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[Finalizer]

"Power struggle: the real differences between Sony and Microsoft shills"

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Indeed. It's crazy to see how differently this has worked out than some people's expectations preceding these consoles' announcements. The overwhelming belief back then was that Sony wouldn't manage to create a better gaming machine than Microsoft. This perspective was quite reasonable, as MS had built up a lot of goodwill over the intervening console generation (minus some discontent at their increased focus on Kinect titles).

Then came the massive MS meltdown. Everyone saw a humbled Sony's vision for the future paired against a suddenly massively anti-consumer Microsoft. I know I was absolutely nonplussed. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen so many policy reversals prior to a product's launch.

Now we've arrived at a point where gamer sentiment has largely shifted against Microsoft, while Sony seem to be in the good graces of many. A point where it seems that Sony's console is not only more powerful, but also easier to develop for. A point where their console is actually CHEAPER, something that I know I certainly didn't predict (just look at old prediction threads for kicks). It's amazing how much things can change in a few months; I certainly wouldn't have put any money down on such an outcome.

It has to be a hard time to be a staunch Xbox fan, likely to the same degree that it was for Sony fans in 2006. I'd imagine that if you loved the experiences you had with that brand, you could feel compelled to defend it, like many would reasonably want to do for their hobbies. Just looking at a scattering of other forums (like N4G), it's sad to see how disheartened some posters are by the lack of good news on the Xbox front. Just as it was in 2006 with Sony fans.

The issue with this shift is that it has left several posters with no recourse but to claim that certain forums are unfairly biased against their console of choice. The problem with that line of thinking is that it implies that this sentiment against MS is unearned. It isn't, just like the discontent with Sony was also warranted in 2006.

I hope that MS can turn it around, because I'm a fan of games--any major games company fucking up is bad for gaming. It's going to take time for MS to regain the ground they've lost, but damn am I excited for that journey! I believe that a MS that is aggressively trying to win back the gaming community is more likely to increase their output, resulting in more games on the market. Any value that they decide to add to patch the wound is just icing on the cake.

This is a great post.

I too am excited for this journey, and hopeful for a MS that comes out humbled and hungry in a few years like Sony is right now.

 

[Manmademan]

One thing we can be certain is that Nintendo probably won't move much consoles and they will release their next console in 2-3 years just like they did with Wii after Gamecube failure and if they are smart they will buff up specs to get "best experience on" sign and get developers and publishers onboard. Right now ship has sailed and without UBI supporting them it would be already dead. I

I'm not even sure that's viable. the Wii was nintendo targeting a completely different audience because they were either incapable or had no desire to compete with Sony and Microsoft head to head.

That approach failed with the WiiU. the expanded audience doesn't exist anymore. Chasing it a third time is disaster.

At the same time, they don't have the resources or engineering capability to design something on the level that sony or MS do. sure, they could design a superior system 3 or 4 years out without too much effort, but whatever it is will just get steamrolled two years from then when new systems roll out. releasing halfway through the gen just doesn't make much sense.

 

[Dysun]

Why the fuck would anyone post a gif from the Dexter finale less than a week after its showing?! It's revealing enough to be considered a spoiler;

Spoiler

going by the expression, Dexter probably heard something related to his close ones, so now anyone who sees it knows there's something bound to happen to some of them

; and IMO banworthy. I absolutely hate this habit of posting gifs of just aired TV series on completely unrelated threads. There's no way to avoid them, like the official threads about the series, where gifs like that should be confined in.

He did you a favor, the final season was shit. Worst season and finale ever

 

[StuBurns]

Nintendo will bow out.

Despite the many issues with the Wii U, bad marketing, widespread market confusion, price, performance, etc. the real issue is Nintendo simply do not have the bandwidth to sustain two platforms with where graphic technology is currently at.

That leaves them with two options, fight to significantly increase their internal development bandwidth, which is costly, and risky, or focus exclusively on one platform.

They'll support the Wii U as they are until they're ready to launch the follow up to the 3DS, then they'll drop Wii U support and leave the console space.

 

[Zolf]

and it was known.

I will ask this question and hopefully it will be a civil discussion point, but how will companies like Activision deal with PS4 being stronger and running games that are associated with the Xbox brand better than their own partner? I know we've had this discussion in another thread, but realistically can we expect. I know I hate the series, but playing CoD: Ghosts with KZ and BF4 has me hard as hell.

Activision and EA's partnerships with Microsoft and Sony extend only as far as the 2 manufacturers are willing to pay. There's no allegiance; if Microsoft is willing to pay to help advertise Call of Duty, then why not? Microsoft is dropping a lot of money on Titanfall, thus they get it and their competitor doesn't. Sony is dropping some cash on Destiny, thus they get more cross-promotion and exclusive DLC.

I seriously doubt that any major publisher would intentionally gimp one version for parity. It's definitely possible that a little more effort will be spent optimizing the weaker version, but that's about it. However, you will never hear EA/Activision speak candidly about any major performance difference. Even if the in-game difference is night and day, they will only speak vaguely about any variances between the two.

 

[Cheech]

I haven't read the entire thread, but it's a bit of a leap to suggest that everyone who isn't vehemently anti-Microsoft is a shill. That attitude makes some of you look like lunatics.

I'm going to get an Xbone, either around Titanfall or the next Halo. Some people just want to play games and not turn everything into a holy war, FFS.

 

[Finalizer]

That approach failed with the WiiU. the expanded audience doesn't exist anymore. Chasing it a third time is disaster.

Problem with that conclusion is that it assumes the Wii U was competently targeted at the casual audience to begin with; between the high price, pathetic marketing and confusing naming/design ("it's a tablet add-on for the Wii right?"), it's hardly so, and wound up failing to find any audience besides the Nintendo faithful.

 

[Brera]

Nintendo will bow out.

Despite the many issues with the Wii U, bad marketing, widespread market confusion, price, performance, etc. the real issue is Nintendo simply do not have the bandwidth to sustain two platforms with where graphic technology is currently at.

That leaves them with two options, fight to significantly increase their internal development bandwidth, which is costly, and risky, or focus exclusively on one platform.

They'll support the Wii U as they are until they're ready to launch the follow up to the 3DS, then they'll drop Wii U support and leave the console space.

This is bullshit.

Nintendo do have the resources and money to go toe to toe with Sony and MS.

The current leadership is the problem not their resources.

 

[Perkel]

I'm not even sure that's viable. the Wii was nintendo targeting a completely different audience because they were either incapable or had no desire to compete with Sony and Microsoft head to head.

That approach failed with the WiiU. the expanded audience doesn't exist anymore. Chasing it a third time is disaster.

At the same time, they don't have the resources or engineering capability to design something on the level that sony or MS do. sure, they could design a superior system 3 or 4 years out without too much effort, but whatever it is will just get steamrolled two years from then when new systems roll out. releasing halfway through the gen just doesn't make much sense.

I was not talking about creating new Wii 2 i was talking about Nintendo going for strong hardware.

Wii U plan was to get casuals on board like Wii did. It failed, casuals play their games on mobile phones now. If they want to sell consoles they need to target hardcore gamer first and then later casual people as console will sell.

I have no doubt Nintendo fans would sing songs with tears in their eyes if they would get console from Nintendo to match PS4/Xbone or even outclass them (considering it will release later).

 

[Wynnebeck]

I haven't read the entire thread, but it's a bit of a leap to suggest that everyone who isn't vehemently anti-Microsoft is a shill. That attitude makes some of you look like lunatics.

I'm going to get an Xbone, either around Titanfall or the next Halo. Some people just want to play games and not turn everything into a holy war, FFS.

Shill!

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

This whole post, and this particular point, is excellent. Well done sir.

Thank you guys for the kind words. I know I can be a bit of a windbag, but I'm just really passionate about my hobby. I'm really looking forward to the next seven years.

 

[StuBurns]

This is bullshit.

Nintendo do have the resources and money to go toe to toe with Sony and MS.

The current leadership is the problem not their resources.

I didn't mention money.

As for resources, Sony and MS don't sustain their platforms on their own, they have massive amounts of AAA third party support, Nintendo have themselves, to even compete they need five times the internal bandwidth at least, and they don't even have equal when splitting between their console and handheld.

But we shall see.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I haven't read the entire thread, but it's a bit of a leap to suggest that everyone who isn't vehemently anti-Microsoft is a shill. That attitude makes some of you look like lunatics.

I'm going to get an Xbone, either around Titanfall or the next Halo. Some people just want to play games and not turn everything into a holy war, FFS.

Way to reduce the entire conversation to a poor generalization of the discussion at hand. When someone is caught with having an email address link to a Microsoft partnership, dedicates his Twitter, Reddit, and Gaf accounts to preaching the religious beauty of Titanfall, downplaying specs, and reading the same talking points of all Microsoft PR, 9/10 times that guy is a shill. But idk man, I guess we're all lunatics for subscribing to that modest school of thought. Sorry.

Edit: Perhaps you should actually "read the thread" before you paint everyone with the same brush?

 

[Binabik15]

And it's not even fully accurate. Every PS4 owner will have an exact performance benchmark. While maybe 1% or less of all PC owners will have hardware specs that match or exceed the PS4 on day 1. So yes, the PC CAN have the greatest performance, especially as the generation gets older, but to emphatically say "The PC version is the best" rests squarely on the shoulders of the individual PC owners and the hardware they've purchased.

As a PC gamer, I personally cannot play these games at the same level that the PS4 will play them. Maybe in a few years if I choose to buy another gaming laptop or something. So for ME on the day the PS4 comes out, the PC version of these games will NOT be the better version.

(But besides graphics and hardware, the PC version will technically still be better because it has guaranteed backward compatibility to ensure that when I do eventually get new hardware, 10 years down the road for example, the game will be able to look insanely good and run at 120 fps and probably have player-made mods such as higher res textures and 4k resolution support, so the legacy improvement of older games ensures that eventually the PC version still comes out on top due to ever-increasing hardware combined with infinite backward compatibility.)

One per cent? No, that sounds wrong when talking about people who actually going to play multiplatform games and not browser games.

I still agree that the PC dick waving is obnoxius. I have a good rig compared to the average, not high end, but a nice OC'd 7870 and a quad core. Do I feel the need to call all console gamers dumb or claim that I can run everything maxed at 60 fps? No. I have drops in BF3 and the AA in that game is just not that well done, The Witcher 2 tanked me into the twenties when spinning the camera (from 40s to 50s usualy), some games like Saints Row 3 are almost unplayable thanks to the devs fucking AMD owners. That's another thing, proprietary stuff like PhysX and paying devs for better performance on your cards make playing on pc the same as the console warz crap.

What really ticks me off are the guys who rag on consoles and go all Master Race on every game in every thread and about the saviour 60 fps when they play on low end or low mid end cards.

Or the nonstop bitching about games being dumbed down because of the console gamer and his stupidity. Because Call of Duty and all the dumb multiplat games don't actually sell on pc, right, and the superior performance is just theoretical, because who would play such dreck?


I am German and here it is normal to play on consoles and pc and not get into silly slap fights over it. Just buy the good multiplat games where you want them for reason X, the exclusives on their system and stop talking as if Portal is the pinnacle of all that is and will be when the thread is about Killzone.

PS: Okay, I lied, at least one of the annoying c guys is German, sorry for that .

 

[ThisWreckage]

Microsoft is missing the point with viral marketing. They're completely missing the boat. They wouldn't need people to shill to the hardcore gaming community if their management could communicate effectively, drop the hubris, and essentially keep their mouths shut. I prefer the PS4, but even I can admit that most of Microsoft's current problems stem from awful PR and backward philosophy. Not to say that Sony didn't revamp their image and learned to be less arrogant, but Microsoft holds a large part in their own tarnished image.

 

[Perkel]

I haven't read the entire thread, but it's a bit of a leap to suggest that everyone who isn't vehemently anti-Microsoft is a shill. That attitude makes some of you look like lunatics.

I'm going to get an Xbone, either around Titanfall or the next Halo. Some people just want to play games and not turn everything into a holy war, FFS.

You should read original Xbone policy thread. It is graveyard. Literally there were ton of shills approved few months ago and suddenly all those people were posting some candy posts about MS after 5-6 posts in other threads (mainly something pro MS).

That is not "suggesting". MS paid that company/ies to post positive things about MS on our boards. It wasn't coincidence. It was planned because MS expected something like this will happen after they will release info about their new xbone policy. So they hoped forum talk will be divided to pro MS choice instead of being completely negative toward MS. Thanks to this they could use "not all people dislike those changes" and point at different forums.

That thread i mentioned is living proof of that. Absolute shit ton of people banned in matter of 24h. Probably Bish longest ban streak he ever had.

 

[Night Angel]

He did you a favor, the final season was shit. Worst season and finale ever

True story. That show has been going downhill for a while, though.

Anyway, it seems like this thread is the ultimate flytrap for shills. They can't resist the sweet smell of a technical debate where they can work their spin-element magic, and the bish cleans them up. Here's to hoping for another 100 pages!

 

[RoboPlato]

Microsoft is missing the point with viral marketing. They're completely missing the boat. They wouldn't need people to shill to the hardcore gaming community if their management could communicate effectively, drop the hubris, and essentially keep their mouths shut. I prefer the PS4, but even I can admit that most of Microsoft's current problems stem from awful PR and backward philosophy. Not to say that Sony didn't revamp their image and learned to be less arrogant, but Microsoft holds a large part in their own tarnished image.

I agree with this. Since the DRM and Kinect reversal they could have regained a lot of lost favor if they just had a less condescending, more clear, and more honest PR message to go with it. Saying things their ideas were too futuristic for us to understand just makes it hard to forgive and forget.

 

[Skeff]

I haven't read the entire thread, but it's a bit of a leap to suggest that everyone who isn't vehemently anti-Microsoft is a shill. That attitude makes some of you look like lunatics.

I'm going to get an Xbone, either around Titanfall or the next Halo. Some people just want to play games and not turn everything into a holy war, FFS.

The poster we are laughing at signed up here with a company email which apparently was for a marketing firm working for MS and is about as crazy as misterxmedia.

Nothing wrong with wanting an xb1.

 

[Taker34]

This is a great post.

I too am excited for this journey, and hopeful for a MS that comes out humbled and hungry in a few years like Sony is right now.

The thing is I feel like being humble isn't the only thing that matters. Somehow even cocky Sony didn't felt as evil to me as Microsoft does right now. Yes, Sony thought they own the gaming industry after the PS2 was THE gaming console, but MS with their DRM (used games, always on), NSA, Kinect decisions just appear to be very greedy and anti-comsumer in general. They just do the most necessary things for gamers, like having about 3 big Xbox IP's and that's kinda it. While Sony seems to create/buy more and more exclusive studios and games.
Sony doesn't care about selling our personal data and Kinect-like advertising possibilites (look at their UI - no ads!), they just want the whole core market and a PS1/2-like monopoly. Maybe it's the difference between western/japanese mentality. Somehow I don't trust Google and Facebook as much as Nintendo for example.

But that's just my opinion of course.

 

[thunder_snail]

That thread i mentioned is living proof of that. Absolute shit ton of people banned in matter of 24h. Probably Bish longest ban streak he ever had.

What I imagine Bish sounding like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym4VmVwd24c

 

[Verendus]

This is bullshit.

Nintendo do have the resources and money to go toe to toe with Sony and MS.

The current leadership is the problem not their resources.

They really don't. People should begin accepting the cold harsh reality that was evident over a decade ago, and that is the fact the majority of people don't care enough for Nintendo franchises for them to sustain a console. The Wii was a big fluke and its success was more to do with Wii Sports, not Zelda or Mario or some other obscure Nintendo IP which some fans will vehemently claim to be popular. The industry went in one direction and Nintendo isolated themselves by going another. Industry support is important, and it's why Sony and Microsoft are in much better positions. Good luck to them but they're not long for the console world.

 

[Biker19]

Indeed. It's crazy to see how differently this has worked out than some people's expectations preceding these consoles' announcements. The overwhelming belief back then was that Sony wouldn't manage to create a better gaming machine than Microsoft. This perspective was quite reasonable, as MS had built up a lot of goodwill over the intervening console generation (minus some discontent at their increased focus on Kinect titles).

Then came the massive MS meltdown. Everyone saw a humbled Sony's vision for the future paired against a suddenly massively anti-consumer Microsoft. I know I was absolutely nonplussed. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen so many policy reversals prior to a product's launch.

Now we've arrived at a point where gamer sentiment has largely shifted against Microsoft, while Sony seem to be in the good graces of many. A point where it seems that Sony's console is not only more powerful, but also easier to develop for. A point where their console is actually CHEAPER, something that I know I certainly didn't predict (just look at old prediction threads for kicks). It's amazing how much things can change in a few months; I certainly wouldn't have put any money down on such an outcome.

It has to be a hard time to be a staunch Xbox fan, likely to the same degree that it was for Sony fans in 2006. I'd imagine that if you loved the experiences you had with that brand, you could feel compelled to defend it, like many would reasonably want to do for their hobbies. Just looking at a scattering of other forums (like N4G), it's sad to see how disheartened some posters are by the lack of good news on the Xbox front. Just as it was in 2006 with Sony fans.

The issue with this shift is that it has left several posters with no recourse but to claim that certain forums are unfairly biased against their console of choice. The problem with that line of thinking is that it implies that this sentiment against MS is unearned. It isn't, just like the discontent with Sony was also warranted in 2006.

I hope that MS can turn it around, because I'm a fan of games--any major games company fucking up is bad for gaming. It's going to take time for MS to regain the ground they've lost, but damn am I excited for that journey! I believe that a MS that is aggressively trying to win back the gaming community is more likely to increase their output, resulting in more games on the market. Any value that they decide to add to patch the wound is just icing on the cake.

I definitely agree with this post. Well done!

Why is it that these companies let power/success go to their heads? Don't they learn from the competition's mistakes (Sony launching with a $600 PS3, Nintendo upping the 3DS price to $250, and then Microsoft with anti-consumer policies after the success of 360)? Get a grip, guys!

At least Sony had a reason to be arrogant after they won big with PS1 & the PS2. Same with Nintendo after they won with the NES, SNES, Wii, & the DS.

Microsoft, however, didn't win a thing. They've never won a console generation at all, & the only reason why they were successful with the 360 is because of Sony's constant foul-ups with the PS3 (Robbie Bach even admitted it).

 

[Lord Error]

I hope that isn't a spoiler about the last season of Dexter, that ended only less than a week ago.

It's from last season but you can't deduce absolutely anything useful or spoilerific from that gif, trust me.

 

[GravyButt]

I just cant wait until we get some real in depth reviews with people who have spent time with both consoles. I have both preordered but decided im only getting one. At first xbone because of DR3, but the more I think about it I realize how boring the other DR were after a few hours. Now im thinking ps4 simply because of power. Oh well, still got some time to decide, and yay first post!!

 

[Doc Evils]

*checks rinemy's email account*
*immediately recognizes Microsoft partnership*
*calls to wife for advice on how to spell 'disingenuous' for the ban message*
*goes back to playing GTA V*

Why is Microsoft so obsessed with Gaf?

I don't really understand how out of all three companies, Microsoft spread their shills like flower petal confetti at a carnival .

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

I just cant wait until we get some real in depth reviews with people who have spent time with both consoles. I have both preordered but decided im only getting one. At first xbone because of DR3, but the more I think about it I realize how boring the other DR were after a few hours. Now im thinking ps4 simply because of power. Oh well, still got some time to decide, and yay first post!!

Welcome! I would caution you against making your decision based on one game or the power differences. Instead, I would urge you to look at the list of exclusive games and features of the upcoming consoles, and their predecessors. Find the one with more experiences that appeal to you. The power difference could end up being a noticeable thing, but I doubt that it will impact third party games to the point where they aren't playable on the weaker console. If you can live with possibly reduced resolution or effects while retaining all the essential experience of the game, then I'd say that the power difference shouldn't impact your decision too much. If you are more graphically inclined and don't care about exclusive games, then I'm sure that the power difference would hold more sway in your calculations.

Either way, you can't really make a "wrong" decision. Both consoles will offer plenty of value over the next generation. Your satisfaction is pretty much guaranteed either way.

 

[Freshmaker]

What really ticks me off are the guys who rag on consoles and go all Master Race on every game in every thread and about the saviour 60 fps when they play on low end or low mid end cards.

The most glaring is the claim that anyone posting on the internet is already using hardware vastly superior to a console.

As if every $300 Wal-Mart rig can bust out 1080p @ 60fps.

 

[CoG]

Why is Microsoft so obsessed with Gaf?

I don't really understand how out of all three companies, Microsoft spread their shills like flower petal confetti at a carnival .

It's not just GAF, paid marketers are everywhere. Reddit, Amazon reviews, Facebook, etc. Shillwork is not a Microsoft exclusive. I recently read 20% of online reviews are from fake shills.

Microsoft has been using shills going back to Windows. Shillary can work if there's decent material to work with in the first place, but in the Xbone's case the hardware situation is so greatly stacked against them that anyone making claims about equality are suspect.

Having said that, I think a lot of Microsoft employees genuinely think the Xbox One is mostly equal to the PS4 from a HW perspective. When you're in a vacuum all day and that's the message you keep hearing over and over you sort of buy into it. Since moving to Seattle I've got to meet a lot of MS folks and while most of them have been indifferent on the topic I have talked to a few who were clearly high on the Kool Aid.

 

[lazydom]

When are we expecting the next digital foundry puff piece? Been a while since they suggested the balance of the x1 would limit the differences between the two systems, be interesting to see what else ms have up their sleeves.

 

[Finalizer]

Indeed. It's crazy to see how differently this has worked out than some people's expectations preceding these consoles' announcements. The overwhelming belief back then was that Sony wouldn't manage to create a better gaming machine than Microsoft. This perspective was quite reasonable, as MS had built up a lot of goodwill over the intervening console generation (minus some discontent at their increased focus on Kinect titles).

Then came the massive MS meltdown. Everyone saw a humbled Sony's vision for the future paired against a suddenly massively anti-consumer Microsoft. I know I was absolutely nonplussed. I'm pretty sure I haven't seen so many policy reversals prior to a product's launch.

Now we've arrived at a point where gamer sentiment has largely shifted against Microsoft, while Sony seem to be in the good graces of many. A point where it seems that Sony's console is not only more powerful, but also easier to develop for. A point where their console is actually CHEAPER, something that I know I certainly didn't predict (just look at old prediction threads for kicks). It's amazing how much things can change in a few months; I certainly wouldn't have put any money down on such an outcome.

It's certainly been an unexpected situation looking from the grand scheme of things, and I still feel surprised to see what otherwise looks like a fairly one-sided battle, what with one being cheaper, more powerful, easier to develop for. I still maintain that after the likes of Allard and Moore left, the higher-ups at MS thought they could leverage the Xbox brand to become the Apple of the living room, and failed to realize that the battle for that space has largely become irrelevant in the wake of the rise of mobile. While I'm sure MS will do what they can to turn things around, it's gonna be rough watching the first year.

It's also fun looking back at older threads, and just recalling general internet-wide sentiment leading into this upcoming generation. The idea that MS had all the money in the world to spend on some dual GPU monster console and buy up every exclusive at their leisure, only to come to a reality where they do not, in fact, have some magic infinite supply of money that they can exclusively spend on the console warz. Speaking of money, it's tickling to look back through some of the GDDR5 threads between the reveal and E3 and all the "Prepare for another $599+" posts.

On top of all that, it's just been so amusing to see the grand sum of unexpected twists. That Sony would have the more powerful console. That they'd be the straightforward ones. That MS would actually reverse their old policies (and so quickly!). Seems like the theme is something like "Place your bets if you wanna lose money real fast."

 

[GravyButt]

Welcome! I would caution you against making your decision based on one game or the power differences. Instead, I would urge you to look at the list of exclusive games and features of the upcoming consoles, and their predecessors. Find the one with more experiences that appeal to you. The power difference could end up being a noticeable thing, but I doubt that it will impact third party games to the point where they aren't playable on the weaker console. If you can live with possibly reduced resolution or effects while retaining all the essential experience of the game, then I'd say that the power difference shouldn't impact your decision too much. If you are more graphically inclined and don't care about exclusive games, then I'm sure that the power difference would hold more sway in your calculations.

Either way, you can't really make a "wrong" decision. Both consoles will offer plenty of value over the next generation. Your satisfaction is pretty much guaranteed either way.

True, im still unsure if im going to get either one actually. Might just stick to PC. I have my firstborn coming in March, and I just cant picture myself justifying $60 a game. I know,weak but oh well.

 

[Biker19]

Why is Microsoft so obsessed with Gaf?

I don't really understand how out of all three companies, Microsoft spread their shills like flower petal confetti at a carnival.

Have you ever seen these?

Embrace, Extend, & Extinguish.
Criticism of Microsoft.
Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt (Microsoft).

Now tell me that they're not a bad influence on everything that they touch.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

True, im still unsure if im going to get either one actually. Might just stick to PC. I have my firstborn coming in March, and I just cant picture myself justifying $60 a game. I know,weak but oh well.

If the price of games is a sticking point for you, then you may indeed want to stick to PC gaming. If you are still in the market for a console, I'd recommend you check out what Sony has done with PS+. I've managed to go several months without purchasing games due to their Instant Game Collection. It's also worth mentioning that there are several F2P games on the console. Although, since you have a PC, that's not really adding any value. You do get Resogun and Driveclub for free at launch, though.

 

[Manmademan]

Problem with that conclusion is that it assumes the Wii U was competently targeted at the casual audience to begin with; between the high price, pathetic marketing and confusing naming/design ("it's a tablet add-on for the Wii right?"), it's hardly so, and wound up failing to find any audience besides the Nintendo faithful.

COMPETENTLY targeted? no. Nintendo misread the market to a great degree, trying to sell a tablet controller to an audience that already had $130 kindle fires. But targeted squarely at the casual audience (and nintendo faithful) it was. The WiiU is in NO WAY a machine for the X360 audience in any respect.

I was not talking about creating new Wii 2 i was talking about Nintendo going for strong hardware.

Wii U plan was to get casuals on board like Wii did. It failed, casuals play their games on mobile phones now. If they want to sell consoles they need to target hardcore gamer first and then later casual people as console will sell.

I have no doubt Nintendo fans would sing songs with tears in their eyes if they would get console from Nintendo to match PS4/Xbone or even outclass them (considering it will release later).

Nintendo has NEVER, EVER been good at "designing strong hardware." The Gameboy, essentially a portable monochrome NES released in 89. NEC released the Turboexpress a year later in full color with the capabilities of the Turbografx-16. The SNES and N64 were only marginally more powerful than their 2 year old competition. GC was the last time you could have argued they made the attempt, but even then the Xbox was significantly stronger, and released within about a month. Forget the Wii- Comparing the hardware capabilities of the PSP to the DS, or the 3DS to the Vita. Nintendo is either not capable or not interested in designing cutting edge hardware.

The Wii and WiiU were simply a concession that designing strong hardware wasn't something they were good at, so why bother?

 

[Doc Evils]

It's not just GAF, paid marketers are everywhere. Reddit, Amazon reviews, Facebook, etc. Shillwork is not a Microsoft exclusive. I recently read 20% of online reviews are from fake shills.

Microsoft has been using shills going back to Windows. Shillary can work if there's decent material to work with in the first place, but in the Xbone's case the hardware situation is so greatly stacked against them that anyone making claims about equality are suspect.

Having said that, I think a lot of Microsoft employees genuinely think the Xbox One is mostly equal to the PS4 from a HW perspective. When you're in a vacuum all day and that's the message you keep hearing over and over you sort of buy into it. Since moving to Seattle I've got to meet a lot of MS folks and while most of them have been indifferent on the topic I have talked to a few who were clearly high on the Kool Aid.

Have you ever seen these?

Embrace, Extend, & Extinguish.
Criticism of Microsoft.
Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt (Microsoft).

Now tell me that they're not a bad influence on everything that they touch.

What an interesting bunch they are indeed.

May they never dominate consoles ever!

 

[DigitalOp]

The thing is I feel like being humble isn't the only thing that matters. Somehow even cocky Sony didn't felt as evil to me as Microsoft does right now. Yes, Sony thought they own the gaming industry after the PS2 was THE gaming console, but MS with their DRM (used games, always on), NSA, Kinect decisions just appear to be very greedy and anti-comsumer in general. They just do the most necessary things for gamers, like having about 3 big Xbox IP's and that's kinda it. While Sony seems to create/buy more and more exclusive studios and games.
Sony doesn't care about selling our personal data and Kinect-like advertising possibilites (look at their UI - no ads!), they just want the whole core market and a PS1/2-like monopoly. Maybe it's the difference between western/japanese mentality. Somehow I don't trust Google and Facebook as much as Nintendo for example.

But that's just my opinion of course.

I can really agree with bolded. Who knows... they might be doing the same thing with our data too but I feel 1000x more comfortable with them having my info than any western company...

 

[Finalizer]

COMPETENTLY targeted? no. Nintendo misread the market to a great degree, trying to sell a tablet controller to an audience that already had $130 kindle fires. But targeted squarely at the casual audience (and nintendo faithful) it was. The WiiU is in NO WAY a machine for the X360 audience in any respect.

My only point was to say that, claiming "the expanded audience doesn't exist anymore" as a reason for the Wii U's failed approach just seemed inappropriate, when I'd say I agree with this assessment in that the Wii U wouldn't have found that casual audience to begin with. Not to say it'd be easy for anyone to light a spark like the original Wii did again, but I'd wager the experiences people expect between a home console dedicated to vidya versus a mobile device with cheap/free apps are two different animals.

 

[killatopak]

Hi guys,(20 pts?)

I've been lurking for quite awhile(around cboat esram yields). Its my first day being a junior. I hope you're lenient with me

I was not really interested about the power gap in the first place since I was more interested in the games shown to me during e3, particularly FFXV, MGSV and KH3, and I already had my console choice buying all its iterations and handhelds. I then learned that those 3 were not exclusives anymore. Suddenly I was more interested with PS4 having a large power gap with xbox one or just its power and specs in general. This mean I'll be getting the absolute best version( for consoles only, PC guys ), the definitive version of those 3 games when I buy the PS4 and I think that's what drew me more and maybe others more to the PS4 even if Xbox one has very good exclusives such as Ryse and Forza.

Microsoft's DRM policies drew me away from them when I heard rumors about it since internet's kinda weak where I live so it really was PS4 for me at the time. I'm not really a multiplayer kind of guy so I think you know what I'll choose even if you give me reasons such as better online experience and that's what the PS brand is better know for which is single player stuff.

I bought the PS3 for GOW3, FFVersusXIII, MGS4 and FF7remake and I think people who bought the 360 for their sequels and compelling exclusives were the same too. Maybe if I had an OG xbox and played MS' exclusives then, maybe I too would have bought the 360 and the One next gen but the better multiplats, easier to develop for and cheaper in price that PS4 has gives it a much better leverage than the One if you owned both the 360 and the ps3.

Off topic: I can't help but notice that it was always bish that bans people and I haven't seen any other mods do so for my whole stay at Gaf. Is there an unwritten rule that only bish gets to ban people?

PS: English is my 3rd language. Sorry for any wrong grammars,spelling, lack of punctiations and just my writing in general.

 

[Manmademan]

My only point was to say that, claiming "the expanded audience doesn't exist anymore" as a reason for the Wii U's failed approach just seemed inappropriate, when I'd say I agree with this assessment in that the Wii U wouldn't have found that casual audience to begin with. Not to say it'd be easy for anyone to light a spark like the original Wii did again, but I'd wager the experiences people expect between a home console dedicated to vidya versus a mobile device with cheap/free apps are two different animals.

I would agree, the experiences are totally different. but pick up any article about the gaming audience over the last two years, and you'll see many, many journalists confusing the two as if the mobile market is stealing gamers from the home audience.
The GTA launch should put the nail in the coffin of that argument, but you can't blame Nintendo for buying into it.

We can speculate all day as to where the wii's audience went, but at the end of the day there's nothing nintendo could have done to capture it.. Even if $130 tablets weren't already everywhere, I doubt it would have caught on. The WiiU just seems like a desperation move once Wii sales fell off a cliff in 2010.

 

[onQ123]

Maybe we should get back to talking about Tech & forget about all this who shot johnny industry stuff.



All I know is that for the devs to be saying that the PS4 is 50% more powerful than the Xbox One even after the CPU\GPU upclock there has to be something going on that we don't know about or PS4 APU design is just that good.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

Hi guys,(20 pts?)

I've been lurking for quite awhile(around cboat esram yields). Its my first day being a junior. I hope you're lenient with me ....

Welcome! And your english is probably better than mine, and it's my first language.

Bish is not the only one that bans, most of the mods do that here. He's just the one that does it with style, hence his reputation.

 

[Skeff]

Hi guys,(20 pts?)

I've been lurking for quite awhile(around cboat esram yields). Its my first day being a junior. I hope you're lenient with me

I was not really interested about the power gap in the first place since I was more interested in the games shown to me during e3, particularly FFXV, MGSV and KH3, and I already had my console choice buying all its iterations and handhelds. I then learned that those 3 were not exclusives anymore. Suddenly I was more interested with PS4 having a large power gap with xbox one or just its power and specs in general. This mean I'll be getting the absolute best version( for consoles only PC guys ), the definitive version of those 3 games when I buy the PS4 and I think that's what drew me more and maybe others more to the PS4 even if Xbox one has very good exclusives such as Ryse and Forza.

Microsoft's DRM policies drew me away from them when I heard rumors about it since internet's kinda weak where I live so it really was PS4 for me at the time. I'm not really a multiplayer kind of guy so I think you know what I'll choose even if you give me reasons such as better online experience and that's what the PS brand is better know for which is single player stuff.

I bought the PS3 for GOW3, FFVersusXIII, MGS4 and FF7remake and I think people who bought the 360 for their sequels and compelling exclusives were the same too. Maybe if I had an OG xbox and played MS' exclusives then, maybe I too would have bought the 360 and the One next gen but the better multiplayer that PS4 has gives it a much better leverage than the One if you owned both the 360 and the ps3.

Off topic: I can't help but notice that it was always bish that bans people and I haven't seen any other mods do so for my whole stay at Gaf. Is there an unwritten rule that only bish gets to ban people?

PS: English is my 3rd language. Sorry for any wrong grammars,spelling, lack of punctiations and just my writing in general.

Good PC disclaimer, shame it's needed at the moment.

Good first post, don't worry about your spelling and grammar it was a very coherent post, with better grammar than most native English speakers use.

Enjoy NeoGAF.

 

[Manmademan]

Maybe we should get back to talking about Tech & forget about all this who shot johnny industry stuff.



All I know is that for the devs to be saying that the PS4 is 50% more powerful than the Xbox One even after the CPU\GPU upclock there has to be something going on that we don't know about or PS4 APU design is just that good.

the upclock is meaningless PR bullshit. Sony's advantage in literally every area (GPU strength, memory speed, available amounts of memory, better drivers, ease of programming) is so huge that a 9% increase in CPU speed (when these things are designed to be GPGPU for everything that matters) is totally pointless. Microsoft shouting it from the rafters as loud as they possibly could should tell you everything you need to know about how bad their position is after getting hammered on the DRM front.

 

[Chobel]

So I was looking at this rinemy guy reddit account and I stumbled upon this http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1nbf88/nda_lifts_tomorrow_for_some_aspects_of_xbox_ones/

They're saying that NDA lifts tomorrow, is this true?

All I know is that for the devs to be saying that the PS4 is 50% more powerful than the Xbox One even after the CPU\GPU upclock there has to be something going on that we don't know about or PS4 APU design is just that good.

My guess will be Xbox OS reservation(2 cores, 10% GPU) leads to this 50% difference gap.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Indeed. It's crazy to see how differently this has worked out than some people's expectations preceding these consoles' announcements. The overwhelming belief back then was that Sony wouldn't manage to create a better gaming machine than Microsoft. This perspective was quite reasonable, as MS had built up a lot of goodwill over the intervening console generation (minus some discontent at their increased focus on Kinect titles).

It wasn't a common belief but MS where in a (better) position to do what Sony is doing right now spec wise. They had been very successful money wise (software sales + live subs) this gen. So they could bulldoze their way with a loss leader model targetting higher specs. Instead they chose to go for the profit on day 1 route but not reaching for the specs.

I'll be getting the absolute best version, the definitive version of those 3 games when I buy the PS4.

Pretty much.

 

[ethomaz]

So I was looking at this rinemy guy reddit account and I stumbled upon this http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/1nbf88/nda_lifts_tomorrow_for_some_aspects_of_xbox_ones/

They're saying that NDA lifts tomorrow, is this true?.

I think we will have a lot of NDA dates until the launch

 

[Skeff]

It wasn't a common belief but MS where in a (better) position to do what Sony is doing right now spec wise. They had been very successful money wise (software sales + live subs) this gen. So they could bulldoze their way with a loss leader model targetting higher specs. Instead they chose to go for the profit on day 1 route but not reaching for the specs.



Pretty much.

I think this is where the multimedia features are biting MS on the arse, they decided they needed 8gb of ram for these and at that time, this meant DDR3, this in turn meant they need APU space for some kind of embedded ram, which put them at a huge APU even now. If they were to up the Performance of the machine from this point it would be incredibly costly to match the PS4, not just in raw upfront costs but in hugely decreasing the yields of the APU by making it even bigger, These things are fabricated on wafers and you can only have so many Wafers in the oven at a time so to speak and they take a long time, I would say Microsoft, whjilst setting out with having 8gb of ram and expensive audio hardware to handle kinect, have actually done quite a good job of getting the performance they currently have.

"Xbox, Skype" has created a huge difficulty in the design process, Microsoft can't have there cake and eat it too.

I think we will have a lot of NDA dates until the launch

I'm willing to bet 10 Skeff dollars this get's pushed back

 

[Manmademan]

I think this is where the multimedia features are biting MS on the arse, they decided they needed 8gb of ram for these and at that time, this meant DDR3, this in turn meant they need APU space for some kind of embedded ram, which put them at a huge APU even now. If they were to up the Performance of the machine from this point it would be incredibly costly to match the PS4, not just in raw upfront costs but in hugely decreasing the yields of the APU by making it even bigger, These things are fabricated on wafers and you can only have so many Wafers in the oven at a time so to speak and they take a long time, I would say Microsoft, whjilst setting out with having 8gb of ram and expensive audio hardware to handle kinect, have actually done quite a good job of getting the performance they currently have.

I can agree with that. MS made their multimedia functions a priority, unfortunately those functions did not have the appeal they were anticipating, and Sony is slaughtering them in pre-orders in just about every territory.

now we're looking at a lot of backtracking and bullshit to put the two consoles "on par" in terms of gaming performance, when that's not what microsoft designed it to do in the first place.