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EA's VP Söderlund on the Switch: "...didn’t get the concept, I was puzzled by it..."

The interesting takeaway here is not that he thought the Switch wouldn't be successful- a lot of people especially here shared that sentiment- rather, it's interesting that he didn't even understand the concept of the product. The commercial success of the product isn't part of that discussion really.

That only says that demand among enthusiasts is high — the Wii sold 100 million. A few thousand lining up doesn't tell us much about broader demand. I think the Switch will be extremely successful, but it's impossible to say what exactly that success will look like so early in the console's life.

A few thousand people lining up multiple times a week for 6 months. Not just a few thousand people lining up once or twice ever. The Switch is on its way to sell the entire LTD sales of the Wii U in less than a year, and possibly even more than that.

The broader demand is absolutely there.
 

brad-t

Member
A few thousand people lining up multiple times a week for 6 months. Not just a few thousand people lining up once or twice ever. The Switch is on its way to sell the entire LTD sales of the Wii U in less than a year, and possibly even more than that.

The broader demand is absolutely there.

Sorry, "broader demand" was an over-simplification on my part. Just trying to say that while it's clear the console is a success, the spectrum of success is quite wide and difficult to know where on the spectrum the Switch will land over the next few years. Clearly in Japan it's going to capture the attention of most people that are interested in video games. It seems safe to say that it will be closer to the Wii than Wii U, in any case ;)

However, I remember seeing some sales data showing that the vast majority of people that bought Switches so far were Wii U owners already (I wasn't, FWIW). But that was closer to launch than now, so it's possible that's changing now.
 

oti

Banned
The interesting takeaway here is not that he thought the Switch wouldn't be successful- a lot of people especially here shared that sentiment- rather, it's interesting that he didn't even understand the concept of the product. The commercial success of the product isn't part of that discussion really.

I remember when we all joked about Switch rooftop parties.

*insert Playstation manager my life is a Switch ad Tweet here*

The whole concept of share the joy is just really out of the ordinary in today's world. Everyone focuses on their own screen all the time and Nintendo thought they could break through that by demanding people to focus on the same screen. And it works! Which is surprising.
 
Sorry, "broader demand" was an over-simplification on my part. Just trying to say that while it's clear the console is a success, the spectrum of success is quite wide and difficult to know where on the spectrum the Switch will land over the next few years. Clearly in Japan it's going to capture the attention of most people that are interested in video games. It seems safe to say that it will be closer to the Wii than Wii U, in any case ;)

However, I remember seeing some sales data showing that the vast majority of people that bought Switches so far were Wii U owners already (I wasn't, FWIW). But that was closer to launch than now, so it's possible that's changing now.

Uh I certainly haven't seen anything like that... I could've missed it but I'd be a bit surprised, that seems like it would be bigger news.

The only sales data I remember seeing is that something like 80% of Switch owners were in their 20s and 30s, and 90% were male. The anecdotal data (which is actually probably an oxymoron) on sites like Gaf and Reddit showed a lot of people who haven't owned a Nintendo console since the N64 or Gamecube buying the Switch shortly after launch.

Anyway yeah, it's been 6 months and the demand is incredibly strong worldwide. I don't really see any way it falls off a cliff when the "enthusiast demand" is satisfied, since that's basically never happened with a videogame console before after such great early sales.

I remember when we all joked about Switch rooftop parties.

*insert Playstation manager my life is a Switch ad Tweet here*

The whole concept of share the joy is just really out of the ordinary in today's world. Everyone focuses on their own screen all the time and Nintendo thought they could break through that by demanding people to focus on the same screen. And it works! Which is surprising.

Well sure, that aspect of it was questionable (and still kind of is- we don't know that's WHY it's selling so well, though I'm sure it's part of it) of course but it still should've been fairly easy to grasp exactly what the idea was. Not knowing whether or not it would sell well, but just acknowledging what the concept and idea really was should not have been difficult even years ago. Unless Nintendo presented it exceedingly badly or something.
 

meerak

Member
lol him and everyone else.

Most of gaf thought it was a bad idea too, but, of course now everyone says they knew better.
 

MoonFrog

Member
The interesting takeaway here is not that he thought the Switch wouldn't be successful- a lot of people especially here shared that sentiment- rather, it's interesting that he didn't even understand the concept of the product. The commercial success of the product isn't part of that discussion really.
.
Yeah. It'd make sense to me if he were unclear on its prospects in the market.

A very broad understanding of the quote could read him as talking about that--a target market is part of the concept of a product--and I think you do have to assume he means something in that neighborhood to make sense of the quote.

I don't think he could be confused about the discrete use cases. Switch as a stationary and Switch as a portable is understandable enough. I imagine he had to be confused about the fluidity of the device and how appealing hybrid play would be in the real world and what the Switch needed to accomplish it.

Things like the local co-op in tabletop mode he discusses are central to Switch's hybrid nature. They bring console multiplayer to the portable scene, one-console, one-game, two controllers. I can get being confused by the elaborate joycons and the fluidity between traditionally separate use cases. Especially if it is inarticulately presented.

I think plenty of us were confused by the joycons and we tend to still talk about Switch as a stationary or portable in turn, as if it acts separately in each capacity when there is pretty strong feature carry-over between the different cases, because of things like the joycons.
 
Sorry, "broader demand" was an over-simplification on my part. Just trying to say that while it's clear the console is a success, the spectrum of success is quite wide and difficult to know where on the spectrum the Switch will land over the next few years. Clearly in Japan it's going to capture the attention of most people that are interested in video games. It seems safe to say that it will be closer to the Wii than Wii U, in any case ;)

However, I remember seeing some sales data showing that the vast majority of people that bought Switches so far were Wii U owners already (I wasn't, FWIW). But that was closer to launch than now, so it's possible that's changing now.

The early "excuse" online for the Switch's success is "lol it's just the WiiU owners buying it, it will crater at 13 million".

I still can't believe there were people on here saying it would sell less than WiiU lol!
 

MoonFrog

Member
lol him and everyone else.

Most of gaf thought it was a bad idea too, but, of course now everyone says they knew better.
It was a great idea for the situation Nintendo finds themselves in--the natural idea while also a revolutionary idea. I think Nintendo has also executed it well on both a hardware and first party software level. Sales have so far been good and there are encouraging signs (and some discouraging ones) of continued/expanded (in scope) Japanese developer support.

I hope it keeps selling well and that that support grows. I also hope companies like EA come to understand the device and use it well. I doubt the latter.
 

beastlove

Member
Wii + 3DS volume? You think Nintendo is looking for 160 million + sales?

What do the PS4 and Wii have to do with anything either?

I really don't know to be honest what Nintendo would gauge as successful. It was more a question. The switch by design impacts on both the handheld and console market hence why it is relevant to compare it to the PS4 and Wii. It is also logical to suggest that it needs to sell more than the 3DS and Wii u combined or overall they would have sold less hardware and it wouldn't be a success. The Wii and DS sold more than the Wii U and 3ds so it was a question of what number they need to do. At the moment we don't know the real demand for the switch.
 

Skiesofwonder

Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
lol him and everyone else.

Most of gaf thought it was a bad idea too, but, of course now everyone says they knew better.

Actually most of GAF was very high on the switch after the reveal trailer, it was the lackluster lineup reveal during the January event that turned most of GAF sour on the system's prospects.
 
I mean, most of us weren't much better

*NeoGAF at reveal* "lol Wii U style bomba"

*NeoGAF from March 3rd - Present* "Why the hell didn't they make more units?! they should have expected this."
 
I mean, most of us weren't much better

*NeoGAF at reveal* "lol Wii U style bomba"

*NeoGAF from March 3rd - Present* "Why the hell didn't they make more units?! they should have expected this."

+ "It's just artificial scarcity! My local EB Games in Australia has 5 Switches sitting on the shelf right now."

The goalposts will always be moving though. The classics "it's just selling to hardcore Wii U fans" and "it needs to outsell previous handheld + console combined to be successful" are already here.
 

JABEE

Member
People are getting really angry about an honest admission from a guy who was surprised by the Switch.

Also, there is a difference between not understanding how the basic function operates and not understanding the commercial appeal and selling point to a concept.

Soderlund appears to be referencing the latter.
 

Caelus

Member
People are getting really angry about an honest admission from a guy who was surprised by the Switch.

? Not seeing it, at least in this thread. If the switch was presented to him years ago as the nx then I'm sure there was some hesitation.
 

Otnopolit

Member
People are getting really angry about an honest admission from a guy who was surprised by the Switch.

Also, there is a difference between not understanding how the basic function operates and not understanding the commercial appeal and selling point to a concept.

Soderlund appears to be referencing the latter.

Exactly! I agree with both points. He is actually being humble by saying he didn't see the success coming, and has since seen the appeal thanks to his son. This is a positive article.
 

Poyunch

Member
ZIUWEiX.jpg


"I see it as a handheld that you can dock, but he sees it as a console that you can take outside"



o50lbB3.jpg


"Now this may shock you, but you're both right!"

This is a good post. I just wanted to point this out.
 

link4117

Member
What's with the ridiculous revisionist history here? Many, many people had reservations about it and some outright didn't think it'd be a success; especially coming from the Wii U. It wasn't an unpopular opinion to be wary and have doubts about it here and many other places.
 

Malakai

Member
In the article, this is what get me the most:

Söderlund said:
I looked at it and thought, why would you play on that instead of this? But now it’s crystal clear to me why.

Either he is falling into the more power is better camp and/or he really doesn't think that there is a market for games on portable systems or portable like systems. I'm shocked that he even phrased it like that in the above quote.
 

EDarkness

Member
Actually most of GAF was very high on the switch after the reveal trailer, it was the lackluster lineup reveal during the January event that turned most of GAF sour on the system's prospects.

This place and around the net was dire after that January event with the $299 price reveal. There was a ton of doom and gloom out there, but luckily the system was able to beat that and prove a lot of folks wrong.
 

VariantX

Member
Actually most of GAF was very high on the switch after the reveal trailer, it was the lackluster lineup reveal during the January event that turned most of GAF sour on the system's prospects.

That and the weird assed switch event.

Nintendo at least finally solved their software drought problems. You don't see talk of lack of software to play outside of the first 2 months which is pretty much every console's problem. They just have stock availability problems which is an infinitely better problem to have.
 

MoonFrog

Member
In the article, this is what get me the most:



Either he is falling into the more power is better camp and/or he really doesn't think that there is a market for games on portable systems or portable like systems. I'm shocked that he even phrased it like that in the above quote.
There's a gap between Nintendo and the industry at large insofar as it sees the PS/Xbox paradigm as the future. This is particularly relevant to western 3rd parties but many Japanese companies would also rather target the established western core market.

Nintendo has been forced to think outside that paradigm by a) chasing Japan, b) losing ground in home consoles, both prior to Wii and after Wii, c) finding their strength in the portable sector (a declining and peculiarly attached to Japan sector), and d) their peculiar angle on software.

So they don't see eye-to-eye. Moreover, Nintendo tends to want to lead from the front, by example with their own software, and that doesn't help this situation.
 
Actually most of GAF was very high on the switch after the reveal trailer, it was the lackluster lineup reveal during the January event that turned most of GAF sour on the system's prospects.

People were sour on the January event for like a couple of weeks but by the time marketing really began to roll out with the Super Bowl commercial and Breath of the Wild would be launching with the system, a fool could see its success coming a mile away.
 

Malakai

Member
There's a gap between Nintendo and the industry at large insofar as it sees the PS/Xbox paradigm as the future. This is particularly relevant to western 3rd parties but many Japanese companies would also rather target the established western core market.

Nintendo has been forced to think outside that paradigm by a) chasing Japan, b) losing ground in home consoles, both prior to Wii and after Wii, c) finding their strength in the portable sector (a declining and peculiarly attached to Japan sector), and d) their peculiar angle on software.

So they don't see eye-to-eye. Moreover, Nintendo tends to want to lead from the front, by example with their own software, and that doesn't help this situation.

Every game that EA makes doesn't necessary target just the "established Western Core Market". For example, why is the Sims 4 skipping the Switch? Why couldn't EA have PopCap port some of their games onto the Switch? Despite Nintendo's focus, there is opportunities to make money on Nintendo platforms. Why does, what seem like the entire, gaming industry seem to miss that point? Better yet, why does it seem like folks such as Söderlund IQ seems to drop by dozens of points when it comes to Nintendo? The only way that I can interpret that statement is if also part of the crowd that thinks portable console/ dedicated handheld gaming is dead, despite the 3DS in the West still ahead Xbox One with the 3DS having only first party support at the retail level. In all honesty, the only games that EA that doesn't fit on Nintendo platforms are the super hyper violence and possible the hardcore simulation type games. One doesn't have to see eye to eye to make money with partner; especially, when that partner is providing you with a customer base.

Could you even blame Nintendo from "leading from the front"? Taking a brief look at the Japanese market You have Capcom (with Monster Hunter World) and Square Enix (Dragon Quest XI initially planning to be PS4 only!) and Bamco ( hand waving away the sales of Digimon game on the Vita selling 10x as much as the PS4 version to make a PS4 only sequel) straight up ignoring their market demand for portable games and still releasing them on home consoles despite the majority Japanese market saying hell no to home consoles. How else can Nintendo do it?
 

rhino4evr

Member
I ordered a switch today from Amazon. I was really trying to hold
Code:
out, but I never owned a Wii U, and Zelda, Mario Kart 8, and Mario Odyyssey all look to good to pass up.

I also really loved the prime trilogy back in the day.

I really hope Nintendo can keep up the software though. That's my biggest worry.
 
I ordered a switch today from Amazon. I was really trying to hold
Code:
out, but I never owned a Wii U, and Zelda, Mario Kart 8, and Mario Odyyssey all look to good to pass up.

I also really loved the prime trilogy back in the day.

I really hope Nintendo can keep up the software though. That's my biggest worry.

I think they will have fairly high software output and more Japanese Third Parties will join in. The Switch's dev tools seem to be much better than the Wii U's and with mostly a single focus on Switch in the future it should be interesting.
 

Meesh

Member
This guy doesn't get it, but clearly his kid does... maybe his kid has more imagination? I dunno, the comments almost read as though he was intentionally dismissive and uninterested from the start? Or... I'm just reading into it too much. Well whatever the case the majority are taking notice... whether that translates into more support remains to be seen IMO. Just waiting on some key titles maybe.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
"No guys, the Switch wasn't well received despite being huge on social media, the reveal trailer getting over 30 million views and generating a lot of positive buzz all across the board even on Gaf."
And then suddenly, "wow Nintendo so incompetent I could have seen this massive success even if Wii U was a failure!"
 
Soderlund was handed the Switch and upon examining it his first instinct was probably contemplating on how to license it into a video game before frustratingly giving up on the device altogether.
 
I really don't know to be honest what Nintendo would gauge as successful. It was more a question. The switch by design impacts on both the handheld and console market hence why it is relevant to compare it to the PS4 and Wii. It is also logical to suggest that it needs to sell more than the 3DS and Wii u combined or overall they would have sold less hardware and it wouldn't be a success. The Wii and DS sold more than the Wii U and 3ds so it was a question of what number they need to do. At the moment we don't know the real demand for the switch.

This only makes sense if Nintendo defines success in such a simplistic way. I think Nintendo would see SW sales as far more important than HW sales. Right now the switch is moving a lot of SW and it's selling that SW at home console prices. Even if the switch fails to match the 3DS and wii U combined in HW it's going make a shitload more revenue from SW and accessories.

It has also stopped the downward spiral that Nintendo were in. Combined the 3DS and wii U will sell somewhere around 170 million less pieces of HW than their predecessors and the SW situation is even uglier.

Nintendo has made their brand positive again and has brought them into the limelight for 3rd parties which will hopefully bare fruit in the coming years.

There is also the question of if Nintendo is even capable of supporting 2 pieces of HW going forward as making games becomes increasingly more demanding. That's something that the switch will solve.
 

brad-t

Member
Uh I certainly haven't seen anything like that... I could've missed it but I'd be a bit surprised, that seems like it would be bigger news.

The only sales data I remember seeing is that something like 80% of Switch owners were in their 20s and 30s, and 90% were male. The anecdotal data (which is actually probably an oxymoron) on sites like Gaf and Reddit showed a lot of people who haven't owned a Nintendo console since the N64 or Gamecube buying the Switch shortly after launch.

I wasn't able to find the data point I mentioned but I did find the survey you're referring to here, so it seems I'm misremembering. Apologies for the error.
 

Dre3001

Member
I think a lot of people are giving him too much flack for his comments. I definitely remember after the revealing that Gaf was trashing the device for its costly accessories and weak launch titles.

I don't want to necro bump the reveal thread but if you search it's clear that many people did not have faith in the Switch even on here.

Perhaps Nintendo is simply bad at presenting their ideas. It seems like the console hands on videos and reviewer impressions got more people on board than the reveal.
 
I really don't know to be honest what Nintendo would gauge as successful. It was more a question. The switch by design impacts on both the handheld and console market hence why it is relevant to compare it to the PS4 and Wii. It is also logical to suggest that it needs to sell more than the 3DS and Wii u combined or overall they would have sold less hardware and it wouldn't be a success. The Wii and DS sold more than the Wii U and 3ds so it was a question of what number they need to do. At the moment we don't know the real demand for the switch.
Perhaps you initially meant to say Wii U and 3DS then and not Wii and 3DS?
 

MoonFrog

Member
Every game that EA makes doesn't necessary target just the "established Western Core Market". For example, why is the Sims 4 skipping the Switch? Why couldn't EA have PopCap port some of their games onto the Switch? Despite Nintendo's focus, there is opportunities to make money on Nintendo platforms. Why does, what seem like the entire, gaming industry seem to miss that point? Better yet, why does it seem like folks such as Söderlund IQ seems to drop by dozens of points when it comes to Nintendo? The only way that I can interpret that statement is if also part of the crowd that thinks portable console/ dedicated handheld gaming is dead, despite the 3DS in the West still ahead Xbox One with the 3DS having only first party support at the retail level. In all honesty, the only games that EA that doesn't fit on Nintendo platforms are the super hyper violence and possible the hardcore simulation type games. One doesn't have to see eye to eye to make money with partner; especially, when that partner is providing you with a customer base.

Could you even blame Nintendo from "leading from the front"? Taking a brief look at the Japanese market You have Capcom (with Monster Hunter World) and Square Enix (Dragon Quest XI initially planning to be PS4 only!) and Bamco ( hand waving away the sales of Digimon game on the Vita selling 10x as much as the PS4 version to make a PS4 only sequel) straight up ignoring their market demand for portable games and still releasing them on home consoles despite the majority Japanese market saying hell no to home consoles. How else can Nintendo do it?

I'm not sure Nintendo can do much else.

One thing ideally would be to make sure people like this guy don't walk away confused and like "oh Nintendo will make it work somehow or they won't but I certainly don't get it." His reaction says a lot about Nintendo's ability to pitch their vision to western third parties. How much of that is on Nintendo doing a poor unconvincing job and how much of that is on these companies just not trusting Nintendo's sales potential or uninterested in trying their alternative platforms much is unclear. Perhaps Nintendo could do better and change things, perhaps there is some degree, to which doing better changes nothing.

(A notable counterpoint is Skyrim Switch, which Nintendo does seem to have successfully courted Bethesda to do).

I also don't think leading from the front helps them much in the west. Just look at Wii/DS. I think Switch will get your Fifas and CoDs if it does well, as well as things like the Lego games, which also continued on Wii U. Ubisoft will also probably try some things out, like Rabbids.

With Japan, you've got a shrinking domestic console market that is significantly divergent from global console trends and a mobile market that is the true dominant domestic force. Switch changes that situation by making PS4/Switch much more viable than PS4/3DS and you can reach a global and domestic audience with one game, so long as it isn't pushing PS4 to its limits, which hardly any Japanese game is doing.

When Nintendo is doing well, it is doing particularly well in Japan, so it can be made attractive to an extent by leading from the front. I do think 3DS vs. DS and DQXI (initial decision) and MHW are indicative of it being the case that Nintendo is in that uncomfortable in-between zone discussed above. So I do think, in the end, Switch being what it is, will alleviate that negative effect to a noticeable degree.

Big 3DS partners like Capcom and Level-5 being so "wait-and-see," at least in public, about Switch does paint a picture of Nintendo having trouble reaching out about Switch much like the quotes in the OP. It is an open question if Nintendo could have convinced them to be more invested in Switch in some way before the Switch started doing well.
 
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