furrygiblets
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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MurkyZebra2417
Member
I'm also in, need some people to play with though, add me on Steam if you like:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Tryckser
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Tryckser
TyrantGuardian
Member
Steam: TyrantGuardian
Add me and let's play some games with people who actually read the chat!
Add me and let's play some games with people who actually read the chat!
Iced_Eagle
Member
MrKnives said:
How do you put a channel on auto-join?
Also, how do you create chat channels?
Yesterday I played a bunch more games. I played my first game as Skeleton King (so easy!) and also did a lot more games as Shadow Shaman.
I think it's official for me. Even with the problems that Dota2 has, I already love it more than HoN. At about 23 hours played right now. My friends have been giving me tons of shit that I've been playing dota 2 and not skyrim.
Iced_Eagle said:How do you put a channel on auto-join?
Also, how do you create chat channels?
Yesterday I played a bunch more games. I played my first game as Skeleton King (so easy!) and also did a lot more games as Shadow Shaman.
I think it's official for me. Even with the problems that Dota2 has, I already love it more than HoN. At about 23 hours played right now. My friends have been giving me tons of shit that I've been playing dota 2 and not skyrim.
when dota2 finishes loading, press the + sign in the middle of the screen or so. It will show you a list of channels
Iced_Eagle
Member
x3r0123 said:
Right. That's how you join chat channels. But is there a way to auto-join them so I don't have to join them every time I launch the game? I know there's a way to do it with your autoexec.cfg, but I was hoping there would be a way to do it in the UI because I'm lazy.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Or, if you're like me and sometimes play two Steam games at once, you need to close the other game. Or, if you're like everyone, sometimes that other game doesn't close properly, and you need to open up the task manager and Shut That Bitch Down. Like a boss.MrMister said:
EDIT: IT'S TRUE. Now my tendency to edit a post fifteen times before I move on will be known to everyone. D:
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
will any gaffers load their games online? like YT or something?
throwawayname
Member
I hate anti-mage :/
Tried Pudge, but only in a practice game. I think from now on I'm only going to play heroes I know in matchmaking, trying new ones in practice only until I at least feel somewhat comfortable with them.
I didn't do so hot with Pudge. The Meat Hook did not work the way I expected at all. I assumed you targeted it at a Hero or Creep and it pulled them in, ignoring anything in between. Instead it actually pulls the first thing the hook hits, be it a friendly creep, friendly Hero, or anything else. Playing Pudge takes some planning then. The rest of his moves seem fairly straightforward, but you have to be careful not to overdo it with the W though.
I didn't do so hot with Pudge. The Meat Hook did not work the way I expected at all. I assumed you targeted it at a Hero or Creep and it pulled them in, ignoring anything in between. Instead it actually pulls the first thing the hook hits, be it a friendly creep, friendly Hero, or anything else. Playing Pudge takes some planning then. The rest of his moves seem fairly straightforward, but you have to be careful not to overdo it with the W though.
One thing I find funny about Dota is that as much as people like to tout it as the most hardcore game in the genre, it really lacks in the skill shot department.
I mean you have Pudge's meathook, Mirana's arrow, Clockwerk's reverse hook. Any others I'm missing? I remember thinking people were godlike being able to land hooks with Pudge, then when going to LoL like every other character has a skillshot... and it's no big deal being able to do them accurately.
I mean you have Pudge's meathook, Mirana's arrow, Clockwerk's reverse hook. Any others I'm missing? I remember thinking people were godlike being able to land hooks with Pudge, then when going to LoL like every other character has a skillshot... and it's no big deal being able to do them accurately.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
Ferrio said:
That depends what you consider a skill shot. I would say that a handful of the AoE stuns are skill shots in that timing on them is so important. For instance, Lina's stun is not targetted and the timing can be tough to get down. Not really considered a traditional skill shot, probably because it is AoE though.
Ikuu said:
Never been good with Pudge, like I said I used to be amazed at good pudges.. Used to be pretty damn awesome with clockwerks hook though.
Hylian7 said:
Added after I stopped playing, so ya not surprised I didn't catch his.
AbortedWalrusFetus said:
Ya guess it's technically one, pretty easy to land though.
Guess my point is that overall Dota's skills are pretty braindead easy to use. I mean look at luna or yunero. (Are there Any creeps around? No- ULT!!! Yes- Don't Ult!)
Togglesworlh
Banned
Lion's stun.Ferrio said:
Do targeted AoE's count? In my mind, they do.
There's also the things that depend on position, like Dazzle's heal, which only requires you to click on a friendly unit, will damage any adjacent enemies. I think Omniknight's is similar.
Togglesworlh
Banned
I've had Lion's stun miss, between me and another hero. Maybe he targeted a creep accidentally.
But again, positioning helps because he'll stun everyone in a line between him and the target.
Weaver's Sukuchi requires him to actually run through targets to damage them.
Bat Rider in general, except his ult, which is still pretty skill-dependent once he actually lassos someone.
Windrunner's Powershot. Shackle also depends on positioning because it's useless if there's nothing nearby on which to shackle them.
Jakiro. Sand King.
Nature's Prophet's tree ring is targeted, but also can be not targeted, and also depends heavily on positioning (whether or not you want to trap him with another hero, friendly or otherwise.
All of Clockwerk. With the exception of the ministuns, I guess, but that requires you to chase enemies around.
I don't know the game that well, though, so maybe I'm wrong.
But again, positioning helps because he'll stun everyone in a line between him and the target.
Weaver's Sukuchi requires him to actually run through targets to damage them.
Bat Rider in general, except his ult, which is still pretty skill-dependent once he actually lassos someone.
Windrunner's Powershot. Shackle also depends on positioning because it's useless if there's nothing nearby on which to shackle them.
Jakiro. Sand King.
Nature's Prophet's tree ring is targeted, but also can be not targeted, and also depends heavily on positioning (whether or not you want to trap him with another hero, friendly or otherwise.
All of Clockwerk. With the exception of the ministuns, I guess, but that requires you to chase enemies around.
I don't know the game that well, though, so maybe I'm wrong.
Togglesworlh said:
I think you might be stretching what are skillshots on everything except maybe windrunner. All those can be targetted/or huge aoe (though badly I guess if you're a moron), and running through people with weaver isn't really rocket science.
Anyways, just splitting hairs at this point. Like I said just something I realized after coming back to Dota 2. That overall dota's hero mechanics are pretty braindead easy to use. I mean you got stuff like Skeleton King who is 3 passives and one targetted stun... you can't get any simpler.
Togglesworlh
Banned
You're kidding, right? I just supplied multiple counter-examples, and all you can say is "You're stretching it."
WELP. I GUESS THAT'S THAT.
WELP. I GUESS THAT'S THAT.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Ooh, ooh.
Fucking Shadow Fiend. Earthshaker! Duhhhh Earthshaker.
Fucking Shadow Fiend. Earthshaker! Duhhhh Earthshaker.
Hylian7 said:
He's an easy character once you understand his agi/str morph. Someone can just tell you how to build him and you'll do alright. I mean compared to someone like pudge who's always going to have to be on his game to do well, and have actual practice with hook.
Togglesworlh said:
Okay good calls there.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Let's not forget the heroes that require controlling multiple units. Chen, Enigma, Enchantress, etc. Or heroes that regularly take advantage of illusion runes.
Many skillshots have an auto-homing targeted component, like ES and Lion's stun. They can be used a targeted skill (usually with slightly reduced range), or as a pure skill shot, which lets you pull of some things like hitting through trees or blocking.
And the term "skillshot" when taken out of context can be misleading. While DOTA does have far less skillshots than LoL, the omnipresent problem of mana management means missing a single shot can can be the difference between a successful fight/gank and a failed one. Pudge, without clarities/bottle has enough mana to spend on all of two hooks from 1 to 6. And no mana to use his ult if he does spend it on hooks. Blitz, in comparison, can use his rocket grab at least a 4-5 times before level 6 without items, masteries or runes. On the other hand, Pudge landing a hook early game is almost a guaranteed kill, whereas Blitz can't really do anything by himself without backup and summoner spells.
The pervasiveness of skillshots in LoL is compensated for by significantly lowering resource constraints (and this is just talking about champs that use mana, don't even get me started on champs like ken, lee sin, morde or rumble)
And the term "skillshot" when taken out of context can be misleading. While DOTA does have far less skillshots than LoL, the omnipresent problem of mana management means missing a single shot can can be the difference between a successful fight/gank and a failed one. Pudge, without clarities/bottle has enough mana to spend on all of two hooks from 1 to 6. And no mana to use his ult if he does spend it on hooks. Blitz, in comparison, can use his rocket grab at least a 4-5 times before level 6 without items, masteries or runes. On the other hand, Pudge landing a hook early game is almost a guaranteed kill, whereas Blitz can't really do anything by himself without backup and summoner spells.
The pervasiveness of skillshots in LoL is compensated for by significantly lowering resource constraints (and this is just talking about champs that use mana, don't even get me started on champs like ken, lee sin, morde or rumble)
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
The first match of the Defense tournament was pretty bad. it was like 29-4 deaths or so.
I don't think people give denying enough credit... It adds a lot of complexity to the laning phase and allows skilled players to control a lane over lesser-skilled players. Feigning denies/last hits, feigning harass, there's a ton of stuff you can do to confuse or play mind games with your opponent. Removing denying as LoL did makes sitting under the tower a viable strategy when you can be out-harassed by your opponent as the lane will always push itself towards it.
There's also the activated items, which I believe dota has scores of over LoL.
Then the expense of the items, higher level cap, and the fact that you lose gold on death, make ganking almost crucial to securing a win. In LoL, you can gank an enemy carry to maybe set them back in levels for the mid game, but in reality if the game goes on long enough, they'll always hit the level cap and get enough gold to buy their items and have the potential to carry anyways.
I don't think skill-shots are the "be all end all" of what makes a dota game "hardcore".
There's also the activated items, which I believe dota has scores of over LoL.
Then the expense of the items, higher level cap, and the fact that you lose gold on death, make ganking almost crucial to securing a win. In LoL, you can gank an enemy carry to maybe set them back in levels for the mid game, but in reality if the game goes on long enough, they'll always hit the level cap and get enough gold to buy their items and have the potential to carry anyways.
I don't think skill-shots are the "be all end all" of what makes a dota game "hardcore".
Woah, woah, woah. Lion's stun takes SKILL! If you're targeting a unit you won't hit at maximum range. If you want to do that you'd have to click on the ground and potentially miss, but is worth the risk because you at least have the chance to stun someone you're chasing before he jukes you in the fogofwar.
Skills are balanced with respect to damage, mana cost, hero manapool/int gain, cooldown speed, targeted/aoe, utility, CC/stun duration, cast time (even "instant cast/non-channeling" spells may have animation delays before and after). Some heroes have easier-to hit spells but generally the most damaging or useful ones involve some element of risk in casting them.
Meepo is a great example, and watching great players use him is a real treat. Morphling's stun knocks back and can potentially save an enemy hero from your team if used incorrectly.
There are a lot of examples people can cite but generally landing the skill is just one piece of the puzzle: timing and positioning are equally important in order to maximize the damage dealt by individuals or groups of heroes.
Skills are balanced with respect to damage, mana cost, hero manapool/int gain, cooldown speed, targeted/aoe, utility, CC/stun duration, cast time (even "instant cast/non-channeling" spells may have animation delays before and after). Some heroes have easier-to hit spells but generally the most damaging or useful ones involve some element of risk in casting them.
Meepo is a great example, and watching great players use him is a real treat. Morphling's stun knocks back and can potentially save an enemy hero from your team if used incorrectly.
There are a lot of examples people can cite but generally landing the skill is just one piece of the puzzle: timing and positioning are equally important in order to maximize the damage dealt by individuals or groups of heroes.
Hylian7 said:
Ya, 11 non consumable items currently have activated effects.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Active_Ability_Items
Not many or as game changing as the ones in dota.
Togglesworlh
Banned
There are some. Yoomu's Ghostblade is the only I can think of off the top of my head, but I know there are more.Hylian7 said:
But yeah items in Dota are just way more interesting in general.
Also part of the problem with LoL is most of the item builds are pretty close to identical across different champions of the same type. In Dota, that's not even remotely true, at least from what I've seen.
Yeah there's a handful, but they usually aren't great. Ghostblade is used a lot, Gunblades slow is nice and Executioner's calling has its uses, but mostly people don't use the activations, they buy items for stats. In my opinion, banshee's veil should be an activated shield... that'd make things a ton more interesting.Hylian7 said:
PuppetYuber
Banned
Why do you need skill shot department in a team base game. This is not 1v1 TDM lol. Player should focus on proper positioning of your hero, targeting, and mana management for team fights / ganking phase and even during laning phase. Difference between a good player and a bad player can be as minimal as casting an extra stun in team fight.
Even games like bloodline champion, an arena based PVP, lacks skill shot department.
Even games like bloodline champion, an arena based PVP, lacks skill shot department.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Because skillshots are more fun.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
next tournament game is streaming right now on joindota
Leshrac, Kunkka, Shadow Shaman (ward trapping) also have pretty good examples of skillshots.
Its EASY to multitask his ult as an escape mechanism while fighting using your other skills?
I think you're downplaying the skill component of a lot of spells, even ones that can be targeted. There are a ton of skills that have a timing or positioning component that many LOL skills don't have.
Lion players need to be able to aim their stuns to hit as many people as possible at its max range if needed, not just one targeted hit. ES needs to stun people on the correct side of the fissure, and get a good block as well as set up further stuns from him. Clockwerk players need to hit rockets from across the map in the fog of war. Etc, etc I could list more examples but its just silly.
Ferrio said:
Its EASY to multitask his ult as an escape mechanism while fighting using your other skills?
I think you're downplaying the skill component of a lot of spells, even ones that can be targeted. There are a ton of skills that have a timing or positioning component that many LOL skills don't have.
Lion players need to be able to aim their stuns to hit as many people as possible at its max range if needed, not just one targeted hit. ES needs to stun people on the correct side of the fissure, and get a good block as well as set up further stuns from him. Clockwerk players need to hit rockets from across the map in the fog of war. Etc, etc I could list more examples but its just silly.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Another thing worth noting is that skillshots in LoL are more often than not much shorter in range (and thus easier to hit) than skillshots in Dota.
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