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[Steel]

I do t think turned based combat is too outdated for today. You just can't make it like it was in 1997.

How is turn-based anything outdated? it's just a different way to play. We still have both Real-time strategy games and turn-based strategy. Hell, turn-based strategy games have been more popular than Real-time for quite some time now.

You're free to dislike turn-based, but don't pretend it's obsolete.

It wasn't memorable, but it was hard as fuck.

They were in FFII as well, btw.
.

I still don't remember them, I don't remember names of random enemies for most rpgs, hell i don't even remember the names of half the bosses in RPGs.

 

[WanderingWind]

The level of disagreement I'm seeing in discussions about what direction the remake should take (in graphics, gameplay, art) seems pretty indicative that this remake isn't going to sit well with a lot of people.

The problem is that a lot of the things about FF7 that people are nostalgic for are outdated. The pre-rendered backgrounds, fixed camera angles, turn-based battles...that's just naming a few.

Square could probably do a 1:1 remake of the game, but it would end up being a pretty niche title. That style of RPG died out for a reason, after all.

On the other hand, they could make it a modern JRPG, along the lines of FFXIII or XV. That would certainly piss off a lot of people clamoring for nostalgia, but for every 1 jilted fan there might be 2 people who are more interested in modern games.

People keep saying "outdated" like it's a word that carries any sort of weight. What makes it outdated? Why do you think active battle is any more modern than turn-based? Both have been been used in RPGs since practically the beginning, and are both still used today. Why do you think people who want a remake, rather than a re-imagining holding on to "nostalgia?" Why do you think those people are, but the other people excited for a remake of a 20 year old game aren't guided by the same emotion? Why do you think a game that has sold upwards of what, 20 million copies and continues to sell is in some dire need to draw in fans unfamiliar with the source game?

The answer to all of these, of course, is that you would prefer they do some new things. This is a fine opinion to hold, but it's not any different than people who want to see the game they love with modern graphics. Neither side is more right, less instilled by the holy specter of "nostalgia" or any other such nonsense. It's just a preference, plain and simple.

 

[Dark_castle]

The level of disagreement I'm seeing in discussions about what direction the remake should take (in graphics, gameplay, art) seems pretty indicative that this remake isn't going to sit well with a lot of people.

The problem is that a lot of the things about FF7 that people are nostalgic for are outdated. The pre-rendered backgrounds, fixed camera angles, turn-based battles...that's just naming a few.

Square could probably do a 1:1 remake of the game, but it would end up being a pretty niche title. That style of RPG died out for a reason, after all.

On the other hand, they could make it a modern JRPG, along the lines of FFXIII or XV. That would certainly piss off a lot of people clamoring for nostalgia, but for every 1 jilted fan there might be 2 people who are more interested in modern games.

If there's one thing we can learn from Miyazaki's game, it's that you don't always want to design something that appeals to everyone. You design something that's genuinely good, something that is faithful to your design ideology and roots, and people will come for your product, even if they may be turned off at the beginning.

See what I'm getting at? Design something that appeals to your core audience, which means ATB turn-based with improvements. If good, people outside of the intended customers may be interested.

 

[Carn82]

It wouldn't work.

Most of the "cutscenes" in FF7 were just scripted sequences with the text dialogue boxes, integrated seamlessly with the typical view of the game you have as you explore. This is how all the FFs before it were done, too. Pulling the camera out to some weird fixed overhead angle for every major story sequence would just be jarring and crazy.

I still think it should be 3d enviroments with fixed viewpoints during gameplay. Maybe change things up with some new viewpoints or expand some areays, and/or let the player move the viewpoint around a bit (but not too much). I don't really care what they do during 'cutscenes', they can go all out as long as it fits the scene

 

[Koozek]

New Weekly Famitsu interview with Nomura translated on Kotaku:
http://kotaku.com/how-the-final-fantasy-vii-remake-came-to-be-1713573146

Lol @ this part:
“As preproduction went along and I offered my opinions on what I thought should be done, Mr. Kitase would asked me how the individual elements should be adjusted in fine detail.” Nomura recalled. “It was very perplexing. Then one day, as I was checking the internal company presentation video it said ‘Director Tetsuya Nomura’ at the end.”

Apparently this was news to Nomura who had assumed that Kitase would be reclaiming the director’s chair for the remake of his game. “So I called up Mr. Kitase and said, ‘It says that I’m the director for some reason.’ To which he replied, ‘Of course it does.’” Nomura said with a nervous laugh.

The “’I thought you were going to direct!’ ‘Well I thought YOU were going to direct!’” episode was something that happened in the initial stages of the project’s inception and Nomura has stated that he is presently well aware of and well into his position as director.

 

[Two Words]

How is turn-based anything outdated? it's just a different way to play. We still have both Real-time strategy games and turn-based strategy. Hell, turn-based strategy games have been more popular than Real-time for quite some time now.

You're free to dislike turn-based, but don't pretend it's obsolete.



I still don't remember them, I don't remember names of random enemies for most rpgs, hell i don't even remember the names of half the bosses in RPGs.

That was supposed to say "don't". I was telling somebody who does think it is outdated that it isn't.

 

[Death Penalty]

See what I'm getting at? Design something that appeals to your core audience, which means ATB turn-based with improvements. If good, people outside of the intended customers may be interested.

See though, I'm core audience and I don't want turn-based which is the problem.

As far as I'm concerned, make as many improvements as possible in every regard. You aren't going to please everyone so you might as well just make the best game you can and the game you want to make. If that's extremely faithful to the original okay. If that involves huge overhauls that's also okay. I just want to see VII as a modern game with all the bells and whistles.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

New Weekly Famitsu interview with Nomura translated on Kotaku:
http://kotaku.com/how-the-final-fantasy-vii-remake-came-to-be-1713573146

Lol @ this part:
“As preproduction went along and I offered my opinions on what I thought should be done, Mr. Kitase would asked me how the individual elements should be adjusted in fine detail.” Nomura recalled. “It was very perplexing. Then one day, as I was checking the internal company presentation video it said ‘Director Tetsuya Nomura’ at the end.”

Apparently this was news to Nomura who had assumed that Kitase would be reclaiming the director’s chair for the remake of his game. “So I called up Mr. Kitase and said, ‘It says that I’m the director for some reason.’ To which he replied, ‘Of course it does.’” Nomura said with a nervous laugh.

The “’I thought you were going to direct!’ ‘Well I thought YOU were going to direct!’” episode was something that happened in the initial stages of the project’s inception and Nomura has stated that he is presently well aware of and well into his position as director.

Yup, that sounds like Square Enix bureaucracy alright.

I feel bad for how much Nomura has been jerked around for the better part of a decade.

 

[Two Words]

See though, I'm core audience and I don't want turn-based which is the problem.

As far as I'm concerned, make as many improvements as possible in every regard. You aren't going to please everyone so you might as well just make the best game you can and the game you want to make. If that's extremely faithful to the original okay. If that involves huge overhauls that's also okay. I just want to see VII as a modern game with all the bells and whistles.

A turn based game can be just as modern as an action game.

 

[Death Penalty]

A turn based game can be just as modern as an action game.

I wasn't saying it couldn't. The modern comment was an unrelated plea for indulging improvement and creativity.

It wouldn't be the battle system I'd prefer anymore, though. Once perhaps, but these days turn based systems strike me as shallow and uninvolved.

 

[Karkador]

People keep saying "outdated" like it's a word that carries any sort of weight. What makes it outdated? Why do you think active battle is any more modern than turn-based?

We could talk about this two ways.

First is that, conceptually, games evolve as they get copied and iterated on.

Turn-based battling is a system dating back to the original Dragon Quest, which got it from Wizardry, which got it from D&D. That's a long time of turn-based battling, and let's just say that FF7's ATB wasn't particularly ahead of its time or doing anything novel.

Second is in terms of technology; these systems were derived from D&D, a game you play live in person with pen and paper. Early computers could do this type of game because it was never computationally complex to begin with. On the other hand, any type of real-time action game can have considerably more calculations and things going on, which demands better computers, which is why videogames broke out of the turn-based mold several cycles ago.

Both have been been used in RPGs since practically the beginning, and are both still used today.

Besides the niche anime stylings, I think JRPGs went into such sharp decline with popular videogame culture because turn-based systems aren't fun compared to other types of videogames. However, lots of action games have experience and other elements that put JRPGs on the map. I mean, they pretty much got eclipsed by modern games, because of how slowly they were evolving.

Mind you, I'm not at all against turn-based games. I made the board gaming OT in off-topic. I am all about turn-based games, and I know how good they can be. But for making a popular, headlining videogame in 2015? FF7's battle system is completely out of the question.

Why do you think people who want a remake, rather than a re-imagining holding on to "nostalgia?" Why do you think those people are, but the other people excited for a remake of a 20 year old game aren't guided by the same emotion?

It's not clear to you that people want a remake because of nostalgia?

Why do you think a game that has sold upwards of what, 20 million copies and continues to sell is in some dire need to draw in fans unfamiliar with the source game?

Because they've spent 10+ years cultivating a young fanbase that has possibly never played FF7, and they certainly aren't making turn-based games for them. KH-style ARPG is the order of the day for the flagship SE games. Do you disagree that Square Enix is interested in marketing its games at a young demographic?

 

[Dark_castle]

See though, I'm core audience and I don't want turn-based which is the problem.

As far as I'm concerned, make as many improvements as possible in every regard. You aren't going to please everyone so you might as well just make the best game you can and the game you want to make. If that's extremely faithful to the original okay. If that involves huge overhauls that's also okay. I just want to see VII as a modern game with all the bells and whistles.

Simple. You are not as core as you think.

Take a stroll to FF7r board in GameFAQs, look at polls on comparing action or atb/turn-based, the latter tends to be much more favored.

 

[Death Penalty]

Simple. You are not as core as you think.

Take a stroll to FF7r board in GameFAQs, look at polls on comparing action or atb/turn-based, the latter tends to be much more favored.

Differing opinion makes me less of a Final Fantasy fan? I find that insulting. Having an opinion that deviates from the general consensus on GameFAQs though I'll take as a point of pride.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

I hate it when people use the term "modern" in relation to game mechanics. Mechanics are not inherently "antiquated" or "modern."

That said, I think a turn-based/ATB system is core to what Final Fantasy VII. There's a lot they can do with animations, camera angles, positioning, etc that can spice things up, but a straight up real-time combat system would be a tremendous disappointment.

 

[Arkeband]

If FF7 Remake sells as well as their stock prices shooting up and the overwhelmingly positive reception indicates, I'm sure the people who apparently have zero respect for the original game's combat system will get some kind of action game spinoff.

ATB with modernization changes, (smaller auto-attacks so they're not standing in place, more cinematic to look at, maybe attack chains of somesort) is literally all it needs to do. If they change it too much they veer away from nostalgia, which is the only reason this is a thing.

If for some reason they don't make you your own Dirge of Cerberus, you can always just go fire up the new Dissidia that's coming out and play as Cloud or any of the other 50-odd heroes they're adding.

 

[Alfredo]

Aren't a lot of those Final Fantasy iPhone games turn-based? We all know mobile gaming is the furniture, so turn-based battles are as modern as it gets!

 

[Two Words]

I'll ask this again. In the FFVII remake, do you want the Sephiroth boss fight to feel something similar to the original game or something similar to the Kingdom Hearts Sephiroth boss fights?

 

[AlphaSnake]

If they give us an option to keep it turn-based (and I don't see why that would be difficult) I am going to play that way and that way only. I like the strategy.

 

[Zukuu]

II'm sure the people who apparently have zero respect for the original game's combat system will get some kind of action game spinoff.

Tell me more about it.

 

[Karkador]

I'll ask this again. In the FFVII remake, do you want the Sephiroth boss fight to feel something similar to the original game or something similar to the Kingdom Hearts Sephiroth boss fights?

It's possible that more of the people who will eventually be buying this remake originally fought Sephiroth in real-time instead of ATB.

 

[Two Words]

It's possible that more of people who will eventually be buying this remake originally fought Sephiroth in real-time instead of ATB.

I'm pretty certain FFVII sold far better than Kingdom Hearts. But that isn't really answering my question.

 

[Dark_castle]

Differing opinion makes me less of a Final Fantasy fan? I find that insulting. Having an opinion that deviates from the general consensus on GameFAQs though I'll take as a point of pride.

Nah, I wasn't very serious, chill.

Anywho, mainline FF has never been full-on action until XV. That's what I referred to as the core system design (and thus audience). I mean people can argue FF is never about the combat, it's the story, the characters, the beautiful world and such. All fine and dandy, but combat is also a huge aspect nevertheless.

 

[Lemondish]

If they give us an option to keep it turn-based (and I don't see why that would be difficult) I am going to play that way and that way only. I like the strategy.

It's difficult because it requires tuning every single encounter to be played using two drastically different gameplay methods.

Encounter tuning, to me, will be the biggest and most welcome change. Even if they stick to turn based, what the developers have learned since '97 should help create a far more engaging combat system than the original.

 

[Karkador]

I'm pretty certain FFVII sold far better than Kingdom Hearts. But that isn't really answering my question.

FF7 was a LONG time ago, man. Copies sold is irrelevant when a lot of those people have likely grown out of gaming already. It's about what demographics are still interested in playing videogames, and what demographic Square Enix thinks is still worth marketing towards.

Let's give ourselves a hint - Square Enix makes more games nowadays like Kingdom Hearts than FF7.

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

Do people in general consider Chrono Trigger's battle system to be antiquated?

 

[Dark_castle]

I'll ask this again. In the FFVII remake, do you want the Sephiroth boss fight to feel something similar to the original game or something similar to the Kingdom Hearts Sephiroth boss fights?

Closer to the original.

 

[Two Words]

FF7 was a LONG time ago, man. Copies sold is irrelevant when a lot of those people have likely grown out of gaming already. It's about what demographics are still interested in playing videogames, and what demographic Square Enix thinks is still worth marketing towards.

Let's give ourselves a hint - Square Enix makes more games nowadays like Kingdom Hearts than FF7.

The average age of people that play videos mess is a lot older than you think. You're acting like only kids and teens play video games. Square Enix is making this game because there has been a constant plea to remake this game for 10 years. The KH kids weren't the ones making that plea. You've got this attitude that anything that isn't an action game cannot succeed at the same scale when that simply isn't true. Furthermore, why would SE make 3 huge RPG games that are going to be very identical in gameplay? I think it makes a lot of sense for FFVII remake to be a full-on turn based RPG, FFXV to be an action RPG with some roots in place still from older FF games , and Kingdom Hearts to be a full-on action RPG. The idea that all 3 need to be action RPGs to be successful is boring and misplaced.

 

[Death Penalty]

I'll ask this again. In the FFVII remake, do you want the Sephiroth boss fight to feel something similar to the original game or something similar to the Kingdom Hearts Sephiroth boss fights?

The latter was by far the more interesting fight, though I would hope that there would be decent compromise to preserve some of the feel of old VII. It's battle system was nothing revolutionary but it had some great ideas that are well worth maintaining.

Nah, I wasn't very serious, chill.

Anywho, mainline FF has never been full-on action until XV. That's what I referred to as the core system design (and thus audience). I mean people can argue FF is never about the combat, it's the story, the characters, the beautiful world and such. All fine and dandy, but combat is also a huge aspect nevertheless.

It can be hard to tell when someone isn't being serious so I apologize. My counterargument would be that FF has always been about evolution as much as anything else. If evolving away from turn-based is an improvement, it's a perfectly viable path. One thing the series can't afford is stagnation.

Granted, a fantastic evolution of turn-based combat is also a reasonable option. In my opinion though, XIII already tried this and failed.

 

[Arkeband]

Tell me more about it.

Wow thanks for finding box art of the game I mentioned in my post, you're a really good Googler.

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

Maybe combat isn't all that important.

I often wonder just exactly why I love FF VII's combat and dislike XIII's.

I wonder how much does the fact that I love the characters, setting, story and music in FF VII is directly linked to my enjoyment of it's battle system. How it can permeate in to the overall experience.

The opposite seems to be true of FF XIII.

 

[MarmaladeChainsaw]

FF7 was a LONG time ago, man. Copies sold is irrelevant when a lot of those people have likely grown out of gaming already.

Have you any proof of that?

 

[OmegaDL50]

Do people in general consider Chrono Trigger's battle system to be antiquated?

I certainly don't

Then again turned based or action oriented has nothing to do with them being antiquated or modern.

Ys, Hylide or (Fa)Xanadu are action RPGS, from the 80's.

How the mechanics are implemented and a given flow to the combat is something that should be focused on though.

One of the biggest appeals of FFVII's combat system was the materia combinations, the flashy limit attacks, and the spectacle of the fancy animated summon attacks (well Fancy for 1997 at least)

Looking at the recent trend with FFXV, the video with the Ramuh summon, which is something probably expected of FF7 if was released in this era. To expect something massively powerful and majestic.

They can keep the spirit of FF7 by making the combat fast paced along the lines of FFX-2 so those who don't want to strategy and want to brain dead press buttons for instant gratification, then again that won't please anyone, no? Because strategy and tactics are something to be considered in games of this type. I definitely don't expect full on action either.

Final Fantasy is synonymous with the Role Playing Game genre in Japan alongside Dragon Quest, they are the two longest running RPG series in Japan.

So with that said, playing FF7, I expect to be an RPG at it's core and everything that entails. A genre shift is not necessary.

If I wanted a character action game, I wouldn't play FF, I'd play Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta instead.

Sometimes it's good to respect a series for what it has on it's own merits and not change it into something it's not. Of course change isn't bad, but there are limits within reason for everything.

 

[AuthenticM]

Do people in general consider Chrono Trigger's battle system to be antiquated?

No, but then again, it was a lot better than FFVII's.

 

[MarmaladeChainsaw]

Maybe combat isn't all that important.

I often wonder just exactly why I love FF VII's combat and dislike XIII's.

I wonder how much does the fact that I love the characters, setting, story and music in FF VII is directly linked to my enjoyment of it's battle system. How it can permeate in to the overall experience.

The opposite seems to be true of FF XIII.

If you're anything like me it's because in ff7 you have much more customisation of your characters with materia and equipment, full control of what every party member does in battle and not every enemy is a damage sponge that you have to autobattle until it staggers.

Edit: and all the goddamn enemies in FF13 are palette swaps

 

[Dark_castle]

It can be hard to tell when someone isn't being serious so I apologize. My counterargument would be that FF has always been about evolution as much as anything else. If evolving away from turn-based is an improvement, it's a perfectly viable path. One thing the series can't afford is stagnation.

Granted, a fantastic evolution of turn-based combat is also a reasonable option. In my opinion though, XIII already tried this and failed.

Here's the key though. Action shouldn't be thought of as an evolution of turn-based, as both approaches date back to the early ages of computer gaming.

What FF13 had, I wasn't a fan as well. The other day I boot up Grandia 3. So much fun with its turn-based combat.

 

[badcrumble]

I hope Cait Sith has more limit breaks this time around.

I don't dislike him like most seem to do. The scene where his sacrifice his body in an emotional scene only to appear a minute later is going to be a thing to behold in the remake.

I expect him to have more limit breaks and also probably to lose the Dice/Slots stuff entirely, while keeping some of his Slots moveset. I wouldn't be surprised to see his Slots move that turns the entire party into one giant Cait Sith with everyone's stats added together become his top-level limit break, for example.

Dice or a slot reel won't happen, though, because they look dated and are too luck-reliant, I think.

 

[inner-G]

FF7 was a LONG time ago, man. Copies sold is irrelevant when a lot of those people have likely grown out of gaming already.

You are objectively wrong

Gaming advocacy group: The average gamer is 31, and most play on a console
http://venturebeat.com/2014/04/29/g...erage-gamer-is-31-and-most-play-on-a-console/

"The average age of someone who plays games is 31 years old. In fact, more gamers are over the age of 36 than between the ages of 18 to 35 or under the age of 18."

 

[anaron]

People keep saying "outdated" like it's a word that carries any sort of weight. What makes it outdated? Why do you think active battle is any more modern than turn-based? Both have been been used in RPGs since practically the beginning, and are both still used today. Why do you think people who want a remake, rather than a re-imagining holding on to "nostalgia?" Why do you think those people are, but the other people excited for a remake of a 20 year old game aren't guided by the same emotion? Why do you think a game that has sold upwards of what, 20 million copies and continues to sell is in some dire need to draw in fans unfamiliar with the source game?

The answer to all of these, of course, is that you would prefer they do some new things. This is a fine opinion to hold, but it's not any different than people who want to see the game they love with modern graphics. Neither side is more right, less instilled by the holy specter of "nostalgia" or any other such nonsense. It's just a preference, plain and simple.

thank you!

 

[Karkador]

The average age of people that play videos mess is a lot older than you think. You're acting like only kids and teens play video games. Square Enix is making this game because there has been a constant plea to remake this game for 10 years. The KH kids weren't the ones making that plea. You've got this attitude that anything that isn't an action game cannot succeed at the same scale when that simply isn't true.

ESA says the average age for videogame players in 2014 is 31. That actually conveniently lines up with the age of original fans of FF7 - most of them are gonna be in their 30s now.

However, that doesn't mean that those gamers are still into the genre, and what it entails. I'm nostalgic for FF7, but I don't like the JRPG genre anymore. The most common complaint I hear (and share) is that people who grew up playing those SNES and PS1 JRPGs simply do not have the time or the patience to sink into that kind of game anymore. If anything, a modernization would be the best thing for those players.

Furthermore, why would SE make 3 huge RPG games that are going to be very identical in gameplay?

I don't know, why did they make three FF13 games? To some degree, I think it's apparent that SE's design decisions are dictated by marketing (and merchandising).

I don't think FF7 has to be identical in gameplay to XV and KH in order to be "ARPG", but if they are aiming for this to be as big as their other headlining titles, it's most likely going to change.

I expect that if they're going to stick with ATB, this is going to be a relatively low budget remake for a niche audience.

I think it makes a lot of sense for FFVII remake to be a full-on turn based RPG, FFXV to be an action RPG with some roots in place still from older FF games , and Kingdom Hearts to be a full-on action RPG. The idea that all 3 need to be action RPGs to be successful is boring and misplaced.

Let's be honest, though - there are many similarities in how KH and XV look and play. You could say XV is more complex, certainly. Then there's the success in Crisis Core, with action combat. Then there's other new Final Fantasy branded games like Dissidia, with more action combat. XIII as well, while sort of turn-based, had a much faster pace and required some reflexes.

You're right that Square Enix doesn't just use the same exact thing across every game, but it's pretty apparent that their brand at the moment is neck-deep in Action RPG. Anything turn-based is an outlier at this point.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

New Weekly Famitsu interview with Nomura translated on Kotaku:
http://kotaku.com/how-the-final-fantasy-vii-remake-came-to-be-1713573146

Lol @ this part:
“As preproduction went along and I offered my opinions on what I thought should be done, Mr. Kitase would asked me how the individual elements should be adjusted in fine detail.” Nomura recalled. “It was very perplexing. Then one day, as I was checking the internal company presentation video it said ‘Director Tetsuya Nomura’ at the end.”

Apparently this was news to Nomura who had assumed that Kitase would be reclaiming the director’s chair for the remake of his game. “So I called up Mr. Kitase and said, ‘It says that I’m the director for some reason.’ To which he replied, ‘Of course it does.’” Nomura said with a nervous laugh.

The “’I thought you were going to direct!’ ‘Well I thought YOU were going to direct!’” episode was something that happened in the initial stages of the project’s inception and Nomura has stated that he is presently well aware of and well into his position as director.

I'm a big fan of Namura... and I was so happy when I saw his name in the trailer as the director.

But now, I wish if Kitase reclaimed his director's role because I'm afraid that Namura is going to change the game too much from the original one we all loved and adored :\

I'm really worried now

 

[Death Penalty]

Here's the key though. Action shouldn't be thought of as an evolution of turn-based, as both approaches date back to the early ages of computer gaming.

What FF13 had, I wasn't a fan as well. The other day I boot up Grandia 3. So much fun with its turn-based combat.

I'd actually adore a turn-based system like Grandia's where position, area of effect, movement capabilities, etc. all come into play, especially with the massive budget VII will surely have. It would alleviate a lot of the core problems of turn-based combat. Add in environmental factors and terrain to scale and I'd be ecstatic! I find it hard to imagine that they'd change things so drastically if they do go for turn-based though...

Coincidentally, Breath of Fire V is one of my favorite JRPGs ever and it does something a lot like this.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

I'm a big fan of Namura... and I was so happy when I saw his name in the trailer as the director.

But now, I wish if Kitase reclaimed his director's role because I'm afraid that Namura is going to change the game too much from the original one we all loved and adored :\

I'm really worried now

Zippers will be multiplied.

 

[KTallguy]

Please, keep the ATB combat. Update it, but don't make it KH.

I'd be happy if the transition from movement to combat was seamless, personally. So Chrono Trigger style. It does mean the levels have to be massively redesigned.

And for people saying that Square is a action rpg based company, Bravely Default has been pretty successful. So has Persona.

 

[Arkeband]

Here's the key though. Action shouldn't be thought of as an evolution of turn-based, as both approaches date back to the early ages of computer gaming.

What FF13 had, I wasn't a fan as well. The other day I boot up Grandia 3. So much fun with its turn-based combat.

I think people have already hit this on the head - if they're going to spice up the ATB, X-2's added some things that legitimately worked - ATB bars with variable lengths and chain bonuses. With this, bosses would also be more dynamic since they could execute attacks while your members are carrying out commands.

This would probably deepen the gameplay too, since the original game was pretty damn easy and the end-game was just figuring out ways to multiply 9999 damage with materia.

 

[Two Words]

ESA says the average age for videogame players in 2014 is 31. That actually conveniently lines up with the age of original fans of FF7 - most of them are gonna be in their 30s now.

However, that doesn't mean that those gamers are still into the genre, and what it entails. I'm nostalgic for FF7, but I don't like the JRPG genre anymore. The most common complaint I hear (and share) is that people who grew up playing those SNES and PS1 JRPGs simply do not have the time or the patience to sink into that kind of game anymore. If anything, a modernization would be the best thing for those players.




I don't know, why did they make three FF13 games? To some degree, I think it's apparent that SE's design decisions are dictated by marketing (and merchandising).

I don't think FF7 has to be identical in gameplay to XV and KH in order to be "ARPG", but if they are aiming for this to be as big as their other headlining titles, it's most likely going to change.

I expect that if they're going to stick with ATB, this is going to be a relatively low budget remake for a niche audience.




Let's be honest, though - there are many similarities in how KH and XV look and play. You could say XV is more complex, certainly. Then there's the success in Crisis Core, with action combat. Then there's other new Final Fantasy branded games like Dissidia, with more action combat. XIII as well, while sort of turn-based, had a much faster pace and required some reflexes.

You're right that Square Enix doesn't just use the same exact thing across every game, but it's pretty apparent that their brand at the moment is neck-deep in Action RPG. Anything turn-based is an outlier at this point.

That's why I was saying the biggest thing they should do as a turn based game is reduce the number of encounters and make the encounters last longer. Each battle should hold a bit more meaning. We have games like Wtcher 3 coming out that take much longer than FFVII to 100%, so I don't think it is simply the length of the game. Things like checkpoint saves and lack of clarity on where to go next are things that bother people. I will bet this remake will have fast travel without the air ship, for example.

 

[threelights]

ATB with modernization changes, (smaller auto-attacks so they're not standing in place, more cinematic to look at, maybe attack chains of somesort) is literally all it needs to do. If they change it too much they veer away from nostalgia, which is the only reason this is a thing.

Your idea to update one of the easiest, most straightforward, and repetitive battle systems is to add visual flair? And that is "modernized"? Do you work for Ubisoft or something?

The original game is brain dead easy, there is no strategy. There are less than 10 battles in a 60 hour game that requires thinking (and some of them are optional). This is not enough to warrant an ATB/Turn-based system, a system that relies completely on strategies and customization to be fun. But hey, at least you are the one ordering everyone to do nothing but attack instead of the AI, right?

The problem with the original is not that it has an ATB battle system, the problem is that the game is not fun to play. It takes dozens of hours to find any challenge, they are rare, few and far between, and not worth the slog that all the other battles are.
Random battles don't need to be hard, but they should require more than attacking nonstop.
Bosses should require a deeper strategy than "don't attack when it's tail is up".
Customization in that game is great, yet all it does is leave you overpowered for the endgame (that is also easy).

I love FFVII and wouldn't mind either battle system, but if they are going to keep the game as easy as the original, then at least make it action so it's more fun to mash...

 

[Skilletor]

I'm a big fan of Namura... and I was so happy when I saw his name in the trailer as the director.

But now, I wish if Kitase reclaimed his director's role because I'm afraid that Namura is going to change the game too much from the original one we all loved and adored :\

I'm really worried now

Is Namura a meme I'm not aware of?

I've seen a few people spell it this way, and consistently, so I'm not sure if it's a simple typo, lol.

Dammit, top of the page.

 

[KTallguy]

The point of ATB is that it's simple and easy to get into for a general audience. That was the point of menu based combat in the first place.

There are a billion ways you can make ATB more tactical, balanced and interesting without throwing out the entire system.

 

[Zukuu]

there is no strategy.

 

[Two Words]

Your idea to update one of the easiest, most straightforward, and repetitive battle systems is to add visual flair? And that is "modernized"? Do you work for Ubisoft or something?

The original game is brain dead easy, there is no strategy. There are less than 10 battles in a 60 hour game that requires thinking (and some of them are optional). This is not enough to warrant an ATB/Turn-based system, a system that relies completely on strategies and customization to be fun. But hey, at least you are the one ordering everyone to do nothing but attack instead of the AI, right?

The problem with the original is not that it has an ATB battle system, the problem is that the game is not fun to play. It takes dozens of hours to find any challenge, they are rare, few and far between, and not worth the slog that all the other battles are.
Random battles don't need to be hard, but they should require more than attacking nonstop.
Bosses should require a deeper strategy than "don't attack when it's tail is up".
Customization in that game is great, yet all it does is leave you overpowered for the endgame (that is also easy).

I love FFVII and wouldn't mind either battle system, but if they are going to keep the game as easy as the original, then at least make it action so it's more fun to mash...

A good place to start would be to make attack damage as types. Slash, blunt, pierce, etc. Each enemy should have its weaknesses. A lot of what is fun in turn based games is figuring out what works against enemies. That's why I have never been a fan of "Scan". It should be taken out, imo.