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[Cow Mengde]

How about we blame both? Lack of PS3 and Lair sucking.

 

[zoku88]

System PS3 has X number of units in consumers hands, it becomes a whole lot harder to sell software when there aren't that many people out there who can, you know, actually buy it.

Yea, but if they made a better game, it probably would have sold more....

It's not like developers are losing money because they developing for the ps3....

I guess if there were more ps3s, it would have sold more even if it did suck (like, some wii games,) but bad games dont deserve to sell well anyway.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

 

[EmCeeGramr]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lIzqKAFV4-s
How low can we go?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=l0MI2t_u5No&feature
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqNRoooy5Ak

 

[KernelPanic]

Well, they should be getting funding by nintendo, no?
Any truth to that rumor that sony shoved motion controls down Factor 5's throats?

Phil Harrison said that Sony never forces anything and that all decisions were Factor 5's regarding Lair.

 

[jmonteiro]

If Factor 5 die like this it'll be quite a sad day for videogaming. Considering what they contributed towards the industry before Lair.

I agree, they don't deserve to go down like this but unfortunately this might be true. I have 2 good friends that used to work there and left soon after Lair... Also they were not the only 2 to leave, lots of people left.

I wish them all the luck. Factor 5's best bet is Nintendo, they have cash and they could use Factor 5 to develop sequels to some old franchises.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

System PS3 has X number of units in consumers hands, it becomes a whole lot harder to sell software when there aren't that many people out there who can, you know, actually buy it.

X amount of owners of X system are less likely to buy X game when reviewers only give it X out of a possible X.

X is equal to or > The Bird.

 

[industrian]

Shoot, can't F5 just help port and fund a Turrican Sequal in the style of Megaman-9?

The problem with any possible revival is that the rights to Turrican are held by both Factor 5 and THQ (one holds worldwide-with-exception-of-Germany rights, and the other just has rights to Germany - the majority of Turrican's fanbase is German).

One possible good thing that might come out of this is that the Turrican rights are fully acquired by THQ, and they can give Manfred Trenz a good budget and a good dev team. 99% not going to happen, but a guy can dream.

They made the Battle of Hoth into a videogame staple almost singlehandedly.

I wasn't just meaning Factor 5's (pretty impressive) lineup of games. They also did a lot of good stuff regarding games technology. For example: without Factor 5, no Gamecube game would use Pro Logic 2.

 

[DemonSwordsman]

How about we blame both? Lack of PS3 and Lair sucking.

Ok but Heavenly sword, uncharted, warhawk, rachet and clank all came out the same time. Are ND, Ninja Theory, or Insominac going under? All those games did good because they were good games.

 

[industrian]

Ok but Heavenly sword, uncharted, warhawk, rachet and clank all came out the same time. Are ND, Ninja Theory, or Insominac going under? All those games did good because they were good games.

Naughty Dog and Insomniac are held close to their mother's teat. Ninja Theory and Factor 5 were fed from the bottle.

 

[Stop It]

Insomniac only developers for the PS3. I don't hear any reports of them having trouble paying their employees or possibly going under.

I think that may have something to do with 3 things that they have done that Factor 5 haven't:

1: Created a string of games that have been well received critically and while not best sellers initially, have sold through quite a bit as essential back catalogue titles for PS3 (Buy Resistance 2).

2: For better or worse, they have stayed loyal to SCE for over 12 years, while Factor 5 jumped ship twice in a few years (Nintendo to Sony, Sony to ...er...near doom), burning bridges along the way.

3: They have actually made games on time, and have managed more than 1 title this gen, Factor 5 have always took their time to make their games, but in LAIR they really seemed to have all their eggs firmly placed in one basket, which promptly broken the moment LAIR hit the shelves.

Naughty Dog and Insomniac are held close to their mother's teat. Ninja Theory and Factor 5 were fed from the bottle.

While Insomniac are independent, they have certainly been adopted by SCEA, which of course, has resulted in some awesome games, I would say less breast fed, more over doting adoptive parents.

 

[theBishop]

I wonder if the technology that powered Lair would be worth licensing. They probably have at least portions of cell-optimized subsystems they could license out. That is, if Sony doesn't own the tech.

 

[Hwang Seong-Gyeong]

I won't miss Factor 4.5, their previous games before Lair were pretty bad.

 

[Bebpo]

Factor 5 doesn't make good games. They make pretty games, but not good games. so it won't be a shame to see them go. Hopefully the employees find jobs at better developers headed by better project leaders.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Anyone saying F5 hasn't made good games is delusional. RS1 was excellent. It's a shame they didn't stick with the formula for the sequels.

 

[Hwang Seong-Gyeong]

I haven't seen anybody ever put a Factor 5 game in their hypelist, or "games you want to be made" list.

So really, before this new I doubt many people were anticapating anything from them.

 

[jrricky]

Ok but Heavenly sword, uncharted, warhawk, rachet and clank all came out the same time. Are ND, Ninja Theory, or Insominac going under? All those games did good because they were good games.

depends on what doing 'good' is the context of knowing how much money went into those games too. Oh and heavenly sword wasnt good either.

a sad thing when a company goes out though, but betting on the wrong horse was a factor in them surviving or not.

 

[jmonteiro]

This is really bad analysis from 1up. The last game Factor 5 released wasn't profitable, this has less to do with the economy but from the industry being about "blockbuster to blockbuster".

Factor 5 made a bad bet on going with the PS3. Had they gone multiplatform or stuck with Nintendo, they'd be in a much stronger position.

Actually, it's more like Sony made a bad bet going with Lair / Factor 5. Factor 5 needed the funding and pitched Lair to Sony. Factor 5 didn't care who funded the game, it didn't matter if it was Sony, Nintendo or MS. Anyway, in the end the deal hurt both companies a lot but I still think Sony lost more than Factor 5. Lair did hurt the PS3 a lot and did cost Sony a shit load of money

Good thing that Sony managed to pull out before Factor 5's second game (Sony had an option for a 2nd game from Factor 5).

 

[MadOdorMachine]

The problem with their last two games were that they were trying to do on foot gameplay, which they aren't good at. They need to either stick with flight only or try a racer or something in first person. It's just not what they're good at. They are trying to be something they are not. I think they could potentially be for Nintendo what id is for PC. They need to continue to fill their niche until they can hire the appropriate people to help them with third person gameplay if that's they avenue they want to pursue. Until then, they need to recognize their limits.

 

[Zenith]

Factor 5 must learn to make a new game instead of remaking Star Wars flight combat again and again and again.

 

[Hwang Seong-Gyeong]

Who needs their Lair engine? It's PS3 exclusive, most developers make multiplat games and want something that can work on PS3, 360, and PC.

Plus I doubt they can provide a competitive toolkit compared to UE3.

 

[Darklord]

Factor 5 must learn to make a new game instead of remaking Star Wars flight combat again and again and again.

If it's as good as the first few, then no I want more of that!

 

[jmonteiro]

Phil Harrison said that Sony never forces anything and that all decisions were Factor 5's regarding Lair.

Correct, I'm pretty sure Eggebrecht is to blame on that stupid decision (motion controls only). I believe he even admitted to it in some interview. The worst is that even after reviews destroyed the controls he took too long to admit he was wrong and patch the damn game.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think that may have something to do with 3 things that they have done that Factor 5 haven't:

1: Created a string of games that have been well received critically and while not best sellers initially, have sold through quite a bit as essential back catalogue titles for PS3 (Buy Resistance 2).

BINGO! And this is why F5's situation isn't Sony's fault. In fact, had Lair been a success, or at least a quality product, they'd still be going fine because from what I recall they had a multi game deal with Sony that fell through after the Lair reception.

 

[Deleted member 20415]

Well, at least they have that money Nintendo gave them to do Kid Icarus, right guys?

 

[theBishop]

Correct, I'm pretty sure Eggebrecht is to blame on that stupid decision (motion controls only). I believe he even admitted to it in some interview. The worst is that even after reviews destroyed the controls he took too long to admit he was wrong and patch the damn game.

Even still, the motion controls were not the worst part of that game. The air combat is imprecise and the camera is incredibly disorienting.

And they failed to deliver the things that looked cool in the original trailers. Leaping from dragon-to-dragon and jamming a spear through the neck of the rider should be unprecedented levels of awesome. They turned it into a weak QTE.

 

[travisbickle]

I guess they can't get funding from Microsoft after they talked down their platform to help hype the PS3 and Lair. I always thought Factor-5 and Microsoft would have been a good fit together.

They talked down the 360?

 

[Ghost]

I hope Factor 5 can survive, they were a massive part of my life growing up. Though having said that their history is plagued by questionable brand loyalty, they haven't put the right game on the right system this century.

Hope their Wii game can save them.

 

[MoogPaul]

This is when Nintendo puts all that crazy Wii money to good use by, instead of funding a Wii game, buy 51% of the studio.

edit: hell or even squeenix since apparently they have money burning a hole in their pocket.

 

[NotWii]

Battle of Hoth was first in Shadows of the Empire, which has nothing to do with Factor 4.5! And I think it was coolest there

I'm not too sure about the specifics but actually a few Factor 5 employees worked on SOTE to my understanding.

False.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBpYE_GI3Xk#t=02m45s

Yeah... but SOTE was the first time it felt like the films

 

[DDayton]

The problem with any possible revival is that the rights to Turrican are held by both Factor 5 and THQ (one holds worldwide-with-exception-of-Germany rights, and the other just has rights to Germany - the majority of Turrican's fanbase is German).

Although that wouldn't explain why the Virtual Console releases of the various Turrican games give full/only credit to Factor 5.

 

[[Nintex]]

Damn, it seems that with all these economic problems alot of devs and publishers which had a few bombs or a few tough years end up on the chopping block.

I knew that Factor 5 just couldn't be profitable, they released like one game every few years and most of them either didn't sell or the profits were divided between other parties. They had to lay off a bunch of people during the development of LAIR if I recall correctly, after they hired like crazy when they needed to push RS3 out of the door.

 

[AndyD]

It has a lot more to do with Lair being a bad game than it being on the PS3. It would've so poorly no matter the system it was on.

This. It wasnt an awful game, but not as great as it should have been from them. And it would have bombed regardless as it was.

 

[DemonSwordsman]

depends on what doing 'good' is the context of knowing how much money went into those games too. Oh and heavenly sword wasnt good either.

a sad thing when a company goes out though, but betting on the wrong horse was a factor in them surviving or not.

Resistance, Rachet, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted all sold over a million atleast. Probably much more that that now for Uncharted and Resistance.

Heavenly Sword may not have been the best game ever, but it was pretty good. Even so i dont see Ninja Theory going out of business.

You would have an argument if Lair had been a good game and still bombed but it wasn't a good game..

 

[Deleted member 284]

They talked down the 360?

Didn't they (somewhat) talk down the Wii?

 

[MoogPaul]

Didn't they (somewhat) talk down the Wii?

pretty sure they coined "gamecube 1.5"

http://kotaku.com/gaming/nintendo/factor-5-dont-jive-with-wii-210512.php

 

[AndyD]

Didn't they (somewhat) talk down the Wii?

They just said it couldnt do HD and they wanted to do a cutting edge game. So yes they downplayed it, but they didnt lie or say anything that wasnt true.

 

[farnham]

Factor 5 doesn't make good games. They make pretty games, but not good games. so it won't be a shame to see them go. Hopefully the employees find jobs at better developers headed by better project leaders.

the rogue squadron series is pretty good

pretty and good

 

[Cow Mengde]

Didn't they (somewhat) talk down the Wii?

No, they did not. The talked down the Wii 3rd party efforts, and the Wii's sound capabilities (which is just the GC, and was made by... FACTOR 5).

 

[Mario]

This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the economy, does it?

Yes, it does.

Whats happening is the credit crunch and stock market falls have made it harder for publishers to fund projects. In order to cut their overheads, many publishers have cut staff and cut back projects (especially ones beyond the end of 2009). This has a flow on effect to developers having projects cut and budgets reduced, making it harder to find work.

We are going to see more of this news in the coming months (though in this case it hasn't been confirmed officially).

What is more concerning is that this is only the effect of the economy in general. I'm predicting even greater cutbacks early next year on the back of what will happen in videogame retail this Christmas (too many good games across too many platforms which cost too much to make) on top of softer consumer spending. A lot of expensive games will underperform which will see more publisher belt tightening in Q1.

Expect a bunch of developer closures in March next year and a sombre GDC 2009.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Factor 5 NOT in trouble!

A writer for 1up came across my blog and read some information that was then twisted around and misinterpreted to mean something else. I’d like to clarify what exactly is going on.

Steve Watts of 1UP wrote that I said Factor 5 cut one of their main projects, a comic book superhero game, and that’s a complete lie. It was a big story in the news that we recently lost a publisher, Brash Entertainment, when they went out of business. This does not mean that we’ve stopped production on that game, or that it was ever even in trouble. The other projects currently under way at Factor 5 are doing great. We hadn’t received payment because of the situation with Brash, which is why I said I needed to look elsewhere for work.

Factor 5 is not going under, and I don’t know why Steve Watts quoted me saying so. Don’t believe every rumor that is posted on the internet, especially if it has been spun to create a story that is far from the truth.

http://mistasam.blogspot.com/2008/12/1upcom-misinterpretation.html

 

[theBishop]

Yes, it does.

Whats happening is the credit crunch and stock market falls have made it harder for publishers to fund projects. In order to cut their overheads, many publishers have cut staff and cut back projects (especially ones beyond the end of 2009). This has a flow on effect to developers having projects cut and budgets reduced.

We are going to see more of this news in the coming months.

What is more concerning is that this is only the effect of the economy in general. I'm predicting even greater cutbacks early next year on the back of what will happen in videogame retail this Christmas (too many good games across too many platforms which cost too much to make) on top of softer consumer spending. A lot of expensive games will underperform which will see more publisher belt tightening in Q1.

Expect a bunch of developer closures in March next year and a sombre GDC 2009.

You think cheaper download games might benefit from the slump? I'm going to be catching up on late 08 games well into next summer (Fallout3, Fable2, Gears2, Mirror's Edge, etc). It would be kinda cool to see these games get a 2nd marketing wind while PSN/XBLA/WiiWare games make up the bulk of new releases.

 

[chespace]

Bummer. Good luck to these guys.

What a crappy time to be dealing with this sort of stuff.

 

[Truespeed]

They talked down the 360?

By "talking down" he means they didn't praise the 360 like they did the PS3.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Factor 5 NOT in trouble!



http://mistasam.blogspot.com/2008/12/1upcom-misinterpretation.html

Oh 1up :lol

 

[Cellbomber]

Lair wasn't as horrible as everyone made it out to be. It had a few frustrating elements to it but the controls was rather easy for the most part. I learned them within an hour.

 

[FrankT]

Factor 5 NOT in trouble!



http://mistasam.blogspot.com/2008/12/1upcom-misinterpretation.html

Well, that is good to hear.

 

[Azar]

Factor 5 NOT in trouble!



http://mistasam.blogspot.com/2008/12/1upcom-misinterpretation.html

What kind of blog is that? That's the only post.

 

[Cow Mengde]

He deleted the first post that 1up used for their story. I'm guessing he just started blogging. I mean, everyone's gotta start somewhere.

 

[PotatoeMasher]

If it's misinterpreted, where is the original post? Let us judge for ourselves. It looks like he removed everything from his blog.

Here's the original post:

SATURDAY, DECEMBER 6, 2008

More Raining, More Pouring...
Snowballing like crazy.

So I figure I'm at liberty to talk about how my company is doing, because it's really not confidential, and it's part of my industry experience. I feel I'm obligated to share my stories with others interested in getting into this field, so here goes:

When I came back from The Orphanage, I find out no one at Factor 5 had been paid in a month.... and we weren't going to any time soon. It was incredibly lucky that I got the Orphan gig when I did, or else I would have been in deeper shit than I am right now. Anyway, regardless of the financial issues of the company (which I won't elaborate on), we all stayed and continued to work. If we left, there would have been no hope in F5 staying afloat. We had faith in the projects and the company, so there was no reason to bail just yet. At this time it didn't seem like much more than bad timing and bad luck.

Then we lost health care. Ok, who needs it? If we're going to eventually be paid, some sacrifices would be worth it. I had my own on the side, so I wasn't sweating it. Then things turned bad...





Without proper funding on the project I was working on, the company was forced to stop production. Unfortunately I was finally having a ton of fun working on it and we had made such insane progress that this was a total kick to the chest. It was basically like saying "the work you've been doing for the last 8 months has been all for none, but thanks anyway." After that news, moral was definitely not the greatest. We figured it wasn't a problem, however, because there were other projects that needed us, and we still had work to do. So then...





The president of the company basically told us that if we didn't receive funding in 1 week, all of us should move on and look elsewhere for another job. I had no idea how bad this economy was getting until something like this affected me personally, and yea, it sucks. I have 1 more week left at Factor 5. Financially it won't be the end of the world for me, but I really need to work on my reel and find a new gig fast. I wish the best for all my coworkers. They've been great fun to work with, and this last year has certainly been an amazing experience that I will always remember. I've learned a ton, gotten way faster and organized, and I feel like I've grown as an artist/professional because of the people I've met and the challenging yet sometimes stressful situations I've been a part of.

Til next time!
- Sam

http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache...istasam.blogspot.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us