky. but luckily he only needed one moire super in his face.

 

[Limality]

Did the Raid for the 2nd time yesterday....I feel betrayed....I only netted Ascendant stuff...only 2 of my Teammates received either a weapon, or more of the same Raid Gear...what the eff gives? I'm certain I won't be able to reach level 30 by year's end if this crap goes on.

I've maxed my Legendary Helmet, Legendary Raid Gauntlets, Exotic Raspberry and Legendary Boots. I'm now stuck at level 29....good times are coming!

 

[Zakalwe]

Its already a bunch of strangers using slow and more unreliable out-of-game methods for matchmaking. That's happening now. Random messaging of people in the tower, forum posts looking for *anybody* to fill out a group.

The main difference between those methods and matchmaking is that matchmaking is an incredibly time efficient way of doing it, and the base of players it has to work with are ready to go right then and there.

No, the main diffference is those who are actively seeking out groups via third party methods are much more likely to be commited for the time required to complete the raid.

Many people using MM do so on a whim, and people who play content on a whim are much more likely to be less commited. You gwet peopel dropping out of pvp and strikes often, if that happend during a raid it would be problematic. And it would happen, a lot.

It would bring many players who don't understand the time commitment, how by working with the same team through the entire encoutner to build the rapour and synergy required to efficiently take down each new section is almost essential, and that teaching/learning new players every time someone drops out and MM replaces could make the experience a chore.

It would also open it up to griefing much more as players would be more inclined to grief if they didn't have to go through the process of seekign a group and speaking with people and actually engaging with them personally pre-raid.

The issues that MM brings could also turn people off of raid content. If MM matched an entire group of newbies who had no idea about time comittment, difficulty, etc... it could potentially sour the entire thing. Right now a newbie can find a group with people who are actually commited to learning, or include a person with experience to lead.

MM is not always a good idea. Other games have done it, sure, but they do bring with it their share of problems. On occassion you will find that one MM group that syncs up and creates a great experience, and for experienced raiders who need a 6th man quick it might be a good tool, but for many it will cause frustration.

A much better idea, imo, would be to enhance the social feautres in game. Give people flags so they can mark themselves as "looking for raid", then a search filter so you can find willing players to group with. Maybe an in game party board where you can leave messages looking for the type of players you'd like to group with, proximity chat in tower, etc... ways for you to actively search for a group in game.

Players with limited time could use these feautres to plan ahead and find likeminded players with similar schedules, it would eliminate players jumping in on a whim and all the issues MM brings.

EDIT: I'd like to say this isn't about mothering players, but about presenting a way to prepare for the content that would require a player to actively seek out a group. This act alone requires a little more commitment, and is a good base for the commitment required for the content when you're a new player.

 

[JimmyRustler]

I don't know if Bungie knows what they're doing or not really, but I do know this much: Once the next Battlefield, Call of Duty, and Halo Anniversary games come out, the population still playing Destiny would look very reminiscent of the KillZone Shadow Fall community a couple of months after launch.

That is to say, thin.

Bold thing to say considering all the games you mention work completely different in the multiplayer than Destiny. I for one have no intention to move to one of those.

 

[seg7]

Sorry but if you went into the thread and said HI wanna raid you'd get one.

Or use www.destinylfg.com

You'll get a decent team really quickly all with mics and some experienced raiders.

I cannot think of anything worse than raiding with matchmake people, as there is a strong AFK and generally people are far more likely to quit if it's not going well...

Yeah i know, i hit destiny lgf when i was 25 got no luck in weekly... i know is mostly my fault not having hit it again, almost at 28 will try again for sure, not desperate yet Having fun grinding van rep, jump into public randomly... taking my precious time (40 with kid also).
(It work just fine in xbox snapped)
I'm just hoping for a patch that bypasses this social awkwardness.
See:
http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2jchvb/i_decided_to_create_a_ui_concept_based_on_this/

 

[Zakalwe]

I don't know if Bungie knows what they're doing or not really, but I do know this much: Once the next Battlefield, Call of Duty, and Halo Anniversary games come out, the population still playing Destiny would look very reminiscent of the KillZone Shadow Fall community a couple of months after launch.

That is to say, thin.

Those games don't offer the same experience at all. They don't have the overlap of pve and pvp that is a huge draw for many.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Those games don't offer the same experience at all. They don't have the overlap of pve and pvp that is a huge draw for many.

Neither does Destiny to be fair. You either play PvE, or you go into a separate mode to play PvP. There's no overlap. Unless you count that one mode that carries over your weapon and armour stats.