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DWARF FORTRESS - For real this time. - This topic is for you (yes YOU)

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
SpinningFrog said:
I'm currently going through the "Complete and Utter Newby Tutorial for Dwarf Fortress" and it is pretty fun so far.

That's fantastic. I wish a guide like that existed when I was just starting it seems really well-produced. Once you move on and start your own fortress, be sure to document it, including your failure (especially your failure), and come back and share.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
Shining Sunshine said:
The randomness kills this game so bad. Having the most fortified shit ever, invaders can still get into my keep even though I have like a hall of 30 wardogs and 60 trained bowman.

If you hate invaders just disable them in the init.txt file.

Invaders can't get into your keep at all if you take even the most basic of precautions.

Simplest method: no external access whatsoever. You can do this with or without letting immigrants in. If you want to let immigrants in, leave a couple picks/axes on the surface and have the immigrants build a wall around themselves---designate a meeting are on the surface to get them to stay in that area. Once the wall is finished, dig a stairway down/up to your fort. When I first started playing I didn't let the immigrants in past the first 20 or so and then kept the fort sealed while working the immigrants to death building walls around tree farms, pumping stations, windmill farms, etc.

Next simplest method: retractable bridge(s). put one between your fortress and your depot and another one between your depot and the rest of the map. Keep inside bridge retracted until you've got traders in the depot, then retract external bridge and extend internal bridge so you can trade. Once the trading is done, reverse the bridges.

next method: dogs back up with melee fighters. Sounds like you've tried this, but perhaps you had all of your dwarf fighters in the same squad? Bad thing about that is if the squad leader runs off for drinking/eating/sleeping, so do all the rest. Just make 1-dwarf squads and stack them right behind the dogs. Dogs uncover, dwarfs kill.

If you've done all that and your base still gets penetrated you must be carving out other holes with your miners. Watch out for that. An easy way to test for "leaks" is to close all your doors/retract your bridges and then see if you can still build something outside from items that are inside, like a cage or a rope/chain. If all of them are inside and it lets you build one outside you know you have a leak. Perhaps best would be something like a rock coffin. Nobody is going to bring rock coffins to trade and you're not likely to litter the surface with them yourself.

Those are the simple ways, it just gets more complex---to the point of insanity---after that. I'll have to put my current map up and link to it. You'll see some fort security that would make the TSA jealous. Keeps my fort secure, AND allows me to kill every enemy in a siege. Nobody gets away, which means lots of iron and sometimes even some steel---damned dwarf traitors---for my industries. Another bonus of killing every enemy in a siege is that it is great exp for your dwarfs. I think it is 3x or 4x times the exp rate if you're actually fighting instead of sparring in the barracks, shooting at the archery range.
 
ixix said:
The most effective defense is a moat. Filled with lava. With only a single retractable bridge.

If anything it's too easy to keep everything out.
Oh you don't want to know how much shit I had to guard my place.

I didn't have lava around my place, but I had a 5 grid water moat with only one lift bridge entrance, and I have said before, I built an outer courtyard with no stairs to the upper level, because the upper level was filled with protected arrow holes or whatever they are called. I had 20 bowman there. Then to get into my kingdom, they had to go through a long hall of 50 war dogs and more bowman.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
here you go, defenses around my trade depot. You can't see the roach motel maze I've got built around it that I channel sieges into, but it is there. :p What you an see in this picture is 4 retractable bridges, cage traps, weapon traps, fortifications, dogs, etc. My guards are off in a different part of the fort killing something from the depths.

Most of the time I leave all of those bridges in place. The only thing that I actually need guards for there is a stealthed party of kobold guards. Kobold thieves get torn up by the dogs. Everything bigger than a kobold tends to get torn up by the traps. Kobold guards don't trigger the traps and they walk all over guard dogs. 3-4 marksdwarves behind that wall of fortifications will handle them just fine though. I just station them there if that early warning dog gets killed. Sucks to be early warning dog, lol.
30stwm0.jpg
 
i usually make a fortress out of sand, it helps keep the screen clear and not waste time on the rock hauling, i usually dig a huge quarry a few levels down for my rock needs, is there any drawback im not thinking of?
 

Mekere

Member
Well, wall can't be enhanced so your dwarfs will be less happy and your noble will be really angry. Usually I dig sand for storage and workplace only, bedroom, dinner room, well room and all that kind of room are dig in the stone and heavily enhanced.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I remember trying this around the time the GFW story appeared... I just had no idea what I was doing, but maybe I'll give it a shot again some time.


I mean, the game itself looks fascinating, but the GUI is just so obtuse.
 
God time I've spent way too many hours on this tonight :lol

Going through the tutorial... Haven't failed (yet) and I'm actually getting the hang of this, unlike my previous tries! I never knew this tutorial existed though and instead was going based off random Wiki information (which was great but was hard to get me started properly).
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
I worked on my "getting back into the swing of things" fortress a little more. No screenshot, but I finished up the grand hall I designated on the last page. I eventually decided it wasn't grand enough, and I'm just going to use it for workshops.

The first iteration of a little bedroom pattern I made myself. I know 2x3 is excessive for normal dorfs, but I always go all-out with bedrooms. They're the first things I smooth and engrave, too:
df7.png


My modest initial dining hall:
df8.png


My farming setup:
df9.png


That X is a floodgate, hooked up to the lever you can see just off the hallway. Lock the door, pull the level to flood the room, then pull it again to shut the floodgate. I'm proud of myself getting this right on the first try, because I was very fuzzy on remembering the details of how it all worked. It's still a ghetto solution, because the whole thing just drains down those steps into a big drainage room that doesn't go anywhere :lol

I'm already thinking about starting over, though. I have always make my fortresses in the same general style, and I think I want to try something completely new & different, for once.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
I've read about this game before, and I once dreamed about how cool it would be if Blizzard took on a similar concept lol.
 

Vanpira

Member
Does any one else have this problem? I downloaded four different versions of this game and the only one that plays music is the ascii(no mods) one. They all have the music in the sound folder but it doesn't play and it is grayed out in the options menu like it's not there. Also the ascii one plays a movie at start up, but the others don't.
 

edbrat

Member
one day I will try this, boatmurdered is one of the best game stories I've ever read, beats even the EVE online stuff.
 

Vagabundo

Member
This and ogame are the future of gaming!!

I got hooked on this before, my first fortress kept getting invaded by elephants and many amusing things happened to my dwarves...

Time to install it with the tile set.
 

Vagabundo

Member
I'm having a problem finding trees to chop down, here is my map

Are those green things trees? Becuase it wont let me designate them for chopping..

EDIT : okay it appears I accidentally deselected the Ax from the items screen before enbarking. Now I'll have to wait for some refuees or something...

vq38jo.jpg


Woo-Fu said:

Where did you get that tileset???
 

Vagabundo

Member
Hmm Okay new problem.

A trade mission came to me from another dwarvan fortress, but my map screen has shifted to a totally new area and I cannot get back to my fortress now. Seems to be a different map segment in the world.

Any idea how to get back to them, looks like they might be starving themselves for some reason.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
Vagabundo said:
I'm having a problem finding trees to chop down, here is my map

Where did you get that tileset???

Mike Mayday Edition which can be found HERE. There are actually 2 or 3 different tilesets in the package that you can switch between. Highly recommended for people just starting or people who don't want to mess around with much configuration. You can download 40d16 with the tilesets included.

About your tree question, yeah, green on the surface map is the only place you'll find trees above ground. If your map has an underground pool or an underground river, once you "discover" it/them then mushroom caps will grow on underground soil or underground muddied titles. These mushrooms are so big they're trees and you can harvest them for wood. :) This is the real way to go for longterm tree production as few maps will have enough above ground that you can safely harvest.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
Vagabundo said:
A trade mission came to me from another dwarvan fortress, but my map screen has shifted to a totally new area and I cannot get back to my fortress now. Seems to be a different map segment in the world.

Any idea how to get back to them, looks like they might be starving themselves for some reason.

You can't switch map segments in a fortress game. If you haven't set any hotkeys yourself F1 should take you back to where you first appeared with your wagon.

EDIT: Sounds like you've changed z-levels. The map goes up and down multiple levels. On my setup the keys are / and * on the numpad to go up and down z-levels. You can always check the keybindings to see what they are.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
Vanpira said:
Does any one else have this problem? I downloaded four different versions of this game and the only one that plays music is the ascii(no mods) one. They all have the music in the sound folder but it doesn't play and it is grayed out in the options menu like it's not there. Also the ascii one plays a movie at start up, but the others don't.


Check the init.txt file in $DF/data/init

What you're looking for is this:

[SOUND:OFF] set it to ON.
[VOLUME:0] any number between 0 and 255, you can change in game.
[INTRO:OFF] Change it to ON to watch the intro.

If you've downloaded other builds most likely these have been disabled because the intro just wastes time once you're used to it and there is so little music that what is there gets old, quick. I usually listen to my own music or podcasts while playing.
 
This looks really interesting. Hrm, I'll have a look into this. When I find some time. I have no time. Thread bookmarked for when I get a chance :)
 

bengraven

Member
So if I wanted to sneak in and drop a plague victim into a rival village and wait it out for the villagers to drop dead, is that possible?

If so, I'll be downloading it this weekend.
 
I'm a pretty huge DF guy. Glad to see this topic was made.

f0c58g.png


This was a project I was working on towards the beginning of summer. It's the DF version of 2fort from TF2. Dwarf 2Fortress I guess. To give some perspective this is on the 2nd level. The catapults are where snipers like to hang out.

I never did finish it
 

Vanpira

Member
Woo-Fu said:
Check the init.txt file in $DF/data/init

What you're looking for is this:

[SOUND:OFF] set it to ON.
[VOLUME:0] any number between 0 and 255, you can change in game.
[INTRO:OFF] Change it to ON to watch the intro.

If you've downloaded other builds most likely these have been disabled because the intro just wastes time once you're used to it and there is so little music that what is there gets old, quick. I usually listen to my own music or podcasts while playing.

Thank you very much, I played this a few years ago and the music is what kept me going. I fell as if I am going mad without it. You're right about the intro I didn't want it anyway(it's kind of creepy), I just thought there was some connection.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
You built right next to the HFS.

Circular layout is interesting, I'll have to try a build like that sometimes. I get pretty crazy with the bedrooms sometimes but most of my other stuff is a matter of trying to maximize dwarf efficiency in terms of pathing and portage.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Vanpira said:
Does any one else have this problem? I downloaded four different versions of this game and the only one that plays music is the ascii(no mods) one. They all have the music in the sound folder but it doesn't play and it is grayed out in the options menu like it's not there. Also the ascii one plays a movie at start up, but the others don't.

Right, as someone else mentioned, you can adjust all kinds of things in the init file, and (oddly) it's actually not as obtuse as the init files in most PC games. intro on/off, music on/off, things like weather effects, etc.

Vagabundo said:
I'm having a problem finding trees to chop down, here is my map

Are those green things trees? Becuase it wont let me designate them for chopping..

The "K" key acts as a look key. If you hit k, it will tell you what is on the tile your cursor is currently resting on. It should be your best friend. Even DF veterans need to use it, because ti can be hard to tell if you're looking at a tree or shrub, etc.

Also, trees grow over time. So a young tree that can't be cut down will grow into one you can harvest for logs in a year or two.

Vagabundo said:
Hmm Okay new problem.

A trade mission came to me from another dwarvan fortress, but my map screen has shifted to a totally new area and I cannot get back to my fortress now. Seems to be a different map segment in the world.

Any idea how to get back to them, looks like they might be starving themselves for some reason.

You can never entirely leave the section of the world you're playing in. But the sections can be quite large, if you selected a large area ont he embark screen.

There's a keyboard shortcut (I think it's "r"?) that will give you a high-level overview of the map, and show you what man-made structures are where. It's intended for when you have a large fortress and can't find your wood stockpile or something. But it should help you locate your fort, too.
 

syllogism

Member
Woo-Fu said:
You built right next to the HFS.

Circular layout is interesting, I'll have to try a build like that sometimes. I get pretty crazy with the bedrooms sometimes but most of my other stuff is a matter of trying to maximize dwarf efficiency in terms of pathing and portage.
I had done time consuming designs previously, so I decided to go for efficiency this time. It takes way too long to come up with original, interesting designs, especially in 3d, so I used this a few times

255mmc9.png
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
syllogism said:
I had done time consuming designs previously, so I decided to go for efficiency this time. It takes way too long to come up with original, interesting designs, especially in 3d, so I used this a few times

I've used that design myself more than once, because I love it. But it's actually incredibly inefficient :lol

Towards the end of those branches... you'd have a hard time designing a bedroom layout that took a dwarf MORE steps to get back to the main hall.

I think for my next fort I'll try to come up with something aesthetically pleasing and geometric like this, but also a little more functional and efficient. Probably by including multiple paths in/out.

In fact, I think I'll design my whole fort with that in mind. I always design forts with a central up/down stairway in the middle, with each floor radiating outward from that. I think next time I'll try a design where there's 4 stairways - north south east and west, and the function of the floor actually lies in the middle, between the 4.
 

syllogism

Member
GDJustin said:
I've used that design myself more than once, because I love it. But it's actually incredibly inefficient :lol

Towards the end of those branches... you'd have a hard time designing a bedroom layout that took a dwarf MORE steps to get back to the main hall.
Yes, though it wouldn't be too bad in 3d

e: to be clear, that's not the design I referred to when I was talking about efficiency
 
I never plan my fort out that far in advance. I start with a large hallway between my rooms and the surface that will eventually become defenses, but everything else just gets constructed fairly haphazardly as time goes on.

Works about as well as you'd expect :D
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
This is part of an old one I did. Not very efficient in terms of living space but I was making it so it would look like one of those aztec or mayan birds. Dining area in the central body, dwarf housing in the wings, clerk/mayor housing in the neck/head, noble housing in the tail.

You can see statue gardens on edges of the wings, I put those in and disabled meetings in the dining rooms. That way the dwarves can still have parties/marriages, but it keeps them small affairs instead of massive ones consuming every available worker.

This was right after diagonal walls got added to the mike mayday tileset so I went a bit overboard. :)

The rest of the fort is very efficient and is closely packed around those 4 up/down staircases in the bottom of the picture which are situated in the exact center of the map. When trying for efficiency, building on multiple z-levels works particularly well for anything that is a multi-stage/stockpile process. For instance I'll have forges on one level, then ore piles directly beneath and bar piles directly above with small working stockpiles around the forges for flux and charcoal when I'm making steel.

25fu88m.png
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
That's really good! The biggest problem with my forts is I can never seem to get away from the "hallway" model. I always have a central hallway, and then small hallways leading into each room.

I've always found forts that dig out *everything* but then have large rooms standing next to each other (like your design) to be more pleasing and the certainly seem more dwarfy. But I can never seem to wrap my head around them. I would have loved to see the dig designations for that screenshot, prior to it all being dug out and polished.

Maybe the easiest way to accomplish this the first time IS to just dig out a huge square, and then manually build walls to shape the inside as-desired.

The thing is, I can cut into solid stone to make the shapes that I want, but if I had a big open space, I just can't seem to utilize/visualize that into hallways, stockpiles, bedrooms, etc. Even though it's basically the same thing.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
GDJustin said:
Maybe the easiest way to accomplish this the first time IS to just dig out a huge square, and then manually build walls to shape the inside as-desired.
That is actually the hardest way, at least in terms of building it. Wall/floor building is a lot better now that you can specify more than one unit at a time but for something like this it is still a nightmare, not to mention all the stone hauling you'll have to do. On top of that you can't engrave built walls, only raw stone that has been smoothed. Engravings increase the value of areas and provide your dwarfs with happy thoughts. :)

Just designate your design but put a break at the start so the miners can't get to it, that way you can lay the whole thing out, look at it, think about it, etc., while letting the fort keep on going. Once you have something you want to try designate the break so the miners can get to it. You don't like the end result? Move down a z-level and do a new one. :p
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Yeah, that makes sense. I forgot about the engraving. I think the biggest problem with my designs is that I compartmentalize my digging too much. when I need a food stockpile, I'll dig a food stockpile. A dining room, I'll dig a dining room. These will be offshoots of my main hall.

Instead, I think I'll just designate a huge area for digging, and then UN-designate various sections that will act as walls and room dividers.

...that doesn't make much sense written out. I'll just take some screencaps when I get to it.
 
So after getting to page 8 on the tutorial, I decided to split off and do my own design and my own fortress, but after reading through more of the tutorial I can't find any good way of getting rid of all the extra stone I have and it makes it hard to build storage facilities underground. Any advice on how i can get rid of my stone?
 

Sciz

Member
I've just spent the evening reading Boatmurdered. It is without doubt the greatest account of any game I've ever read.
 
Anywhere that you have a bunch of stone, build a craftshop nearby, and give it a bunch of orders to produce stone crafts. The craftsdwarf will grab the closest stone to do it. I usually have a sort of nomadic stone-craftsshop that slowly but surely cleans out my fortress.

You will probably never be able to craft the stone as fast as it gets produced from the mining though, especially as your miners skill-up and become more likely to leave useful stone behind.
 
Well, a weaponsmith who arrived by immigration went berserk, luckily he didn't kill anyone. It was a tense couple of seconds though.
 
Peronthious said:
Video tutorials by Dubious Quality's Bill Harris that are an absolute must if you plan on diving into the game.

Every few months I dive in intending to actually figure it out. Every few months I start to grasp it and then fail miserably. If I had time, I'd dive in again.
"and....carp....Oh fuck...Carps are the most dangerous fish known to all dwarfkind...Carps have been known to kill dragons" :lol :lol :lol
 

Flynn

Member
I just played a mess of Nethack recently, trying to steel myself for some serious Dwarf Fortress play.

I think I'm ready.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
platypotamus said:
Anywhere that you have a bunch of stone, build a craftshop nearby, and give it a bunch of orders to produce stone crafts. The craftsdwarf will grab the closest stone to do it. I usually have a sort of nomadic stone-craftsshop that slowly but surely cleans out my fortress.

You will probably never be able to craft the stone as fast as it gets produced from the mining though, especially as your miners skill-up and become more likely to leave useful stone behind.

One of the cool things about DF is that there is often more than one way to skin a cat. When it comes to getting rid of stone I use multiple.

1. Dump area on magma. Toss it in the magma, it melts and disappears forever. I don't play too many maps without magma, so I'm very used to using it for many things, including a garbage disposal. I modded the raws for iron/steel specifically so I could dump used ammo in there and get rid of it too.

2. Bottomless pit/chasm. These make good dump sites too, toss something in there and it is removed forever.

3. Dwarven atom-smasher. This is a drawbridge built on top of a solid floor. You can't build a stockpile on that particular area but you can dump it through a hole one z-level above with the bridge raised. Once you're done dumping the garbage, lower the bridge. Bang! everything underneath is destroyed. This was a relatively cheap method to deal with megabeasts too, but I think they changed that particular code so it doesn't work nowadays.

4. Turn some portion of excess stone into block. You'll need block for things like wells, screwpumps, and some workshops. Block also makes for a higher grade of roads and bridges when used as the source stone. Block can also be stored in bins, so you can put a lot of it in stockpiles and then move it by bins when you need too---providing you have dwarfs strong enough to move a bin filled with stone block.

5. Use a bunch of dump areas, throughout your fort as needed. Sorta like how stones cleared from farming fields became the walls around those fields in the old days. You'll have a convenient source of stone wherever you need to build something and it won't take that many tiles of your dungeon to store it. Good thing about this is that it makes for the least amount of hauling work for your dwarfs. Make sure to only have the dump area you want to use enabled at any particular time, there are some quirks to the pathing logic that will make a dwarf haul something to places you wouldn't expect. Also nasty if you dump a bunch of soon-to-be-rotten-and-miasma-producing-corpses on a stone dump. I use this method a couple times at the start of the fortress to concentrate stone where my mason/mechanists workshops will be and I use it later on when clearing very large underground areas in preparation for large-scale tower cap farming.

There are a couple downsides to stonecrafting excess stone. Each stone will be turned into up to three items, effectively tripling the entities. Stonecrafts, even at masterwork quality aren't worth very much money, you'll have to sell a bunch of them to cover your caravan costs if you really buy a lot of stuff(like I do). Sure, you can sell by the bin but I like keeping my bins, particularly if I used precious wood to make them. This means lots of extra keystrokes in the trading interface. Stonecrafts have a horrible value to weight ratio. You might have enough to buy anything you want but you'll find some caravans don't have enough weight tolerance to cart off the stone crafts it would be required to cover your bill.

On top of that I don't think the stonecrafting skill is of value for anything else. You'll end up with a legendary stonecrafter who can't produce anything of real value. Perhaps stonecrafting counts for obsidian sword production? Obsidian swords are equivalent to steel swords and a good option for a fortress without steel. Be warned that stone swords require wooden hilts.
 

ixix

Exists in a perpetual state of Quantum Crotch Uncertainty.
GDJustin said:
The first iteration of a little bedroom pattern I made myself. I know 2x3 is excessive for normal dorfs, but I always go all-out with bedrooms.

Pish-tosh. I've always found the common practice of forcing dwarves to live in cramped tubes to be appalling. It's a goddamn mountain fortress, not a Tokyo hotel. 5x5 bedrooms for all, fully apportioned with statuary and furniture or bust.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Sciz said:
I've just spent the evening reading Boatmurdered. It is without doubt the greatest account of any game I've ever read.

I know, right? So good. Now start your own fort and document your own adventure :D

SpinningFrog said:
So after getting to page 8 on the tutorial, I decided to split off and do my own design and my own fortress, but after reading through more of the tutorial I can't find any good way of getting rid of all the extra stone I have and it makes it hard to build storage facilities underground. Any advice on how i can get rid of my stone?

Nice! Take pics. Post said pics.
 
ixix said:
Pish-tosh. I've always found the common practice of forcing dwarves to live in cramped tubes to be appalling. It's a goddamn mountain fortress, not a Tokyo hotel. 5x5 bedrooms for all, fully apportioned with statuary and furniture or bust.

You're even more generous than me. I always go 3 x 3 for regular dwarves with 6 x 6 for the stupid nobles.

Everyone eventually gets fully engraved walls though, so that's nice.
 
Well I was doing pretty good, just had my third said of migrants come and join my people, but then everyone started dieing. Apparently I forgot to build wells. Lesson learned.

Time to start again.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
platypotamus said:
Everyone eventually gets fully engraved walls though, so that's nice.

Once I get a wave or two or immigrants I usually set one or two to do nothing but smooth/engrave. I also set 1-2 to do NOTHING but haul stone :D

There just isn't enough for everyone to do otherwise, unless you draft a huge army.

After I set 1-2 to exclusively engrave I just designate the entire fortress. Bedrooms and dining hall first, then entryway, then everything else (including storage rooms which I always imagined made them grumble quite a bit).

Anyway, a couple pics from my current retraining fortress. The game is starting to come back to me pretty well now, so it's possible I'll re-roll again soon. We'll see. Since I just wanted to remind myself how to play I settled in a very friendly environment, and frankly it's not very exciting. Might re-roll in a high-evil area next. No more leaving workshops outside for 3+ seasons while I work on the perfect indoor setup. :lol Those dwarfs will IMMEDIATELY dig a hole in the ground and wall in said hole the moment the disembark :lol

Anyway...

My dwarfs made... some friends? I guess? Something tells me they're being a little too trusting of Zasit Idenbab. But so far, so good.
df10.png


I am a little bit OCD about dumping stone in magma or bottom less pits... I just can't ever let it go to waste, even tough rationally I know there's a near-limitless supply. To use up the stone currently cluttering my fortress, I'm creating a huge, outer-fortress on top of and around my inner-fortress:

df11.png


What you're looking at are the beginnings of me designating where stone floor needs to be built. I am known for incredible, impractical construction, but this one is a doozy, even for me. It's probably going to take a year just to do the first floor, since they have to travel through my fort to pick up each individual stone they will need to use.
 
SpinningFrog said:
Well I was doing pretty good, just had my third said of migrants come and join my people, but then everyone started dieing. Apparently I forgot to build wells. Lesson learned.

Time to start again.

Wait. You make your dwarfs drink water? You are a cruel taskmaster.
 
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