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Elminage Gothic |OT| - I cast magic missile at the darkness!

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
I like the serie just a little hehehe.(wizardry empire 3 is missing in the picture but I have it + gothic soundtrack)
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haha very cool! those guide books are pretty hard to find these days (゜ロ゜;ノ)ノ
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
I have stuff translated from the JP Wiki to post, but I'm at work. Glad there's an OT to post it in now.

just let me know i actually have a banner ready for user based information. can stick it in the ot later on. :)

ーーー

will be sure to thank everyone else who commented on the OT as usual once am behind a proper pc.
 
From what everyone said, it's cheap maps anyway, so not much of an issue. No map would be a lot bigger problem for me, mostly because I can't be bothered drawing maps on paper(I do love the Etrian Odyssey mapping though, where I don't need a bunch of paper sheets and an eraser and stuff). Also it's a PC game, which means if you want to, you'll just be able to make the maps cost 0 or infinite by editing the memory(if you can't just edit the game files, not sure how simple that'd be). Or just alt tab to a wiki with all the maps, but I guess that doesn't show your position on them so that's more annoying.

Now I need to figure out what classes to play, they all look pretty nice. I'm not a super fan of the typical class setup so I kinda feel like going full hybrids but the xp penalty on hybrids sounds like it'd be like real hardcore early on. Oh well I'm sure I'll figure it out after 5 or 6 hours of rerolling and playing the first dungeon/area.
 

Omnipunctual Godot

Gold Member
Thank you very much for the well-crafted OP.

Does anyone know if this game uses save states? I've never played these games and I'm a little wary of permanently whittling down characters in an 80+ hour game.
 
Might as well add some more stuff for first-timers.

Maps - Yes they're one-time use but I prefer to think of them as magic compasses. They're mostly used for keeping track of where you are. Also in B1 of the third dungeon you can find a goblin dungeon map. This can be used multiple times (I can't say infinite because eventually it breaks). Broken stuff is mostly a temporary inconvenience, since everything can be repaired at the shop or via spells. Alternatively, you could always keep the F12 key handy and take screenshots. It's not 1:1 obviously but it'll provide a good frame of reference.

Roll & Re-roll - When deciding your class, don't think you have to multi-class or make somebody 200 years old to start off as a Lord, Valkyrie, or whatever. The points awarded to a starting character are not pre-determined. You can continually re-roll until you get enough points for the class you want.

Starting Races & Classes - Rather than give a generic run-down(already covered by the OP in greater detail anyway) I'll discuss my party:

Front-line
Valkyrie - Lots of armor, spears, and heals.
Samurai - Swords, secondary mage spells, eventually nearly impossible to physically attack.
Brawler (Dragon) - AC bonus, lots of damage, breathes fire. Breath attacks are very handy because they get stronger with level-ups, eventually damage multiple monsters, and are effective against ghosts.

Back-line
Cleric -> Lord - Lots of armor, heals. Not much to say really. There's a skill that boosts healing and it works for potions as well as spells. I might drop her for something else since I already have a Valkyrie though. Maybe a Ninja? Hmm..

Thief (Dragon) -> ????? - I haven't quite decided where to go with this guy. Disarming chests is essential but other classes can handle that. Until then this guy gets loot and also breathes fire.

Mage -> Summoner -> Alchemist - Mages are essential due to their diomente(teleport) spell. After getting at least one point in a spell-level you can class-change and get three points. Getting a good summon is frustrating but can be very worthwhile. Even something simple like a ninja can save headaches. They can attack most any range, behead/charm/paralyze their foes often, and assist in avoiding ambushes. I expect to drop Summoner as soon as I reach spell level 7, having a lot of charges isn't really necessary. Depending on how I feel I might stay with Alchemist (lots of utility spells, since my party isn't built for nukes) or go full circle with a Bishop.

Race isn't a huge factor, but each of them have a unique talent (breath attacks, were-people can cause status effects, etc).

Special Skills - After deciding your race/class you can decide from a number of unique skills. Once you pick one you're stuck with it (unless you change classes). I'll just post what I grabbed because I can't remember them all.

Boosts damage when at max HP - I haven't really seen the benefit from this. It might be a better fit for my brawler since he's my main damage-dealer.
Random encounters will drop chests - Normally only monster nests(guaranteed battles) will drop treasure chests. The game sez there's a random chance but it looks more like 100% in my experience.
Mysterious bag - Loot the party can't carry will be transferred to the alchemy workshop. Between the equipment, potions, and maps, there isn't much room for carrying all the stuff you grab in dungeons. Rather than drag a Bishop around to identify and dump all the garbage it's easier to just have a lot of extra space.
Boost healing ability - As I mentioned earlier, healers get a lot of use out of this. Otherwise potions can be very crappy (healing 5 hp WTF?)
Chi attack - My Brawler has it and all it does is collect dust.
Tackle - Randomly stops monsters from regaining HP at the end of a round(if they have the ability to). This never works when it would actually really help (such as a boss-fight)

Easy Experience - For the beginning of the game, the best grind point is in the third floor of the first dungeon. As part of the main quest you'll reach a hole that when inspected, will lead to a battle. This hole can be continually inspected for more fights, and they average 3,000 to 4,000 exp. At this point in the game it's the easiest because the monsters don't hit very hard and you just have to press a few buttons to get through. Grab a book or you will be bored to death. This is IMO the best time to grind for Diomente. The later dungeons give better equipment rewards sure, but the monsters are more dangerous(you'll run into creatures capable of beheading by the second dungeon).

1 HP - When you level up you are going to see this A LOT. This is the #1 reason to avoid multi-classing if you can, as you'll be seeing +1 HPs for a long time afterwards. Otherwise, if you don't like your HP bonus, you can either reload or just move on. HP gains are balanced out so while one level you get +1 your next level might be +30. There are times though when you could really use that +15. It's your call in the end.

SAVE FREQUENTLY - This game offers the option to save anywhere and at anytime(aside from the middle of a battle of course). So you can save between every fight, only at town, or not at all. Keep in mind though that the monsters don't play around, and ambushes will frequently lead to dead characters thanks to nukes, beheads, falling into chasms due to an earthquake spell, level drain(worse than death IMO), etc. You can only prepare for so much.
 
On the front/back line, how does it work in this game? Can your backline be hit at all if you still have front liners(besides aoes and stuff obviously) or are they completely safe? Ranged weapons maybe? Do you need certain weapon types or certain classes to hit from the back row? Can you hit the enemy back row with your frontline, only certain classes/weapons(say Valkyrie with spear)?
 
On the front/back line, how does it work in this game? Can your backline be hit at all if you still have front liners(besides aoes and stuff obviously) or are they completely safe? Ranged weapons maybe? Do you need certain weapon types or certain classes to hit from the back row? Can you hit the enemy back row with your frontline, only certain classes/weapons(say Valkyrie with spear)?

Weapons are classified as S M or L

S means you have to be front row. (swords, axes)
M can be front or back row, but you have to be in the front to hit enemies in the back. (spears, whips)
L means you can attack from anywhere (bows)
Spells can target anywhere.
Enemy parties typically consist of three rows, but only the first two are visible and can attack/be attacked.

It works both ways. Your front 3 will take the brunt of attacks, however spear-users, masters of throwing weapons(ninja), casters, and flying enemies can go after your back row.
 

Seda

Member
On the front/back line, how does it work in this game? Can your backline be hit at all if you still have front liners(besides aoes and stuff obviously) or are they completely safe? Ranged weapons maybe? Do you need certain weapon types or certain classes to hit from the back row? Can you hit the enemy back row with your frontline, only certain classes/weapons(say Valkyrie with spear)?

Different weapons have different attack ranges. For example, an enemy with a bow will be able to attack your back line, but one with a club will not. Spears have medium range as well, so a valkyrie in the back can attack with it.

Enemies can also have their own front/back lines as well.

@Pepsiman - I've been training a mage but I don't think I have the diomente spell? It's just a normal mage spell they gain? I'll have to check and see if I missed it.
 

KiTA

Member
Samurais were nerfed in this. Before their anti physical thing could reach 95% chance to counter. Now it caps at 50%. Not bad, but no more silliness where you can solo the last bonus boss by just being impossible to hit.

How's the post game in this BTW? Is there NG+? Boss rematches? The wiki suggests the 3DS added FOE rematches or some such, so...

Did they ever explain the damned cryptic numbers on a pillar in the last dungeons of the games?
 
Weapons are classified as S M or L

S means you have to be front row. (swords, axes)
M can be front or back row, but you have to be in the front to hit enemies in the back. (spears, whips)
L means you can attack from anywhere (bows)
Spells can target anywhere.
Enemy parties typically consist of three rows, but only the first two are visible and can attack/be attacked.

It works both ways. Your front 3 will take the brunt of attacks, however spear-users, masters of throwing weapons(ninja), casters, and flying enemies can go after your back row.

Thanks seems like fairly standard, but never know, I played Etrian only recently and it had different mechanics where front row is only a higher probability of getting hit and every enemy can just slap your back row whenever they feel like it so it changes your strategies a bit.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
i see new user information in showing up so will add it to a special section in the OT for easy ref.
 

Tizoc

Member
This will be my Souls game.
I bought it to support the dev but hesitated on whether to gift it or play it myself.
Having already activated on my account, I'll sparodically play through it and should I finish it know the true meaning of Praising the Sun or whatever counts as the Sun in this game.
 

KiTA

Member
Wait, am I misunderstanding the wiki? It says thieves aren't as useful anymore because you can't steal... Something from most non boss enemies.

I thought it was monster gear like Death Tentacles and the like, but ... Could they be talking about alchemy items (Renkin materials)?

Edit:
http://spoiler2.sakura.ne.jp/srv2/elg/E8A3BDE59381E68385E5A0B12FE696B0E8A681E7B4A0.html

"Adjustment of possession equipment / items of enemy

Except for the part of the floor master, etc., most of the enemy was no longer in possession of useful items and equipment.
Usefulness HM skills of Thieves "steal" was greatly reduced.
Weapons / armor procurement of militants has become very difficult."



So its both. Bugger. Maybe I'll just go Ninja right off this time instead of Brawler. Or go Alchemist -> Hunter instead of pure thief.
 

KiTA

Member
A very quick data dump on classes. The names in these are absolutely wrong, and will be fixed once I get that far (or when someone corrects me, please feel free.) This all comes from the JP wiki and was (poorly) translated.

Race affects HP more than class or stats. An Elf Lord and a Dragonnewt Mage, well...

1 point of STR = ~5% Physical Damage.
INT goes up similarly but it seems to go crazy after 18 INT.

Basic Classes:

Fighter
Their Mastery ability causes them to do more damage, up to 324.3%.

As a Starting Class: C. They offer nothing good except for high HP growth, which is recalculated if you ever lose a level or classchange again.
As a Ending Class: B. They're actually pretty good at physical attacks, especially with "Swallow Return" or whatever it's called in the final English translation. Their armor is kinda crap, though.
No Class Changes: B. Innocent gear is really good for them.

The best fighter gear is male exclusive. The Mirage Lance, which I believe is an Innocent gear (can only be used by characters who have not classchanged), is unisex.

Mage
Mastery: Magic damage up, max of 737.6%. Lowest HP by far.

Starting Class: A. While you won't be doing DPS as a Mage-turned-whatever, being able to buff or teleport is useful.
Ending Class: B. With EX Skills they're not as irreplaceable as before. Supposedly after level 2000 they can single-shot entire parties.
No Class Changes: C. Innocent gear is ok for them. With EX Skills and other Party Members they might not need class changing. The real bummer is they can't pick up other spell types.

I guess there's a specific spell (Musukai?) that can instant kill mages. Not sure if this is to discourage people getting all the magics on all their party members?

Priest
Class: Dispell - Ghost/Undead instant kill, do not gain XP
Holy Strike: Their attacks can hit ghosts, and they do bonus damage.
Mastery: Priest magic up, max of 1261.9% (holy cow).
Mastery - Liberation: Dispell now gives XP.

They have a special EX skill called Absolute Wall that is useful. It uses 50% of your max SP to block all damage once.

Starting Class: A. Having multiple people who can heal, for example who can heal status elements, is good.
Ending Class: C. With EX Skills the idea of a character that is "Only a Priest" is absurd. However, once you start getting into the really big stuff, a specific priest spell can cause a straight 50% damage to an enemy, whereas other classes do 12.5%.
No Class Changes: C. It's better to just get the other magics if nothing else than to use the Innocent Gear.

Only the default priest character (Mupi) in the inn has the EX Skill "Sacrifice." This CANNOT be gotten by anyone else.

Thief
Mastery: Physical attack up, up to 264.0%
Mastery - Disarm: Unequip the enemy's gear.
Mastery - Pickpocket: Steal the enemy's unequipped items.

Special EX Skill, Pass the Buck. If you steal and your inventory is full, you automatically pass the item to a party member.

Starting Class: C. They pass along nothing to other classes.
Ending Class: B. They aren't as good as magic for traps -- even a high level thief doesn't hit 100%. Unfortunately, they over-nerfed enemy gear in Elminage Gothic (they fixed this in Elminage Gothic 3DS) and outside of bosses there's not as much good gear to get.
No Class Changes: C. Innocent gear is nice, but being able to cast spells is better. The Mirage gear is a special set of Innocent gear that the Thieves can steal.

With the nerfs to enemy gear Thieves don't shine as well as they used to. With Hunters now keeping up to 9 casts of all the Alchemist spells, it's hard to justify a pure thief.

Alchemist
Class: Blacksmithing / Forging: Empowering gear and Making items out of components.
Mastery -- Resolution: Remove components out of empowered gear.
Mastery -- High Purity Synthesis: Bonus to AP when crafting.

Special EX Skill: 100% Knowledge. Gives them the AP value of items instantly in dungeons, and warns you if an item is cursed.

Starting Class: A. Alchemy spells are useful the ENTIRE game.
Ending Class: A. Being able to forge your own gear is amazing.
No Class Change: C. Just switch to mage/priest, get the spells, and come back.

Blacksmithing completely changes the game's difficulty. It gets to the point that you won't want to change your Alchemist's class as they are so useful for gear modifications.

Herbalist Servant

Automatically uses healing items every turn of combat.

Class: Sudden Cure. At the end of each turn a healing item is used.
Class: Medical Herb Study: MP and Skill uses are recovered by magic.
Class: Resistances. No clue. something about 50% resistances (to everything? to status effects?)
Mastery: Physical Damage Up
Mastery: Specific Medicine knowledge: Herbs of Magic restore twice as much MP.

Special EX Skill: 100% Knowledge.

Starting Class: C. It doesn't pass on anything.
Ending Class: B. They are nice for being able to heal the party automatically at the end of the turn instead of next turn with magic, but they're just not as useful as they could be. The wiki talks about some "divine protection" thing, might be a skill from Elmiange 2 / 3 that I don't recognize? Not sure.
No Class Change: C. Innocent Gear is nice, but magic is nicer.

The Magic Recovery herbs are nice but are too expensive to really be useful.
 

KiTA

Member
Intermediate Jobs:

These jobs all level up a little slower than Basic jobs (150% XP or so?). Mastery abilities are learned at 32 opposed to 26 as basic classes.

Bishop

Mage and Priest at the same time. A Wizardry Staple. They still get ID, and still learn all Mage and Priest magic -- but very, very slowly.

Class: Dispell. Ghost/Demon enemies are destroyed without giving XP.
Class: ID. Items are IDed. To ID the highest level gear from the bonus dungeon with good success, you need a level 200+ Bishop.
Mastery: Mage spell damage up (Max 562.4%, weaker than Mages)
Mastery: Priest spell power up (Max 843.6%, again weaker than Mages)

Special EX Skill: 100 Knowledge

Starting Class: B. They learn magic really slowly. The Japanese wiki suggests that the XP to learn all the spells as a bishop is equal to the XP required to learn all the mage spells as a mage + the XP required to learn all the priest spells as a priest... times TWO.
Ending Class: A. They're the only class that gets ID and 9 casts of both Mage and Priest magic. Going Alchemist -> Bishop is a great way to make an endgame caster.
No Class Change: B. Innocent Gear is ok.

ID isn't as important early on as in other games in this genre as there is no way to donate money to gain XP in this one like in others. (This was re-added in the 3DS version.)

Hunter

Thief + FIghter.

Class: Swift Attack. Has limited uses but lets you attack first. You can use any weapon.
Class: Pursuit. Does an extra attack to a single enemy at the end of the turn if they have a status ailment (Might require a Bow to be equipped.) Uses up SP, which is like MP but just for this skill.
Class: Thief skills
Mastery: Phys Damage Up (232.0%)
Mastery: Machine Gun Pursuit: Pursuit can hit an unlimited number of enemies.

Starting Class: C. Doesn't pass on anything.
Ending Class: A. It's hard to use Alchemy to make L range gear, so bows are now attractive. Enemies cannot dodge pursuit so it's useful for high evade enemies. And for some reason if they classchange from Alchemist they keep all 9 casts of those spells.
No Class Change: C. Bows are useful but there's no Innocent Bow.

Apparently Pursuit spam is really quite useful.

Brawler

Unarmed combat specialist. They have a special ability that lets them hit up to 4 times in a row, and if they do, they nerf the heck out of the enemy's resistances. Important for getting the later summons.

Class: AC Decrease. Like Ninjas, if they are unarmed they get better and better natural armor. There are some armors that do not count and can be used to give resistances. Every three levels they get -1 AC.
Class: Renu: 50% chance of attacking again. If they hit 4 times in a row, they can do a "clean hit" which mauls enemy resistances.
Mastery: Physical Attack Up (222.2%)
Mastery: FIghting Instinct. Clean Hit chance increases (up to 100%)

Starting Class: C. Doesn't pass on anything.
Ending Class: A. Renu is still strong although they've been nerfed somewhat.
No Class Change: B. No need for innocent gear due to AC Decrease, but the Innocent Cape does count as one of the armors they can wear. However, they really can't waste time casting spells so...

There's no drop weapons for them for a long time. They nerfed enemy gear by basically forgetting to give non-boss enemies drops to steal, which really nerfed Brawlers. They also didn't include much in the way of AC: YES gear they can use. In short, they're not the one man wrecking crew they were in Elminage Original.

Bard

A fighter / mage that can use Tarot and thieving abilities. They can use surprisingly good gear. Basically your all-in-one superclass.

Class: Tarot: They can use the Tarot abilities.
Class: Musical Instrument: They can use special musical Items
Mastery: Physical Power Up (Max 226.9%)
Mastery: Tempt Fate: Tarot draw success rate up

Starting Class: B. They can pass up mage spells, but learn them very slowly. They can't pass up anything else, so why not just play as a mage?
Ending Class: B. Tarot is nice, but very very random. They can equip better gear than quite a few hybird frontline classes. They get better towards the end of the game as they get more and more gear.
No Class Change: B. They have a lot of utility, but they gain even more if they have Alchemist and Priest spells.

Apparently in Elminage 3 you could replace all your slots with Musical Instruments. You cannot do that in Gothic.

They don't get Magic Up, so they're not as good as Bishops or Mages, but can be your spellcaster till the final boss. Postgame, you'll want to replace them. Level 24 to get all 9s.

The more you use Tarot, the worse your success at it is. You can repair this by using the Inn or some of the Herbs. There's apparently a way to abuse this. (Of course!)

Goblin Mages drop or can have swords stolen from them that are useful for Bards in the mid game.

Shaman / Kannagi

They do NOT get priest spells. (Ack.)

Class: Dispel. Soul or Demons are banished, no XP.
Class: Soul Strike (霊体攻撃): Can hit ghosts, and ignores armor of everything else? Half armor? Not sure.
Class: Musical Instruments: They can use special musical items
Class: Barrier: Erect a barrier that weakens attacks. High priority.
Mastery: Physical attack up (226.9%)
Mastery: Old Fashioned: Equip seals instead of clothes to attack up to 8 times in a row. Insert your own joke about ancient Kannagi knowing how to party here.

Special EX Skill: Sacred Lot: Switch XP and Gold values gained at the end of the fight are changed (switched?)

Starting Class: C. They do not pass on anything.
Ending Class: A. They do great damage, and with Old Fashioned, they can do a lot of damage AND do a ton of status effects as well.
No Class Change: C. No magic, innocent gear isn't worth it, etc.

They're basically a glass cannon like a wizard. They are absurdly powerful against ghosts, undead, and demons. With Barrier now having a number of uses, they're not as super great as they were. In Original (and 2 / 3?) they had an ability called "Oro Curse" that caused them to do a straight double damage on top of everything else to Demons / Undead / Ghosts / etc... that's gone. Still, almost every one of their weapons do double damage to those, so, woo.

Old Fashioned basically makes the class. They can do an absurd amount of damage. They need the EX Skill "Swallow Killing" which lets them ignore the Samurai's counterattack ability, though, since enemies can be Samurais now. Using Alchemy to make their weapons powerful against other races is good too. Also, most enemies aren't immune to sleep (but are to say, Beheading or Petrification) so adding Sleep to your Shaman weapons works well.

Supposedly in the postgame dungeon there's Shaman gear that's super effective against EVERYTHING, so... yeah. And while they focus on their special weapons, nothing says they can't use clubs and whips in their hands (and equip their seals to their heads / feet / etc).

Summoner

The amazing super k-rad awesomeness. They don't get spells as normal, instead they summon a 7th party member, and can hold one monster type (including bosses) for each spell "level."

Mastery: Oath of Blood: Summoned monsters increased (Max 1221.5% -- so a level 40 Demon would become a level 488 nightmare.) Their abilities are adjusted and some become absolutely absurd. If I'm reading this right, monsters that have classes (like Samurai or Ninja), when modified by Oath of Blood, gain their enhanced class abilities.

Special EX Skill: Masutatterion (Summon... everything at once? Merge summons into one big summon? Not sure.) and "Oath of Soul" (turn summons into permanent PCs, making them into absurdly broken ... things)

Starting Class: B. They can pass on summons but why in the world would you -- without Oath of Blood, it's worthless.
Ending Class: A. Holy god, summons are insane. And the Oath of Blood thing is nuts.
No Class Change: C. They don't get much from innocent gear and really they're meant to be doing other things after summoning, without other spells they really are just sitting around wasting time.

Gothic added a lot more really good summons in the early/mid game. This is now an attractive class to use from the start instead of being an Alchemist/Bishop's retirement plan. Best to be 10 levels higher than your summon targets to ensure success. You will NEED a Brawler if you have this class, most of the good monsters have 100 or 98% resistance to summon contracts.

The PSP version has a bug where a Summoner can use Oath of Soul on summons from ANOTHER character. This was fixed in the 3DS. Oath of Soul party members are much better in Gothic than they were in Original, mostly due to them not getting Innocent Gear not being a huge disaster anymore.

Valkyrie

Female only (barring special class change situations). They're basically a more offensive / well balanced Lord.

Class: Dispel
Class: Soul Strike (霊体攻撃): Can hit ghosts, and ignores armor of everything else? Half armor? Not sure.
Mastery: Physical attack up (224.0% max)
Mastery: (3DS Only): Priest spells up (unknown max). You can simulate this in the PSP by giving them that one EX Skill that gives them healing bonuses?
Mastery: Lady of the Spear: They can equip spears as sub-weapons (dual wield)

Starting Class: B. They gain priest spells very slowly, but have good HP. However, if you want a neutral character with priest spells, this is your only option. (Outside of changing alignment.)
Ending Class: A. Dual Wielding spears is GREAT. And they get 9 casts of all priest spells! That's amazing!
No Class Change: A. There's an Innocent Spear that's really great. If you're going to use one Innocent Class, this is the one to use.

Lady of the Spear really increases their damage output, especially by the end of the game. Since they can stay in the rear they can be really, really amazing. And Gothic added a TON of spears.
 

KiTA

Member
Advanced Jobs:

Level at half the speed of basic jobs. They gain their Mastery abilities at 36.

Lord

It's a Paladin. Ungodly armor + heal spells.

Class: Dispel.
Class: Resist Up (Max 50%). Just by existing they ignore 50% of all status ailments, including the instant kills.
Mastery: Physical Attack up (Max 213.4%)
Mastery (3DS Only): Priest Magic Up
Mastery: Sanctuary: The entire party's status ailment resistance rises (75% max at level 494.)

Special EX: Absolute Wall

Starting Class: C. They level up so. SLOW.
Ending Class: A. They were nerfed in Gothic, but they're basically required for the post-game. With that one EX skill they can be your party's main healer.
No Class Change: B. This is only for the Innocent Spear, which is really good.

Their Sanctuary is only 28% at level 100, where it used to cap out. Big nerf.

Lords can dual wield now. Why would you want to, though? One of the more powerful weapons, the Holy Saber, is gender restricted, but Alchemy can remove it. They removed this restriction in the 3DS version.

Starting as early as the first dungeon ninja enemies will start instant killing you. The Lord reduces that chance to 0 as they level.

Samurai

It's an anti-paladin. Bad armor, great damage, mage spells.

Basic: Dual Katanas: They can dual wield "main hand" gear.
Mastery: Physical Attack up (217.6%)
Mastery (3DS Only): Mage Magic Up
Mastery: The Swallows Return: Counterattack Physical Damage (50% cap) -- huge nerf from the 95% in Original.

Starting Class: C. TOO SLOW.
Ending Class: A. The debuffs from magic, teleports, and their pure damage is very appealing. The best Katana is male only (but was made unisex in the 3DS version).
No Class Change: A. Great damage throughout the game. A thief can steal great katanas from some bosses. There are more bosses in the 3DS version that need The Swallows Return to damage them (due to high AC).

They nerfed Swallows Return, a LOT. They cap it out faster but much earlier than before. Range Increase Alchemy is vital as it lets you counterattack things in the back row. Give them beheading too, just for fun.

Fighters and Brawlers might actually out DPS them in the longest term, but Samurais are absurd damage, especially when they get a chance to counterattack.

Amusingly, the best protector (Shield?) is Samurai only in the PSP version.

Ninja

Stealth. Thief abilities. ABSURD BEHEADING CHANCE. This is the Ninja from the original Wizardry, here to kill everything, take names, then kill the names.

Class: Hide
Class: AC Decrease: Every 3 levels lose 1 AC.
Class: Beheading: Their attacks gain beheading (50% max).
Class: Vigilance: 1. They have a chance to start combat hidden, 2. They can prevent surprise attacks. Cap of 50% at or around level 1000.
Mastery: Physical Damage Up (198.6%)
Mastery: Attack from the Darkness: Bare Handed Attacks become L range

Special EX Skill: One's Double. It's that thing that Naruto does. Summons a clone.

Starting Class: C. Slowest XP growth in the game. They pass on nothing.
Ending Class: A. They're absurdly strong. In the postgame a surprise attack can instantly wipe your party. Random monsters in the bonus dungeon have thousands of HP, and being able to instant kill them is very, very nice. AC Decrease makes them absurd (if not impossible) to hit.
No Class Change: B. It's near impossible to make on in the training center. There is a job change item, however. You won't miss not having magic.

Slowest leveling rate in the game. By far. Innocent Ninjas are crazy hard to do because of the stat requirements (basically 50+ bonus points needed). The Eremite's Knife and Medal of Power can turn you into one, though.

They can do thief work but aren't really thieves. Using magic to scan chests is better.

Lower HP but insane AC due to their skills.

Their 50% bonus to beheading is ADDITIVE with gear and caps out at 95% with gear. So Enchanting them so hey have 55% chance to behead means at cap they'll behead 19/20 times.

Attack from the Darkness is worthless as you'll NEED weapons on your Ninja. Bare hands won't cut it, mostly cause you can't blacksmith your fists. Fortunately, they added Ninja gear to all levels, starting with the Dirk. Ninjas can also use shields early on. The Innocent Cloak is really nice for them, if you are insane and trying to keep an Innocent Ninja. The 3DS version added a LOT of Ninja gear to the theft tables.

If they can't behead, their DPS is worse than the Lord. Giving their weapons status attacks like Poison or Sleep is good for bosses and the postgame dungeons (where beheading immune mooks start to appear).
 

Tizoc

Member
That reminds me...can you have custom 'avatars' for your characters?
EDIT based on this
Basically the almighty 2 fighters, thief, cleric, mage, ranger.
I'll name my 2 fighters Skids & Nautica
Thief will be Misfire, cuz why not
Cleric will be First Aid
Mage will be Brainstorm
Ranger will be Swerve cuz I need to have him in my team somehow.
 

KiTA

Member
That's also considered the worst Elminage ever, isn't it?

6/6/5/6. Apparently it drops the Western influences outright for a "pure" Japanese themed game. The art looks really weird, things like Nekomatas and the like look out of place in an Elminage game. :p
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Thanks for the class breakdown.

Is there any info on best races for each class? Like special weapons that only a certain race/class combo can use.

Basically best combos generally should be pretty easy to figure out with the stats + whats necessary for the class. So you shouldnt really have too much of an issue deciding.
 
Basically best combos generally should be pretty easy to figure out with the stats + whats necessary for the class. So you shouldnt really have too much of an issue deciding.

I know it is easy to figure out which race class combos work with stats, I was asking about items. That can change somewhat for endgame.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Elminage Ibun: Ame no Mihashira came out on the PSP a few months after Gothic, and they're currently working on a 3DS port of it.

You are kidding they are making a 3DS port of Ame no Mihashira? D:

-----

Btw Seda, is it possible to have another post added right under the OT. Since wanted to put in all the information by users into its own collection. Couldnt fit it all in the OT itself. Had just tried went at least 15k characters over...
 
Wow the difference in tone is jarring.
No wonder it bombed.

Thanks for all the great class info KiTA.
My current DPS isn't cutting it.
Ishmag underground
is a sizable bump in difficulty. I haven't even touched all the ore I've been accumulating so I could build some decent weapons now.

Plans for the future:

Swap out Thief for Alchemist -> Hunter
Turn Summoner to Alchemist to Cleric to spend the rest of the game as a Summoner. Eh she's an elf, she can afford to put on a few years(her HP growth is gonna remain shit forever it seems). The full stock of spells will be nice to have.
Kinda tempted to just make a new Summoner, but with a Dragon. Breath would give them something to do in battle, spell damage isn't particularly necessary, and I'll likely get a were-hunter for the ailment boost so I'll be short a dragon anyway.

Would like a Ninja in the party but if I can just summon a stupidly OP one(thanks Oath) that'll do as well hopefully.

Now if only I could find a better EXP grinding spot.
Best one I know of involves respawning lesser demons for 100k to 300k+ a battle.
 
Tremendously looking forward to this and hope it does well internationally----going to be interesting to see what kinds of adventuring parties folks manage to strangle a win out of the game with all things considered.
 

Seda

Member
Btw Seda, is it possible to have another post added right under the OT. Since wanted to put in all the information by users into its own collection. Couldnt fit it all in the OT itself. Had just tried went at least 15k characters over...

Not easily, just pop that into post 5.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Not easily, just pop that into post 5.

Made it a massive wall of text, but hopefully that helps folks with it at least being on the first page.
Oh yeah Ill have to add in a "review" section too once they start hitting the web. Will do that tomorrow. Totally forgot to make a banner for it. D: Am too used to doing import OTs thats why where I dont have to mess with reviews lol
When yours goes live let us know so I can add it to the OT. :D


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Incredibly informative OT, thanks for that.

Nicely done. And yeah. Dorarnae is a DC Scholar.

His vids of Elminage II/III/Gothic are what got me into the series.

Nice OT.

For the maps..that's kinda harsh but manageable. And what the hell? They must have put in considerable work into redrawing everything for the PC version. It looks great.

@Seda got the review going again?

Looks quite good. You're the best, Parakeetman.

Great OT thanks. Any recommendations for a well rounded party? Sounds like your basic Thief, Cleric, Mage, Fighter classes are most useful, but what about those hybrids like Alchemist or Brawler?

Thank you very much for the well-crafted OP.

Does anyone know if this game uses save states? I've never played these games and I'm a little wary of permanently whittling down characters in an 80+ hour game.

Thanks everyone the comments are much appreciated! A great round of applause for Dorarnae for a lot of the information provided within the OT itself and having taken the time to do the classes text and Dorarnae's tip section.
 

chubbytired

Neo Member
Installing now! Thanks for the fantastic OT and all the helpful advice being thrown around. I never really got much of a chance to play the old CRPGs when I was young. I had Xeen and Stonekeep but my ten year old self found them too archaic and just went back to playing Doom. I've been going through the Might and Magic series lately and had a blast and was just about to dive into the Wizardry side of blobbers but playing a 'new' release in the same vein seemed like a good way to play one of these along with some gaffers. Can't wait to get started!
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Installing now! Thanks for the fantastic OT and all the helpful advice being thrown around. I never really got much of a chance to play the old CRPGs when I was young. I had Xeen and Stonekeep but my ten year old self found them too archaic and just went back to playing Doom. I've been going through the Might and Magic series lately and had a blast and was just about to dive into the Wizardry side of blobbers but playing a 'new' release in the same vein seemed like a good way to play one of these along with some gaffers. Can't wait to get started!

Thanks! One thing for sure is the DRPG community is a small little hardcore one.

Will be doing a JDRPG community thread after am done with Dungeon Travelers 2 OT. Basically for all the Japaneses developed Dungeon RPGs out there.

Good luck!

Does in this I can get one-shotted by random encounter?
That is every DRPG game ever right?

Yep pretty much, since this game is closer to the true Wizardry experience all the bad things that usually can happen will happen. :)

At least not as bad as teleporting yourself into a wall though killing the whole party.
 

chubbytired

Neo Member
Thanks! One thing for sure is the DRPG community is a small little hardcore one.

Will be doing a JDRPG community thread after am done with Dungeon Travelers 2 OT. Basically for all the Japaneses developed Dungeon RPGs out there.

Good luck!

Excellent! I'll keep an eye out for that! I've really fallen in love with a lot of these games over the past couple years and any chance to learn more about them would be wonderful. Thanks again for all of your work! It's very much appreciated.
 
Thanks! One thing for sure is the DRPG community is a small little hardcore one.

Will be doing a JDRPG community thread after am done with Dungeon Travelers 2 OT. Basically for all the Japaneses developed Dungeon RPGs out there.

Good luck!

How bad is the fanservicey stuff in DT2?
Is the game good enough that it's worth putting up with that stuff or is the whole game saturated with it?
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
How bad is the fanservicey stuff in DT2?
Is the game good enough that it's worth putting up with that stuff or is the whole game saturated with it?

Pretty much the whole game is saturated with it unfortunately, though gameplay wise I can tell you that its one of the better crafted Wizardry hybrids out there. Great characters too. But yeah its built as a fan service game from the ground up. More so than Demon Gaze, so folks who were turned off by Demon Gaze unfortunately will not like Dungeon Travelers 2 also. Regardless of it being an excellent Wizardry style title.

The dungeon design, character advancement, amount of skills and difficulty of fights is all very well done. On top of the well written characters. But yeah once again the fanservice stuff is going to scare away a lot of folks. Ill have to make a disclaimer for the OT. Since Id rather have people talking about the game instead of whining about fanservice with no intention of even picking up the title. Which is what we do see on occasion unfortunately with other topics. D:

This may be a silly question, but does anyone know the correct pronunciation of Elminage?

I just pronounce it how its written in Japanese. Never gave it much thought actually lol
 

FlyinJ

Douchebag. Yes, me.
The game looks really good so far. A few questions:

I had my fighter sleep in a stable, and he leveled up. Apparently he lost some STR, and VIT but gained some LUC. Is this normal? Is this because I had him sleep in a stable?

Also, how to you access the map? It keeps saying "map not available"

EDIT: Whoa, I just loaded a save game from the main menu, and now my party is empty and there are only 2 characters available for recruitment in the inn?
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
The game looks really good so far. A few questions:

I had my fighter sleep in a stable, and he leveled up. Apparently he lost some STR, and VIT but gained some LUC. Is this normal? Is this because I had him sleep in a stable?

Also, how to you access the map? It keeps saying "map not available"

EDIT: Whoa, I just loaded a save game from the main menu, and now my party is empty and there are only 2 characters available for recruitment in the inn?

The stats going up / down will depend on things like race and age. Dont think having them sleep in the stables effects that.

The map is actually an item you need to buy from the shop and its a one time use sorta deal. So that might be one game system with this title thats going to throw people off big time. Esp considering how large some of these dungeons are.

Your last comment reminds me I need to find out where the tech support site is for the title so can leave a link for it up in the OT.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
The game looks really good so far. A few questions:

I had my fighter sleep in a stable, and he leveled up. Apparently he lost some STR, and VIT but gained some LUC. Is this normal? Is this because I had him sleep in a stable?

Also, how to you access the map? It keeps saying "map not available"

EDIT: Whoa, I just loaded a save game from the main menu, and now my party is empty and there are only 2 characters available for recruitment in the inn?

Your stats randomly change when you level up, where you sleep doesn't effect it. It's best to save before you level so you don't get screwed over.
 
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