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[Lindsay]

If I recall correctly you don't actually fight any 1st class SOLDIER's until later in the game and they were a decent challenge unless you had power leveled yourself. They weren't incredibly week mooks.

This is true for then 2nd and 3rd class SOLDIERs to. The 3rd class guys are by far the hardest and most powerful enemies in the Shinra HQ!

Plus Crisis Core was on about the mass desertion of SOLDIER members. All the big name dudes died and many others got Genesis'd. Wouldn't surprise me if Shinra suddenly early promoted a whole bunch of peeps ta fill in the ranks after that whole ordeal like they did with Elena.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

But he doesn't die from a single bullet. He gets multiple fired into him before he finally dies. He also kills a few grunts before the three get him which we can take that he was weak from that combined with being caught off guard when the three grunts corner him and fire the first bullet.

Plus I don't know how Zack is compared to Cloud. It's always been very evident Cloud is more powerful than Zack even though Zack had the experiment done on him. We also have to take into account that Zack was carrying Cloud around while running from the soldiers and was probably exhausted in his own way from the second experiment.

It's okay for Zacks death to be quick. He does his best for Cloud and in the end, he's the reason Cloud got away. That makes him special enough to not need any justification as a good character.

Plus I love his truck convo with Cloud.

I'm aware that he doesn't' die to a single bullet, I'm simply agreeing with Scrooge that a well placed bullet can take almost any man down.

 

[HeelPower]

They shouldn't shy away from FF7's darker elements.

Hell, if it results in M rating, that would likely be better for sales and could generate some buzz.The highest selling games of this kind are usually M.

Its not like FF7 needs to go as far as things like GTA or Witcher anyway ,but they must depict these characters as fucked up humans who live in a messed up world.

The grit and complexity really set FF7 apart.You DO commit mass murder at the start of this game.

That's what Nomura wanted but didn't get to do in VersusXV anyway.

 

[Two Words]

Yeah, I imagine a SOLDIER can fight three grunts.

I guess the point is moot at this point, no matter what, no matter how it's depicted, Zack's fate is sealed much like Aeris'. His death is one of many cosmic cogs that turn the wheels of fate, leading Cloud to Midgar.

I don't like how Cloud and Zack have a moment of closure in CC before Zack dies. The whole point of Cloud's persona was supposed to be that between the mental and physical stress of the Mako/Jenova experiments put on him and the shock of seeing his friend killed, he broke mentally and the Jenova cells automatically defended him by blocking those memories and creating a new persona of himself mirrored by Zack. That doesn't really work if they have parting words and Cloud agrees to live for the both of them like that.


If anything, they should do the same mansion flashback as before, but have it shown from Cloud's perspective as memory fragments. You can see Zack fighting off soldiers and not ditching Cloud. Eventually, Zack is overwhelmed, and Cloud comes to after Zack has died. This would also fit better with Cloud's guilt, as he would feel more responsible as being dead weight in that situation.

 

[z1ggy]

Honesly the super deformed characters never bothered me like they do everyone else. I almost find them part of the charm. The pixilated low resolution backgrounds drive me nuts though.

I'm currently playing the game for the first time since 1999 and my god, Barret super deformed is so fucking funny and charming.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

I don't like how Cloud and Zack have a moment of closure in CC before Zack dies. The whole point of Cloud's persona was supposed to be that between the mental and physical stress of the Mako/Jenova experiments put on him and the shock of seeing his friend killed, he broke mentally and the Jenova cells automatically defended him by blocking those memories and creating a new persona of himself mirrored by Zack. That doesn't really work if they have parting words and Cloud agrees to live for the both of them like that.


If anything, they should do the same mansion flashback as before, but have it shown from Cloud's perspective as memory fragments. You can see Zack fighting off soldiers and not ditching Cloud. Eventually, Zack is overwhelmed, and Cloud comes to after Zack has died. This would also fit better with Cloud's guilt, as he would feel more responsible as being dead weight in that situation.

Interesting, I didn't see it as closure, I saw it as him saying goodbye. Cloud is clearly messed up, somewhere between his goodbye and arriving at Midgar where Tifa finds him is when he finally creates his alter ego based on Zack's dreams of becoming a merc.

The closure of Zack and Cloud occurs when he goes back to Shinra mansion and it floods back into his memory.

 

[Turin]

I don't ever want to hear the phrase "living legacy" in regard to the Cloud/Zack story.

They shouldn't shy away from FF7's darker elements.

Hell, if it results in M rating, that would likely be better for sales and could generate some buzz.The highest selling games of this kind are usually M.

Its not like FF7 needs to go as far as things like GTA or Witcher anyway ,but they must depict these characters as fucked up humans who live in a messed up world.

The grit and complexity really set FF7 apart.You DO commit mass murder at the start of this game.

That's what Nomura wanted but didn't get to do in VersusXV anyway.

I agree for the most part about the M rating.

For example, waking up to the massacre of Shinra should be particularly disturbing. You should be afraid about what might be around the corner.

With that said, it's not like this is an HBO show. I wouldn't want it to go that dark.

 

[Two Words]

Interesting, I didn't see it as closure, I saw it as him saying goodbye. Cloud is clearly messed up, somewhere between his goodbye and arriving at Midgar where Tifa finds him is when he finally creates his alter ego based on Zack's dreams of becoming a merc.

The closure of Zack and Cloud occurs when he goes back to Shinra mansion and it floods back into his memory.

It just loses a lot of impact with the way CC does it. It feels like Cloud just decided "Okay, now I have to carry Zack's legacy and be Soldier 1st Class." I really don't see any reason why that part of CC's ending should be kept.

 

[Darksol]

Trailer is now up to 8,776,299 views.

 

[Makoto Yuki]

It just loses a lot of impact with the way CC does it. It feels like Cloud just decided "Okay, now I have to carry Zack's legacy and be Soldier 1st Class." I really don't see any reason why that part of CC's ending should be kept.

I'm guessing Zack's last moments in the remake are going to be completely different from both CC and the original. I hope they can strike a balance between the two versions, or maybe they will make a new way to sacrifice Zack that will resonate even more, only time will tell.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I don't like how Cloud and Zack have a moment of closure in CC before Zack dies. The whole point of Cloud's persona was supposed to be that between the mental and physical stress of the Mako/Jenova experiments put on him and the shock of seeing his friend killed, he broke mentally and the Jenova cells automatically defended him by blocking those memories and creating a new persona of himself mirrored by Zack. That doesn't really work if they have parting words and Cloud agrees to live for the both of them like that.

Interesting, I didn't see it as closure, I saw it as him saying goodbye. Cloud is clearly messed up, somewhere between his goodbye and arriving at Midgar where Tifa finds him is when he finally creates his alter ego based on Zack's dreams of becoming a merc.

The closure of Zack and Cloud occurs when he goes back to Shinra mansion and it floods back into his memory.

Honestly, I don't really mind they saying goodbyes. I do think the whole "living legacy" thing is a bit much, however. It feels too clean a passing down of inheritance (just like the Buster Sword suddenly becomes this significant symbolic piece) and it diminish the sense that everything is just a tragic serendipity.

 

[HeelPower]

With that said, it's not like this is an HBO show. I wouldn't want it to go that dark.

That would alienate the fans and be a betrayal to the game anyway.

FF7 should keep a dark edge but not go too crazy either(its unlikely anyway)

 

[Two Words]

I think Cloud's past with Zack dying is one of those things that people want to see more of. They feel like the original game gave you a small glimpse of it and people want the remake to do some kind of full-blown cinematic exposition so that you know what really happened in full detail. But I really don't want that scene to be like that. The lack of details is what makes it good. It is meant to feel like a mystery and unclear. I'd be upset if it turned into some 5 minute cut scene that tried to draw a perfect picture for you about those events as if there was a video camera recording it or something as a perfect chunk of memory. It's normal for people to want to see more, but that isn't always best in things like this.

 

[Turin]

That would alienate the fans and be a betrayal to the game anyway.

FF7 should keep a dark edge but not go too crazy either(its unlikely anyway)

And about my earlier point. That one scene accurately adapted would sort of look like this.

I don't think a lot of people want to see that.

I don't anyway. :-/

 

[HeelPower]

And about my earlier point. That one scene accurately adapted would sort of look like this.

I don't think a lot of people want to see that.

I don't anyway. :-/

Its gonna be super challenging to remake this game.

I honestly have no idea what would be a good way to go about this scene.(and many others)

 

[Blablurn]

Trailer is now up to 8,776,299 views.

Nothing stops this train

 

[Wazzy]

And about my earlier point. That one scene accurately adapted would sort of look like this.

I don't think a lot of people want to see that.

I don't anyway. :-/

I don't think it should look that ridiculous.

There's a way to approach this without having him beat her to a pulp. Have him aggressively grab her and start tightening his grip and then he could hit her once or something along those lines.

It will be a dark scene but it doesn't have to be a huge beatdown.

 

[Turin]

Its gonna be super challenging to remake this game.

I honestly have no idea what would be a good way to go about this scene.(and many others)

Indeed. I can imagine adapting this is going to give Nomura and co. some serious headaches.

I don't think it should look that ridiculous.

There's a way to approach this without having him beat her to a pulp. Have him aggressively grab her and start tightening his grip and then he could hit her once or something along those lines.

It will be a dark scene but it doesn't have to be a huge beatdown.

Yeah. That's what I was thinking. The threat remains the same.

You might see his fist cocked and he's struggling to fight Sephiroth's influence.

 

[Meccanical]

And about my earlier point. That one scene accurately adapted would sort of look like this.

I don't think a lot of people want to see that.

I don't anyway. :-/

That's kind of the point though, you shouldn't, that's why the scene is effective.

 

[Turin]

That's kind of the point though, you shouldn't, that's why the scene is effective.

The scene really wasn't that effective in the game. Otherwise more people would remember it.

They'll need to have some tact when it gets to that part in the story.

 

[Meccanical]

The scene really wasn't that effective in the game. Otherwise more people would remember it.

They'll need to have some tact when it gets to that part in the story.

More people don't remember it because it was animated rather poorly and placed in between a lot of weird shit.

 

[Wazzy]

The scene really wasn't that effective in the game. Otherwise more people would remember it.

They'll need to have some tact when it gets to that part in the story.

Really? I actually think it's a scene that heavily stands out even though the crappy graphics make it harder to understand.

It's a very messed up scene building up to Clouds breakdown later on.

That's kind of the point though, you shouldn't, that's why the scene is effective.

It is but I don't think it makes sense to have him beat her with his fists because let's be real, she would be dead.

If it's aggressive grabbing and then he slaps her or punches her when she goes flying back and then he starts choking her, the scene will still be dark and serve it's purpose. The first punch could even add some blood to Aeris to make it even more fucked up when Cloud regains himself.

 

[Turin]

More people don't remember it because it was animated rather poorly and placed in between a lot of weird shit.

Which is why they could get away with it back then.

A lot of careful thought needs to be put into that segment of the story from them.

Really? I actually think it's a scene that heavily stands out even though the crappy graphics make it harder to understand.

I had no recollection of it.

 

[manipulate]

That scene occurs when Cloud gives Sephiroth the black materia right?

I think the reason why people may not immediately remember it is because that surrounding ~2-3 hour segment has a LOT of whack stuff going on.

 

[Turin]

That might be the beginning of what would be Cloud's growing self hatred that shows up in AC.

 

[The Silver]

There aint a chance in hell Square's gonna have Cloud(the hero)push Aeris to the ground and beat her face in, I can see the article headlines about misogyny already, choking is as far as they'll go.


The only thing I remember about Crisis Core besides the stupid poems is that ending, one of my favorite endings ever, they better keep Zack's death like that, only thing the game did right I tell ya.

 

[OmegaDL50]

The whole series of scenes at the Ancient Temple with Cloud apparently being controlled (you know when you see a transparent duplicate around Cloud that is trying to manipulate him) and Cloud is clutching his head in pain.

This also happened moments before the death. You see that Cloud wants to save her but Sephiroth / Jenova messing with his head and partially controlling his movements. I think his inability to save her and his lack of self control in resisting Sephiroth's manipulation over him. Being totally powerless and being unable to prevent it from happening. That would screw anyone up.

 

[Prototype]

They shouldn't shy away from FF7's darker elements.

Hell, if it results in M rating, that would likely be better for sales and could generate some buzz.The highest selling games of this kind are usually M.

Its not like FF7 needs to go as far as things like GTA or Witcher anyway ,but they must depict these characters as fucked up humans who live in a messed up world.

The grit and complexity really set FF7 apart.You DO commit mass murder at the start of this game.

That's what Nomura wanted but didn't get to do in VersusXV anyway.

Agreed.

 

[Turin]

The whole series of scenes at the Ancient Temple with Cloud apparently being controlled (you know when you see a transparent duplicate around Cloud that is trying to manipulate him) and Cloud is clutching his head in pain.

This also happened moments before the death. You see that Cloud wants to save her but Sephiroth / Jenova messing with his head and partially controlling his movements. I think his inability to save her and his lack of self control in resisting Sephiroth's manipulation over him. Being totally powerless and being unable to prevent it from happening. That would screw anyone up.

Add in Zack's death and the fact that the Weapons were unleashed largely because of him, likely resulting in a number of deaths. It's a miracle he didn't end up in an insane asylum.

Well, he was a vegetable at one point.

 

[Square2015]

Implied sex scene? Where was that?

 

[linkboy]

Implied sex scene? Where was that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afuKSfF1rHg

It was supposed be in this scene, when it's just the two of them under the highwind.

 

[Amused]

I think dream sequences could be a way to go with that. It would start out with Cloud seeing this person and initially isn't sure who he is.

 

[anaron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afuKSfF1rHg

It was supposed be in this scene, when it's just the two of them under the highwind.

It's just another gross retcon tbh

 

[daniels]

Jeez, has everyone here played Crisis Core? I feel like a bad fan for missing out, even though FF7 is my favourite game of all time.

Any chance it gets the Type-0 treatment before the Remake comes out?

Consider yourself lucky, they took key scenes from the original FF7 with cloud aeris and just replaced him with zack, shitting on the lore and the original game most of the time.
Also if you think you get the same atmosphere yeah about that.. midgar looks like pure shit random dark 3D environment and has NOTHING in common with the original.
If you play it its best to treat it as bad fanfic because thats the closest it actually is to FF7 ... and not as a prequel lol

 

[Kain]

Consider yourself lucky, they took key scenes from the original FF7 with cloud aeris and just replaced him with zack, shitting on the lore and the original game most of the time.
Also if you think you get the same atmosphere yeah about that.. midgar looks like pure shit random dark 3D environment and has NOTHING in common with the original.
If you play it Its best to treat it as bad fanfic because thats the closest it actually is to FF7 ... and not as a sequel lol

Ehm, no? The only bad thing about CC is fucking Genesis and fucking Loveless, they should strap both of them to a rocket and crash it in the sun.

Otherwise the game is fun, Zack is an AMAZING FF character, his VA was totally ace, and yes, it did retconned some things, but nothing too serious.

The pace of the game could be considered a problem for some, but it's a not very long rpg either, so it's never a chore. Dat last fight. Dat music. Dat ending. I'm tearing up right now, sorry.

 

[HeelPower]

The cloud beating Aeris scene is so messed up.

He never gets to apologize or clarify the situation to her.

 

[daniels]

Ehm, no? The only bad thing about CC is fucking Genesis and fucking Loveless, they should strap both of them to a rocket and crash it in the sun.

Otherwise the game is fun, Zack is an AMAZING FF character, his VA was totally ace, and yes, it did retconned some things, but nothing too serious.

The pace of the game could be considered a problem for some, but it's a not very long rpg either, so it's never a chore. Dat last fight. Dat music. Dat ending. I'm tearing up right now, sorry.

I agree with you on genesis and his grappy peoms i also agree that Zack was "kinda" likable.
That doesnt change the fact that the whole game feels like a really bad fanfic.
How are you not pissed that they simple took classic scenes from the original and replace cloud with zack i dont even know.

 

[ponpo]

Just make it so Sephiroth casts Confuse on Cloud before he leaves the Temple.

Explained.

 

[JeffZero]

Most people do seem to adore Zack, but the script+localization of Crisis Core did him few favors for me based on the ancient half-truth memories of that game I still possess. CC has kind of a "lite" version of one of FFXIII's biggest issues (and certainly the laughingstock of Dissidia): its script is built on a kind of "keyword search" parameter.

"Hero"
"Heroes"
"Angels"
"Monsters"
"Courage"

So on, so forth. The critical path has a few particular words that just... shape entire passages. FFVII itself doesn't really do this; it's diverse and it tackles a whole bunch of things. Sure, important words like "Sephiroth" are going to pop up five hundred times, but characters don't look one-another in the eye and go, "being a hero is about the courage to overcome our inner monsters." "Are we monsters? I think we're angels...!"

Disclaimer: Yeah, I totally haven't played Crisis Core since launch. I fully admit I'm in pisspoor shape to provide examples, and so I totally made up that exchange. But from what I recall of Compilation, that's how a lot of dialogue went in those games, whereas VII wasn't like that and most Square games from VII's era weren't like that either. Not really.

I do remember Zack being less of an offender than some of his supporting cast, though, and I think Aerith and Yuffie were written pretty sharply actually.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

The only thing I remember about Crisis Core besides the stupid poems is that ending, one of my favorite endings ever, they better keep Zack's death like that, only thing the game did right I tell ya.

Crisis Core did a really good job at showing us the human Sephiroth, too. I love the line when he's talking to Zack and Zack says something like "For real!?" and then Seph laughs and says "For real." That's something we'd never see him do after his fall. Same with talking about his past and having friends. Also, there was Tseng and Aerith's relationship, which felt tacked on in the original FFVII but more fleshed out as something innocently one-sided in Crisis Core. Tseng himself also got a lot of focus, which was nice, as he was absent for a good portion of VII.

Before Crisis showed us more of the Shin-ra hero side of Sephiroth. I really wish that game was localized somehow... it really was a huge part of the compilation. While CC shows us what's going on in SOLDIER, it's really compartmentalized in that regard. An equally important story, Shin-ra vs. AVALANCHE, happens concurrently in BC, and also fills in the gaps from when Zack was knocked out in a tube in Nibelheim. I would even call it the "main" story of the prequels, whereas CC is more of a side story.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

There aint a chance in hell Square's gonna have Cloud(the hero)push Aeris to the ground and beat her face in, I can see the article headlines about misogyny already, choking is as far as they'll go.


The only thing I remember about Crisis Core besides the stupid poems is that ending, one of my favorite endings ever, they better keep Zack's death like that, only thing the game did right I tell ya.

They'll keep that because it's a one off instance, while Cloud is being mentally influenced. What they will cut is all of Cid's verbal abuse toward Shera

 

[Kain]

I agree with you on genesis and his grappy peoms i also agree that Zack was "kinda" likable.
That doesnt change the fact that the whole game feels like a really bad fanfic.
How are you not pissed that they simple took classic scenes from the original and replace cloud with zack i dont even know.

What scenes in particular are you refering to?

 

[JeffZero]

Crisis Core did a really good job at showing us the human Sephiroth, too. I love the line when he's talking to Zack and Zack says something like "For real!?" and then Seph laughs and says "For real." That's something we'd never see him do after his fall. Same with talking about his past and having friends. Also, there was Tseng and Aerith's relationship, which felt tacked on in the original FFVII but more fleshed out as something innocently one-sided in Crisis Core. Tseng himself also got a lot of focus, which was nice, as he was absent for a good portion of VII..

Heh, you're making me want to reevaluate Crisis Core a little bit.

 

[Ferr986]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afuKSfF1rHg

It was supposed be in this scene, when it's just the two of them under the highwind.

You know, I never noticed until now there are two versions of this scene, even though now I remember watching both

 

[Prototype]

I'm glad I'm playing thru FF7 again right now (thank you steam sale) because I don't remember Cloud beating Aerith.

 

[daniels]

What scenes in particular are you refering to?

tell me how does zack meet aeris?

 

[linkboy]

I'm glad I'm playing thru FF7 again right now (thank you steam sale) because I don't remember Cloud beating Aerith.

Same here (had 5.01 on my account that I totally forgot, picked up 7 and 8 for about $10), and I don't recall it either.

 

[Mendax]

tell me how does zack meet aeris?

The same way as cloud does later on. But that doesnt replace cloud's meeting, does it

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Heh, you're making me want to reevaluate Crisis Core a little bit.

It does a much better job with the story it isn't trying to tell than the one that it is. SOLDIER's internal strife, seeing the upper plate of Midgar, seeing what SOLDIERS do both on and off the job and giving them a face and a purpose, showing the contrast between slum life and corporate life, showing us how Shin-ra screws up your family life (I love how Genesis had normal parents and it was good guy Angeal's dad who was messed up), giving Hojo a scientific rival where he was the only scientist at all in the original in a world where that's pretty important (besides Gast, who was dead), showing us a bit of the war with Wutai that was only briefly mentioned, showing us more of Cloud and what he was like as a Shin-ra grunt, the stuff I already mentioned about Seph and Tseng, etc.

The "become a hero" story was basically fluff to show us all of that. At least, that's how I see Crisis Core. Like I said, it's a side story. It's more of a companion than its own thing.

 

[Kain]

tell me how does zack meet aeris?

OK, I see what you mean now. I think it's not replacing the characters, I see it as a homage xD

Seriously, Genesis is the main problem, he taints the whole experience. Holy shit he was SO badly written and inserted into everywhere for no reason... Genesis is Nomura at his worst.