Persona 5 decided to insult my identity with the presence of a gay person as a sexual predator. If I can get over it to enjoy the actual game then you can too. It's possible to separate these things out and not pretend it's a zero sum game.
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FF12 makes me realize even more how bad 15 is
- Thread starter The Dude
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Persona 5 decided to insult my identity with the presence of a gay person as a sexual predator. If I can get over it to enjoy the actual game then you can too. It's possible to separate these things out and not pretend it's a zero sum game.
I never beat Rogue Galaxy because my disc always froze at a specific cutscene, and nowadays I'm not really compelled to jump back into it, but I did have more fun with it up until that point than I had with FF XII.
Can't say I cared for either cast except for Balthier, but RG's battle system didn't bore me, so it has that going for it.
badcrumble
Member
indeed, people who don't beat off to loli characters don't deserve mechanics-driven gaming
Sumio Mondo
Member
And actually includes it all in-game and not as a CG movie release. Want the game's intro? Buy this CG movie. Still think that's nonsense.
It kinda does? Entire plots suddenly vanish out of nowhere and the game suddenly creates this end goal with almost no build up and then it's over.
RedlineRonin
Member
Yeah, but this is what I'm saying. Like, what are we talkin here to get to 50? Like another 20-30 hours? I mean that's asking a lot just to see something get better....
I find replaying FFXII is reminding me just how much the game has in common with XV. The development troubles laid bare, the sense of freedom, the MMO and open world influence, the hunts, the narrative fumbles through similar plot threads. They both take risks and are fascinating to dissect, both positively and negatively.
True, but it doesn't have items you need to specifically use on bosses to hurt them.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
The first 15-20 hours of XII is pretty decent.
The stuff after that though? Complete garbage. I don't even remember the ending it's so immemorable.
The stuff after that though? Complete garbage. I don't even remember the ending it's so immemorable.
Why people should have to get over it? What makes this game so important that it gets a pass?
Hey man, the ending is like one of the only great things about XII.
Dangansona
Member
Why can't we just enjoy XII instead of using it as an objective marker of XV's quality?
This I agree with, I wish Kingsglaive was instead an opening sequence like they did with FF XII. In a way, it's kind of similar -- an entire plot arc is shown in the entire sequence. They could have done it the same way, saved the movie, and we would have had a slightly better, continuous experience.
You know there's a difference between getting a pass and my personal level of getting over it so I can just enjoy what's there? That's what I'm talking about. If you don't want to get over it feel free to hang onto whatever you want. Many of my other gay friends love to hang onto things they feel slighted about in media. I don't think it's worth my time.
The Dude
Member
Final fantasy has simply been a series that progressively gets worse with each new main like release and that alone saddens me.
The issue is that while 12 doesn't compare to 6, 7, 9, and even 10 for me... It's still better than 13 and 15, and that's just how it goes.
13 and 15 are just odd games in general, I don't get who they're catered to but as a Final fantasy player since the original in the 80s, they sure as hell weren't catered to me.
12 is the least offender, it is on that line.
The issue is that while 12 doesn't compare to 6, 7, 9, and even 10 for me... It's still better than 13 and 15, and that's just how it goes.
13 and 15 are just odd games in general, I don't get who they're catered to but as a Final fantasy player since the original in the 80s, they sure as hell weren't catered to me.
12 is the least offender, it is on that line.
As a longtime FFXIV player I can't recommend people get into it unless they somewhat enjoy the MMO elements as well, for this reason. Heavensward is great but it's no Shakespeare, and that's a lot of time devoted to something everyone tells you that you won't like to get to the part you might maybe.
From a story standpoint, I understand the complaints about the later half of FFXII. Don't agree a lot, but I understand. The story is still there, the arcs are closed, no character is forgotten (at most, some characters are under used).
But there's SO much stuff to discover, fight and explore during the whole game that it's impossible to me to not love it.
But there's SO much stuff to discover, fight and explore during the whole game that it's impossible to me to not love it.
Speaking of terrible hot takes.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I'm gonna have to watch it again on YouTube then. I literally don't remember it at all. Despite definitely beating it (I remember the final boss being a chore that could sometimes be damaged and not at others). He was super annoying to beat. After that it's just gone.
Mainline SMT games being better than Persona isn't a hot take at all. That's just how it is.
jimmypython
Member
FF12 was a complete package. FF13 still was, but a small one.
FF14 and 15 weren't even finished when they came out: FF14 was a broken game, and FF15 was just a tech demo.
SE forgot how to make games starting from FF13. For FF15, they had to literally ask fans how they would like the game to be like lol.
FF14 and 15 weren't even finished when they came out: FF14 was a broken game, and FF15 was just a tech demo.
SE forgot how to make games starting from FF13. For FF15, they had to literally ask fans how they would like the game to be like lol.
AzureFlame
Member
Almost every FF makes made me realize how horrible XV was.
Meh. Maybe not IV, not that it's a bad game.
Pandora012
Member
Persona 2 is much better than 4.
LiquidSolid
Member
Nah, there's been plenty of good SP FF's since then, including WoFF, XIII, XIII's spinoffs and even XV. The problem is none of them have been great, which is something that's kinda expected of the series. Even XII was pretty flawed at its initial release, the IZJS and TZA versions have dramatically improved the game to the point where I'd consider it a great FF.
I will say that the class stories in ARR are really great. I've quite enjoyed the Dragoon and Rogue quest lines. Shame that they only open up once every five levels.
Ideally base ARR would be redone with more emphasis on the class stories as the player goes from 1-50 but that's a pipe dream.
I tried a few times to go back to XV and give it a full playthrough, as I'm not far in at all. But every time, I had trouble getting into it.
Hopefully later in the summer but now XII is on my radar to pick up as I never finished it the first time. I'm finding the open world boring, the setting a bit bland and the battle system simply bad.
I adore Final Fantasy and its numerous changes. VII and IX would likely be in my top 5 games ever. Even with its flaws, I enjoyed VIII. I love X and XIII. I'm dying to get back into XIV when I have time.
But for some reason, XV isn't clicking with me.
Hopefully later in the summer but now XII is on my radar to pick up as I never finished it the first time. I'm finding the open world boring, the setting a bit bland and the battle system simply bad.
I adore Final Fantasy and its numerous changes. VII and IX would likely be in my top 5 games ever. Even with its flaws, I enjoyed VIII. I love X and XIII. I'm dying to get back into XIV when I have time.
But for some reason, XV isn't clicking with me.
Sumio Mondo
Member
I definitely agree in that SMTIV is really overrated. Especially when the likes of DDS, DDS2, Strange Journey, SMT3, Persona 2, Soul Hackers and Devil Survivor all exist and are far superior. Heck, I'd say I probably prefer Raidou 1 over it. The aesthetics of SMTIV, aside from the music, did not gel with me at all that much and i felt that SMTIV had a messy storyline with really lame Chaos/Law themes.
Dangansona
Member
Did you really just call FFXV a tech demo?
I can see where the TC is coming from, and I kind of expected a thread like this to come out eventually, but I think there are better ways to frame this discussion than yet another "let's shit on FF XV" thread. There's a useful discussion waiting to be had by contrasting what XII did better than XV, but it's hard to get any good debate going when you start by insulting the other game.
The Dude
Member
I don't think it's a tech demo, but it sure isn't far from it.
Those characters and that world were some of the most bland and boring shit I can recall
This seems a bit unfair.
XV is really the only example of this. Yes, XIV was a disaster when it launched but they completely turned the game around. ARR was a new game and it was a complete package.
And despite my issues with it, XV is not a tech demo. That's hyperbole and you know that.
PerfectFlaw
Member
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
He did. Hot takes like that example are why I really can't take a lot of the FFXV here very seriously. It's beyond ridiculous.
Who are you to tell people what should and shouldn't bother them?
Persona 5 loooooves to fellate itself over how counter-culture and socially progressive it is, so the fact that it has extremely regressive portrayals of women and LGBT people, and touts the option to have adults date and become intimate with underage high schoolers as a feature, rightly ruins the entire game for some. Doesn't have to for you, and that's fine.
Edit - man why am I even talking about Persona 5 in here anyway
Even if i liked FFXII, Mother 3 was out like one month after so no.
AgentLampshade
Member
Oh Christ I wasted my money.
Admittedly I think some don't mean to come off that way at times.
But when people mean it, it's is a bit embarrassing.
"Man, Final Fantasy fans are so hyperbolic. They make me ashamed.
... But anyway, like I was saying, the only reason you don't like my favorite Final Fantasy is because you're too stupid to understand it."
Expecting Hashino to treat LGBTQ+ at anything above surface level or the butt of a joke is like expecting David Cage to write anything resembling coherent in a video game. If you expect the blood to come out of the stone feel free to work at it but I don't.
I don't think IV or Apocalypse are better than any of the Hashino Personas. I don't think 1 is either from what I've played, even if I did like it quite a bit.
Can't speak for Strange Journey, I really need to get around to that.
This sounds like a gross exageration. There are some issues with how the game treats Ann for fanservice, but overall it's far from being "extremely regressive" with its portrayal of women.
It's a shame FFXII's storytelling follows the same trajectory as FFXV. Strong premise, quickly becomes disjointed, subplots, characters and antagonists becoming largely inconsequential. Although it is much more pronounced in XV.
FFX feels like the last fully realised story in a mainline FF, and even it relied on a pretty tired JRPG trope (although it did a better job with it than most).
Loving the XII remaster, but it still feels like the start of FF's decline, even if that decline isn't as significant as it becomes in the following decade.
FFX feels like the last fully realised story in a mainline FF, and even it relied on a pretty tired JRPG trope (although it did a better job with it than most).
Loving the XII remaster, but it still feels like the start of FF's decline, even if that decline isn't as significant as it becomes in the following decade.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I'm no fan of FFXV but I absolutely agree with you here.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
The Wolf speaks reason.
RedlineRonin
Member
Hmm.....
Before Stormblood launched I saw people talking about a potential "jump to 50" deal. I'm assuming that didn't actually materialize? There's no way to accelerate to a higher level character?
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