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[spwolf]

And to everyone who says that sensitivity towards racism is just an American thing, remember that the institutionalized slavery of African peoples was started by Europeans: its effects were global, and they still resonate today.

generalize much? It is an American thing, like it or not.

I come from European country (one of many), that has never had slaves or traded slaves, thank you very much. We have had our issues in past, but no need to pin another one on us.

In case you did not realize, America is not the world, despite whatever notion let you believe otherwise. Complete world does not carry the baggage of enslaving another race.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

generalize much? It is an American thing, like it or not.

I come from European country (one of many), that has never had slaves or traded slaves, thank you very much. We have had our issues in past, but no need to pin another one on us.

In case you did not realize, America is not the world, despite whatever notion let you believe otherwise. Complete world does not carry the baggage of enslaving another race.

The poster is right the slave trade did originate in Europe. Like it or not, it's true. Maybe not your country, but it did come from Europe.

 

[Scottlarock]

I thought this was a old thread, I guess not. Can I get cliffnotes on whats going on? I'm guessing its more than having black bad guys because its in africa. cliffnotes please.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I thought this was a old thread, I guess not. Can I get cliffnotes on whats going on? I'm guessing its more than having black bad guys because its in africa. cliffnotes please.

Apparently one reviewer.....no I can't do it justice, just drop back 2 pages and you'll be fine.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

parts of Africa != all of Africa. problem is, most people don't seem to know that. and their stereotypes are shaped from there.

I'm sure the game will be fun. I think it just unintentionally also reinforces some generalities and stereotypes. hopefully not too many, though.

Now if I see a KFC in the Shanty town, I'll be officially offended. :lol

this.

blackhawk down seemed scary to me and it was in somalia, right? i realize that they actually identify the country the film is set in, and it's based on history, but RE5 is not only science fiction but also set in an unspecified african locale.

we don't even know the fictional history of the fictional setting. for all we know later in the game they explain how the country was constantly bombarded by warlords and they have freed themselves from them by being fiercely independent and acting hostile towards any outsiders. it's the only way they can survive. WE DON'T KNOW YET.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

Hey guys whats going on in this thr....

...................................buh?

 

[TheMostGorgeous]

The imagery can't be racist and anyone who makes such a suggestion is an idiot because it is a game i like in a game series i like and it is a game and i play games.

 

[TheMostGorgeous]

So basically Capcom gets fucked for something that happened before they even existed. :lol

Yeah, I hate it when game companies have to be conscious of the real world rather than just my isolated gamerland bubble. :lol

 

[ultim8p00]

My conclusion? The people dismissing this issue as "petty" and "ridiculous" are not understanding this because they are just refusing to understand. End of discussion. You are certainly free to live in your own little world were racism never existed and people have "agendas" and what not.

By the way this "agenda" thing is getting a little stale. Why do I always here that from the same predictable sources?

 

[timetokill]

Racial sensitivity versus freedom of expression. Dammit, how does one reconcile this?

Freedom of expression every time. Every damn time.

 

[Hwang Seong-Gyeong]

It's ironic that some people are claiming she's not black enough because they're stereotyping the way black people look by making that argument.

The Masai are tall and lanky, and they don't have broad noses. Sheva has the same body type.

 

[Warren Ellis]

The poster is right the atlantic slave trade did originate in Europe. Like it or not, it's true. Maybe not your country, but it did come from Europe.

fixed.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

fixed.

Far enough, I though that's what was meant. Obviously the slave trade as a whole dates back to antiquity.

 

[gutter_trash]

forget about it

 

[Truant]

Freedom of expression every time. Every damn time.

Above all. Never forget this.

 

[Truant]

The poster is right the slave trade did originate in Europe. Like it or not, it's true. Maybe not your country, but it did come from Europe.

So did America. We're all guilty.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

So did America. We're all guilty.

I'm not saying it didn't occur here. I'm just talking about the historical origins of the Atlantic Slave Trade.

 

[Truant]

It was a joke, I was pointing out that America originated from Europe.

Pretty much every nation has done terrible things to other people. Some continue to do so. After reading this thread, I've come to realise that racism is very different in america for non-racist people. I guess some good came out of this thread, after all.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

It was a joke, I was pointing out that America originated from Europe.

Pretty much every nation has done terrible things to other people. Some continue to do so. After reading this thread, I've come to realise that racism is very different in america for non-racist people. I guess some good came out of this thread, after all.

 

[spwolf]

The poster is right the slave trade did originate in Europe. Like it or not, it's true. Maybe not your country, but it did come from Europe.

what you cant understand (apperantly), is that europe is an continent full of different nations/cultures/people... fact that british/spanish or whoever else traded slaves got nothing to do with my people/nation/culture.

Europe is not an single country, and we do not see ourselves that way. You might, but thats only your ignorance.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

This. My God, THIS.

For my own part, though, I remain confused.

On one hand, you owuld have to be blind to miss the way in which Capcom have exploited cultural and historical iconography to evoke menace in RE5, i.e the notion of the black savage, dark continent, et cetera.

However, I'm still not sure if I would go so far as to say that Capcom shouldn't be able to evoke these images and exploit them. The stereotypes they utilise are archaic, but effective nonetheless.

Racial sensitivity versus freedom of expression. Dammit, how does one reconcile this?

There's not much to reconcile, really. They are allowed to put such imagery in a game but they should expect a shitstorm.

Freedom of expression doesn't mean freedom of expression without consequences.

 

[ultim8p00]

what you cant understand (apperantly), is that europe is an continent full of different nations/cultures/people... fact that british/spanish or whoever else traded slaves got nothing to do with my people/nation/culture.

Europe is not an single country, and we do not see ourselves that way. You might, but thats only your ignorance.

I think you might be missing the point. Slave Trade didn't necessarily originate from your country or some other European country, but it did originated from Europe. Though Europe is a continent consisting of different nations, it is the continent where slavery originated.

Neither of you is wrong. He's being general, and you are being specific. In this case, we can't pinpoint exactly which country started it first (idk), so it's more practical to say it started in Europe.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I think you might be missing the point. Slave Trade didn't necessarily originate from your country or some other European country, but it did originated from Europe. Though Europe is a continent consisting of different nations, it is the continent where slavery originated.

Neither of you is wrong. He's being general, and you are being specific. In this case, we can't pinpoint exactly which country started it first (idk), so it's more practical to say it started in Europe.

Bingo, it would help if he just said what country he is from.

It's hard to be specific, because it depends what time in history we are talking about the slave trade. I mean slave trading occur in Roman days and in the 16-19th century.

 

[Threi]

what in the fuck at this thread.

i mean there is some great discussion (somewhat) but this thread went in a hell of a tangent :lol

 

[Furret]

I think you might be missing the point. Slave Trade didn't necessarily originate from your country or some other European country, but it did originated from Europe. Though Europe is a continent consisting of different nations, it is the continent where slavery originated.

Neither of you is wrong. He's being general, and you are being specific. In this case, we can't pinpoint exactly which country started it first (idk), so it's more practical to say it started in Europe.

No, you're being an idiot.

Europe is a continent. It exists only as geographical concept.

It is not a single cultural or political (certainly not then and only in the vaguest terms now) entity.

You might as well say slavery started on planet Earth and it would hardly be any less specific.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Didn't it begin in Africa?

 

[beelzebozo]

people are looking at this in the wrong way. take the "video games as an outlet for violence that would otherwise be directed at others" argument and apply it to the racism here.

now klan members have a game that can alleviate their need to go burn crosses and attack people on the streets. you know? the game is practically a public service.

 

[morningbus]

No, you're being an idiot.

Europe is a continent. It exists only as geographical concept.

It is not a single cultural or political (certainly not then and only in the vaguest terms now) entity.

You might as well say slavery started on planet Earth and it would hardly be any less specific.

It is about as stupid as saying slavery existed in North America. It may be vague, but it isn't wrong.

And if we really want to play this game: not every state in the U.S. had slavery either!

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

No, you're being an idiot.

Europe is a continent. It exists only as geographical concept.

It is not a single cultural or political (certainly not then and only in the vaguest terms now) entity.

You might as well say slavery started on planet Earth and it would hardly be any less specific.

Economically Europe is extremely connected then just as it was now via trade. Trade often will transcend culture, nations, and politics.

It is about as stupid as saying slavery existed in North America. It may be vague, but it isn't wrong.

And if we really want to play this game: not every state in the U.S. had slavery either!

Very true, hell certain states were admitted into the Union based just on the fact they were a free state.

Also serfdom was a form of slavery and it didn't only exist in Russia.

 

[wenis]

This thread has been......errr well entertaining. I guess what I get from it is I should buy the game as soon as it's out before there is a public outroar and capcom pulls the title for edits so that they can make all the enemies grey and they bleed green blood.

 

[HiResDes]

Again, and this is why ngais article was already silly: Capcom´s not using racist imagery, but clichee imagery. Clichees are used every day, and the clichee in this case is "black africa = dangerous country with unfamiliar population", which is true to some extent, though for different reasons of course. I mean, here in Europe it´s still special when you see a black guy, i´d say that´s even a lot worse in Japan.

Though, whatever: THIS is not what RE5 does wrong. It has many other, real faults...



PS: Though i have to agree: Sheva being a very light tone black girl and even very "western body figure" IS racist. I think a "real black" girl would be simply not attractive enough for many gamers, so Capcom choose to use a "brown black" girl.

If Capcom had made all of the inhabitants of the village and Sheva as dark as say Wesley Snipes then they would have also been accused of being racist, or of stereotyping, really the whole idea was just a lose-lose situation.

The really odd thing about the game is that the Africans behave exactly like the ganados who were Spaniards, when in fact the a.i. should behave in an entirely different way, one of the Africans has a standard modern mic in his hand...But the rest of the village seems to be stuck in a much more barbaric state, Capcom really needs to decide whether these are sophisticated people are not. Are they as organized as some of the cutscenes portray? And if so, why is there no communication between these people? If anything I'm offended by the blandness, and cookie cutter approach Capcom has taken to the area, only really putting old enemy types into new colored skins.

 

[HiResDes]

You are not in the minority and I fully and completely agree with your analysis of the predicament Capcom is in. It goes to show, there is absolutely no way Capcom can win. Sadly I feel it all falls back to the feeling of entitlement by certain peoples, race and creed aside. It is absolutely fucking ridiculous that this "situation" has progressed to where it is.

White man beating on poor and otherwise impoverished African peoples is outrageous!!

So Capcom adds a racial cocktail to the mix. Not enough they say . Now the annihilation of all third world citizen is claimed. Capcom adds a partner to chris, absolutely brand new character to the series, who happens to be black. Black? No not black enough, she needs to be a bit more "African" they say.

Honestly, HONESTLY. No one is owed anything in life and the sense of entitlement people have in this world is completely ghastly. Slavery is a wretched, cruel and unacceptable act and those who have been exposed to it, now or then, have my highest sympathy. THIS DOES NOT mean you are owed a damn thing. Reparations aside, the martyr complex certain minorities have is vile. A single mother with three children and no place to sleep is without a doubt a sad situation. But because she is in this sorry state, because she has nothing and I have something, does she deserve my charity? Is my money, my comforts OWED to her? Does she deserve them more then I do because she is in need?

No. No she does not.

If you are a Christian, which I truly hope you are not, you just might be the biggest hypocrite I've ever witnessed. And if you call yourself human, then you should ask yourself what separates a humane who solely believes in the survival of the fittest, from an ape or a lion. No actually you're lower, because even those species make sacrifices in order to ensure the well being of their overall species.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

The really odd thing about the game is that the Africans behave exactly like the ganados who were Spaniards, when in fact the a.i. should behave in an entirely different way, one of the Africans has a standard modern mic in his hand...But the rest of the village seems to be stuck in a much more barbaric state, .

Well didn't certain Ganados have the ability to use technology, but didn't. I mean contrast the military ones with the village ones in RE4. They could have used weapons, but for some reason choose to use low tech. Also the megaphone guy could have been someone like Mendez in 4. I mean Saddler and a bunch of Las Plagas people even call to annoy Leon on his video phone (which generated some great dialogue).

 

[Regulus Tera]

I think you might be missing the point. Slave Trade didn't necessarily originate from your country or some other European country, but it did originated from Europe. Though Europe is a continent consisting of different nations, it is the continent where slavery originated.

This is false. Cultures like Egypt, Mesopotamia and China employed slaves centuries before the continent of Europe were even relevant in universal history.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

This is false. Cultures like Egypt, Persia and China employed slaves centuries before Europe were even relevant.

Well not in regard to the Atlantic slave trade. Like I said you have to be specific to the area being talked about.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Well not in regard to the Atlantic slave trade. Like I said you have to be specific to the area being talked about.

Slave trade still existed. Traces of slavery are as old as the beginning of recorded history, which is why I find it a disservice to say "slavery originated in Europe". The subjugation of other individuals is another one of the multiple facets of humanity.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Slave trade still existed. Traces of slavery are as old as the beginning of recorded history, which is why I find it a disservice to say "slavery originated in Europe". The subjugation of other individuals is another one of the multiple facets of humanity.

Yeah, but the discussion was over the Atlantic slave trade, which did originate in Europe.

Anyhow Kotaku preview is in and they didn't seem to find any appalling racism.

http://kotaku.com/5148227/resident-evil-5-preview-a-building-sense-of-dread

 

[sonicmj1]

Slave trade still existed. Traces of slavery are as old as the beginning of recorded history, which is why I find it a disservice to say "slavery originated in Europe". The subjugation of other individuals is another one of the multiple facets of humanity.

Slavery, as an institution, has far-flung and diverse roots in many territories across the globe.

I believe we are primarily concerned with the Atlantic slave trade here, though, as that is the example most pertinent to our discussion of colonial race relations in Africa. That trade was begun by the continental European powers. It's not something that America solely bears responsibility for, which I believe is where this debate began.