Man, I love 30 Rock.
I was expecting a major dissapointemt after seeing the title....but then I started reading and thinking...
Let me tell you something:
- Saying how in Far Cry 2 you enjoy feeling threatened all the time...
It's not really the problem of feeling threatened. I love feeling danger around me. Let me fight for my survival (something STALKER does RIGHT). Make it hard for me! Sure. Threats, lots of them! See, but the problem with Far Cry 2 is that you are threatened ALL THE TIME.
You couldn't drive a mile down the road without a militia truck ramming you in the ass. And these motherf***** spawn out of nowhere, so there's really no approach to it except either making a break for it or painfully taking out every vehicle and soldier crossing your path, e v e r y t i m e you try driving around the country.
Another FC2 goldie:
See a bridge? "Cool" you think. Nope - AMBUSH.
See a little village? "Cool" you think. AMBUSH
See a crossroad? "Cool" you think. AMBUSH
"All right" you say, "I'll clear this outpost and mark it (you know after you've cleared an outpost and found the "goodies" it's "marked" and you might think you're done with this shit)
WRONG!
You can't clear out an area in Far Cry 2. This is the land of the undead. Making the characters into zombies would at least make it feel more realistic.
So you have to deal with the same stupid outposts every fucking time. It doesn't matter if you are trying to sneak past them. No sir. BUSTED! Not even at night. BUSTED! My guess is that your character has a big neon sign "SHOOT ME" hanging over his head. That's the only logical explanation I can think of.
Fine I say, then there must be a really cool reward waiting for me after going through the same shit over and over again....there really isn't. The side quests are so absurdly bad (even the main quest for that matter) that the "reward" couldn't possibly outweigh all the frustration (if a few diamonds is what you call a reward)
For that matter, did we even need lots of diamonds in the first place?! I don't think so since I didn't do much sidequesting and I could pretty much buy anything I wanted.
The developers gave yet another pointless chore to do. "Hey, why don't you go look for some more diamonds! We've hidden them all across Africa in black suitcases. We made sure not to put too many in each, just 1 or 2, so you don't get too many too fast. Gotta catch them all!" YAAAAAY !!! Chores chores chores!!!
Don't even get me started on the malaria mini game...that was purely an utter annoyance which, on more than one occassion, dettered you from progressing in the game. You had to drive ALL THE WAY BACK TO TOWN to get those stupid pills. BUT THAT'S NOT ALL! Every time you had to do the super duper SIDE QUEST to "earn" the drugs. You HAD to waste another 20 minutes of gaming every time you ran out of meds, just so you were forced to do go kill some more thugs at some random house in the savana (coupled with all the outposts and militia trucks up your ass on your way).
But here's the worst part (for me):
- The game was EMPTY
I'm not talking about the map. The map is GREAT, GORGEOUS. You've got all this scenery, all these places, but that's it. They are just places. Nothing more.
There's nothing to do in Far Cry 2 except driving from point A to B and killing XY number of people.
I still remember that quest about some king or whatever he was who was stationed at some castle near the dessert. What a cool location! What a cool setting. What a waste.
You take out the 2 or 3 guards at the top with your sniper rifle, then storm the place. The door was opened, barely any guards, there's no excitemet since the whole castle hardly reacts to your murderous rampage. It's like you just walked in on those dudes having a stoner's convention. The whole ordeal didn't last more than a few minutes. A WHOLE FREAKIN' CASTLE IN THE DESSTER!
Then it's back to the tedious and exhausting adventures of outposts and militia trucks.
The game has so many unique areas which are sadly almost completely neglected. You spend 3/4 of the game wasting your time with the most boring set of activities.
Such a shame.
I felt like the developers made this great sandbox and were just about to put some toys in there..... They didn't. All we were left with was a sandbox.
That said, I'm more optimistic about Far Cry 3 ! If they dropped all those side questing and choring from Far Cry 2, I'll be happy to purchase the sequel.
I also hope the lesson's been learned and we'll get a full game this time around.
The issue with challenge is sooo easy to fix relative to this. Games like new vegas hardcore mode that remove instant healing for example. Making enemies dangerous and removing plenty of instant healing items would fix this surely. 1999 mode in bioshock infinite is an example of a developer supporting both a wider audience and a hardcore audience. If FC3 devs dont do such a thing, they have upset an audience for very little incremental effort.
Seriously? The original Assassin's Creed suffered the same fate. They built a whole slew of systems without any consideration for fun. There's no design here.And to me, that one little sentence means more than the whole rest of your post. That is why I love the game.
To be fair, nearly everyone in this thread is in support of this change. There seem to be a small number of people that actually enjoyed what they did in FC2. I can't imagine how, though.Seriously, how can devs keep up with gamers and their constant changing opinions.
'Far Cry 2 was crap, please never again!' 'Actually, we love Far Cry 2, it's so unique!'.
'Please, never again with all the respawning enemies!' 'Ooh, that constant sense of danger was so awesome!'.
What I hated about FarCry 2 and other open-world shooters is that the game world seems to be inhabited mostly by people who want to kill you at sight.
A 1:1 ratio of friendlies to hostiles (with hotspots of enemies of course) is my ideal for an open world game. Otherwise its is just an unusually large shooting range.
Seriously, how can devs keep up with gamers and their constant changing opinions.
'Far Cry 2 was crap, please never again!' 'Actually, we love Far Cry 2, it's so unique!'.
'Please, never again with all the respawning enemies!' 'Ooh, that constant sense of danger was so awesome!'.
Seriously? The original Assassin's Creed suffered the same fate. They built a whole slew of systems without any consideration for fun. There's no design here.
There isn't exactly a lot of freedom either. The core mechanics feel like shit, the driving is awful, and the world is limited. You just fight respawning enemies for hours on end without any real purpose.
At least you could see that MOST PEOPLE around here do not like what Far Cry 2 offered and are thrilled by the change.
I approve of this. More innocents to prey on is always a good thing.
Seriously? The original Assassin's Creed suffered the same fate. They built a whole slew of systems without any consideration for fun. There's no design here.
There isn't exactly a lot of freedom either. The core mechanics feel like shit, the driving is awful, and the world is limited. You just fight respawning enemies for hours on end without any real purpose.
At least you could see that MOST PEOPLE around here do not like what Far Cry 2 offered and are thrilled by the change.
To be fair, nearly everyone in this thread is in support of this change. There seem to be a small number of people that actually enjoyed what they did in FC2. I can't imagine how, though.
The "sense of danger" from respawning enemies absolutely destroyed the game for me. 100% ruined it. Every was was completely aggressive at all times. Enemies were either unaware or completely aggressive. There was no middle ground.
Constantly changing opinions? Really? Have you not considered the possibility that different people have different opinions, and want different things? Come on, man...
See, that all sounds great when written, but while actually trying to play the game I don't find it even remotely fun.Well to me, the systems in Far Cry 2 are all fun. As evidenced by the FC2 stories on Idle Thumbs (they talk about the game so often that it's become an in-joke to at least mention it as an example of interesting game design at least once in every episode), the "perma-death Far Cry 2" blog and other places, it's a game that inspires people to create and tell stories. The systems all interact in unpredictable ways to form a unique experience for each person who is playing the game. The "purpose" comes from the complete freedom to use the systems at your disposal (the weapons, the environment layout, the objective etc etc) to approach each mission in a whole new way. Planning and executing your missions only to have everything go to complete hell in a handbasket, to be forced to improvise to survive, that's the essence and joy of Far Cry 2. And from my examples and other people's stories in the OT you can see that I'm far from alone. I don't care what the detractors think or how many they are, that has nothing to do with my experience.
It was based on different systems but it felt equally soulless.There's barely any emergent systems in the AC games.
As long as there isn't a second island halfway through the game that drags you along the exact same tasks again, I'm sold.
See, that all sounds great when written, but while actually trying to play the game I don't find it even remotely fun.
The game has a broken world simply because nothing is constant. There is no sense of accomplishment when everything resets itself if you walk around the corner.
It was based on different systems but it felt equally soulless.
I've been noticing this trend where games are initially loved, then hated, then at some point in the future, loved again. This process can even repeat itself.
It was based on different systems but it felt equally soulless.
And that's perfectly fine. But me and many others do enjoy it, and we enjoy it a lot. Again, the feeling of accomplishment comes from the interaction of systems and the outcome of those interactions, not (as it seems to be in Far Cry 3) from XP popups and skinning minigames to create bigger wallets. The journey is the reward.
Can't comment on the "soulless" part because I have no idea what that means.
I absolutely hate the idea of XP popups and the skinning mechanic, but to suggest that those somehow define Far Cry 3 is just being dramatic.And that's perfectly fine. But me and many others do enjoy it, and we enjoy it a lot. Again, the feeling of accomplishment comes from the interaction of systems, not (as it seems to be in Far Cry 3) from XP popups and skinning minigames to create bigger wallets. The journey is the reward.
All I can say is that both games, to me, felt like empty shells. They created a world and systems that functioned a specific way and failed to do anything interesting with them. Those systems may be completely different, but the results for me were the same. Both games were incredibly boring and frustrating to play.Thinking about it, AC is the epitome of the exact opposite of a systemic game; the entire game is super designed to the point where even the 'free-roaming' (climbing) is made up entirely of pre-created pathways. So while you may or may not have a point about feeling soulless, your comparison is bonkers.
Figured it was already said enough by people who are very correct.You edited your hyperbole!
I absolutely hate the idea of XP popups and the skinning mechanic, but to suggest that those somehow define Far Cry 3 is just being dramatic.
This is just how Far Cry roles. Every installment in the franchise has been completely different from the last.
Remember that? Remember how you could never really feel comfortable in the indeterminate African countryside? Not even for ten seconds. Because here comes a jeep, a posse of war-hungry militiamen. Remember how isolated and anxious you felt when you saw the last plane leave the country at the very beginning of the game? How oppressive it was to be surrounded on all sides, not by a pristine azure ocean, but by an unconquerable desert?
When you posted this thread, did you expect others to agree? That's what I find mystifying. Nearly everyone here was excited by the article and changes to the game.
So what exactly do you feel they are removing again? Re-iterate for me.No more dramatic than the majority of the people in this thread claiming Far Cry 2 apparently consisted of nothing but roaming jeeps, respawning guards and malaria. I'm sure you can understand my frustration. I agree that it adds little to the discussion though.
Anyway, my point in making this thread was that FC3 seems to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater in that they are not only fixing the glaring flaws of FC2, but also completely removing the many great ideas it did have instead of iterating on them, while adding unnecessary bar-filling chores and tasks similar to the AssCreed games. Sadly everyone seems to be ignoring that part and focusing on the "Oh god they fixed the jeeps and respawns" part exclusively.
So what did you expect them to do? Shit out another Far Cry 2?So they Ubisofted the shit out of another game. Took a fantastic atmosphere and slathered it with boring and repetitive arcadish gameplay elements. Tattoos, penicillin, and memory walls, oh my!
Expected, but disappointing. I loved FC2's tension and sense of isolation, it was kinda like STALKER-lite. I'm a big fan games that make me feel like I'm surviving against all odds. In my perfect world, Ubisoft would have taken FC3 even further in that direction, but I guess most people would rather play something like Assassin's Creed that's constantly jerking off the player and making them feel badass without having to earn it in any way. Oh well, this is a good of a reason as any to finally check out that crazy STALKER mod someone posted several months back.
Here is a new interview with gameplay. Game is gorgeous, and huge. The main missions are going to be more linear and structured, but you still have all that wide open world to go off in and explore as you please, and with plenty to do. It's a fine balance between keeping the story focused, yet leaving all of that wide open freedom to do what you want, when you want without the annoyances like respawning enemies and such. It's what I wanted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A81scf9moe0
What I hated about FarCry 2 and other open-world shooters is that the game world seems to be inhabited mostly by people who want to kill you at sight.
A 1:1 ratio of friendlies to hostiles (with hotspots of enemies of course) is my ideal for an open world game. Otherwise its is just an unusually large shooting range.
Thread backfire?
GAF is more excited for Far Cry 3 than ever before!
The underwater environments look amazing. I'm gonna spend so much time just swimming around.
Ha ha, yes, that's a good way to look at it. Fans of FC2 hating on FC3 is a positive thing for me.If you told me FC3 was similar to/a refinement of FC 2 I wouldn't even throw it on a gamefly que or a 5$ steam sale.
Seeing all the fans of 2 hate it? Makes me much more hopeful.
Ha ha, yes, that's a good way to look at it. Fans of FC2 hating on FC3 is a positive thing for me.
The game can be different from Far Cry 2 without turning into a cheap Call of Duty rip-off. Just because they're making changes doesn't mean they're "selling out".
What I hated about FarCry 2 and other open-world shooters is that the game world seems to be inhabited mostly by people who want to kill you at sight.
A 1:1 ratio of friendlies to hostiles (with hotspots of enemies of course) is my ideal for an open world game. Otherwise its is just an unusually large shooting range.
So what did you expect them to do? Shit out another Far Cry 2?
-Fix broken AI
-Fix respawnable checkpoints
THAT'S IT. That's all you had to fix from the previous game. Maybe improve the plot, BUT only through gameplay, where you can find new clues to enhance the story.
The missions look more linear for some reason. In FC2, you could tackle missions wherever and however you wanted.
And it's true the sense of danger was great in FC2. I remember one mission where you had to drive a boat or swim to some big home or compound on the edge of the water. There were guards on boats patrolling the waters. It took me awhile to figure out how to plan my way to the compound without being seen.
God, FC2 was amazing, but there's no way I can go back to playing the game.
Compared to what, Far Cry 1?They Ubisofted the shit out of Farcry 2 as well. It's just what Ubisoft does. Incredibly lame gameplay elements that do nothing but pull the player out of the atmosphere of the game. They make cheap feeling arcadish games set in some of the best worlds around. Shame really.