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Dragon Ball Super English Dub Thread

Lesson time.
Dragon Ball is owned by a combination of Toei, Shueisha, Bird Studio, Bandai and Fuji TV, all parties have a say. Early numbers for F and it's merchandise were really big and the production committee for the movie decided they wanted a new TV series to sell merch. Buu Kai was ending in July of that year so presumably it was decided that was when the new show would start, one problem, July was only a few months away. The earliest production material I can find is expression sheets for characters dated March 30th, 2015, which lines up pretty well with when the F merch started coming out. At best the series had 4 months (possibly only 3) from start of preproduction to airing, which is less than half of what a show should have. Keep in mind this isn't all Toei's fault, as mentioned above they aren't the sole controllers of the IP, Toei isn't dumb and most of their shows have pretty solid production schedules, it was most likely decided by the others that Super would start in July and Toei had to comply.

Toei doesn't cheap out on Super's animation, they actually spend a lot on the show. Episodes almost always have 2 or more animation supervisors, which is expensive, it's not uncommon to see assistant supervisors on episodes that aren't huge, they spend a lot on 2nd key animators and they take every key animator they can get. Super is probably Toei's most expensive show, the issues come down to the small amount of time the staff has to do their jobs as well as the fairly small core staff. Here's something many don't seem to know about the anime industry, outside of the more slave labor like studios, if an animator doesn't want to work on a project they won't, and this is especially true for freelancers. Super has traditionally be an unappealing project to work on due to the short deadlines caused by the show's production, so many animators just don't touch the show, or show up once and never come back, and this isn't even bringing up the huge shortage of animators in the industry right now. Money doesn't mean better animation.

Often times people say Super should just be given to a different studio, well that wouldn't fix the production issues the show faces and unless it was given to a studio that literally works their staff to death it probably wouldn't make any difference to the quality of the show. Fun fact about Toei animation, they are the only anime studio in Japan that has a union, they also pay animators based on salary instead of per cut of animation. Toei treats their staff well.
Also fun fact, the head of Toei's animator's union works on every single odd numbered episode of Super.

Another thing people say is that they should just put the show on a short hiatus to fix the problems. That'd be great, if they could do it. Super is making A LOT of money, I doubt Fuji TV or Bandai would be okay with the show going off air for 2-3 months, same goes for the sponsors. Ultimately it's up to Toei to fix Super's production on their own while the show is still running, which is no easy task.

I've spoken a lot about animation, but keep in mind that Super's production problems have been on all fronts, not just animation. Preproduction, planning, writing, storyboarding and post have all be traditionally rushed on Super. Whenever Super can reuse production materials they do, for instance most of the cast is using character design sheets from Battle of Gods and Resurrection F with a couple using their Z design sheets. Even things people wouldn't think about are recycled when they can, the interior design of Capsule Corp uses the design sheets from GT for example.

Super's production has been improving as it goes because they are able to do more preproduction with each arc, get scripts done earlier and they continue to grow the staff. The most recent arc is actually pretty consistent and we are seeing the staff grow fairly quickly. We somewhat recently learned that the scripts for episodes are given a normal 3 weeks to be written now and are written 4-6 months ahead of airing, which is pretty good on the upper side of that. On top of that animators have generally had more time to do their work thanks to there being more animators and animation supervisors generally have 8-10 weeks between their episodes as opposed to the old 5-7. Super still has a ways to go, but it's seen clear improvements to its production with every arc and that won't stop until things are totally normal. The work Toei has done and continues to do to fix Super's production is actually really impressive and the show's future looks pretty bright.
You live up to your tag. That was reallly informative an de enlightening.

I still don't get why they won't get the show a hiatus. This pace only works against it. There's a reason why the best shows are shorter. Avatar the Last Airbenser wouldn't be 1/10th as good if instead of 60 episodes in 3 years they made 150 in 3 years (i.e. one new episode for every week instead of seasons). It may be cultural differences about how tv works in Japan vs America that I don't understand but giving a show seasons work for a reason.
 

Nairume

Banned
You live yo to your tag. That was reallly informative an de enlightening.

I still don't get why they won't get the show a hiatus. This pace only works against it. There's a reason why the best shows are shorter. Avatar the Last Airbenser wouldn't be 1/10th as good if instead of 60 episodes in 3 years they made 150 in 3 years (i.e. one new episode for every week instead of seasons). It may be cultural differences about how tv works in Japan vs America that I don't understand but giving a show seasons work for a reason.
It's an issue of time slots. Giving up a timeslot to give a show some time off like that in Japan means risking losing that slot if the show comes back and something else is in its old spot.

This infamously hurt Code Geass, when they weren't able to resecure the show's old spot after it took a break, and they had to reconfigure a lot of the show to deal with the new time slot being earlier in the day limiting what they could do.
 
It's an issue of time slots. Giving up a timeslot to give a show some time off like that in Japan means risking losing that slot if the show comes back and something else is in its old spot.

This infamously hurt Code Geass, when they weren't able to resecure the show's old spot after it took a break, and they had to reconfigure a lot of the show to deal with the new time slot being earlier in the day limiting what they could do.
And in spite of the show's issues the Dragon Ball brand is doing really well, the ratings are high and the merch sales are massive. The cash flow hasn't been hurt by the show's issues so why would the production committee decide to take it of air?
The show's production has gotten to the point now where they might as well just keep doing it the way they have been, they're nudging up on normalcy now and the closer they get to that point the easier it will be to get staff, and the more staff they get the faster they can get to normalcy. I think it's likely the show's production starts to snowball next year and then by early 2019 the show's production will be normal, though most will probably think it will have hit that point long before then, many seem to think it's already there and that number will probably increase with the next arc.

And the reason shows like Dragon Ball, Naruto and One Piece don't go by seasons is because the production committee wants an advertisement for merchandise every week.
 

Ixion

Member
Much appreciation to ArchedThunder for all the detailed explanations regarding the production, both in this thread and the Sub thread.

It's a shame, since I've always liked comedic Dragon Ball more than serious Dragon Ball.

I love Dragon Ball humor, but here's the thing: nothing gives me more frequent and more powerful chills than watching DBZ (especially with the Faulconer soundtrack). It's basically porn for badassness. So that's the main reason I fell in love with DBZ, and that aspect should stay a core tenet of the franchise now, along with the comedy.

The english dub of Super so far has had very few of those moments, but a decent amount of laughs of course. From what I understand though, the badassness should be increased from here on out for the most part. The only issue is that the fighting is less violent and bloody than DBZ, so the ceiling is lower.
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
What the hell happened? This guy has some weird technique or good freezer is cheating. Champa's freak out was funny though the botamo fight was pretty uneventful. Imagine if that guy trained like goku he would be undtoppable. I hope vegeta finally gets a chance to beat a frieza type
 

Ixion

Member
I thought that was a pretty good episode. Frost trying to dupe Goku with his supposed "final forms" was funny (along with his ridiculous backstory), and Goku also gave him a pretty good beatdown.

I was afraid the Botomo fight was going to be dragged out given his ability, but Goku didn't take long to figure him out.
 

bman94

Member
The handling of Super is so fucking weird. The only legal way to watch this online is through Adult Swim. But you need a cable provider log in which my family doesn't have. We have cable just not the log-in account stuff.

The sub of course is available on Crunchyroll and Funimation but not the dub -_-. So if I want to watch the dub on demand I would have to buy the super expensive blu-ray sets.

I don't know at this point should I just wait it out for the rest of the dub and be forever behind or try and push through with the sub. I just REALLY don't feel like reading all that dialouge and having to deal with the Japanese voices.
 
The handling of Super is so fucking weird. The only legal way to watch this online is through Adult Swim. But you need a cable provider log in which my family doesn't have. We have cable just not the log-in account stuff.

The sub of course is available on Crunchyroll and Funimation but not the dub -_-. So if I want to watch the dub on demand I would have to buy the super expensive blu-ray sets.

I don't know at this point should I just wait it out for the rest of the dub and be forever behind or try and push through with the sub. I just REALLY don't feel like reading all that dialouge and having to deal with the Japanese voices.

It becomes second nature reading and watching.
 

Branson

Member
The handling of Super is so fucking weird. The only legal way to watch this online is through Adult Swim. But you need a cable provider log in which my family doesn't have. We have cable just not the log-in account stuff.

The sub of course is available on Crunchyroll and Funimation but not the dub -_-. So if I want to watch the dub on demand I would have to buy the super expensive blu-ray sets.

I don't know at this point should I just wait it out for the rest of the dub and be forever behind or try and push through with the sub. I just REALLY don't feel like reading all that dialouge and having to deal with the Japanese voices.

Im just waiting for the BR seasons to come out. I want to watch it in English now that they can do it well and accurately so I don't mind waiting a bit. The current sets are way too few episodes for the money. I spent the same amount on the Kai Final Chapters BR for twice the episodes.
 

LotusHD

Banned
The handling of Super is so fucking weird. The only legal way to watch this online is through Adult Swim. But you need a cable provider log in which my family doesn't have. We have cable just not the log-in account stuff.

The sub of course is available on Crunchyroll and Funimation but not the dub -_-. So if I want to watch the dub on demand I would have to buy the super expensive blu-ray sets.

I don't know at this point should I just wait it out for the rest of the dub and be forever behind or try and push through with the sub. I just REALLY don't feel like reading all that dialouge and having to deal with the Japanese voices.

I say just do it, you'll get used to it sooner or later.
 

Boke1879

Member
Yea they definitely mishandled the Super when it comes to localization.

By the time we even catch up to where the Sub is it'll be damn near 2019. It would be awesome if some weekends they showed two episodes.
 

cntr

Banned
Yeah, double Super would actually be a pretty good way to deal with the timeslot once Kai ends.

That said, personally, I'm not too bothered about catching up, since Dragon Ball isn't exactly a plot critical drama, it's just a fun and entertaining show you enjoy as you go along. And since the dub's a lot more fun than the sub, and hearing stuff in your native language is always going to be better than reading it off the bottom of the screen, I'd say it's the better experience in the long run.
 

Kevinroc

Member
I noticed in the Goku vs. Frost fight that Vegeta referred to him as "Goku," I was informed that this sometimes happens in the Dragon Ball dub.

How frequent is this? I've been watching the Super dub, but I've not noticed it before. I will fully admit to not paying as much attention to Funimation's other DB dubs.
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
I noticed in the Goku vs. Frost fight that Vegeta referred to him as "Goku," I was informed that this sometimes happens in the Dragon Ball dub.

How frequent is this? I've been watching the Super dub, but I've not noticed it before. I will fully admit to not paying as much attention to Funimation's other DB dubs.

I only remember him doing it once in dragon ball Z and that was in a filler arc when asking an alien for information about goku so it made sense since goku doesn't call himself kakarot.
 

cntr

Banned
catching up: That episode did look pretty jank, but I liked it. That form banter, yo.

I also really like the suggestion that Universe 7 is the evil one
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
Gotta be honest I was hoping to get more piccolo in this tournament. His intelligence could have worked well in a ring out situation. Oh well vegeta time
 

cntr

Banned
I like Frost 'cause even if he's evil, he's evil in a different way from Frieza.

...if you think about it, Frost is literally a real estate speculator.
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
I like Frost 'cause even if he's evil, he's evil in a different way from Frieza.

...if you think about it, Frost is literally a real estate speculator.

It's a much smarter evil in that it doesn't create resentment because no one thinks you're evil so no scheming behind your back like vegeta did with frieza
 

Ixion

Member
Good episode. The humor was well-written and it was cool to see Piccolo nearly win using his tactics. Frost got in some good blows too. And now it looks like we'll see Vegeta kick some ass.

After watching the dub for 9 months we're finally at a point with new material that's pretty good. Feels weird.
 

cntr

Banned
I prefer the dub, but people get way more bothered by the Japanese VAs than they should be, jeez.

Speaking of voice actors, almost forgot to mention, but Frost is voiced by Greg Ayres, the younger brother of Chris Ayres, Frieza's voice actor. It's cute.
 

Ixion

Member
Speaking of voice actors, almost forgot to mention, but Frost is voiced by Greg Ayres, the younger brother of Chris Ayres, Frieza's voice actor. It's cute.

He does a good job. Frost sounds like Frieza's younger mischievous brother, which is basically what he looks and acts like.

The only voices I don't like in Super are Bulma, Trunks, and Goten. Bulma and Goten sound too high-pitched and annoying, while Trunks clearly sounds like a woman trying to sound like a tough boy, which the original voice actress didn't sound like.

The rest are pretty on-point though.
 

cntr

Banned
I like Bulma's voice, but I can agree with Trunks and Goten. ...I've always thought their voices sounded like that, though, haha.

Frost and Frieza had the same VA in Japanese, so that was a dub innovation. Though, uh, given Chris's health issues, Greg will probably do all Frieza stuff from now on as well. :/
 
I like Bulma's voice, but I can agree with Trunks and Goten. ...I've always thought their voices sounded like that, though, haha.

Frost and Frieza had the same VA in Japanese, so that was a dub innovation. Though, uh, given Chris's health issues, Greg will probably do all Frieza stuff from now on as well. :/
For what it's worth in Latin America they also used the same voice actor for those two so my guess is the American dub is the outlier.

Also: the LatAm dub began airing a month ago but since they're doing it Monday through Friday burning through 5 episodes per week it means that we catched up with Toonami this past Friday. Tonight we'll be ahead followed by endless months of reruns until a new batch of episodes get dubbed since they'll finish these so quickly.
 

cntr

Banned
For what it's worth in Latin America they also used the same voice actor for those two so my guess is the American dub is the outlier.
Oh, yeah, Funimation does a lot of stuff like that.

They got the DBZ Abridged guys to do the Cell Saga movie at the beginning of Buu for Kai's dub, for example. (Though Toei complained and didn't let them use it for the Kai broadcast.)
 

zulux21

Member
I like Bulma's voice, but I can agree with Trunks and Goten. ...I've always thought their voices sounded like that, though, haha.

Frost and Frieza had the same VA in Japanese, so that was a dub innovation. Though, uh, given Chris's health issues, Greg will probably do all Frieza stuff from now on as well. :/

yeah, I have to imagine frost was a bit of a try out for Greg as Chris is basically done. Even if he manages to live it will likely be well over a year before he can even think about trying voice work again.

for those who don't know what is going on with him https://www.facebook.com/christopher.ayres.3/posts/10158952499650370

short coverage, he has nearly died a few times and needs a double lung transplant and double bypass surgery.

don't know if there has been much of an update sense then, just that he is still going to doctors.
 

cntr

Banned
Greg was Frost's voice in Xenoverse, so I assume the original plan was to have Chris doing Frieza and Greg doing Frost. But, well, yeah...
 

Zubz

Banned
yeah, I have to imagine frost was a bit of a try out for Greg as Chris is basically done. Even if he manages to live it will likely be well over a year before he can even think about trying voice work again.

for those who don't know what is going on with him https://www.facebook.com/christopher.ayres.3/posts/10158952499650370

short coverage, he has nearly died a few times and needs a double lung transplant and double bypass surgery.

don't know if there has been much of an update sense then, just that he is still going to doctors.

Wasn't he in remission, or at least looking stable? Chris is by far my favorite Frieza, & that's the one character literally every incarnation of Dragon Ball has nailed the voice for! That said, Greg is doing well as Frost; as cntr said, I think the plan was for the 2 brothers to voice each character, but I agree that Greg'll probably pick up Frost, at least while Chris is in recovery.

Chris seems like a really kind & thoughtful person; I wish him the best.

Bulma is fine but there's some fuckery going on with Trunks.

Wholeheartedly agree on Bulma, half-agreed on Kid Trunks. You can clearly tell the English VA is an adult woman trying to be a child, but it's more convincing than the Japanese VA being an adult man trying to be a child. There's just a gurgly quality to that Japanese voice. I'm assuming it's the same VA that voices the adult Trunks, which I understand, but the better choice would've been to take the dub route & have someone else voice him as a kid. Just like with Goku.
 

cntr

Banned
Unfortunately, COPD isn't the kind of thing you can recover from. Even if he makes it through, he'll be dealing with issues for the rest of his life. There's basically no chance he'll be able to voice act ever again. :(
 

zulux21

Member
Wasn't he in remission, or at least looking stable? Chris is by far my favorite Frieza, & that's the one character literally every incarnation of Dragon Ball has nailed the voice for! That said, Greg is doing well as Frost; as cntr said, I think the plan was for the 2 brothers to voice each character, but I agree that Greg'll probably pick up Frost, at least while Chris is in recovery.

Chris seems like a really kind & thoughtful person; I wish him the best.



Wholeheartedly agree on Bulma, half-agreed on Kid Trunks. You can clearly tell the English VA is an adult woman trying to be a child, but it's more convincing than the Japanese VA being an adult man trying to be a child. There's just a gurgly quality to that Japanese voice. I'm assuming it's the same VA that voices the adult Trunks, which I understand, but the better choice would've been to take the dub route & have someone else voice him as a kid. Just like with Goku.

I haven't been able to find any sort of major update since then aside from him still seeing doctors.

as for trunks, the major thing is that they changed voice actors. So that might be part of what is bothering you guys. The new one does a decent imitation but is still not Laura Bailey.

to be fair, Young Trunks is about as important as Yamcha in super... so doesn't matter to much lol.
 
Quick question, so adult swim has some eopsiodes that are currently free to watch (no cable subscription required). The episodes marked as such have shifted from week to week(i think?). Do we know if this will continue? Am I crazy? Does a cheap-o like me stand a chance here?
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
So was that their way of finally giving vegeta a chance to get peace with the frieza race? He finally got to finish one
 
So was that their way of finally giving vegeta a chance to get peace with the frieza race? He finally got to finish one

Yeah that felt right especially after all the time travel schenanigans with the final Frieza fight. I'm honestly really liking this show now that we are into to all new original material. Can't wait to see what's up with Beerus's final fighter.
 

Roronoa Zoro

Gold Member
Yeah that felt right especially after all the time travel schenanigans with the final Frieza fight. I'm honestly really liking this show now that we are into to all new original material. Can't wait to see what's up with Beerus's final fighter.

I like how the fighters haven’t all been powerhouses. Frost was dirty, the metal guy is using temperature strategy, the blob bear had a unique physical ability, and piccolo got to use some strategy as well (though it pisses me off that he didn’t get to eliminate anyone)

Kinda reminds me of the dragon ball martial arts tournaments where each fighter brought a new challenge
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Quick question, so adult swim has some eopsiodes that are currently free to watch (no cable subscription required). The episodes marked as such have shifted from week to week(i think?). Do we know if this will continue? Am I crazy? Does a cheap-o like me stand a chance here?

pretty standard for the adult swim website

just keep an eye open because the episode lineup on there will change every week

for currently airing shows, you'll always be a few weeks behind, though
 

Ixion

Member
I thought the last couple episodes were just alright. Some pretty good laughs and some interesting tactics used, but the simplistic animation and lack of any decent violence left me a bit unsatisfied (I thirst for violence!).

These last five tournament episodes should have more intense fights though from what I understand...
 

caliph95

Member
I thought the last couple episodes were just alright. Some pretty good laughs and some interesting tactics used, but the simplistic animation and lack of any decent violence left me a bit unsatisfied (I thirst for violence!).

These last three tournament episodes should have more intense fights though from what I understand...
I will say the more intense fights are coming soon

Funny enough Magetta was the start of the more difficult fights

Sniff Sniff Sniff
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
I will say the more intense fights are coming soon

Funny enough Magetta was the start of the more difficult fights

Sniff Sniff Sniff

man I hope it gets better

because right now it's just a fight focused anime without any good fights
 
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