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[Nanashrew]

Because most posters here aren't knowledgable.

Yep. Many go straight to the reactionary than rather ask about certain aspects.


OG Xbox on paper never reached what it said it could in real world performance. Meanwhile the 3DS specs being slightly lower than GameCube has made games that look on par with GameCube with modern libraries and instructions. Better shaders and all that neat stuff. The bottleneck was largely the CPU which has significantly improved now with n3DS.

Even if the NX's specs might sound a tad lower the XBO, it could find ways to be on par or exceed it in real world performance.

 

[Ogodei]

What's going to suck about this is even when Nintendo does reveal the console, you know they're not going to talk specs. It'll be weeks to months before we get a dieshot, and then a wild ride while GAF and everyone else tries to decipher it.

 

[ozfunghi]

I've always found it a bit odd these rumors have consistently pointed towards the NX being closer to the XB1 than the PS4. That seems very specific especially if you consider both home consoles fairly close to one another in terms of power.

I know I know - the PS4 has the edge, but that's something that wasn't exactly evident until we started seeing actual toe-to-toe software comparisons. I mean, what's making them say this? Are NX games rendering at a native 900p or something?

(By the way I ask this purely from curiosity, I infer nothing from this question.)

Allow me to quote myself:

She said 3 things that are important to me:

-She was very specific to talk about "RAW POWER" compared to XBO. Not performance.
-She said it was a modern and custom chip.
-She again stressed that the raw power comparison isn't telling the whole story. Apples/Oranges.

Now, when i think about a 3+ years more modern chip on XBO "raw power" scale... then i'm assuming it will be much more efficient, running on a (more) modern architecture and a modern feature set. Meaning it will easily outperform the chip it is being compared to of similar "raw power".

 

[georly]

I'm so sick of hardware rumours. I want software rumours.

Zelda NX will have voice acting.

Smash 4 is getting an NX port.

Mario maker/Splatoon are likely being considered for ports.

Some say luigi's mansion is coming. Some say retro is working on a new IP, not DKC/MP.

They're out there, but they're nothing fantastical.

 

[Kodaman]

a wild 10k appeared...

Spoiler

lol

 

[Vanillalite]

The Pro i7 uses the Iris GT540 with 800GFLOPS but the Shield TV loses out to even the Core i5 model that uses the Iris GT520 with 400GFLOPS.

The Intel CPU obviously helps in the physics benchmark, hence the stark difference there but the Tegra X1 sees no land in the graphics benchmark either.

The X1 is in one consumer device that has had a myriad of random ass problems. It's also had multiple firmware updates to fix all sorts of random shit cause Google shit the bed and just shat out the Pixel C before years end. Hell they didn't even announce a release date. One day it was just there to buy.

So I wouldn't pass judgement for or against the X1 chip based on all of the old review benchmarks for that device.

 

[NeonZ]

I'm so sick of hardware rumours. I want software rumours.

I think if you look at the overall information available you can have some idea about the software line up. Little to no support from Western third parties, but at least some initial support from Japanese 3rd parties, which have even mentioned the NX officially (SE's Dragon Quest and Koei), alongside some existing rumors, like Bandai-Namco developing/porting Smash for the NX's launch.

If the console/handheld with shared architecture speculation pans out, it'll likely mean consistent support from Japanese third parties and Nintendo itself, but little support aside from that. If that speculation turns out to be wrong, we're probably going to see a console with even worse support than the Wii U - at least as far as third parties go.

 

[clay_ghost]

Well, they're blind, because there's an obvious market for a Metroid game that isn't trash or looks like something the DSi spat up.

Agree, but having a powerful system does not means that this will happen. I was wondering why that poster come to the Conclusion that powerful system = New games for old IP. 3DS is weaker than Vita but kid Icarus got revived.

 

[shandy706]

What in the hell man...
Close in power to the XB1? This is gonna be a shittastrophy if even remotely true.

Have you seen the likes of Sunset Overdrive, Ryse, Forza, Quantum Break, etc.

Just above or at X1 capability in Nintendo hardware could deliver some incredible stuff.

 

[Beerman462]

Yep. Many go straight to the reactionary than rather ask about certain aspects.


OG Xbox on paper never reached what it said it could in real world performance. Meanwhile the 3DS specs being slightly lower than GameCube has made games that look on par with GameCube with modern libraries and instructions. Better shaders and all that neat stuff. The bottleneck was largely the CPU which has significantly improved now with n3DS.

Even if the NX's specs might sound a tad lower the XBO, it could find ways to be on par or exceed it in real world performance.

That's not how physics work.

 

[Vanillalite]

I think you've got the two confused. Nvidia's new chips are based on the Pascal arch.

Yeah I read Polaris in my mind, but I was trying to read the thread while folding clothes. My bad!

I still think the arch thing is slightly misleading even if Nvidia says the mobile chips share the same tech.

 

[Mediking]

Have you seen the likes of Sunset Overdrive, Ryse, Forza, Quantum Break, etc.

Just above or at X1 capability in Nintendo hardware could deliver some incredible stuff.

Power perception is huge in console gaming these days and it's refreshing to see this comment. Xbox One has some pretty games too. Sunset Overdrive, Forza, Ryse, Quantum Break are all great examples.

 

[Vena]

That's not how physics work.

AMD and NVidia use different metrics for specs.

 

[CronoShot]

That's not how physics work.

But...the special sauce...

 

[Ansatz]

So Nintendo is trying to get to a $250 home console and a $200 handheld?

If Nintendo's target is to get the casual audience back then lowering the barrier of entry is a crucial component. From seeing a trailer of a game to getting your hands on it should be made as cheap as possible. They recover the 'lost' revenue from stuff like DLC, Amiibo, in game purchases, etc.

 

[chadskin]

The X1 is in one consumer device that has had a myriad of random ass problems. It's also had multiple firmware updates to fix all sorts of random shit cause Google shit the bed and just shat out the Pixel C before years end. Hell they didn't even announce a release date. One day it was just there to buy.

So I wouldn't pass judgement for or against the X1 chip based on all of the old review benchmarks for that device.

The X1 is in two devices - the Google Pixel C and Nvidia's own Shield TV that launched late last year. I'd hope they know how to properly make use of their own chips.

 

[slapnuts]

None of it surprises me anyways, Nintendo just are too stiff necked to get back to a simple powerful traditional console, unfortunately. Would be nice to have a powerful Nintendo system on the level of the other big two consoles but like others have said....I wont be holding my breath on that happening again any time soon, that's for sure.

 

[KingBroly]

Agree, but having a powerful system does not means that this will happen. I was wondering why that poster come to the Conclusion that powerful system = New games for old IP. 3DS is weaker than Vita but kid Icarus got revived.

Kid Icarus was revived on a handheld because the expectations were low in terms of what people thought it could be. If they're unwilling to make a console Metroid game, they're not making it the best it could be.

 

[VanWinkle]

This is very unfortunate. Hope it turns out false.

 

[sfried]

Shouldn't we consolidate this and the SemiAccurate thread report about the chip supplier being nVidia?

I feel GAF has really lost its shit here.

 

[LordRaptor]

I'm getting a bit confused about the architecture differences here.

Is ARM as powerful or more powerful than x86?
And if so, then why did Sony and MS choose x86 over ARM?

Also, would development of ports be made more difficult with an ARM architecture?

To use a bad metaphor people will quibble, x86 is like an unabridged dictionary that has every word in the language in it and ARM is like a pocket dictionary that only contains words commonly used. A pocket Dictionary is more 'efficient' in only having the words most often used, and being smaller and easier to carry around.

Sony and MS went with x86 basically because - to extend the metaphor - they also needed a thesaurus, and the maker of the dictionary gave them a combo deal on an unabridged dictionary and thesaurus set. Neither of them give a shit about how much physical space that combo takes up because when they resell them they expect them to be bulky devices in a semi-permanent physical location.

Nintendos needs are more likely to be aimed at people that travel, so going with something smaller and less bulky makes more sense.

ARM is supported by basically every engine around, thats unlikely to be a deal breaker on ports.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

im dying lol

"whatever, graphics arent important anymore" lol

 

[Agent Unknown]

I don't think that's how it works.

If Wii U didn't get ports when all it did was match 360 and PS3 with a year left in the previous gen, how much of a difference is it going to make when based on this they're taking the same approach not to mention with both MS and Sony planning current gen upgrades? It's not just cynism to say third parties will probably have another power excuse if it's 'stretching it' that NX will even match XB1. But feel free to post away as to why I'm overreacting because I'd love to be proven wrong but current history coupled with this report doesn't give me confidence anything will improve significantly third party wise between Wii U and NX. At this point I'm expecting a full repeat.

 

[wild wild rice]

OK, I'll admit I was on TeamReal. But I'm also on Team no way this will be more powerful than XB1.

 

[Theanine3D]

Every public statement by Nintendo execs in the last several years has shown they still have no intention of competing with Sony and MS at their own game, a.k.a. specs. Wii U hasn't changed their company philosophy of trying to be unique.

If this news makes you feel betrayed, you really only have yourself to blame for deluding yourself with a fantasy that had no basis behind it whatsoever beyond rumors.

 

[Nanashrew]

That's not how physics work.

It's if they find a solution. We don't know what the performance will be. OG Xbox was bottlecapped badly but had better shaders and instructions etc. GameCube was still scene as plenty powerful too.

And maybe I exaggerated a bit too. Raw power on paper doesn't mean much until we get real world examples and a good look at the internals. OG Xbox was handicapped in many ways that prevented them from achieving the power and performance they wanted.

 

[Vanillalite]

The X1 is in two devices - the Google Pixel C and Nvidia's own Shield TV that launched late last year. I'd hope they know how to properly make use of their own chips.

I was going off the fact that if the games have to be ob and run the same they'd have to go off the mobile performance.

The shield TV isn't a mobile device. Only the Pixel C is. So that's the only actual mobile device we have to go off of in terms of specs.

TMP on the mobile device is different than the set top box. So you'd have to base the games on the lower end mobile TMP not the set top box.

 

[Jimrpg]

This makes a lot of sense for me and the clues are already in the information we have already.

The NX is a handheld which can also be used on a TV like iPhone to Apple TV, or if you like a portable Wii U tablet, or 3DS that beams to a TV.

Of course you have to go with a mobile CPU and not an x86 CPU because of the power draw. It's going to perform as well as a Samsung s7/ iPhone 6s. Which is fine for what Nintendo are going for.

 

[Fahzgoolin]

if it doesn't perform better than an XboxOne then I'm not buying at release. Nintendo pretending they don't have competitors is maddening.

 

[CronoShot]

This makes a lot of sense for me and the clues are already in the information we have already.

The NX is a handheld which can also be used on a TV like iPhone to Apple TV, or if you like a portable Wii U tablet, or 3DS that beams to a TV.

Of course you have to go with a mobile CPU and not an x86 CPU because of the power draw. It's going to perform as well as a Samsung s7/ iPhone 6s. Which is fine for what Nintendo are going for.

We already know it's not a hybrid.

Stop saying this.

 

[Sandfox]

If Wii U didn't get ports when all it did was match 360 and PS3 with a year left in the previous gen, how much of a difference is it going to make when based on this they're taking the same approach not to mention with both MS and Sony planning current gen upgrades? It's not just cynism to say third parties will probably have another power excuse if it's 'stretching it' that NX will even match XB1. But feel free to post away as to why I'm overreacting because I'd love to be proven wrong but current history coupled with this report doesn't give me confidence anything will improve significantly third party wise between Wii U and NX. At this point I'm expecting a full repeat.

The current gen consoles aren't going anywhere and the Wii U had plenty of problems. I don't see powner being the issue with trying to get 3rd party games.

 

[-Horizon-]

Do you really need to ask that question at this point? lol

Yeah, I guess somewhere in the back of my mind that was a rhetorical post lol.

Because most posters here aren't knowledgable.

Yeah I myself am NOWHERE near knowledgeable about this stuff but its interesting to read.

A lot of people's thinking on the matter is rooted in the outdated notion that different architectures would be massive roadblocks to porting (they're not unless you're crazy and go 100% assembly).

Also there's probably some overestimation of the Xbone/PS4 CPUs and underestimation of ARM CPUs mixed in there.

So its reasonable then that this current rumor isn't the "doom" as some paint it to be?

It would be harder, because you're writing testing code for a different architecture with its own idiosyncrasies, but it wouldn't be a dealbreaker due to computational power.

Nintendo actually showing this console can't come soon enough.

 

[Malakai]

So Nintendo is trying to get to a $250 home console and a $200 handheld?

Hopefully, both come with a full price game at that price point or $199 home console and $139 handheld....

 

[Portugeezer]

So... shit third party support if true.

I don't really care about that, I just want Nintendo to step their own game up, and I hope merging the portable and home divisions will help that.

 

[CronoShot]

The current gen consoles aren't going anywhere and the Wii U had plenty of problems. I don't see powner being the issue with trying to get 3rd party games.

It is one of many issues the Wii U had. Not addressing it certainly won't help their cause.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

So much for my support, unless Nintendo delivers something I can't resist. I won't be there.

 

[z0m3le]

So just to point out, if this: "The chips are industry leading because they are very modern chips" is true, it is probably 14nm APU, meaning "GCN2" or as many just call it, polaris is almost impossible to avoid with AMD. Nintendo would have to pay to shrink the other architectures down from 28nm.

My guess is the GPU is 1TFLOP, but in the "GCN2" architecture, allowing it to out perform XB1 and even match PS4 in some situations thanks to the much faster CPU (~15%-30% faster than XB1's CPU which is about ~9% faster than PS4's)

Unless Emily knows it isn't 14nm or isn't the same architecture as polaris, there is really nothing here that disproves "Polaris" here in the way it is being used.

 

[sfried]

just to play devils advocate... Is it possible Nintendo had at some point two NX devkits out one using arm/NVidia and another that was using AMD Polaris. Or maybe devs have been mixing up the handheld and the home console all along. We all know these are just rumors but to have this much different "sourced" information tells me something is wrong....

Spoiler

with the sources

It would be really funny if "Surprise, ALL of the rumors were true" and you have one device powered by nVidia while another powered by AMD.

 

[MuchoMalo]

a wild 10k appeared...

Spoiler

lol

Well, at least he's consistent.

I still don't 100% believe Emily either though. She only said one thing that was extremely suspect, but for someone like me that's enough to cast doubt.

So just to point out, if this: "The chips are industry leading because they are very modern chips" is true, it is probably 14nm APU, meaning "GCN2" or as many just call it, polaris is almost impossible to avoid with AMD. Nintendo would have to pay to shrink the other architectures down from 28nm.

My guess is the GPU is 1TFLOP, but in the "GCN2" architecture, allowing it to out perform XB1 and even match PS4 in some situations thanks to the much faster CPU (~15%-30% faster than XB1's CPU which is about ~9% faster than PS4's)

Unless Emily knows it isn't 14nm or isn't the same architecture as polaris, there is really nothing here that disproves "Polaris" here in the way it is being used.

This is assuming that it's even AMD.

 

[jdstorm]

Have you seen the likes of Sunset Overdrive, Ryse, Forza, Quantum Break, etc.

Just above or at X1 capability in Nintendo hardware could deliver some incredible stuff.

Especially since Vulkan is just around the corner and it seems to be creating some serious performance gains.
The X1 can run a fully featured Frostbyte engine at 720/60. Throw in close to double that power and that's nothing to shake your head at.

Spoiler

especially if these rumours are based on a handheld with a 720p screen. A portable that could run a fully featured SW Battlefront, or Mass Effect would be a game changer at those rumoured prices

It would be really funny if "Surprise, ALL of the rumors were true" and you have one device powered by nVidia while another powered by AMD.

I think it's much more likely a slightly uninformed source is confusing AMDs Polaris architecture with Nividas Pascal architecture, both which are set to release in the appropriate time frame. If these rumours turn out to be true a 20nm Pascal chip from Nivida seems the most likely outcome

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Emily is pretty much always right on Nintendo rumors. So, I would take this as gospel. No x86 confirmed.

 

[Portugeezer]

I'm so sick of hardware rumours. I want software rumours.

We know that Retro are making a game. I know, shocking.

 

[Sandfox]

It is one of many issues the Wii U had. Not addressing it certainly won't help their cause.

Yeah, but I wouldn't call it the "final nail in the coffin".

 

[Scum]

I'm leaning back toward my initial reaction that the home console might be a set top version of the handheld's hardware, and thus both are ARM or NVIDIA mobile setups.

We did just get a Chinese console announced that runs on a Tegra K1 and is getting 360/PS3 games ported to it.

A PS Vita/PS VitaTV style setup.

 

[Regiruler]

What?

x86 is, by any reasonable measure, the most "old and busted" ISA in common use today (unless you're counting z/Architecture as being in common usage). The ISA is ten years older than ARM and about 15 years older than PowerPC. The complexities of using such an "old and busted" architecture are why it can't compete against ARM in the low-power segment, and its dominance in higher thermal envelopes is pretty much entirely down to a combination of legacy compatibility and Intel's massive R&D budget. And, for that matter, current chips like Skylake only manage to get the performance they do by translating x86 into low-level RISC microcode on the fly to avoid having to implement such an "old and busted" instruction set in full.

Dp you perchance have any insight on how well PowerPC scales down? It's RISC like ARM, so I was curious.

 

[Ogodei]

The lowball MSRP's people have been quoting in this and the previous thread are frankly more ludicrous than the "PS4k level" speculation. Folks are talking about them releasing a console as cheap as they're retailing some 3DS models and cheaper than Wii U right now?

 

[Champion]

Emily is pretty much always right on Nintendo rumors. So, I would take this as gospel. No x86 confirmed.

She definitely wasn't with the Wii U. And what the hell is almost always?

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

10K is saying these rumors are wrong and very vocally. I know we dont care about what he saying but still.


I cant believe we gotta wait X more months of this shit..

 

[Vanillalite]

Again no reason for the console to cost more than the handheld if that's what this is.

If they are gonna run the same games you'd have to base this on the mobile hardware.

Even if it's the same chip in a set top box like console you'd have performance gaps between the two devices as the set top box would have different TMP constraints vs the handheld.

I doubt Nintendo would be ok with performance differences.

So you'd literally use the same setup.

 

[Agent Unknown]

It is one of many issues the Wii U had. Not addressing it certainly won't help their cause.

Yep.