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[Kacho]

Old as fuck but I still agree. I think it's foolish to shoot for 4K on consoles so soon. Going for 1080p as the standard with more games running at 60fps and/or pushing the eye candy would be more beneficial IMO.

They seem adamant on pushing 4K though so who knows. Maybe they're going to surprise us with what the thing will be capable of. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until we know more.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

ofc. Anyone that thinks 4K with current Xbone visuals is achievable with the Scorpio is fooling themselves.

You are insane.

Do you even realize how big a jump Scorpio is going to be over the 1.3tflop Xbox One? Then there are the memory bandwidth and possible CPU enhancements to consider, on top of what will almost certainly be a much more efficient and more powerful graphics chip.

It will easily be able to do current Xbox One visuals at 4K, and even be able to improve the visuals further at 4K. Do I want that? No, I would like a lower resolution target so they can take the games even further.

 

[Kieli]

Lol @ waste of resources. I'd rather play a game at 5k/30fps than 4k/60fps if the IQ is terrible otherwise (which is very often to be the case with games that lack a good TAA solution). And don't get me started on trying to do 144fps when the resolution is a laughably low 1440p. Now that's what I'd call a waste of resources.

Holy Batman. Hyperbole all o'er the place.

 

[Stealthcobra]

Honestly i like this. Feels like Sony and Microsoft are actually trying this gen to win the war. I will be reaping on both sides thank you.

Exactly.. Probably getting me an xbox and a Switch... This ps pro wows me every time i turn it on. No need to analyze the shit out of it.. Tera what.. Giga huh... Turns on 4k hdr tv and plays.. Looks awesome.. Thats all i care about. Not none of this not really 4k..omg its 29.19 fps... None of that nit picky garbage

 

[Atomski]

I agree. The greatest shame of the last two console generations is that we've barely even had a taste of stable 1080p gaming at its best, and all of a sudden we're jumping to 4k.

To sell tvs.. same reason they pusher 3d junk last gen.

 

[DangerMouse]

I'd take that bet all day long for first party games.

Getting to "native 4K" without the details of how it was done means nothing though. If they "dumb down" the graphics and lighting and stuff like AI processing to make it achievable that doesn't make him wrong.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

To sell tvs.. same reason they pusher 3d junk last gen.

Always knew that would be a waste.

 

[Carlius]

4k gaming is a waste in general..

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

So does this mean that developers will now have to make three versions of their games?

An all the bells and whistles 1080p mode for Scorpio
A regular version for Xbox One/Xbox One S
and an upscaled 4k version for Scorpio

This is going to hurt

 

[dlauv]

Wouldn't 1080p with super good graphics upscaled to 4k be better?

The upscaler on Xbox 360 was pretty great.

 

[ViolentP]

You are insane.

Do you even realize how big a jump Scorpio is going to be over the 1.3tflop Xbox One? Then there are the memory bandwidth and possible CPU enhancements to consider, on top of what will almost certainly be a much more efficient and more powerful graphics chip.

It will easily be able to do current Xbox One visuals at 4K, and even be able to improve the visuals further at 4K. Do I want that? No, I would like a lower resolution target so they can take the games even further.

Based on what actual evidence?

 

[DangerMouse]

That's decent. I'm all for allowing devs choice but I wish Sony and Microsoft could guarantee at least a 1080/60fps experience. That is much more enticing than 4k CLASS gaming.

This will never happen. There's always more tweaking that can be done at 30fps to make many devs and gamers prefer that too, it's all choice.

 

[Barakov]

If you want 4k, you buy a PC with the top of the line stuff. For consoles 1080p 60 fps with great graphics should be the priority.

 

[Cuburt]

Been saying this.

It's basically "lol future-proofing", when there is so much further they could push 1080p gaming right now when it's just now being something consoles can more easily run 1080p at 60fps, but now they are trying to push "the next big thing" since the TV industry is all about that train and they want to cash in on the gimmick while people are still sold on the hype.

If you want 4K, if you want bleeding edge, you buy a PC. If you want the console experience, there are many more things to prioritize over 4k resolution, sure higher resolutions could be cool, and PS4 Pro's checkerboard rendering is a decent compromise for people that needed to have the 4k TV right now and want a better quality imagine for their gaming console, but 4k consoles are just too early for most console gaming to worry about.

 

[chillybright]

Guy is right.

 

[Mullah88]

So does this mean that developers will now have to make three versions of their games?

An all the bells and whistles 1080p mode for Scorpio
A regular version for Xbox One/Xbox One S
and an upscaled 4k version for Scorpio

This is going to hurt

does pc devs make multiple versions of a game?

 

[dogen]

does pc devs make multiple versions of a game?

No, but it still makes the job harder.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Microsoft could barely get the Xbox One to handle 1080p and now they think they can 'jump in' to 4K with no problem, and at a price that's feasible? I think most people would be ecstatic to have a game console do just 1080p and high frame rates instead but it looks like they want to get back at Sony for trumping them this whole generation.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

4k gaming is a waste in general..

No lies detected, but I only say that because I have no 4K screens. :3

 

[Dream_Journey]

I need to ask like that: Do you want The Witcher 3 before downgrade version with 1080p or downgraded version with 4K?

Can't share as a link now, please find and look at it. I'm talking about 15 minutes gameplay video.

 

[ghibli99]

I love 4K gaming, although it does require high-end hardware to move AAA games at a good framerate. I have my doubts that Scorpio will deliver to the high expectations set (especially if the PS4 Pro threads are any indication). We'll see what's what a year from now, though. I think most people who say they don't believe in 4K have never played in it natively. Forza Horizon 3 in 4K, even at 45-55fps, is amazing.

 

[pottuvoi]

Native 4k is waste of resources.
The future is in all these ways to do less work to get better quality on screen. (On all resolutions.)

 

[Noobcraft]

Native 4k is waste of resources.
The future is in all these ways to do less work to get better quality on screen. (On all resolutions.)

You're not going to get any better than native outside of downsampling.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

I like 4K on my PS4 Pro

 

[supernormal]

Based on what actual evidence?

Penello has posted it on this very forum quite a few times. We should expect whatever currently runs 1080/30 on the One to run at 4k/30 on the Scorpio with the same graphics fidelity. Same for 1080/60 = 4k/60.

 

[Unfriendly TimeTraveler]

Think the best thing is give gamers the choice to want 4K or not. Because it is odd to see there was a push for 60 frames to go away in favor or the game looking good.

Would always take performance over looks but I guess 4K for company's was a big cool new thing to get some people interested in buying something new and an expensive tv.

 

[Ranger X]

Well, I have to agree with him. 1080p is where its at. And for a super duper long time. Well until we all have 60 inches + tvs.
Putting money and time on those 3 guys having a 4k set, it does not make business sense.

 

[Koobion]

So very true. Chasing native 4k on the Scorpio will lead to disappointing performance and minimal room for IQ improvements in so many ways. Same with the Pro.

 

[pottuvoi]

You're not going to get any better than native outside of downsampling.

With same amount of used power?
You can get quite good looking 4k image with better overall quality and antialising.

Pure ordered grid spatial supersampling is not good choice due to bad samplle locations.
Jittered or rotated grid would be better.

 

[Aceofspades]

Yup, give me 640x320 with all bells and whistles!


On a serious note, 4K the logical step in TV tech, at one time 640x320 was considered "high definition" mode for games. 720p at one point was very demanding to achieve. 4K these days are really expensive on the GPU resources, also future increases in resolutions will be very expensive to achieve. so the smart thing to do is creating techniques that ensure closer results to native res with a fraction of the cost. That's why I think Sony's checkerboarding tech is really impressive.

Sony should Patent this technology since it will be used alot in gaming in the future.

 

[ChosenPredator]

I would love a focus on AI/gameplay/innovation maybe make the system a stronger beast for more powerful games but 4k to me is more for a console warrior measuring dck contest. I just want developers to have room to create something that runs well and looks great doesn't necessarily need to be 4k.

 

[DooMAGE]

I would love a focus on AI/gameplay/innovation maybe make the system a stronger beast for more powerful games but 4k to me is more for a console warrior measuring dck contest. I just want developers to have room to create something that runs well and looks great doesn't necessarily need to be 4k.

Agreed.

 

[krang]

Well it's a good job he can use it however he wants, then.

 

[Fisty]

Always knew that would be a waste.

Lol yeah because there's no new huge emerging technology that is using 3D extensively (and motion controls too)

 

[Yopis]

I disagree.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

I agree. I wish these mid-gen upgrades wouldn't focus on 4K. It is such a waste of resources in my opinion.

 

[Horp]

I'm a bit of an IQ freak. 4k is sooo nice on my computer monitor. But on my TV, several feet away, I'm really quite content with 1080 + good AA. I agree with the Doom lead prog.

 

[Zuzzissm0]

I wouldn't be surprised if we get a lot of games going the PS4 pro route with a native 4k mode and a 1080p with all the bells and whistles mode.

of course we will see this because its cheaper to make the same patches for all consoles. but i hope we will see more 1080p + stuff and not how it is at the moment on the pro where only Tomb Raider gives a good amount of choices.

Xbox exclusive games will always/at the start run on native 4k plus nothing more because MS pushed itselfe in that corner.

i want BF1 1080p/60 and a lot of max graphics settings and that i want for a all games in the future

 

[pottuvoi]

Sony should Patent this technology since it will be used alot in gaming in the future.

Just no.
Software patents are really really bad idea.

It's better for everyone that techniques evolve due different people implementing them and changing things for better.
Sharing information is a great thing and something we should thrive toward. (And most likely the reason why Sony has checkerboard rendering..)

 

[Milly Osworth]

Just give options. 1080/60 and 2160/30.

 

[SPCTRE]

He's right. I just hope all the 4k hype hasn't already gone to people's heads, with them declaring 1080p looks "blurry" already

it is too late, mother

I have seen everything

 

[krang]

Yup, give me 640x320 with all bells and whistles!


On a serious note, 4K the logical step in TV tech, at one time 640x320 was considered "high definition" mode for games. 720p at one point was very demanding to achieve. 4K these days are really expensive on the GPU resources, also future increases in resolutions will be very expensive to achieve. so the smart thing to do is creating techniques that ensure closer results to native res with a fraction of the cost. That's why I think Sony's checkerboarding tech is really impressive.

Sony should Patent this technology since it will be used alot in gaming in the future.

Just no. Why would you want this?

 

[Mr Reasonable]

I'm glad this is being talked about. I don't want the most powerful consoles in the world and then: Motion Blur and 30fps.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Cause and effect. More shouldve spoke out against the resolution wars. Youll have both Sony and MS chasing the highest resolution over each other from now on. Its what was prioritized in most conversations over the last three years. Gamers got the future they deserve.

 

[Scoobie]

4k is easy for marketers to latch onto but in reality I'd take more bells and whistles at 1080p. I'm happy with 1080p on TV at the moment and will be a while before I upgrade to 4k.

 

[kcxiv]

With this type of mentality, no one will ever buy 4K tv.

on one hand people complain about not enough content for 4K. When companies are giving them incentive to make the switch. People are saying there are not enough 4K TVs out, so they should focus on HD content only lol

I give 0 fucks about 4k gaming. 1080 is fine for me. I never been a graphics whore though. As long as the game is fun. im in.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Yup, give me 640x320 with all bells and whistles!


On a serious note, 4K the logical step in TV tech, at one time 640x320 was considered "high definition" mode for games. 720p at one point was very demanding to achieve. 4K these days are really expensive on the GPU resources, also future increases in resolutions will be very expensive to achieve. so the smart thing to do is creating techniques that ensure closer results to native res with a fraction of the cost. That's why I think Sony's checkerboarding tech is really impressive.

Sony should Patent this technology since it will be used alot in gaming in the future.

They already have:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160005344A1/en

Honestly, I find this entire debate to be stupid. There's way too many fanboys trying to equate the current situation to the one that happened back in 2013 but they're completely ignoring the context in the process. The reason why the Xbone was mocked for not consistently hitting 1080p wasn't because it couldn't do it, it was because it couldn't do it in 2013 when everyone had a 1080p TV. Expecting native 4K support in 2016 is a waste, it'll be years before 4K TVs saturate the market, those resources are far better spent somewhere else.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

With this type of mentality, no one will ever buy 4K tv.

on one hand people complain about not enough content for 4K. When companies are giving them incentive to make the switch. People are saying there are not enough 4K TVs out, so they should focus on HD content only lol

I guess the expectation is that in the next couple of years 4k TVs will become the most commonly sold tv, just like HD took over from SD but initially didn't have much content.

 

[GHG]

Based on what actual evidence?

This is where I'm at with all of this as well.

We haven't even seen a prototype of the console, let alone a game running on the proposed hardware yet. It's all speculation, smoke and mirrors so far as far as I'm concerned.

 

[pottuvoi]

They already have:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160005344A1/en

Pretty sure that was the ps2 emulation at higher resolution trick. (Not checkeroard seen in ps4)

Patent is also pending and hopefully not granted due to there being prior art for similar methods.