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DOOM Lead Programmer: 4K Gaming On Xbox Scorpio Is A Waste of Resources
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
mitchman
Gold Member
You won't find HDR in any 1080p TV, so I guess you'll need to get that 4k TV anyway now
I feel like I should save this quote somewhere.
Doom is a game that really demands 60 FPS at minimum. The gameplay is very fast and it is a must that the game feels as responsive as it can. Even though I could've gotten 4K 30 FPS on my PC I choose 1080p 60 FPS.
I think if MS and Sony are going all in with mid-gen upgrades then they need to start adding PC-like graphical sliders. That way everybody can adjust the settings to their liking and we don't get these unnecessary 4K vs 1080p debates. Doing that would forfeit a huge benefit of consoles which is their simplicity; the ability to just play a game without having to tinker with settings. But I think Sony and MS already destroyed the benefit of simplicity by introducing these mid-gen console upgrades. If you want to compete with PC might as well go all in.
AirPowerFTW
Member
Isn't that the same guy who swore there was "no way" they were giving up 40% performance to the PS4 in Xbox One (before release), and that there was secret sauce that would blow our minds? Microsoft invented DirectX!
I'll take Penello with a grain of salty skepticism and a large dose of show me the receipts.
As for the MS strategy, I think they would be very smart to push for a fairly simple dual graphics option that consumers can understand. If the PS4 Pro has taught us anything, it's that 1080P still matters and gamers just want to understand WTF their options are.
I would market Scorpio as providing two options for gamers and then require games to keep their graphics settings to two levels: 4K or 1080p.
- 4K would be at least as good as the Xbox One (graphics and frame rate), and ideally still target 60fps where suitable.
- 1080P would be 60fps in all cases, and have as many bells and whistles turned on as it can sustain at this fps, providing a marked graphical setting improvement over the Xbox One.
I think Rise of the Tomb Raider got it pretty right on PS4 Pro. Three options that are easy to change between and don't complicate the issue too much for console gamers (btw I went with 1080/60fps all the way on that title - 4K didn't offer enough wow to justify 30fps).
Forcing developers and users to 4K is a mistake, but providing an easy toggle between 1080/4K is empowering and makes everyone happy.
Wishmaster92
Member
completely agree with this.
This guy gets it.
Gotta sell those fucking TV's and we still in the performance gutter. We're never getting out on consoles.
By his logic, even more so.
By his logic, even more so.
I have a 60" 4k TV and the PS4 Pro, and I'd agree. I sit about 8ft away from the TV and 1080p(but no lower please.) still looks fine to me. Using the extra power for HDR, better anti-aliasing and frame rate makes way more sense. Now on a PC higher resolution is better, but that's because I'm close to the screen. TV can get away with just 1080p with good AA. 4k resolution looks amazing, but it's not a fair trade for performance.
Depends on the devs.
FF XV has an unlocked frame rate mode which is apparently working between 40 - 50 FPS and apparently the devs are working on a Pro patch which will be out at some point in December and is targetting getting the game up to 60 FPS at 1080p.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
I've been saying this for ages and usually catch shit for it. Native 4K is a waste of resources, even on high end PC gpus. Don't get me started on how stupid 4K at only 30fps is.
BriareosGAF
Member
We went through this exercise at the start of this generation--1080p vs filmic 720p. And we all know who won that argument. No amount of back-patting can deny the fact that the two easiest ways to discuss comparative performance are resolution and frame rate, and there is significant value in that vis a vis marketing, the press, etc.
Not speaking for employer.
Not speaking for employer.
Uh, they've been saying it's up to the devs since pretty much the day it was announced. I mean, of course I expect you to create a dooms day scenario where MS can't possibly win, but it's not the reality of what happened. Fanfiction I think they call it?
Possumowner
Member
Have to say I tend to agree
BradleyLove
Member
He's right, and the same applies to Pro.
XB1 quality graphics at 4K native, or PS4 quality graphics at 1800p? Nah, I'd rather see better graphics at 1080p. Just imagine what we could get at 1080p with 6/4.2TF.
Resolution ain't everything. Put it this way, 1080p looked damn fine on my mate's 55" 4K Sony from the couch.
XB1 quality graphics at 4K native, or PS4 quality graphics at 1800p? Nah, I'd rather see better graphics at 1080p. Just imagine what we could get at 1080p with 6/4.2TF.
Resolution ain't everything. Put it this way, 1080p looked damn fine on my mate's 55" 4K Sony from the couch.
and that would be perfectly fine.
That's decent. I'm all for allowing devs choice but I wish Sony and Microsoft could guarantee at least a 1080/60fps experience. That is much more enticing than 4k CLASS gaming.
I'd agree with that as well, native 4k is a waste of resources on fixed SKU devices like a console. It makes more sense on PC where you can buy an entire range of GPUs, multiple GPUs in SLI/Crossfire, or run older games at 4k because the performance cost is lower.
Even though I'll probably get a 4k TV at the end of 2017, I'd still say higher fidelity 1080p is worth it, especially if we could see good looking 60fps games at 1080p that the Scorpio could probably deliver vs. the weaker PS4Pro or vanilla consoles. Sony's upscaling solution is also probably a better solution in the interim to get some of the anti-aliasing benefits of 4k.
Even though I'll probably get a 4k TV at the end of 2017, I'd still say higher fidelity 1080p is worth it, especially if we could see good looking 60fps games at 1080p that the Scorpio could probably deliver vs. the weaker PS4Pro or vanilla consoles. Sony's upscaling solution is also probably a better solution in the interim to get some of the anti-aliasing benefits of 4k.
General Lee
Member
Rather than having enough grunt for 4K native, I'm hoping Scorpio will have a stronger CPU side so 60 FPS titles would be more common. A lot of 30 FPS console titles are shoddily optimized beyond that target and PC ports suffer from it when trying to hit 60. While 60 FPS target is a design decision more than anything else, considering that multiplat devs need to support all these old Jaguar based consoles I could really see them consider making more games 60 FPS with Scorpio, assuming it's using a more powerful CPU. It's actually my biggest disappointment about Pro that they only slightly upped the clock, which at best gives us fluctuating unlocked fps modes.
DrowsyJungle
Member
That's what I'm saying in the first place. If it is AMD Zen then I'm sure they'd still have the specific hardware to run original XB1 games without a patch. I'm almost positive that they're going to still have esram in place as well.
Lol yeah. Everybody here keeps saying he is right without realising that his statement applies even more so to the PS4P given the difference in power between the two.
Not if you want these companies to stay in business and make things you want.
Do you want your TV shows to look better? Do you want your movies to look better? Do you want all this at a reasonable price? Then you want more 4K content and people buying 4K tvs.
Well said. I could not agree more.
Nothing. Tweets are 5 months old.
i'm totally satisfied with the way TV shows and movies look on my current TV.
RowdyReverb
Member
I'm fine with this. Much less expensive to upgrade my console than to upgrade my 1080p TV
Personally I think this generation still has a lot to give in terms of graphics. Look at the games we got this year; UC4, GoW4, FH3 etc. Also, games from the previous years; Ryse, Driveclub, RoTTR, Batman, The Order 1886, etc. Next year is also poised to be even more stellar; Horizon, Days Gone, God of War, and lots more.
I don't mind what both companies are attempting, which is presenting this gen graphics at immaculate or near enough IQ, be it in the form of higher than 1080p to 4k for 4ktvs or downsampled to 1080p. I have realised that I am alot more sensitive to IQ issues in games the more good looking they get.
So, the same or better than this gen graphics at much better IQ and better performance than the base systems.
I don't mind what both companies are attempting, which is presenting this gen graphics at immaculate or near enough IQ, be it in the form of higher than 1080p to 4k for 4ktvs or downsampled to 1080p. I have realised that I am alot more sensitive to IQ issues in games the more good looking they get.
So, the same or better than this gen graphics at much better IQ and better performance than the base systems.
CyberPunked
Member
He's right, it's the same for any console. The graphical sacrifices are incredibly high.
MetalGearSilly
Neo Member
I agree with this.
Are they pushing 4k because they wanna sell 4k tellies? People are probably gonna buy Samsung anyway...I dunno.
Spartancarver
Member
He's right. Even as a PC gamer I'd rather have 1080p or 1440p with all the bells and whistles turned up / higher frame rate than 4K. It really feels like people are rushing into 4K gaming especially since not so long ago we were having games on console that were struggling to maintain 30 FPS at 1080p native.
Nothing. Your expecting them to make graphics a next gen level priority at 1080p? That will never happen as long as they have to focus on PS4 and XB1 as well.
TakeItSlowDude
Member
I hope devs end up using dynamic resolution (with a fixed 4K UI) with a high quality AA solution instead of trying for 4K, it is the best solutions out there. Playing Titanfall 2 at 4K while using dynamic res on the PC with TSAA both looks and works great. Also making Freesync over HDMI work on the Scorpio would be a big win (even with dynamic res it would be useful in catching the initial frame time inconsistencies before the res drops).
AcePartyN7
Member
Agree, just give us 1080p 60fps.
Fake 4K isn't a waste of power, it's actually a better use of that power than native 4K. It doesn't require near the same amount of power, and it offers a great benefit on 4K screens over 1080p. Not to mention it offers a great AA solution for 1080p screens. Until we have 10TF consoles and 4K 30fps is more attainable, I think this half-step is the best compromise point