Dr.Palutena
Member
Well I see nothing illegal about what he did, there is no reason for you feel attacked or threatened.
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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
- Start date
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Well I see nothing illegal about what he did, there is no reason for you feel attacked or threatened.
Vermillion
Banned
You've got to look at this from another perspective. Harvey is not arguing that it is right that this has happened, morally. But legally, it may be possible that the man did nothing wrong or nothing deserving of anything more than a fine. He doesn't decide that.
And what is your opinion in the exact same situation if the young man was instead a young lady? Would she not be justified in lashing out at a man who had been following her and exits a car to confront her? Do you think George would have every right, if losing the fight to shoot her after ignoring advice from a police operator not to engage?
Dreams-Visions
Member
Reading this thread is really hard. Dunno how some of you stayed so patient.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
officer?
Devolution
Member
I know when someone has been following me in a car and gets out to try to stop me that I'd be pleasant about it.
Oh wait, I live in this thing called the real world.
Oh wait, I live in this thing called the real world.
Vermillion
Banned
I would think that someone would be justified in killing someone who murdered their family. Entirely justified. But this is not how the law works. If you can find something that would get this man arrested, that would have him given more than a slap on the wrist within the law, what this family is calling for and what this topic is about, then tell us, please.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Tried to stop you? Is that what happened here?
CrazyDogg77
Member
How can I live in the real world too?
Vermillion
Banned
Goddammit. I explained it earlier - it's easier mentally to refer to him as an officer... I know that he isn't one. I'll use George from now on.
Are we saying that Zimmerman could've hopped out the car to walk him home now?
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
vigilante?
This is it exactly. The fact there is resistance to the suggestion the possibility does in fact exist and that perhaps an investigation and potential resulting trial isn't a waste of time scares me.
You've stated George may in fact be legally defending himself in the situation with this teen. So in a scenario involving him following a woman, then confronting her against police operator advice and then getting his ass handed to him, would he have a legal right to shoot her dead? What if the woman turned around and started slapping him right away as he approached her from his car? Kicked him in the nuts, jumped on him and started wailing away at a man who was following her.
By everything you've posted, its conceivable he had the right to defend himself with deadly force.
I contend he had no right. All his actions point to the victim being the young man, or in the above scenario, the hypothetical woman. I have asked to consider replacing the young man with a woman to demonstrate how the act of following someone in a car, and then exiting said vehicle is threatening to anyone. I think most people immediately understand how a woman, fearing rape could feel under threat and actually throw the first punch/initiate the first physical altercation and still be in the right.
Vermillion
Banned
Noted.
Devolution
Member
Oh am I mistaken? Does the combination of skittles and arizona tea make someone black have a "nigga moment" and kick someone in the chest?
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
that's what they make folding chairs out of
I've yet to read anyone suggesting he go directly to jail, without fair trial. We're all just speculating, but logically, this kid should not be dead.
If we replace the young man in this incident with a young woman and leave everything else the same(meaning no accounting for and difference in size or strength...we'll assume the man was in just as much physical danger), my argument does not change at all. I would still point out the possibility the man acted in self defense.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
He should be held on bail..
You always have an investigation or trial no matter the crime. If you have video of an assailant running into a building and shooting a cashier dead and stealing the contents of a cash register, you still have an investigation and trial. There is no reasonable scenario where George could possibly be justified in his actions. Ignoring police advice is what seals it. He saw a black kid, he had a gun...he felt brave.
And I would argue there is no reasonable situation where self-defense could be argued in this exact same scenario. Though that is exactly the likely strategy from the defense.
Princess Carl
Member
Apparently arguing from a legal standpoint these days in CRAAAAAAZY and makes absolutely zero sense. Instead lets just assume assume assume, maybe throw in a little town wide racial conspiracy.
You implied the man physically stopped the teen, causing a confrontation. Why? Other than it being an assumption I mean.
Princess Carl
Member
Not assuming makes you a racist man. I'm sorry to have to break it to you.
Vermillion
Banned
Devolution
Member
Oh yeah look at ya, you was poppin' all the good shit a second ago, then you got kicked in yo chest.
Uh huh. I can see you aren't interested in rational discussion. You're right because you say you're right, dammit.
He had no legal responsibility. He has no legal rights above those of any normal citizen.
Feel free respond to like... anything bro
The kid was only suspicious for being black (because I don't know too many other ways you can be suspicious while walking by yourself at night) that's established. What else is set in stone is that this guy instigated everything and ignored police when he called 911 to take shit into his own hands.
But if you're cool with Neighborhood Watch going rogue, keep posting.
Legal or not, there is nothing that justifies a minor being dead based on baseless suspicions and negligence of a self-appointed, trigger happy Neighbourhood watch guy...
Is there some music playing, cause there is a lot of dancing going on around this issue.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Just a concerned hero doing heroic shit. Saving good wholesome folk from skittles-toting teenagers.
I make this assumption based on the fact that, moments later, the kid was on top of him, punching him in the face. I don't state it as fact, but again, logically speaking, it makes the most sense. Im not on the jury so my speculation has no bearing on the case.
And he went above those legal rights and escalated a situation that is meant to be handled by the police.
Princess Carl
Member
Yeah tell me about it, you feel like saying something?
You are entitled to your opinion, as I am. Yes, I am right because I believe I am right. As you believe you are correct. There is no justification for George to exit his vehicle and confront the teenager. If the teenager lashed out, he would be justified, just as a young lady would be completely justified in his shoes. Just as a senior citizen would be justified in that situation. Pulling out a gun and shooting this man was murder and was racially motivated.
Says the pot to the kettle...
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
because a boy lost his life, and to a man without the authority to detain him..
Zoramon089
Banned
Yes, he almost assuredly did. He was following him in his car, some time transpired, and then they were both fighting on the ground. Now, how could that first event transition to the second? Well, there's 2 possibilities.
1. The teen physically pulled him out of the car. HIGHLY improbable. Even if the teen came up to his car and started attacking it, getting out over driving away would make no sense. Basically there's next to no chance of this scenario being what occured. Or
2. He stopped his car, got out and confronted the teen.
Unless you're able to come up with another possibility, I'd say it's more likely to be 2. Meaning he went from following the teen in his car, to getting out and approaching him.
With the police on their way no less. 70 yards from the home he was returning to.
Devolution
Member
This shit doesn't have a precedent either nope. This shit happened in a vacuum.
Lemme just ignore black history in America long enough for that to become true.
According to you, based on limited information. Which again, whatever, you're free to do that. But the police aren't, so applying your standard of proof to their investigation is disingenuous. We'll see what they come up with. If it happened as you speculate we'll see a trial.
The fuck is this?
Do you? People aren't calling this a hate crime. People are calling it vigilantism based on racial profiling that is being defended by those being irrationally obtuse and willfully ignorant.
Vermillion
Banned
I remember I was talking to a friend a while back about how court cases made public never really go well in the realm of discussion. Like with the Casey Anthony case. Many of us weren't there, we don't know what the full story is. But we talk about it anyways, and we assume that we're right. It almost never goes well.
So to be honest, stories like these are never conducive to appropriate discussion because we're all assuming what happened. Race doesn't matter - we'll just assume.
So knowing that, we either have to speculate, muse over a lack of details, or stop posting these stories altogether. We're not going to stop posting the stories, so only musing and speculating is left. And musing over details, reasonable be it as it may, does not go anywhere.
So all we have left is speculation. Despite the vitriol, I don't think you can fault people for speculating this is all we know, and hopefully these stories lead to consideration of the overall issues. Like race issues in America. So...
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