Support NeoGAF

[Zer0]

:lol

A shame most companies seem to rely on this mantra as well. Nintendo aren't the only guilty party.

It's a real shame too that Rockstar North haven't touched anything original since they set the world alight with GTA - besides two shitty games, and a series that relies upon violence to gain profit. This is coming from the company that created Lemmings and Unirally, two excellent and respected titles, as well as the awesome and very original Space Station Silicon Valley. No offence to their latest GTA as it is one of the better games I've played in years, but the truth needs to be stated in the sense that it's the same gameplay refined and retuned.

Other companies aren't immune to this disease: Square & Enix, Sega, id Software, Capcom, EA, Namco, Konami, Valve, Blizzard, Epic, etc etc.

As with everything concerned in business the companies are there to make money. Once they hit something that sells, they will pump it out constantly.

sorry but in those past years i have seen a lot of new ips.bully included

 

[hemtae]

sorry but in those past years i have seeh a lot of new ips.bully included

Bully was made by Rockstar Vancouver

 

[Zer0]

Bully was made by Rockstar Vancouver

still is rockstar

 

[Slavik81]

umm, no shit. I wonder how long it took the writer to come up with this "totally new idea".

The shear number of responses in this thread that totally miss the point of the article suggests that it's not as obvious as you'd think.

 

[Flakster99]

All I've seen is Nintendo making a few dumbed down, generic games that are far worse than their average titles, doing little if anything to prove the worth of motion sensing aside from facilitating the oversimplification of games, and, in their only internally produced games worth playing, which constitute the majority of Wii's quality games, continuing to reuse the same IPs that have existed for 20 years now.

I won't touch what I bolded, as it your opinion. However, the last portion of your post is ignorant and asinine.

If Sony and or Microsoft had the Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, etc etc etc IP's, you would have to be retarded to believe they wouldn't use these IP's for their own respective purposes.

And the reverse is also true. If Nintendo had the Halo and GT IP's, you can bet your ass each respective series would continue.

 

[Crushed]

The shear number of responses

That's a lot of sheep!

 

[dead souls]

If ps3 had Wii Metroid and MArio Galaxy I would not need a Wii.

Nintendo will not make mature games, as well as Disney is not making mature movies.

As for third parties, they are surely evaluating the Wii, but not really for providing the same games as on the HD market.

Nintendo obviously goes for the all-ages appeal with their franchises. This has always allowed them to have great sales for their titles, even when their systems aren't huge sellers, and I see no reason why they would or should change now.

What's making me lol in this thread is all the posts about "mature" games. What are all of you talking about? No mature videogames exist. Most, if not all, M-Rated games are infinitely more childish than a Mario or Zelda game.

The "mature" games are the ones with a very limited appeal demographically and the overwhelming focus on them, if not changed, will always prevent the industry from gaining mainstream acceptance.

 

[hemtae]

still is rockstar

The person you quoted was talking about Rockstar North which had nothing to do with Bully.

According to wikipedia, the last new IP that Rockstar North did was Manhunt in 2003

 

[[Nintex]]

What's making me lol in this thread is all the posts about "mature" games. What are all of you talking about? No mature videogames exist. Most, if not all, M-Rated games are infinitely more childish than a Mario or Zelda game.

I agree, although I like the so called Mature games but I always relate them to my childhood:

Kids running around with plastic guns = COD4, Resistance, HALO 3, "hardcore"
Kids playing with cars = GT5P, Forza 2, PGR4, "hardcore"
Kids playing with cars, plastic guns and police cars = GTA IV, "hardcore"

The more "Mature" games, are Suda's games. His games have more blood, politics and sex than all other games combined. But he had to tone it down a bit for No More Heroes because gamers got confused with Killer 7. I think that now that gaming is mainstream developers should do more with "mature" topics next to guns 'n cars. Only a few videogames try to evolve beyond the "game" thing we've been playing for years and the series that tried to work with more "mature" content don't exist anymore or are changed for the "press a button, something cool happens" audience.

I hate it that most developers build the same games. We used to have Mario 64 rip-offs and now we have millions of braindead FPS games. Only a few developers really try something new and they mostly use the mechanics that are already used in other titles. The so called "Revolution" is a new control scheme which will be considered normal after a few years and "HD gaming" is only about the presentation of the games and not about the actual content.

If I'm ever going to build my own game it'll be something different, it may suck but at least I didn't copy the same shit we've been playing for years and we will be playing for years to come.

 

[bigmakstudios]

I won't touch what I bolded, as it your opinion. However, the last portion of your post is ignorant and asinine.

If Sony and or Microsoft had the Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, etc etc etc IP's, you would have to be retarded to believe they wouldn't use these IP's for their own respective purposes.

And the reverse is also true. If Nintendo had the Halo and GT IP's, you can bet your ass each respective series would continue.

Microsoft and Sony are constantly developing new IPs, either internally or contracted externally, to complement their already existing IPs. Nintendo doesn't do that nearly as often.

 

[Tiktaalik]

The article is basically true, but isn't it sort of ignoring market forces? Developers already complain that one of the main reasons that they are weary of developing for Nintendo systems is because they have to go up against Nintendo, which is serious competition. I feel like a lot of developers probably ignore the kiddy audience because you really can't beat Nintendo in their arena. If Nintendo was ever to abandon this market, then I can't believe that other developers wouldn't walk into that market and try to own it.

I don't believe that other developers are unable to make that simple, entry level gamer type game. I would actually argue that the PS1 Spyro The Dragon games were equals to Mario 64 in this regard.

 

[No Means Nomad]

I'm pretty sure more kids in America played Halo than Mario Galaxy somehow.

 

[Golden Darkness]

I'm pretty sure more kids in America played Halo than Mario Galaxy somehow.

An unfortunate reality, to be frank.

 

[SapientWolf]

Well, I don't know about most of you, but I think game-play-oriented experiences (i.e. Nintendo, etc.) are more "complex" than most AAA killer-apps!!! (i.e. Gears of War, CoD4, etc.)

I agree. Moving and shooting in 3D is actually a pretty limited skillset.

Many in our generation started with Super Mario Bros., while children today may look back at Super Mario Galaxy as the beginning of their rabid interest in video games.

I think gamers are underestimating how long it took to "get" gaming in 3D. Mario Galaxy requires the ability to navigate a 3D space as it rotates and changes perspective. Most newcomers I know cannot even comprehend how to get from A to B, let alone tackle the challenges in the game. I would start a complete newbie on sidescrollers and top down games, and introduce them to 3D with a more forgiving game (like Boom Blox).

 

[Concept17]

All I've seen is Nintendo making a few dumbed down, generic games that are far worse than their average titles, doing little if anything to prove the worth of motion sensing aside from facilitating the oversimplification of games, and, in their only internally produced games worth playing, which constitute the majority of Wii's quality games, continuing to reuse the same IPs that have existed for 20 years now.

This is the exact reason I don't own a Wii. That and I don't care for waggle.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[SapientWolf]

All I've seen is Nintendo making a few dumbed down, generic games that are far worse than their average titles, doing little if anything to prove the worth of motion sensing aside from facilitating the oversimplification of games, and, in their only internally produced games worth playing, which constitute the majority of Wii's quality games, continuing to reuse the same IPs that have existed for 20 years now.

You need to read Nintendo's Genre Innovation Strategy: Thoughts on the Revolution's new controller before you make any more posts in this thread. It summarizes Nintendo's overarching strategy in a way that's easy to understand and applies across several generations.

 

[MisterHero]

This is the exact reason I don't own a Wii. That and I don't care for waggle.

Couldn't agree more.

Ha you play RPGs

 

[Slavik81]

That's a lot of sheep!

 

[Oblivion]

still is rockstar

:lol

 

[a.wd]

I think it is a very good point, Nintendo as the Doctor Seuss of the gaming world. Introducing generation after generation into gameplaying. yes they maqy not innovate as much as they used to but they don't have to. They have a technique and a formula and it works they are constantly bringing new gamers into gaming and surely that is the most important point?

 

[Flakster99]

Microsoft and Sony are constantly developing new IPs, either internally or contracted externally, to complement their already existing IPs. Nintendo doesn't do that nearly as often.

Do you mean Microsoft and Sony developing new IP's that you have enjoyed and or prefer to those that Nintendo have created?

In general, I agree with your above post, but something tells me you're excluding what Nintendo has created software wise on the DS, and much of the original Wii _____ Nintendo created catalog. Horrible dodge.

Also, none of what you posted takes away from what I said. Which was:

If Sony and or Microsoft had the Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, etc etc etc IP's, you would have to be retarded to believe they wouldn't use these IP's for their own respective purposes.

And the reverse is also true. If Nintendo had the Halo and GT IP's, you can bet your ass each respective series would continue.

Which is obvious, and in relation to the big 3 console manufacturers, a needed cash cow to sustain their respective current and future marketplace.

I happen to believe Nintendo has improved in striking a more balanced released schedule, between developing not only new IP's and dipping into their huge back catalog of mascots, in turn giving it's fanbase what they want, but between both the DS and the Wii.

 

[M3d10n]

Sony and Microsoft (apparently) develop new IPs more often than Nintendo because they need to find more things that stick to the wall, like Nintendo did in the past, not due to some higher consideration and aversion to "whoring".

Keep in mind that neither Sony nor MS have a mascot of their own that they can stick in so many different games from different genres and move units. They'd promptly do so if they ever got hands in such IP.

 

[Threi]

Keep in mind that neither Sony nor MS have a mascot of their own that they can stick in so many different games from different genres and move units. They'd promptly do so if they ever got hands in such IP.

Well MS has Master Chief.

 

[Tideas]

:lol

A shame most companies seem to rely on this mantra as well. Nintendo aren't the only guilty party.

Other companies aren't immune to this disease: Square & Enix, Sega, id Software, Capcom, EA, Namco, Konami, Valve, Blizzard, Epic, etc etc.

As with everything concerned in business the companies are there to make money. Once they hit something that sells, they will pump it out constantly.

Eh?

Square & Enix : Kingdom Hearts, Radiate Stories, Itadaki Street, The world Ends with you, etc etc

What u talkin about?

 

[JKBii]

I'm pretty sure more kids in America played Halo than Mario Galaxy somehow.

And I'm sure more kids play Pokemon than either of them.

 

[Crushed]

Eh?

Square & Enix : Kingdom Hearts, Radiate Stories, Itadaki Street, The world Ends with you, etc etc

What u talkin about?

Kingdom Hearts: already three games released, not including the Final Mix of KHII. Three more games in development, possibly four.
Radiata Stories: tri-Ace developed, S-E only published.
Itadaki Street: Has been around since the Famicom. The DS game is the 7th in the series.
The World Ends With You: Congratulations, one whole new IP that hasn't been whored.

I'd love to see these "etcs" too!

 

[The Faceless Master]

Well MS has Master Chief.

well, when they start making Chief Warthog Racer, Chief Battle and Chief Celebration...

The World Ends With You: Congratulations, one whole new IP that hasn't been whored.

they haven't had enough time yet...

 

[bigmakstudios]

Sony and Microsoft (apparently) develop new IPs more often than Nintendo because they need to find more things that stick to the wall, like Nintendo did in the past, not due to some higher consideration and aversion to "whoring".

Keep in mind that neither Sony nor MS have a mascot of their own that they can stick in so many different games from different genres and move units. They'd promptly do so if they ever got hands in such IP.

I don't think so. Sure, if certain exclusive franchises enjoy continued success, then they'll likely fund or develop future entries in those series, but I doubt they would stop creating original series, as Nintendo has. They seem to have a mantra of making their video game libraries as varied as possible, and only developing sequels in a few select series would be counter to that.
Also, to the person who said I shouldn't ignore the Wii series, I disagree. I ignore the Wii Series because I can't fathom how anyone could find merit in Wii Sports. I've already explained why countless times though, so I don't really feel like doing it again.

 

[SovanJedi]

Eh?

Square & Enix : Kingdom Hearts, Radiate Stories, Itadaki Street, The world Ends with you, etc etc

What u talkin about?

Something something Final Fantasy.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Nobody is calling for Nintendo to stop making the Marios and Zeldas of the world [well, the sane ones at least don't]. At worst, I see people calling for them to expand their gaming line-up that do appeal to older players.

Nintendo has profits out of their asshole, why not, you know, use some of that money to make a broader range of games? Shocking, I know.

it's strange that someone wants a narrowly targeted game on their demographic is using the term "broader range" to describe this desire.

 

[Proven]

still is rockstar

I was just going to pop in and post "You are an idiot." But I decided to calm down and think for a bit and try to see it from your point of you.

So now I'll just call you ignorant, as the difference between Rockstar North and Rockstar Vancouver is a hell of a lot more than the difference between Nintendo EAD1 and Nintendo EAD2. Weren't you here when Bioshock was released?

 

[bigmakstudios]

it's strange that someone wants a narrowly targeted game on their demographic is using the term "broader range" to describe this desire.

I believe his rationale is that by adding new games to their repertoire, they'll foster interest from people who aren't hooked by their infinite array of Mario, Zelda, and Metroid titles or their newly discovered standby, the non-games/casual games.

 

[Anth]

yes they maqy not innovate as much as they used to but they don't have to.

How so? Both the DS and the Wii are radical breaks from tradition, and Nintendo tends to make many of the games that take the most advantage of the new features. It doesn't get much more innovative than Kirby Canvas Course.

Edit:

I believe his rationale is that by adding new games to their repertoire, they'll foster interest from people who aren't hooked by their infinite array of Mario, Zelda, and Metroid titles or their newly discovered standby, the non-games/casual games.

I'm not sure if Nintendo can make anything that would target the traditional gamer crowd better than Smash Brothers or Mario Galaxy. Sure, you have the guys who will only ever play GTA and one or two random shooters, but I don't think that group would buy a Wii, even if there were a good shooter out for it. Contrary to what Shiggy says, I don't think they could make Halo.

 

[Tideas]

Kingdom Hearts: already three games released, not including the Final Mix of KHII. Three more games in development, possibly four.
Radiata Stories: tri-Ace developed, S-E only published.
Itadaki Street: Has been around since the Famicom. The DS game is the 7th in the series.
The World Ends With You: Congratulations, one whole new IP that hasn't been whored.

I'd love to see these "etcs" too!

We're talking about new IPs are we not?

Kingdom Hearts was a new IP for the PS2. Does it matter who develop what? If they're funding the new IP, that's their new IP. If Nintendo funds a new IP, and let someone else outside develop it, ti's still a new IP that they're willing to invest in.

Drakengard.

Last Remnant

Project Sylpheed

 

[GamerSoul]

Heh, I remember reading something awhile ago that related Nintendo and its growing gamers in the past. We started with Mario as little kids, but as we got older we wanted something "cooler", fast, and edgy: We got Sonic The Hedgehog. Than those older kids began to turn into teenagers with the hormones and such: We got Lara Croft.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Crushed]

We're talking about new IPs are we not?

Kingdom Hearts was a new IP for the PS2. Does it matter who develop what? If they're funding the new IP, that's their new IP. If Nintendo funds a new IP, and let someone else outside develop it, ti's still a new IP that they're willing to invest in.

Drakengard.

Last Remnant

Project Sylpheed

KH has been whored out already, it's not new anymore.


Last Remnant is the only thing on there that S-E has actually developed. And YES, it does matter.

 

[BocoDragon]

So Nintendo is Joe Camel?

 

[MisterHero]

People complaining about Mario being "whored out" now clearly have never lived in the 80s/early 90s.

Even then the products were excellent. I miss the Super Mario Bros. Super Show. and the Valiant Comics stories.

 

[Proven]

We're talking about new IPs are we not?

Kingdom Hearts was a new IP for the PS2. Does it matter who develop what? If they're funding the new IP, that's their new IP. If Nintendo funds a new IP, and let someone else outside develop it, ti's still a new IP that they're willing to invest in.

Drakengard.

Last Remnant

Project Sylpheed

Since around Kingdom Hearts? Want to be lax on developers?

Pikmin

Battalion Wars

Toon Link

Chibi Robo

Hotel Dusk

Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents

Daigasso! Band Brothers

Endless Ocean

And then there's genre bending I want to include, like the Prime series, the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series, and the Pokemon Ranger series, but you'd probably consider those unfair. Hell, you probably consider Toon Link out of bounds.

 

[bigmakstudios]

Since around Kingdom Hearts? Want to be lax on developers?

Pikmin

Battalion Wars

Toon Link

Chibi Robo

Hotel Dusk

Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents

Daigasso! Band Brothers

Endless Ocean

And then there's genre bending I want to include, like the Prime series, the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series, and the Pokemon Ranger series, but you'd probably consider those unfair. Hell, you probably consider Toon Link out of bounds.

Pikmin is agreeable. Battallion Wars is a no. Nintendo considers it an expansion of the Advance Wars series. Toon Link? WTF? Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass are entries in the Legend of Zelda series whose only unique attributes are sailing and a cel-shaded art style. That isn't a new IP. Band Brothers hasn't even been released anywhere outside of Japan, and I would consider it along with Elite Beat Agents, Endless Ocean, and Hotel Dusk to fall under Nintendo's new line of casual games.
btw, I think that nitpicking over individual titles is ridiculous, but if it's necessary to refute the belief that Nintendo creates just as many new "traditional" IPs as any other developer, then so be it.

 

[Proven]

Pikmin is agreeable. Battallion Wars is a no. Nintendo considers it an expansion of the Advance Wars series. Toon Link? WTF? Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass are entries in the Legend of Zelda series whose only unique attributes are sailing and a cel-shaded art style. That isn't a new IP. Band Brothers hasn't even been released anywhere outside of Japan, and I would consider it along with Elite Beat Agents, Endless Ocean, and Hotel Dusk to fall under Nintendo's new line of casual games.
btw, I think that nitpicking over individual titles is ridiculous, but if it's necessary to refute the belief that Nintendo creates just as many new "traditional" IPs as any other developer, then so be it.

But why create new IPs for genres they already have IPs established in? It makes perfect business sense to make new IPs for new game types they've never tried before (Pikmin), or revitalize older IPs into new genres they've never ventured into before (Metroid Prime). For genres they've already come well into, like platformers, sports, and even RPGs, why change the already used IP when they can make a sequel unless either the previous attempt bombed or they're trying a new spin on it?

What kind of "traditional" titles are you looking for?

 

[Core407]

Nintendo isn't in the videogame market.

 

[Crushed]

Band Brothers hasn't even been released anywhere outside of Japan, and I would consider it along with Elite Beat Agents, Endless Ocean, and Hotel Dusk to fall under Nintendo's new line of casual games.

So now Band Brothers, EBA/Ouendan, Endless Ocean, and Hotel Dusk are one IP. And they're all casual games.


That's an interesting way to distort reality. Don't even try to disguise it, just flat out admit that you're cheating and ignoring facts to fit your own views.

 

[Flakster99]

Pikmin is agreeable. Battallion Wars is a no. Nintendo considers it an expansion of the Advance Wars series. Toon Link? WTF? Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass are entries in the Legend of Zelda series whose only unique attributes are sailing and a cel-shaded art style. That isn't a new IP. Band Brothers hasn't even been released anywhere outside of Japan, and I would consider it along with Elite Beat Agents, Endless Ocean, and Hotel Dusk to fall under Nintendo's new line of casual games.
btw, I think that nitpicking over individual titles is ridiculous, but if it's necessary to refute the belief that Nintendo creates just as many new "traditional" IPs as any other developer, then so be it.

Which is precisely what you're doing. You're nitpicking, and said games mentioned in your post do not meet your selected criteria.
You're coming off as a troll, which is a shame. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[bigmakstudios]

So now Band Brothers, EBA/Ouendan, Endless Ocean, and Hotel Dusk are one IP. And they're all casual games.


That's an interesting way to distort reality. Don't even try to disguise it, just flat out admit that you're cheating and ignoring facts to fit your own views.

I never said they were all a single game. I just feel that they can't be listed as games that Nintendo has developed that are targeted toward their "hardcore" demographic.

Which is precisely what you're doing. You're nitpicking, and said games mentioned in your post do not meet your selected criteria.

Well, I mentioned that I find nitpicking over single titles to be a little ridiculous because I thought the general trend of Nintendo not creating new "hardcore" IPs to be fairly apparent, and dissecting each individual title seems redundant because, while some games they've created might be bordering on "hardcore", they're surely not nearly as close to the standard convention of a game as Super Mario Galaxy or Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, for instance.
But I do agree that I should probably stop posting in this thread. >_> There are millions of people that like Brain Age and Wii Sports and wouldn't ever consider them lousy enough to be disregarded completely. But yeah, to be honest, I guess I'm just bitter because as much as I loved Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess, I wish Nintendo wasn't so conservative with "hardcore" games, and I try to like Wii Sports, but I just can't, and I resent that much of Nintendo's output in the future will be composed of games of its ilk rather than new IPs that are on par with the latest entries of their main "hardcore" series, without the slightly stale feeling of a 20 year old series. I like Mario and Zelda games, but I don't think I'll ever buy a Nintendo system again unless they plan to produce new series in addition to their mainstays. I guess I should be writing this on livejournal or myspace or something lawl.

 

[Crushed]

I never said they were all a single game.

No, but you said they were all the same "line of casual games" which is incredibly inaccurate and misleading.

I just feel that they can't be listed as games that Nintendo has developed that are targeted toward Nintendo's "hardcore" demographic.

Endless Ocean is pretty much the only one of those titles that IS a casual game. Hotel Dusk, Daigasso! Band Brothers, and EBA/Ouendan are casual? Really?

Hell, Band Brothers was started for the GBA in 2001, years before Nintendo started talking about "casual" gaming.

 

[M3d10n]

Heh, the article is totally aimed at bigmakstudios. It's cute how he keeps arguing that Nintendo should've grown and embraced shooters and otherwise "hardcore" gaming when the whole point of the article is to outline why they don't do it, and that it could probably do more harm than good for the industry.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Those comments from bigmakstudios is precisely what this article means with people who think Nintendo should have grown up with the public. All these comments about rehashes and never changing something with their games is the ultimate example.

And it's even more baffling now that they are enjoying their best success...due to a whole lineup of new type of games. I never saw these casual games before this. But people will hold on to the idea of Nintendo trying anything new. They just aren't trying anything new that you like.

 

[Flakster99]

Well, I mentioned that I find nitpicking over single titles to be a little ridiculous because I thought the general trend of Nintendo not creating new "hardcore" IPs to be fairly apparent, and dissecting each individual title seems redundant because, while some games they've created might be bordering on "hardcore", they're surely not nearly as close to the standard convention of a game as Super Mario Galaxy or Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, for instance.
But I do agree that I should probably stop posting in this thread. >_> There are millions of people that like Brain Age and Wii Sports and wouldn't ever consider them lousy enough to be disregarded completely. But yeah, to be honest, I guess I'm just bitter because as much as I loved Super Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess, I wish Nintendo wasn't so conservative with "hardcore" games, and I try to like Wii Sports, but I just can't, and I resent that much of Nintendo's output in the future will be composed of games of its ilk rather than new IPs that are on par with the latest entries of their main "hardcore" series, without the slightly stale feeling of a 20 year old series. I like Mario and Zelda games, but I don't think I'll ever buy a Nintendo system again unless they plan to produce new series in addition to their mainstays. I guess I should be writing this on livejournal or myspace or something lawl.

Your tastes have changed, bigmakstudios, nothing wrong with that.

And not that you need my validation or approval, but here is a post I can get behind that does not belittle or unnecessarily dismiss the competition due to having different tastes and goals and ideas. Solid post.

 

[jarrod]

Project Sylpheed

Er, not only is this not SE's IP, the series has been around since the mid 1980s.


I'd also be wary of calling Kingdom Hearts a "new IP" in the classic sense, given it's loaded with half century old Disney licenses and Final Fantasy fanservice.