I'm new be nice
Member
5 or 6 hours if i'm crazy... My face stays marked for awhile, but my eyes feel oddly natural.
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Elite Dangerous: Horizons |OT| Just scratching the surface
- Thread starter Anton Sugar
- Start date
5 or 6 hours if i'm crazy... My face stays marked for awhile, but my eyes feel oddly natural.
Caesar III
Member
Haha one day we went out to friends and I forgot about it until my girlfriend said we need to go. I showed up with the mask still visible on my face
I'm kind of dissapointed with this. Apart from the fact some missions dont work. It seems like space flight hasnt advanced from games 20 years ago. A dull just functional cockpit where most of the information is stuck in lists(no zoom, no multiple camera, or view types). The UI's in general are just confusing mess. Stupid decisions like where you jump in to solar systems right next the star(and generally dumb decisions it would seem from the forums, it is possible for carebears and everyone else to exist and have fun in the same game). I guess I'll leave it in a few months and see if its improved.
Anton Sugar
Member
Your complaints are a little vague, but I don't think what you're complaining about (like, the entire ship UI) is going to be "improved" in a few months. Not sure what's so bad about jumping in next to a star, either.
I didn't want to go into to much detail as didn't want to annoy and unless devs are listening there's no point.
But with the jumping in right next to the star first, I nearly got fried. Also it's strategically a bad idea(can tell they've done it for visual impact) but with other players, they could make it very difficult for you. Plus it makes it difficult to travel to other places in the solar system as it blocks direct routes to a large proportion. Also the map of the solar system isnt good, there's no spacial awareness with the system. I cant get an accurate image of the solar system(unless I'm mistaken) so I could travel to each corner of it or search it systematically.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Jumping next to a star is great. All you have to do is turn the stick and bam, you're no longer pointed at it. Unless you walked away during a jump, it's simple to redirect. The up side is if you are low on fuel (and have a scoop) you can instantly start replenishing, so you don't have to bog down your trip with extra flight time TOO the star. And what you don't seem to realize is that you are going REALLY fast. Just point at an angle from the star and within 10 seconds you'll be far enough past it you can point at the stuff on the other side. Heck a whole orbit while scooping only takes a few seconds.
Yeah they definitely took away my close Hazardous. There are only High, Low, and normal RES there now.
I do not understand why Frontier makes asinine decisions like that. There is no other reason to take it away. The only reason I could possibly see is that looked at it and went "Oh, there is a Hazardous RES so close to the station, we don't want players making trips back and forth too quickly, do we?" It feels like they just took it out to add more frustrating delay to whatever you are doing. It's not like you are walking home with 20 mil an hour. Decisions like that frustrate me to no end. To a lesser extent, the Robigo nerf is also frustrating, but I can understand nerfing the numbers some, but there needs to be a reward for going all the way out there with a ship that can hold cargo. Getting there takes some time, as well as the trip back and the high risk of getting scanned and losing everything.
I love the game, but goddamn Frontier, why do you have to actively turn things into longer grinds?
To put this in perspective, the system I am talking about is Gender. The Hazardous RES (and all the other ones) are just a few Ls away from Baliunas Hub. I don't know of any other system that has one that close. Most of them are a few hundred or thousand from the station.
I really hope this removal was just a bug and is fixed, but something tells me it was intentional.
Caesar III
Member
God damnit, why can't you do anything when hyper jumping. I HATE THE WAIT! Let me check status in the menues at least.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
God damnit, why can't you do anything when hyper jumping. I HATE THE WAIT! Let me check status in the menues at least.
How long do jumps take for you? I'd be worried about checking menus because I'd end up crashing into the star. Must stay vigilant.
Fun bugs for the XBox version! Sky box textures will mess up making it look like we're being invaded by the static distortion dimension. Eventually it'll crash when it happens. And sometimes the game won't recognize my Horizons expansion and won't let me land on planets unless I restart.
Because it is loading.God damnit, why can't you do anything when hyper jumping. I HATE THE WAIT! Let me check status in the menues at least.
If you have ever played Bayonetta, on the loading screens you can practice combos, but you can't look at your inventory or weapons or anything. In Elite, being able to look around is just like that.
frontieruk
Member
Yeah a lot of people are having the horizons issue.
I was thinking about what would be a mega tonne announcement for the big three console makers and I thought to myself what if MS secured ED exclusivity for the entire Horizons pass? MS have sort of given up on talking about numbers on the platform but more about volume with player engagement, ED is a slow burner on console but watching the number of ppl on my friends list increase playing it and it's grind nature would be a good match for their goals.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Uh oh, my mission was redirected to that remote outpost $##altDestinationStationSystemName. The worst scum hole of the universe...
I got one of my coworkers to buy it. They need a referral program!
I got one of my coworkers to buy it. They need a referral program!
Reckheim
Member
I'd be more beneficial for ED to release it on the ps4 as well (if its easy enough to do so), that's a huge number of players they are currently not reaching.
I'm new be nice
Member
Yeah, I only use it at night before I go to bed for that reason. People say the Rift is light, and I've never used other hmds, but I still find it a tad fatiguing to wear, all things considered.Haha one day we went out to friends and I forgot about it until my girlfriend said we need to go. I showed up with the mask still visible on my face
I hope as time goes they'll continue to work on the weight.
Long since confirmed, just not quite done cooking yet.
I'm kind of expecting news about a PS4 port during E3. At least I think that would be a good timing if they can make it. NMS will raise the awareness of space games in the near future and Elite could ride on that wave of popularity a bit and provide PS4 gamers with more space fodder.
A pros pos player engagement, Frontier was pretty proud of the average time players spend in ED according to Steam statistics. But I'm a bit cynical towards those measures in terms of Elite myself. If you want to meet up with friends and you happen to be in combat ships and some 200+ly away from your meeting point, you may spend upwards of 20 minutes cycling through loading screens. Even in the bubble where speeding up travel times would imo be very welcome. I've lamented this more than once, but there are more such grindy time waster mechanics in Elite. Of course, those people who put up with it will spend more time on average than in other games. Previously ranking up in the Fed/Imperial military could mean spending some 24 hours in real time just sitting in a station, hopping through modes and clicking through menus! I don't know if it's any worse or better since 2.1...
Caesar III
Member
since I use a rift I CA just look left and right. And when the jump is ready an audio queue notifies it to look back to the front
it's the countdown and additional 6 seconds for me.I know. When speed exploring (not scanning every star/planet) it really sucks. Let me check my stats to the right... Let me take a glance on my materials in those seconds. Would be so easy to not block them to begin with.
Any idea if the game loads faster within this hyper jumps when on ssd?
That's the "in universe" explanation. Which is also why you jump to a main star and the proposed micro jumps would work between the stars of a system and not any planet.
If you've played the game for any length, ending up at a system's main star after the jump is a non issue. Yes, you need to be awake and alert to not fry yourself, but hey, you need to be awake in any game with a chance of dying to not, you know, die.
Navigation is also a non issue. It takes some 3-5 seconds to steer into a path that lets you not crash into the star and then another couple of seconds to circle around so you can travel to your desired destination. Which is usually time well spend by fuel scooping, which you'll have to do anyway, so dropping you at the gas station (potentially, as you can't scoop all types of stars) is a very sensible thing to do. The time spend there is usually negligible compared to the time you'll spend actually travelling to your specific destination in the system. The answer here is simply a polemic "git gud!"/spend some more time with it and it won't bother you anymore. This is very much true. The map is only funcitonal for identifying types of planets and which body orbits which or for selecting a target, but not for identyfying their locations. It also loads horribly slowly every time you open it and doesn't seem to cache after opening it once. The orrery system map is supposed to be coming, but there's no ETA unfortunately. There's hope, but it may take quiet long. Some things in the system map are relatively obvious placeholders. Take the asteroid cluster graphics in the system map for example, which are low resolution 2d images, while all bodies are 3D objects. Or the planet surface graphics which are barely more than a wireframe, whereas one would expect the surface features to be displayed...
I'm also having the issue of Horizons not being recognized as bought. Missed out on a million credit mission because of it. Even after restarting the game, after a few system jumps the game reverts back to me not owning Horizons. Might delete and reinstall the game. See if that helps. Another friend playing has had the same issue too.
frontieruk
Member
Is being reported on the official forums so doubtful a reinstall will help
Add your tales of woe here
Caesar III
Member
Wat would be great is if you are in a system and you want to explore in a general direction because the "horizon" does look interesting, that you can press a button and get the next best system in that direction. So you do not need the galaxy map at all. Just fly in the general direction in every system.
Anton Sugar
Member
Cool peek behind the curtain on how the "blue zone" flight and turning mechanics work:
Great post and agreed on all accounts, esp the orrery map :-|
That's the "in universe" explanation. Which is also why you jump to a main star and the proposed micro jumps would work between the stars of a system and not any planet.
If you've played the game for any length, ending up at a system's main star after the jump is a non issue. Yes, you need to be awake and alert to not fry yourself, but hey, you need to be awake in any game with a chance of dying to not, you know, die.
This is very much true. The map is only funcitonal for identifying types of planets and which body orbits which or for selecting a target, but not for identyfying their locations. It also loads horribly slowly every time you open it and doesn't seem to cache after opening it once. The orrery system map is supposed to be coming, but there's no ETA unfortunately. There's hope, but it may take quiet long. Some things in the system map are relatively obvious placeholders. Take the asteroid cluster graphics in the system map for example, which are low resolution 2d images, while all bodies are 3D objects. Or the planet surface graphics which are barely more than a wireframe, whereas one would expect the surface features to be displayed...
Great post and agreed on all accounts, esp the orrery map :-|
Posted this thread on FD's forums about materials and how we get them :
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=262740&p=4055118#post4055118
What do you guys think? *please comment there so we can get the discussion going*
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=262740&p=4055118#post4055118
What do you guys think? *please comment there so we can get the discussion going*
"Dear Frontier, please stop wasting player time, remove silly limits and fix bugs" by Kornelius Briedis
He's pretty spot on here. With Engineers, you can see even more of Frontier's frustrating game design. I wanted to be able to upgrade my ships, but having it turned into a grind takes the entire fun out of it. He made a really good point in saying he wants to see a stream with David Braben playing and doing all of this grinding, and explaining how this is fun.
Like I talked about a few posts up, they took away a Hazardous RES in my home system that was a few Ls from the station I have all my ships in. I feel like they did that just because it was too convenient. I know this sounds a bit like some Dale Gribble conspiracy theory, but given Frontier's behavior on these things, it makes total sense. They did that for the sake of making the process of going to make money via bounty hunting take longer, dragging out the time it takes a player to amass a high amount of credits. It's frustrating, it isn't fun, it doesn't balance the game more or anything like that.
There are some other things I wish they would add in the game, which I feel like should be standard in a game like this. Why can't you transfer money to other players? The only real way to do that is to go somewhere and swap cargo via ejecting it and the other person picking it up. Background simulation is good, and I like the idea of factions going to war, combat zones, and facing other players there. All of that is actually fun, but then these things fall short with the omission of things like trading goods for credits among other players.
Better yet, why not let players sell Engineered modules? Maybe they got something that isn't incredibly useful to their ship, but useful to someone else. It's also frustrating that some of the materials have to go in cargo spaces. You have a Fer-De-Lance? Better put some cargo racks on that thing! Oh, you wanted to upgrade the stuff you had to replace for the cargo racks? Too bad you're luck.
Frontier, if somehow by small chance, you were reading this: I love this game, but it could be so much better. The space flight and combat are spot on and excellent. Driving on planets is fun. The background simulation is pulled off pretty well. The atmosphere in the game is unparalleled. Grinding is not necessary for balance though! I understand not wanting to hand everyone the keys to the kingdom instantly, and that's fine. However when you make us jump through hoops like collecting materials we may or not need in our 600 slots, when there are so many more materials, or removing convenient RES, or taking out a good smuggling mission source, it just makes things less fun.
I will still continue to play, but that does not mean I am not frustrated with these kinds of things. I really want to see what Star Citizen brings to the table regarding this, whenever it's eventual release is. Frontier, this could all be so much better, the power is in your hands to fix this.
He's pretty spot on here. With Engineers, you can see even more of Frontier's frustrating game design. I wanted to be able to upgrade my ships, but having it turned into a grind takes the entire fun out of it. He made a really good point in saying he wants to see a stream with David Braben playing and doing all of this grinding, and explaining how this is fun.
Like I talked about a few posts up, they took away a Hazardous RES in my home system that was a few Ls from the station I have all my ships in. I feel like they did that just because it was too convenient. I know this sounds a bit like some Dale Gribble conspiracy theory, but given Frontier's behavior on these things, it makes total sense. They did that for the sake of making the process of going to make money via bounty hunting take longer, dragging out the time it takes a player to amass a high amount of credits. It's frustrating, it isn't fun, it doesn't balance the game more or anything like that.
There are some other things I wish they would add in the game, which I feel like should be standard in a game like this. Why can't you transfer money to other players? The only real way to do that is to go somewhere and swap cargo via ejecting it and the other person picking it up. Background simulation is good, and I like the idea of factions going to war, combat zones, and facing other players there. All of that is actually fun, but then these things fall short with the omission of things like trading goods for credits among other players.
Better yet, why not let players sell Engineered modules? Maybe they got something that isn't incredibly useful to their ship, but useful to someone else. It's also frustrating that some of the materials have to go in cargo spaces. You have a Fer-De-Lance? Better put some cargo racks on that thing! Oh, you wanted to upgrade the stuff you had to replace for the cargo racks? Too bad you're luck.
Frontier, if somehow by small chance, you were reading this: I love this game, but it could be so much better. The space flight and combat are spot on and excellent. Driving on planets is fun. The background simulation is pulled off pretty well. The atmosphere in the game is unparalleled. Grinding is not necessary for balance though! I understand not wanting to hand everyone the keys to the kingdom instantly, and that's fine. However when you make us jump through hoops like collecting materials we may or not need in our 600 slots, when there are so many more materials, or removing convenient RES, or taking out a good smuggling mission source, it just makes things less fun.
I will still continue to play, but that does not mean I am not frustrated with these kinds of things. I really want to see what Star Citizen brings to the table regarding this, whenever it's eventual release is. Frontier, this could all be so much better, the power is in your hands to fix this.
DavionStriker
Member
When playing in VR, is there any way to show your mouse cursor in the galaxy map?
Anton Sugar
Member
Ship kits are starting to show in the store. Those prices seem to be for ALL kits for a specific ship, tho? It would be nice to buy them individually for cheaper.
Cobra, Sidewinder, and Eagle-only right now:
Lots of good ideas here, and another post on FD not learning from Diablo 3/The Division's mistakes:
Cobra, Sidewinder, and Eagle-only right now:
Lots of good ideas here, and another post on FD not learning from Diablo 3/The Division's mistakes:
Caesar III
Member
Even better: Let us sell System Data at prices depending on the distance between data system and sell system. It's so stupid. Data from beagle point is equal with data inside the bubble, what!?
Do it like kornelius, use another ship with more modules. -_-
It would be so easy... A "slot" for every material and an integer for its amount. DONE!
Move the mouse to the right you should reach the ingame screen that way. It works for me at least (3 Display setup + Rift DK2)
I agree. As much as I like the idea of these super cool weapons and modules, the effort to get them is almost not worth it, and just frustrating. I understand wanting to have RNG so not everyone runs with the exact same modules, but you at least need to guarantee a certain amount of strengths. I don't want to be able to roll and get something that is complete and utter crap in the red, and waste time and resources.
Caesar III
Member
haha the calmness of Kornelius is awesome. I'm sure he destroyed his keyboard after this video
haha the calmness of Kornelius is awesome. I'm sure he destroyed his keyboard after this video
He's had some rants about this kind of stuff before, but never quite blown up to this degree. That man can stay calm like no other.
That bug he has with the Sirius system must be extremely frustrating.
Caesar III
Member
Vindicator does some mine dropping when interdicted. this seems like a NICE idea! Need to try this haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzRLt0Zm8Nk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzRLt0Zm8Nk
That's probably the first time I have ever seen mines be useful.
#BuffMinesAndDumbfireMissiles
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
He's pretty spot on though, engineers is a pretty good idea that was horribly implemented, far FAR too much punishing grind and randomness. They seriously need to tune some of the knobs to improve the experience.
It is. I really want to unlock Palin as well. So first I have to unlock Qwent by getting a Sisius permit. I did 50 missions to get the permit mission and it just sits there in my transaction window, telling me to wait for a message in my inbox.
So then I went on to rank up McQuinn, for those multicannons instead. That's when it became painfully obvious that collecting materials is incredibly tedious. I'm really disappointed with the game right now. It's a perfect example of lazy and poor game design.
Also, how do you upgrade all of the modules on an Eagle when you need cargo space to carry the commodities you need to upgrade said modules?
Yeah I've completely stopped playing until they address Engineer rep grinding and actual chances of an upgrade. I'm done wasting my time.
Reckheim
Member
Do we know who at frontier is in charge of this? I mean its fairly obvious that they have been screwing up since the beginning, I cant imagine they wouldn't replace them by now.
No idea. It feels like a collaborative effort for their whole team. I really wish they would accept feedback from the community on these types of things. They listen on some aspects, but then it seems like they don't listen enough. They still keep to the philosophy of "grind = balance" and grind really doesn't equal balance. I understand what progression is, I understand you don't want the new players to go straight from Sidewinder to decked out Anaconda in 10 minutes, and if you eliminated a lot of these grinds, that still would not happen.
They bring in cool new toys, such as the Engineers and their modules, but then lock them off with a grind! You don't HAVE to grind in the game technically, but you want to play with the cool toys? You better get to grinding.
Combat has always been, and still is the best aspect of Elite. I wish they would continue to design other aspects of the game in a similar manner to combat. Combat shares a lot of things opposite from almost everything else in the game.
1. Combat is consistently fun. Whether I am doing PvP in a CZ, RES farming, or anything, combat is mostly fun. It's particularly fun against ships that are more challenging to fight. Even though they don't pay out too much, Pirate Lord missions were always satisfying to pull off because unless you had an Anaconda of your own, you were usually outmatched technically, and you had to strategize to kill the pirate lord and deal with their wingmen.
2. Combat is based on skill more than anything else. Ask about anyone and they will tell you that combat is based more on player skill than anything. Ships, shields, weapons, and other modules are a big part too. Obviously you aren't going to win in a starter Sidewinder against a Fer-De-Lance armed to the teeth, but say you take a well outfitted Vulture against an Anaconda, if you're skilled enough you could pull it off.
3. The only grinding in combat is for ships and modules, nothing else. Yes, there technically is grinding, but if you are doing that grinding via combat, then you are still in combat, which is fun. Beyond that, there is no level grinding, no rating grinding, nothing. That's the beauty of it. If I were to buy another copy of the game, start a new account, get me a decent ship like a Vulture or something, I could go face a player in a Python or FDL and still have a reasonable chance of winning. I'm not outleveled, the only things that matter are my ship and my skills.
Engineers is an example of being the opposite of that. There is leveling, there is a major grind, it's not fun to do that grind because it turns out to be more frustrating when you aren't getting the materials you want.
I used to play Runescape back in late middle/early high school. This was around 2004-2006 I believe. I played it, but then after a long time of playing it. I realized that I really wasn't having fun with it. I chose to use magic in the game, here was the process I had to go through.
To use magic, you need runes. You can buy a staff that counts as any number of that rune (So if you bought an Air Staff, you don't need Air Runes), but of course the staves were only for the more common runes. To get runes, there's a few ways of obtaining them. You can buy them from shops, which of course are usually out of the rare ones since those are what everyone needs, or you can craft them. Crafting them was a process in and of itself.
To craft runes, you had to do the quest to unlock that (you only had to do this once, so this part isn't bad). You also need the talismans of the type of rune you wanted to craft. These could be dropped from enemies, bought from shops, or traded from players. You only had to get a Talisman once, and once you got it, you had to use it to figure out where the teleport area was to go to that rune's crafting area. Those were always in the same place, so once you found it once, or a friend told you, you always knew where it was.
Once you have all that down, now you actually have to craft the runes. This is where the grind comes in. You have to go to a magic shop, and ask to be teleported to the Rune Essence. You need a pickaxe. You mine the Rune Essence until your inventory is full, which is about 25 slots or so, it's been a while so I do not remember how many inventory slots there were. Then you leave the Rune Essence, and now it's time to go to the crafting altar for whichever rune you want. That could be close or far away from one of the magic shops. Time to run, and you have limited stamina, so when that runs out you are walking painfully slow. You will need either the talisman, or you can craft or buy a Tiara of that type of rune (Tiara can be worn, so you don't take up an inventory slot with the Talisman) and go to the portal. You warp, and can craft the runes. Now go back, put them in your bank, go back to the magic shop, and repeat all of this again until you have as many runes as you need.
Now you have all the runes you need, so it's time to go do something fun. You take on a difficult quest, or PvP, or whatever. This lasts maybe an hour or so, after this is over, you're low on runes! Back to the mutli-hour grind!
That right there is why I don't like Runescape, and reminds me so much of the Engineers, and a lot of aspects of Elite. The difference is that Elite has tons of redeeming qualities. I didn't even touch on the part that random events will happen just to prevent players from going AFK or using bots or scripts to farm. Some of these events can be things that are threats to you, or things that take you on some event, and then you go back to where you were, slowing down what you were doing even further.
Did they change the UI, because this looks much nicer than before?
Yes. Both Outfitting and the Mission Board have been overhauled.
Anton Sugar
Member
Glad I didn't trek the 150ly from Apam Napat to my first engineers (in my Vulture, no less). I'll wait for the patch.
In the meantime, I am enjoying the other additions from 2.1.
In the meantime, I am enjoying the other additions from 2.1.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
A patch might not come though. Their really has been zero acknowledgement on the part of the devs that they will be taking a second look at and changing any of this grind and randomness. They have said they might someday implement a mechanic where you can spend rep with the engineer to help bolster the rng odds in your favor, but then that means you will have to .... grind that rep back up again!!!
It's a solution that just shows how out of touch they truly are, if they even bother to implement it at all.
I think I'm going to take a break for a bit and play some American Truck Simulator instead.
Anton Sugar
Member
I'm almost positive that rep exchange is coming in the next patch. It's definitely something they plan on doing.
That may also be the patch where they buff the RNG rates. That one didn't go out, right? I thought that was a patch they were just discussing right at the end of the beta.
Camp Freddie
Member
Ewwwww... RNG on rare collectibles followed by grinding rep and an RNG on the upgrade stats?
That scheme worked so well for the Division...
I quit the game around the time of horizons and was wondering if they'd improved some of the grind (like the horrid military rank system). It sounds like they made it worse.
That scheme worked so well for the Division...
I quit the game around the time of horizons and was wondering if they'd improved some of the grind (like the horrid military rank system). It sounds like they made it worse.
Those ship kits are dumb. I mean... they look cool and I may have bought the Eagle pack... but they could have added another layer of actual customization by making them part of the actual game instead of just a cosmetic dlc.
These should be engineer upgrades or mission rewards, and they should impact your ship's stats.
These should be engineer upgrades or mission rewards, and they should impact your ship's stats.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, if stats are going to vary so wildly, it needs to be FAR easier to craft them.
I'd also be happy with the opposite. A slog of a grind is mitigated by a fantastic piece of gear.
I don't think they should impact your ship (until atmospheric is in, that is), but yeah, I really wish they would offer skins or cosmetics, or even rare/high grade modules (not even necessarily crafted ones), as rewards.
They could easily implement an MMO-like approach, too, offering three different types of rewards for completing a mission and letting you choose.
I regret buying it now, but at least I didn't get the commander version or buy the expansions. I see at the top end it isnt that great but from my end as a beginner. I've seen better tutorials on a space game with only one developer. From how half baked all the systems are it seems like the developer doesnt know what they are doing at all.
This has made me try some other space games at least, its disappointing that this game gets all the sales and publicity when there is better out there.
This has made me try some other space games at least, its disappointing that this game gets all the sales and publicity when there is better out there.