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[Rutger]

Exactly. Especially for a game with esports aspirations, it'd be unwise to stick with new editions & cut people off from being competitive.

I'm not necessarily saying "do Fight Money", but instead avoid locking modes & balance changes behind paywalls and make them free for everyone. ASW & Bandai Namco can still make their profits off of the DLC characters.

When has a playerbase been split by a revision?

It sure as hell hasn't happened in any meaningful way to an Arcsys game.

Guilty Gear Xrd going into Revelator for starters. The balance changes were locked behind the re-release, so nobody with Sign could get the latest balance changes or modes without having to buy Revelator. While yes, Rev 2 is a step in the right direction, ASW can improve further.

Rev was too big of an update to be simply a patch. Beyond the new characters, it added new system mechanics, revised movesets, new stages and all old ones changed, new music beyond just the new character themes, a fully fleshed out sequel to the story in Sign, greatly improved netplay lobbies. It is a sequel, not just some small changes and new characters thrown into Sign.

How does it get better than Rev 2 though? They don't have Sony paying them so they can give away things like characters and story for free. The free to play model isn't going to work here unless they have something to make up for the money they're not making on all that hard work.

 

[Slaythe]

Earning Fight Money isn't as hard as you think, especially if you log on at least once a week. There's even a whole thread about it.

Either way, my argument was for not doing Revelator/Rev 2 paid editions and instead giving everyone the balance changes/QoL fixes/new modes/etc. free of charge while having us pay for the characters & stages. This way nobody gets left behind competitively.

Ok first of all, the weekly log in gives you a shitty amount, and then what do you make of colors, stages, costumes, etc... ?

It's ignoring the fact that there's a season 2, and that there are a lot of payed only DLC.

It's just bad. If you buy the season pass you still don't get all the so called "cosmetics". So if you got characters with FM getting the season pass is counter productive.

I hate it.

 

[Moaradin]

Rev was too big of an update to be simply a patch. Beyond the new characters, it added new system mechanics, revised movesets, new stages and all old ones changed, new music beyond just the new character themes, a fully fleshed out sequel to the story in Sign, greatly improved netplay lobbies. It is a sequel, not just some small changes and new characters thrown into Sign.

SFV has done literally all of those things through regular content updates for free

 

[Slaythe]

SFV has done literally all of those things through regular content updates for free

 

[Moaradin]

Nice rebuttal?

 

[Glitter and Gold]

Which one?

SFV? They give you 5K FM every week with some nothing challenge that always requires you to fight one round in VS mode on a specific stage and do some stage gimmick. You can make another 1500 on stuff that may take 10-60 minutes. Combo trials, storymode and easy/normal survival net you a ton of FM. Each character basically pays for more than half the next character on like 30 minutes of gameplay a week.

XRD? Well, you needed to buy XRD, Rev and now the Rev2 update. All that is like $100 at day 1 retail cost. It's way more expensive to be a Guilty Gear player than a Street Fighter player unless you're hung up on premium costumes or something.

Day 1 costs for SFV would be 120 though. 60 base + 30 S1 + 30 S2.

Xrd's would be 140. 60 + 60 + 20.

That's only 20 dollars more for actual new versions over more years. (140 since 2014 vs 120 since 2016)

SFV has done literally all of those things through regular content updates for free

It hasn't added any new system mechanics since launch and stages are all premium content. It's had premium stages since day 1 even.

 

[Sheroking]

Day 1 costs for SFV would be 120 though. 60 base + 30 S1 + 30 S2.

The relevant DLC in Season 1 and 2 is easily obtained without spending a cent. You have no other alternative but to buy XRDs title updates.

I haven't purchased either Season Pass and have all the characters and the stages I want.

 

[lucebuce12]

It hasn't added any new system mechanics since launch and stages are all premium content. It's had premium stages since day 1 even.

There are only 2 premium stages and it didn't have any premium stage day 1.

Both of them are part of the CPT bundles (can be bought separately) but can't be bought with FM.

ALL OTHER stages however, can be bought with FM.

 

[Rutger]

SFV has done literally all of those things through regular content updates for free

And Sony pays for it. Free for the player, but they still make money off their work.

Also, has SFV seen any system mechanic changes? Something like Burst Overdrive in Rev might seem small, but it's still a change in how a core mechanic works so it's difficult to tell how easy it would be to patch such a thing in. And I know SFV hasn't seen changes on the level of the core BB games(so, not the Extend games), which are functionally very different to the point that it's silly to even call them the same game.

 

[Moaradin]

It hasn't added any new system mechanics since launch and stages are all premium content. It's had premium stages since day 1 even.

All stages besides a couple can be bought with fight money, and Capcom has promised that all gameplay related stuff will be free. The game added improved lobbies, netcode and matchmaking, an actual story mode, significant balance changes with actual new moves for characters, tons of stages, etc. without making a new version of the game.

 

[voodoopanda]

I think the SF5 thing is more psychological due to people just disliking the game in general than the actual DLC practices. Like if you went to some restaurant and the food was really terrible and they're like "have some more for free!" Having more horrible food is worse than paying for it. If you already dislike SF5, grinding to get another character or stage is a similar situation.

I'm totally expecting to pay real money to get DLC characters in Dragon Ball FighterZ, and I'll be completely fine with it if the game is good and the characters are ones I'm interested in. If there was some option where if I did the single player content or grinded online, I'd be able to get some of that content for free, that'd be even better. The SF5 system is actually pretty nice, if the content it was producing was stuff you'd be interested in.

 

[Sheroking]

I think the SF5 thing is more psychological due to people just disliking the game in general than the actual DLC practices. Like if you went to some restaurant and the food was really terrible and they're like "have some more for free!" Having more horrible food is worse than paying for it. If you already dislike SF5, grinding to get another character or stage is a similar situation.

I'm totally expecting to pay real money to get DLC characters in Dragon Ball FighterZ, and I'll be completely fine with it if the game is good and the characters are ones I'm interested in. If there was some option where if I did the single player content or grinded online, I'd be able to get some of that content for free, that'd be even better.

It's definitely a runaway narrative where SFV is concerned.

Point is: ArcSys has been worse about this stuff and I hope Rev2 is them stepping into a more reasonable direction.

 

[AESplusF]

SFV has done literally all of those things through regular content updates for free

And at a fourth of the quality

 

[Moaradin]

And at a fourth of the quality

Neither here nor there

 

[Neoxon]

Logistically speaking, there aren't really any major current esports that split updates between paywalls. Plus it's not like Bamco & ASW would make stuff at a loss by giving the system changes for free, they'd still be getting profits from the DLC characters.

 

[Slaythe]

All stages besides a couple can be bought with fight money, and Capcom has promised that all gameplay related stuff will be free. The game added improved lobbies, netcode and matchmaking, an actual story mode, significant balance changes with actual new moves for characters, tons of stages, etc. without making a new version of the game.

The game launched with awful netcode, shit lobbies, almost no single player content, no tutorial, no story mode. So let's not pretend like they were generous by adding for free when it launched without the bare minimum that other games provide.

As for stages, "you can buy them with FM !", well, if you also try to get some characters with FM, I seriously doubt you can get what you want this way.

Maybe if you're cheating on PC with the survival but besides that... :/

 

[Glitter and Gold]

All stages besides a couple can be bought with fight money, and Capcom has promised that all gameplay related stuff will be free.,

"Can be bought with fight money" is not providing that content for free though. You don't get it unless you spend your money or spend your time.

The game added improved lobbies, netcode and matchmaking, an actual story mode

Let's not get it twisted. Most of this stuff was delivering on promised features in the base package that they just failed to ship at launch due to the game being rushed out the door. It's not like the netcode went from "good" to "better". It improved from straight up not working on day 1

significant balance changes with actual new moves for characters, tons of stages, etc. without making a new version of the game.

The balance patches aren't any different from free patches provided in other games though and cmon bro the there was like 2-3 "actual new moves" added in S2.5. I think comparing them in quality or quantity to something you'd get in a paid revision, even of an old SF game like SSF4, is disingenuous.

 

[vDaedalus]

And at a fourth of the quality

Neither here nor there

This goes here.

 

[patchday]

Yeah SFV gets shat on all the time but yet I think buying DLC content for free is pretty cool and it felt like I did nothing to earn them. I just played through the content like normal

Ask & you shall receive.

Bookmarking to educate others LOL

 

[Rutger]

All stages besides a couple can be bought with fight money, and Capcom has promised that all gameplay related stuff will be free. The game added improved lobbies, netcode and matchmaking, an actual story mode, significant balance changes with actual new moves for characters, tons of stages, etc. without making a new version of the game.

It should be noted that when I said improved netcode lobbies, that it went from the barebones and clunky Sign lobbies that looked like this to fleshed out interactive arcades with customizable 3D character avatars. I don't believe SFV has done something like that.

Logistically speaking, there aren't really any major current esports that split updates between paywalls. Plus it's not like Bamco & ASW would make stuff at a loss by giving the system changes for free, they'd still be getting profits from the DLC characters.

I wonder how much more the DLC characters would have to cost to make up for the fact that many would only buy the ones they care about? People already don't like that the DLC characters are typically $8, and without someone like Sony to actually make up for the cost of everything else I just can't imagine how that would be practical.

 

[Moaradin]

The game launched with awful netcode, shit lobbies, almost no single player content, no tutorial, no story mode. So let's not pretend like they were generous by adding for free when it launched without the bare minimum that other games provide.

As for stages, "you can buy them with FM !", well, if you also try to get some characters with FM, I seriously doubt you can get what you want this way.

Maybe if you're cheating on PC with the survival but besides that... :/

I still don't get what your argument against FM is. The alternative is not getting that shit for free, it's being forced to pay real money for it like most fighting games. You can still do exactly that if you can't be bothered, but having the alternative to get a lot of that for free is only a good thing.

I bought the season pass and just spend all my free FM on stages and costumes. I've bought every stage and alternative stage they've released so far, and I still have almost a million FM left over. That's enough to buy another 10 characters.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

The game added improved lobbies, netcode and matchmaking

netcode?

 

[Moaradin]

netcode?

It has improved since release, yes. It still has problems but it's still significantly better than the netcode in the Guilty Gear games.

 

[AESplusF]

It has improved since release, yes. It still has problems but it's still significantly better than the netcode in the Guilty Gear games.

Says who?

 

[Neoxon]

It has improved since release, yes. It still has problems but it's still significantly better than the netcode in the Guilty Gear games.

Hopefully the fact that ASW is doing a beta is a sign that they'll take the netcode more seriously in DBFZ.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

It has improved since release, yes. It still has problems but it's still significantly better than the netcode in the Guilty Gear games.

It literally did not work on release

 

[Moaradin]

Says who?

Rollback netcode is almost always better than input delay based netcode

I do have hopes that ASW is taking online a little more seriously for this game though. Having a beta this early is a good sign.

 

[patchday]

man they need to release footage of Piccolo/Kril to give us something to talk bout ;(

 

[Neoxon]

man they need to release footage of Piccolo/Kril to give us something to talk bout ;(

Hopefully the footage drops before the beta sign-ups happen.

 

[SquirrelSoup]

Rollback netcode is almost always better than input delay based netcode

Sure, but to this day i have friends that i can play in every fighting game except SF5. I suppose having an unplayable connection is strictly speaking an improvement over the launch day no connection at all, but i'm still not happy with it. The SF5 netcode is trash and no game should aspire to it.

As to the DLC model, i like some parts of it. Getting characters for time instead of for money is nice. The completely preposterous prices for stages and costumes aren't so much. They're also incredibly stingy with those, and with characters, compared to basically every other fighting game. Overall i kinda hate it, and hoping for another company to take the good parts but not the bad parts seems overly optimistic.

---
It's hard to predict what this game will do with DLC. Will it be the ASW model or the Bandai Namco model.. ?

 

[Glitter and Gold]

---
It's hard to predict what this game will do with DLC. Will it be the ASW model or the Bandai Namco model.. ?

My guess is that the game will feature some sort of single player or online modes that allows ASW to produce DLC content in the volume that Bamco usually does for their games. The producer already said they're taking a unique approach to the game's story mode like Xenoverse did.

 

[Slaythe]

They only said that because their roster is never gonna be enough to have a "classic" story mode lol, so of course they had to make up a new story.

As for DLC, expect something new for Arc. I'm sure it will receive support long after launch, so I'd guess characters and costumes. If it gets new story it will be for the sequel in 2020+.

I do believe we'll get a big "free update" with rebalance tweaks to systems etc... a year after launch...

Outside of "preorders" stuff, you can expect 0 characters for free.

And to be honest I don't care :/ . This is my dream game, if they need money to keep up the quality and give us characters that didn't make the cut, I'm not gonna start whining about it.

If the base content is decent, I'll support this, and triple dip etc...

 

[Doctrine Dark]

Yeah, I'm just glad this game exists.

I don't really care how they go about DLC. I just wanna play the game.

 

[SquirrelSoup]

After today i care about DLC because i want to suplex fools with Cauli, and i'm doubtful she'll make it in the base roster. =)

 

[Menitta]

I don't think Arc has handled DLC well prior to Rev 2 so I have little faith.

I can't wait for voice packs.

Spoiler

I'm gonna buy the Vegeta one so I shouldn't really say anything...

 

[Fandangox]

If there's voice packs and Beerus is one is he gonna get everyone's name wrong.

 

[Spinosaurus]

If there's voice packs and Beerus is one is he gonna get everyone's name wrong.

If he doesn't do that when he tags out as well they messed up.

I think...that's a thing in this game, right? Characters tagging out while calling the one coming in like in Marvel?

 

[Fandangox]

If he doesn't do that when he tags out as well they messed up.

I think...that's a thing in this game, right? Characters tagging out while calling the one coming in like in Marvel?

I think an interview confirmed it yeah.

 

[A-V-B]

Can you imagine DBZA voice packs

 

[Menitta]

Can you imagine DBZA voice packs

Ooooh man that'd be the best! Give me Takahata's Cell and LK's Frieza voice packs!

 

[Numb]

Can you imagine DBZA voice packs

Didn't Xenoverse have them
And with how much ASW loves voice dlc..

 

[Neoxon]

Can you imagine DBZA voice packs

Toei would probably shoot that down hard.

 

[Balfour]

Its possible to have their voices in there like Xenoverse, but I think the developers can't actually promote it and pretty much TFS has to do it for free. Like the only way we knew they were in there is because TFS said something

edited because I dont wanna derail

 

[Eylos]

About abridged, i would be pissed if there's 2 dubs for english, afaik only japanese and english dub are confirmed so far, after they confirm the dubs for other languages that would be ok though.

 

[Zubz]

Didn't Xenoverse have them
And with how much ASW loves voice dlc..

They had a couple of the VA's use their voices for create-a-character, but not for the actual characters those voices are usually used for.

I'd love it if ASW would bridge the gap between Toei & TFS, since their VA's are superior for some characters in my eyes (In fact, almost every character really, except Beerus & Whis for their Super shorts, & their Frieza merely ties with the current English voice & Japanese voice. Special shout-outs to TFS' Androids, whose official English VA's I have completely forgotten about other than remembering I don't like them.).

But I doubt ASW could pull it off, even with their hot streak of luck with licensing. Toei got uppity about a poster they were selling at a con, leading to an IRL take-down strike that Lanipator had to apologize for on-camera after joking about it.

About abridged, i would be pissed if there's 2 dubs for english, afaik only japanese and english dub are confirmed so far, after they confirm the dubs for other languages that would be ok though.

Real talk, I'd also love a Latin America dub option.

 

[Balfour]

neutral Spanish dubs are always a good time

 

[Mr. Smiley]

Latin America Dragon Ball is legit. Would pay extra for that.

 

[MiguelMexMIstery]

Please let there be a LA dub (I think the recent Naruto games and a Caballeros del Zodiaco game had a LA dub?)

I don't want to hear that Freezer voice from Budokai/BT/other games shivers

 

[rmanthorp]

Alternate costumes are kinda out of the question with how ASW does modeling for frames in the game right? Seems like it would would require a total re-do of animations?

 

[CommandThrower]

Can you imagine DBZA voice packs

I'd be down for that if the DBZA voice actors were reciting the in-game dialogue, since I think they're great voice actors


If we got the DBZA memes and jokes instead, then I am not down.