Togglesworlh
Banned
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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Lactose_Intolerant
Member
He's not begging for a key, he's telling people to use the key begging thread for his keys. I don't see a problem with that.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Me neither, but it says "anything".
PuppetYuber
Banned
Dragon Knight has a higher skill cap than Pudge to master lol.
He has low mana so you cant spam his fire breath, his stun is melee range, his Dragon form attack at the slowest speed without any items whereas for Pudge has the longest single target spell, and does true damage?
He has low mana so you cant spam his fire breath, his stun is melee range, his Dragon form attack at the slowest speed without any items whereas for Pudge has the longest single target spell, and does true damage?
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Complex Shadow said:
I'm going to stream when I play with GAF, at twitch.tv/procarbine, so there will be vods there.
PuppetYuber said:
DK doesn't have a higher skill cap than Pudge. That's ridiculous.
>Plenty of armor and hp regen from passive
>Longest level1 stun in the game
>Giant cone-of-effect fire breath spell
>Soul ring solves all mana issues
>Dragon Form is the ultimate steroid spell, giving you aoe damage and slow and +ms
Yeah, come on Puber. At least flesh out your argument more. It is so much more easier to "fail" playing Pudge and a new player on that hero will be exposed immediately, unlike with DK. However, for mid-tier to hardcore levels of play, there will be higher expectations for the DK on the team since he is expected to carry the game past the 30 minute mark or at least be overfarmed in respect to the opposite team. If Pudge can basically not feed or at least control his lane then he'd have done his job.
Ferrio said:
i dont consider invoker braindead easy. Also, you want to use jugg's ult when you have no allies around and the fleeing hero is one hit away and you think are can survive after that. Also, I guess you havent seen that luna landing all ult beams on a hero near creeps
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
If you really think that dota's skills are braindead easy, you don't understand the game or any of it's subtleties.
Reverie was one of the few support items in the game with an Active (Randuins had one too, but I never really made use of it) ,was nice to give everyone a speed boost. Only item I wish Dota had (Does it have an item that gives everyone near by a speed boost?)vesp said:
There are lots of people in the GAF chat channel on. I'm thinking we might want to get a practice match going. I made a lobby, and the password is that word that appears under the GAF logo in all lower case letters. Add me on Steam at Hylian7.
Game name is "NeoGAF". To get to it, hit "Practice" and join us.
Game name is "NeoGAF". To get to it, hit "Practice" and join us.
Procarbine said:
Think I played it enough I understand the game. I'm going to stand by that the *majority* of the heros themselves are easy as hell in execution. It's the other elements of the game that are challenging... but the heroes themselves, no.
x3r0123 said:
Positioned so that there are no minions in range, hence my original "Any creeps around?". Otherwise it's up to the random number goddess.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Most of the champions in LoL are similarly easy, so I'm not sure what your point is.
How long does the active last? Reverie only lasted 3 seconds, but gave a 40% boost, so it would be a good way to gain a lot of ground, or to get people out of trouble/catch up in a pinch. But LoL's map is smaller.Archie said:
Personally, it feels like more characters in Dota have Skill shots, or have abilities that have some odd stipulations. It is fun to see how Riot adapted Dota skills into LoL skills, or just make comparisons.
Also, I really do like the idea of flat cooldown and non-scaling spells, the cooldown makes it so its eaiser to have powerful skills (You don't have to balance the skill at both the stock cooldown, 40% cooldown reduction, and anything in between), the non-scaling spells just puts so much more emphasis on Auto Attacks. In late game LoL, you simply nuke everyone to death, unless you are an Auto attack character, then you just hit for 500 damage every strike.
Also, one thing no one seems to notice/care that is diffrent from LoL and Dota that surprised me a bit, is the lack of every character having a single built in Passive Abilities that can't be leveled. Though in LoL, I would say 75% of the passive abilities were just tacked on, and not really useful.
MurkyZebra2417
Member
Played 3 games... well it's dota but now in a game completly built around it from the beginning. I like it.
What shocked me though is the amount of kiddies/flamers that are already in the beta. I REALLY hope Valve finds a good way to deal with them.
What shocked me though is the amount of kiddies/flamers that are already in the beta. I REALLY hope Valve finds a good way to deal with them.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Ferrio said:
The how do you define hard? Just because you can click to land a stun with lion doesn't make it at all easy. Casting the spell ideally requires clicking on the ground to utilize its max range, you have to know the speed of the spell to hit it, and to really play the hero well, you need to catch more than one target in the stun.
The same goes for sand king.
The same thing goes for leshrac and lina as well, but they have huge delay on their stuns which require good timing and prediction.
Just because you can target something with a skill and hit it doesn't make it easy, or the hero easy. You need to maximize the effectiveness of every cast.
PuppetYuber
Banned
Wait, WTF kagete, you just said as long as Pudge doesnt feed he has done his job, whereas DK requires to farm for 30 minutes. How is that not higher skill cap?
All these arguments are like saying you need to press buttons in SF4/MVC3 to do well, but I dont see any of you guys participating in EVO
All these arguments are like saying you need to press buttons in SF4/MVC3 to do well, but I dont see any of you guys participating in EVO
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Ferrio said:
Does that make every competitive game ever made easy?
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Ferrio said:
So you're saying you've been arguing a moot point this entire time?
Procarbine said:
No because I haven't been arguing that the game isn't competitive or difficult to master. I've just been stating than on average the dota character's skills sets by themselves are simple. That's not always the case as been stated. There's odd ones like Invoker where you have to remember all the orb combos, and which spell is good for which case. But on the whole you got stuff like zeus, axe, or razor who pale in difficulty in mastering compared to invoker/pudge etc.
Telosfortelos
Advocate for the People
With how slow matchmaking is, would I be correct in assuming it's matching individuals with groups or teams?
I'm not great at DOTA - I'm not suggesting I am - but I'm not terrible either, and I've consistently been at or near the top of my team in kill-to-deaths, farming, playing as a team, etc, and yet I'm only 1 win for 6 losses. Has this just been bad luck, or am I getting matched against groups?
I'm not great at DOTA - I'm not suggesting I am - but I'm not terrible either, and I've consistently been at or near the top of my team in kill-to-deaths, farming, playing as a team, etc, and yet I'm only 1 win for 6 losses. Has this just been bad luck, or am I getting matched against groups?
PuppetYuber
Banned
It has nothing to do with the character in the fight game. It is the the PLAYERS that plays it LOL.
I dont play SF4, but I can say it is a super easy game cuz all I do is pressing buttons. See you @ EVO guys; bye Daigowhoeveryouare (This is how stupid you sound right now btw)
I dont play SF4, but I can say it is a super easy game cuz all I do is pressing buttons. See you @ EVO guys; bye Daigowhoeveryouare (This is how stupid you sound right now btw)
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Ferrio said:
You would know this because you've taken the time to master these heroes and know what it entails? You can't say mastering things are easy without having done it. I haven't mastered them, but I'm not saying it's easy. Just because Zues has targeted nukes and that's it doesn't mean getting in and out of fights alive while dealing that damage with a very low health pool/base mana pool is easy. Yeah, mastering invoker is harder, but that doesn't make other things easy.
Herp derp heroes like yunero exist, but they're the exception to the rule.
PuppetYuber said:
Kagete is wrong. A Pudge who doesn't feed and controls his lane hasn't done his job, he's only done a very small fraction of it. A Pudge who is, say, 3-0-2 after 20 minutes into the game and has only hung around his lane can barely by called a mastered Pudge. No, Pudge's real purpose is to completely decimate and control other lanes and prevent them from farming and leveling, allowing the rest of your team to dominate in map control and farm.
"You could say that for any ganker," but this is moreso true of Pudge who needs the valuable solo lane. A Pudge with good cs and low kills is worthless come mid and endgame. And he isn't easy to play.
Meat Hook is a long range, powerful nuke -- but it's difficult to land consistently and is very taxing on Pudge's manapool. Not only that, but a truly good Pudge uses the very threat of a Meat Hook to control his opponents. Breath of Fire isn't a threat in the same way because it does not have ridiculous displacement and damage. A lot of people say that Pudge is useless when you have wards but that simply isn't true. Pudge's presence is more than enough, and landing hooks on people who see you is far from impossible, but it takes a lot more effort than running up and pressing FIRE BLAST BREATH OF DEATH.
Rot does damage to yourself. This seems pretty obvious, don't use Rot for no reason, but versus Dragon Knight's free armor and regen, it takes a lot more smart thinking to use. Plus the ability to self-deny is great and takes at least some timing.
How many Pudges have you seen that sit in the forest for minutes at a time, waiting for an opportunity to land a hook? That's what a bad Pudge does. A good Pudge is always on the move, always keeping his enemy on their toes, unaware of where the hook might come from. Across the river? In our jungle? Behind our creep wave? Behind our tower? Across a chasm? Good Pudges don't hook from the same place repeatedly. It's too predictable.
A truly awesome Pudge takes so much more effort to play than a ton of the heroes in the game. DK is a farm and carry hero with some mild nuking ability, free aoe steroids, free armor, free regen, and a fantastic (albeit melee) stun. Not even comparable.
Procarbine said:
I used to play ever single hero in the game atleast decently (played -ar games). Can I say I've mastered them, no since that'd be quite arrogant of me to claim. I can say that becoming competant with say Zeus is easy.
Also staying alive is less about knowing how to play zeus, and more knowing what your opponents are capable of. Which again applies to any character you play.
PuppetYuber
Banned
I guess u dont play dragon knight mid go figures. I still dont understand the argument "farmer has low/no skill cap". You have never lost a game where AM/SPEC/DK farmed nothing? I definitely have lost, frequently actually, game with a farmed/fed Pudge.
Problem with Pudge is that, he only needs to rely on hook, and everything else follow naturally, rot and ult? There is nothing special about hook, it has long range, it doesn't curve etc. It has the highest strength gain in game, so you can man up with any heroes early game. Mana problem? Soul Ring / Bottle problem solve?
Who is more likely to get a kill with a Haste / Invisibility rune? Rot = free slow, ult = free disable
A good player gets early kills even without items, most ppl that plays DK max passive and just sit in lane for 30 minutes and proceed to lose game.
Problem with Pudge is that, he only needs to rely on hook, and everything else follow naturally, rot and ult? There is nothing special about hook, it has long range, it doesn't curve etc. It has the highest strength gain in game, so you can man up with any heroes early game. Mana problem? Soul Ring / Bottle problem solve?
Who is more likely to get a kill with a Haste / Invisibility rune? Rot = free slow, ult = free disable
A good player gets early kills even without items, most ppl that plays DK max passive and just sit in lane for 30 minutes and proceed to lose game.
PuppetYuber said:
What does the first thing have to do with Pudge? Pudge's job is to protect the carry and stop the enemy carry from farming. That's on the farmer to do his farming, not Pudge. I never said that farmers have no skill cap, I said that Pudge has a much higher one than farmers, and I think most everyone will agree with that because it's simply OBVIOUS.
There is a lot special with hook. I just outlined some of it for you. You're making it seem that hook is just as braindead to use as Breath of Fire. It isn't.
Of course a good player gets early kills without items, I never said they didn't. Where are you pulling all of this from.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Alright boys... moment of truth!
New, Familiar or Experienced?
I am very familiar with DOTA but I've always sucked at it... :/
New, Familiar or Experienced?
I am very familiar with DOTA but I've always sucked at it... :/
Complistic
Member
How do I invite friends to a lobby?
PuppetYuber said:
Derp. Pudge requires hitting hooks (which requires a lot of mana), and ganking the other team to be successful. No true damage either. If he can't create a snowball effect, then he's a walking skill shot, and will get rolled all game.
Dragon Knight requires none of that. He's like any other melee character. If he requires farm to be king shit, so does anti mage, so does void, so does any carry.
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