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[badb0y]

Once again, I called this weeks ago .

Reading through the comments here and on other sites it seems like people are dwelling in the past. I have seen comments mentioning the difference between PS3 vs Xbox 360 and downplaying the significant lead the PS4 has over the Xbox One. The biggest difference between this generation and next generation is that the architecture is the same on the PS4, Xbox One, and the PC. We don't need voodoo math to translate performance figures so we can compare them directly and we would know where the consoles stand. Anyone who is a PC enthusiast knew this the moment PS4 and Xbox One specs were revealed, all the other people are just being ignorant or trying to overlook the facts.

 

[Flatline]

I don't treat them like amateurs, I just don't see what they could possibly do with the 40% difference (especially given the same CPU). Image quality enhancements can easily gobble up such small difference. Devs only started giving PC extra features when the average PC became several times more powerful than PS360.

Framerate, IQ, textures and so on. The point is that you're making an argument that is wrongly assuming that the 50% difference will be minimized because the devs won't bother with the PS4 version. That doesn't make any sense and it's pure wishful thinking. On the contrary, the fact that Xbone's hardware is a "pain in the ass" might make the difference even bigger for some not so skilled devs.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Not sure why this matters. The most powerful console usually doesn't sell the best.

Ah man Tom. I used to think you were relatively plugged into the gaming industry.

I'm so frustrated by this power thing. The PS2 came out more than 18 months before the Xbox. The console gen was decided before the Xbox was released; it could have been weaker than the PS2 and it would not have mattered. The whole conversation is meaningless; it does not reveal anything about consumer choices or consumer tastes.

However, if you examine the PS2 in the context in which it was released, you would surely realize that power was a key component of how the system was marketed to consumers. You would know:

• That the hardware components were given humanizing marketing names like "Emotion Engine" and "Graphics Synthesizer"
• That the PS2 was reported on in the media as being a supercomputer ("Sadaam Hussein is importing them TO LAUNCH MISSILES!")
• That the famous "PS9" ad linked the PS2 to a chain of consoles so powerful it became part of your mind
• That Kutaragi spoke about the PS2 as having "Toy Story like graphics" and that players would "jack into the matrix"

Stop being so intellectually dishonest. The PS2 was a monster when it came out. That power mattered.

Yes, it's true that, "The most powerful console has never won the generation!!!!111" But such an observation is facile and meaningless. The SNES and Genesis went head to head on power. The early days of the PS1 vs. Saturn was nothing but a 3d pissing match. The N64 was all about power and it debuted with a paradigm-shifting 3D title. The Dreamcast was a powerful machine ("it's thinking") and the PS2 came out and blew it away.

Am I saying the most powerful machine wins? No. Am I saying power is very important? Absolutely. Even this generation more consumers chose HD gaming machines than non-HD gaming machines and there is the possibility that the PS3 will close out the gen in first place.

So stahp.

 

[Nightengale]

Sometimes I think NeoGAF should be doing the PR for them, they just don't have a clue so far. You post is spot on. Exclusives, UI demos etc

They have been touting their exclusives. The main problem is that they likely don't have any new announcements. The fact that Phil Spencer is on Twitter talking about 'hmmm... Battletoads?" is a very clear hint that they don't have that much more new stuff to reveal in the short-term.

As for UI demo, this is just me being a pessimist, but I still think there's core parts of the original selling point of the UI that is simply not ready, to the extent that it can be shown in a live demo. Sony is very deliberate in keeping mum about their UI, but MS has been talking about their UI a lot... but not actually showing a live demo of it. That walkthrough promised is also delayed for like 2 weeks now.

And Kinect... Kinect has its own separate issues. You need to do a UI demo if you want to showcase the UI Kinect features, and you need games if you want to show Kinect-game features.

Guess what MS hasn't shown?

I think they're well aware, but they are somehow simply having difficulties in preparing something very solid to show us at the moment.

 

[Snubbers]

Our contacts have told us that memory reads on PS4 are 40-50 per cent quicker than Xbox One, and its ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) is around 50 per cent faster. One basic example we were given suggested that without optimisation for either console, a platform-agnostic development build can run at around 30FPS in 1920×1080 on PS4, but it’ll run at “20-something” FPS in 1600×900 on Xbox One. “Xbox One is weaker and it’s a pain to use its ESRAM,” concluded one developer.

That sounds just wrong on every level..

ALU? That's a really old term (Arithmetic and Logic Unit), they obviously meant CU (that's the only thing the XB1 it has 50% less of)..

Then you have an example with apparently 50% less resolution AND 50% less FPS.. in terms of system performance that's PS4 100% more powerful then XB1.. Awesome..

And of course, they appear to have not been able to use the ESRAM at all (if their example is to be believed)

LOL

 

[bishopcruz]

Because the most powerful console always has the best games and outsells the competition....Oh wait that never happens.

Super Famicom says hi.

 

[nib95]

Premature article is premature

But hey... let's take an article two months prior to launch and assume it to be a fact for the next five years!

Are you suggesting Microsoft and Sony are going to magically upgrade the hardware midway through the consoles life?

 

[driver116]

I feel that Sony have already nailed "seamless and fast" with Vita and Vita TV. Excuse the poor quality gif and camerawork but if they can do this on 2-3 year old handheld hardware then I am very much looking forward to what the PS4 is capable of.

Beautiful.

 

[JonathanPower]

Screw this political shit, make PS4 the lead console for development. I don't want Microsoft holding my games back!

I wonder if that's why Battlefield 4 for PS4 is 720p?! Microsoft may be throwing money EA's way for more than just timed exclusive dlc.

Well, they said the PS4 version runs at more than 720p and that the final resolution will be decided once the game is optimized, so I hope the game will be 1080p. In addition, the PS4 alpha build was the only console version they ever showed to the public. So the PS4 build was probably the only version that ran decently enough to be shown in an alpha state to the public. I think it would be very stupid to dumb down the PS4 version to 720p because in that case, it will look bad compared to a first party FPS like Killezone:SF that runs at native 1080p.

 

[moriquendi32]

I usually only browse though these types of threads but I am curious - is this sort of stuff really that important to many people? In some previous generations I've have the most powerful console, in others the least powerful. It's never been an issue for me. At the end of the day both consoles are considerably more powerful then their predecessors, and both will have great looking games. As has been said many times neither will look as good as PC games so if having the absolute best looking games is all that's important why not just buy a PC (and then make sure you get/build the highest end PC).

 

[PdotMichael]

Not sure why this matters. The most powerful console usually doesn't sell the best.

Is this some kind of nature law?

But yeah... Playatation sold more than the Sega Saturn and the Xbox sold more than the GameCube.

 

[hohoXD123]

Yep. It's a killer situation to be in.

It doesn't even stop there. They even fixed the controller issue and many people are saying it's now better than the X1. It's not even funny how much of an advantage Sony has now.

I usually only browse though these types of threads but I am curious - is this sort of stuff really that important to many people? In some previous generations I've have the most powerful console, in others the least powerful. It's never been an issue for me. At the end of the day both consoles are considerably more powerful then their predecessors, and both will have great looking games. As has been said many times neither will look as good as PC games so if having the absolute best looking games is all that's important why not just buy a PC (and then make sure you get/build the highest end PC).

Well if it's a choice of getting one or the other, knowing that multiplats will look better on the PS4 could be a tipping point for many people. As for PCs, the costs, headaches, and lack of choice for some multiplats will put people off.

 

[LittleJohnny]

Which doesn't really change anything though - If both systems are ripe for optimization, both will get even better performance. It goes both ways, remember.

But you know that one does far worse without being optimized because of the complicated eSram + move engines setup. How the PS3 got a free pass I will never understand, these exact comments were made early this gen re PS3 vs 360 multiplats, except I think the situation was worse since it wasn't only about optimizations but also a texture memory issue resulting in extremely bad ports like Splinter Cell where you can clearly see how blurry the game was in comparison.

Bottom line, XBO needs a hell of a lot more optimization, I think we discussed that plenty before this news broke out so no surprise, so lets not kid ourselves and assume that because the PS4 will do a lot better with unoptimized code using brute force, which I already discussed and most agreed in that thread about what differences to expect from multiplatform games, but lets not assume that after initial optimization that both will boost equally given the whole route that needs to be set up for esram.

 

[GQman2121]

This is one of those threads where you read the first 50 posts, and then jump to the last 50 just to have a laugh. And then leave and go back to the OT.

These articles speaking with devs are interesting though.

 

[Asd202]

Not sure why this matters. The most powerful console usually doesn't sell the best.

Because the most powerful one is also the most expensive but not in this case.

 

[46w500]

Assuming the Xbox platform even still exists in 7 years.

Is this a theoretical scenario you've made up in your mind that MicroSoft's gaming division is going to fold based on the specifications of systems that have yet to prove themselves in the market? It took Sega five system botches (if you include the Nomad) before they finally caved and went software only. And Sega's nowhere the giant corporation MicroSoft.

Your statement is rather unclear, though, this is just the way I interpreted it.

 

[Manmademan]

Ah man Tom. I used to think you were relatively plugged into the gaming industry.

sometimes I think I just might be y2Kev, posting in my sleep or something. I don't think I've ever disagreed with the dude on anything, ever.

 

[bearlabored]

I'm don't trust any information from EDGE after PS4 cover story.
This isn't journalism, too biased in my opinion.

 

[Megadragon15]

This reflects a poor understanding of industry history. Let me take you on a journey.

SNES vs. Genesis the SNES won outright and was the stronger console (though the genny was faster and cheaper, and had a definitive advantage in certain genres.)

SNES could never beat the Neo Geo in specs, which launched in the same year.

 

[Finalizer]

if i was running driveclub at that level of IQ/framerate, my first thoughts would be: "this game has some nice tech, but i really need to upgrade my GPU".

Best multiplatforms will be on PC though.

Meh.

If I really cared about a few extra pixels or random effects, I'd buy a PC.

PC master race threadshitting to stroke dat ego again.

oh dear.

 

[Dunlop]

I usually only browse though these types of threads but I am curious - is this sort of stuff really that important to many people?

Some yes, many others it is just console warrior d*ck wagging

Whether any of this makes a difference will only be known when final version multiplatform games start coming out

 

[Nozem]

I usually only browse though these types of threads but I am curious - is this sort of stuff really that important to many people? In some previous generations I've have the most powerful console, in others the least powerful. It's never been an issue for me. At the end of the day both consoles are considerably more powerful then their predecessors, and both will have great looking games. As has been said many times neither will look as good as PC games so if having the absolute best looking games is all that's important why not just buy a PC (and then make sure you get/build the highest end PC).

It's not about having the highest quality games, it's about having the better console.

It's called Console wars. PC's are irrelevant here.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Not sure why this matters. The most powerful console usually doesn't sell the best.

Lowest price one does though. And it matters for gameplay, graphics, framerate, ai, etc.

 

[IcyEyes]

Best multiplatforms will be on PC though.

Don't reply to these messages !!!

 

[idrinkalone]

In other news water is wet. The day Microsoft stops making halo is the day I stop buying their boxes. Otherwise I would just get a Sony and Nintendo console.

 

[maverick40]

I'm don't trust any information from EDGE after PS4 cover story.
This isn't journalism, too biased in my opinion.

Keep that tin foil hat On there buddy. Why would they bother releasing such a damning article if it wasn't true?

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Come on PC guys. You know this is a console discussion. Just stop. It's not a good look.

 

[Manmademan]

SNES could never beat the Neo Geo in specs, which launched in the same year.

did you miss the point where I mentioned that price point and system library ALSO matter?

The Neo was not competing with the SNES in either of those areas. The home console was simply a niche extension of their arcade platform.

 

[ghst]

That's not a terribly effective response, chap. I know I scratch-built a gaming PC on a budget a couple of years back and if it wasn't for a friend doing me a solid on a 5850 I'd never have scraped under £400. I'm guessing your PC is pretty damned tasty compared to mine (as I'm impressed by Drive Club) so I'm doubtful it was notably cheaper.

if you were some sycophantic sony junkie clawing at my face for bringing a little barbed perspective, i'd drag us both down into a fecal quagmire of spec/price slinging until both of our keyboards released an acid which burned our hands to stumps as a defensive measure.

as you're dave, a level headed guy who's excited about a new piece of kit, i'll just hope that you understand the difference between a PC and a bunch of PC parts rooted to proprietary firmware.

 

[szaromir]

Here we fucking go. GTFO

Why are you bitter about that?

Framerate, IQ, textures and so on. The point is that you're making an argument that is wrongly assuming that the 50% difference will be minimized because the devs won't bother with the PS4 version. That doesn't make any sense and it's pure wishful thinking. On the contrary, the fact that Xbone's hardware is a "pain in the ass" might make the difference even bigger for some not so skilled devs.

You can't expect twice the framerate, twice the resolution, twice the shadow resolution, twice the shader effects resolution and extra graphical features on top of that on hardware that is 40% more powerful. Obviously devs will use extra resources they have on PS4, it would be stupid not to. I expect the differences to be similar in multiplatform games to be similar to the differences that were found between Red Dead Redemption on 360 and PS3.

 

[maverick40]

Come on PC guys. You know this is a console discussion. Just stop. It's not a good look.

But they spent $1000 on a pc therefore they know more and are true gamers. Console peasants know nothing

 

[Dunlop]

Keep that tin foil hat On there buddy. Why would they bother releasing such a damning article if it wasn't true?

Because all of these damning articles are giving them clicks?

Edge has clearly chosen a "side"

Doesn't mean the article is wrong however, but I can't wait for real tech experts to chime in

 

[Finalizer]

And Kinect... Kinect has its own separate issues. You need to do a UI demo if you want to showcase the UI Kinect features, and you need games if you want to show Kinect-game features.

Guess what MS hasn't shown?

That's the one that gets me the most, really. Here we are with this expensive additional peripheral added in every box, probably the most controversial aspect left with the new Xbox, and I can't recall nary a live demo of the thing since the initial reveal back in May. I mean, maybe I just haven't kept up as well, but I would've thought there'd be some major demonstrations by now - it's probably the biggest hurdle left in convincing folks that, at this moment, the Xbone is worth its price, yet right now it feels like it's being treated like a red-headed stepchild that's just tagging along for the ride. And MS wants to convince people to buy this new console with every single one of them having the thing packed in?

Hopefully they'll be really showing it off as we close in on release when stuff starts nearing completion. Otherwise, I'll be left continuing to ask, "what's the point?"

 

[maverick40]

Because all of these damning articles are giving them clicks?

Edge has clearly chosen a "side"

Doesn't mean the article is wrong however, but I can't wait for real tech experts to chime in

Like who? Digital foundry?.....please. The devs themselves are not worthy anymore?

 

[Prince Vultan]

PC master race threadshitting for ego stroking again.

Seriously. Shit is beyond tiresome at this point, and I've only been posting here like a month.

 

[Enordash]

Here we fucking go. GTFO

So what exactly is the difference between the hardware spec argument with the consoles and the PC master race thing? It feels pretty similar to me: people forgetting about the other things each platform has to offer.

 

[Valentus]

If a company spends $400 million on a fucking exclusive NFL app, what makes you think they dont moneyhat devs so they don't make their PS4 version superior?

 

[twobear]

Is this a theoretical scenario you've made up in your mind that MicroSoft's gaming division is going to fold based on the specifications of systems that have yet to prove themselves in the market? It took Sega five system botches (if you include the Nomad) before they finally caved and went software only. And Sega's nowhere the giant corporation MicroSoft.

Your statement is rather unclear, though, this is just the way I interpreted it.

It's not as though the only thing that could lead us to believe that the Xbone will underperform is the specifications. We know that MS is more than willing to pull the plug on expensive flops (Zune, Kin), combined with pressure from the board to drop Xbone, and turmoil surrounding a new CEO, the possibility that Xbox will not survive this generation is now higher than ever.

 

[bearlabored]

Keep that tin foil hat On there buddy. Why would they bother releasing such a damning article if it wasn't true?

Well, it is called credibility.
I have 0 for them, and that's their fault.

 

[SmokyDave]

if you were some sycophantic sony junkie clawing at my face for bringing a little barbed perspective, i'd drag us both down into a fecal quagmire of spec/price slinging until both of our keyboards released an acid which burned our hands to stumps as a defensive measure.

I'm a Vita junky, so we can have half a sweaty throwdown if you fancy it? Obviously I won't have much mud to sling but at least you know my heart will be in it.

as you're dave, a level headed guy who's excited about a new piece of kit, i'll just hope that you understand the difference between a PC and a bunch of PC parts rooted to proprietary firmware.

Indeed. I compartmentalise my excitement according to my expectations for a given device. You should've seen me losing my shit over Killzone: Mercenaries. My missus actually pulled out the 'yes dear, that's lovely' line at one point.

 

[vcc]

I usually only browse though these types of threads but I am curious - is this sort of stuff really that important to many people? In some previous generations I've have the most powerful console, in others the least powerful. It's never been an issue for me. At the end of the day both consoles are considerably more powerful then their predecessors, and both will have great looking games. As has been said many times neither will look as good as PC games so if having the absolute best looking games is all that's important why not just buy a PC (and then make sure you get/build the highest end PC).

It's a value proposition. It's like the horse power rating on family sedans or the number of cup holders or airbags. The perception is more is better and if more is at the same price or cheaper then it's a better value no matter what you use it for.

For the money the PS4 will beat a new complete PC of the same price, while the XB1 will be close depending on the retailer (for instance best buy often inflated their PC prices). The high end on the PC is also not the average and both systems will be an upgrade for most people. My 3 year old core 2 duo gray box with a HD 6770 will take a back seat to a PS4 or XB1 for a while until I get a new system.

It's the same race with camera's where complicated but important things like the variety of lenses available get swept aside for a resolution and now contrast pissing match. When novice consumers look for somethign to buy they like the feeling of getting the 'best deal' which is usually the biggest number for the lowest price and complicated things like online infrastructure are often not considered.

 

[cyberheater]

It doesn't even stop there. They even fixed the controller issue and many people are saying it's now better than the X1. It's not even funny how much of an advantage Sony has now.

In 'merica where there is tight integration between tv services and Xbox One, MS have a chance. But in the rest of the world where 90% of these 'services' will never get released the Xbox One hasn't got a chance.

 

[Omni]

But why buy a machine that is $100 more to get less? I understand exclusives and all that, but that too is a Sony strong suit.

I've always been an Xbox person. I was considering switching over, but the prospect of losing my friends list, GT.. Etcetera... really kept me from doing so. I'm also one of the few here that is seemingly looking forward to Kinext.

Plus here in Australia it's only $50 more, and comes with Fifa - so price doesn't really matter. I can see myself buying a PS4 in a few years when their top exclusives start to come in, but it won't be before then - and certainly not because of power which has yet to be demonstrated. Xbox One games hold up to PS4 games (Killzone excluded), so this spec difference really isn't that much of a big deal, to me anyway, yet.

 

[Flatline]

Why are you bitter about that?


You can't expect twice the framerate, twice the resolution, twice the shadow resolution, twice the shader effects resolution and extra graphical features on top of that on hardware that is 40% more powerful. Obviously devs will use extra resources they have on PS4, it would be stupid not to. I expect the differences to be similar in multiplatform games to be similar to the differences that were found between Red Dead Redemption on 360 and PS3.

You're attacking a strawman, noone said they expect that. What they expect is 50% difference in performance whatever that means (Edge gave an example). On the other hand some people here are trying to convince themselves that the difference will be smaller because devs won't bother with the PS4 version as much, which is ridiculous to say the least.

 

[maverick40]

So what exactly is the difference between the hardware spec argument with the consoles and the PC master race thing? It feels pretty similar to me: people forgetting about the other things each platform has to offer.

I am not getting into this petty arguments, the pc gamers are shitting the thread as usual. This about the Xbox one and the PS4, literally nothing at all to do with pc so why bring it up for Dick measuring?

 

[BlackProdigy]

It's not as though the only thing that could lead us to believe that the Xbone will underperform is the specifications. We know that MS is more than willing to pull the plug on expensive flops (Zune, Kin), combined with pressure from the board to drop Xbone, and turmoil surrounding a new CEO, the possibility that Xbox will not survive this generation is now higher than ever.

You're reaching SO MUCH.

 

[bonus_sco]

Like who? Digital foundry?.....please. The devs themselves are not worthy anymore?

Their comments aren't worthy of consideration if they're openly discussing Xbox One performance without using the ESRAM. No one will ship a demanding game on Xbox One which doesn't use the ESRAM.

It's also not surprising to hear that the resolution and frame rate drops when you're clearly going to be bandwidth limited.

 

[vcc]

Is this a theoretical scenario you've made up in your mind that MicroSoft's gaming division is going to fold based on the specifications of systems that have yet to prove themselves in the market? It took Sega five system botches (if you include the Nomad) before they finally caved and went software only. And Sega's nowhere the giant corporation MicroSoft.

Your statement is rather unclear, though, this is just the way I interpreted it.

It might be a reference to the investors group that wanted Steve Balmer out (one of the most important Xbox supporters) and wanted to shut down the xbox brand or sell it off because it's been a net loss project and doesn't look as profitable as stuff like office, in the game space it's much harder to shut out competition and lock in customers.

 

[SmokyDave]

I am not getting into this petty arguments, the pc gamers are shitting the thread as usual. This about the Xbox one and the PS4, literally nothing at all to do with pc so why bring it up for Dick measuring?

Because it does give a certain degree of perspective, when articulated properly. It's a bit like wading into a biscuit argument carrying a cake. Or maybe a beer argument brandishing a vodka.

 

[Metra]

I don't care about fanboy war and I have zero knowledge about hardware specs (meaning that I can't critically analyse all those numbers and tell how big or small the gap between the consoles really is). That said, I don't usually post in threads like this one.

But I've seen some people posting about the possibility of multiplatform games being "downgraded" (or not optimized) for the PS4, due to X1's (supposed) weaker hardware. If true, that worries me.

I guess that I'll wait for tech reviews (like those at DF) to come out, before buying a multiplatform game. If there is any evidence that PS4's version is not "the best that it can be for the console", then I'll boycott that game's developer. I won't support devs that do such thing.