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Final Fantasy Versus XIII Won't Be at TGS + Other S-E TGS Line-up News
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
demosthenes
Member
H_Prestige said:
Something about Nomura not wanting to be responsible for a mainline FF game or something like that.
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
While it seems like the best option, does S-E have rules about what games get the number, Apparently direct sequels aren't allowed to move the number forward (X-2,XIII-2) while online spin-off's (even if they come out the same year as a single player numbered title ) are.Krev said:
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Don't care. As long as The Last Guardian will make up for this *shocking* news.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
HomerSimpson-Man said:
The new DNF
DaSorcerer7
Member
Wow, thought for sure it would be there in some form.
dark_chris
Member
Its like Duke Nukem Forever, except this is not cool.
Aeana said:
Me too, though it would have taken PS1-era development times for that!
I was trying to make this point on earlier SE-development-hell threads, but if they're going to take 5-6 years from announcement to release, they really have to expand the age range of their target audience.
After playing FFXII as a 30-year-old adult, seeing its amazing English translation, and being delighted that the company whose games I had enjoyed since childhood were still a whole lot of fun despite me having matured, I was left baffled by Toriyama's statement that they were targeting teenagers as their fan base with FF13. Their games take so long to develop that people in the target audience will have aged right out of it by the time the game comes out. Look at all the people in this thread who were in high school (SE's darlings) then and are now working adults.
If you're going to take this long, you have to make a game that appeals to people in many age groups. At minimum, the range has to be larger than the number of years of development.
14-17 target fan base + 6-year development = fail;
N-and-up (where N is any age) fan base + any length of development = win.
(Somebody put this in proper mathematical notation for me! ^_^
Fimbulvetr
Member
Dunan said:
That's not necessarily bad.
You can have a game aimed at teens that doesn't drop anvils on the audience's head.
The problem is that this is a Toriyama story aimed at teens.
Why do you keep insisting this game won't be released before 2013 in the west? In every thread, you've said this, when it's highly probable that this might either be released simultaneously everywhere (probably Q2-Q3 2012), or that it'll get similar treatment to XIII, XIII-2 and most other SE games have been getting in recent years (with the exception of Dragon Quest IX & remakes, for which Nintendo and their slow-ass JRPG localization pace is probably to blame, and Birth By Sleep, for which they added tons of content & polish): a release in Japan first and then 1-3 months later elsewhere. The only reason why we aren't seeing anything from Versus isn't because it's had some Duke Nukem Forever level problems in development or that it's still such an early state, it's simply because Square Enix is already hyping two (or three, if you count Theathrhythm) Final Fantasy games as it is. Versus will get its time in the spotlight once Type-0 & XIII-2 are out of the picture.Nirolak said:
After the announcement of Versus, XIII, Type-0 and 3rd Birthday, Square Enix hasn't announced any games too far in advance, so this won't be a continuing way of practice for them, going onwards. The biggest one will probably be the gap between KH3D's announcement & release, which will be ~2 years. Other than that, games like Dissidia, Theathrhythm, XIII-2 and the like have been or will be released within 6-12 months after their announcement.
And they weren't _going_ to take 6 years from announcement to release, but they just ran into some problems. They didn't quite have the man-power to develop all these planned games simultaneously, which lead into teams being shifted around and some (usually smaller) projects like 3rd Birthday taking priority over the bigger ones like Type-0 (so that they'd at least get some games out), not to even mention the problems with the Crystal Tools. Sure, Square Enix screwed up, but they've since tried to fix the situation (not to announce games too early, be better prepared to work on current & future platforms).
The Last One
Member
Damn you, Square...
But at least KH 3D, type-0 and XIII-2 will be there =/
But at least KH 3D, type-0 and XIII-2 will be there =/
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Fimbulvetr said:
It was written bad (in its english translation at least). Anyway, nor worse than previous FFs main entries I guess, XII not included of course.
I agree with people complaining that the saga should not specifically target a teen's audience, but in my opinion the greatest thing would be targetting all audiences, like Nintendo games for the most or H.Miyazaki's masterpieces. They have the capacity to do so, they just need to be a bit more coherent :\
Fimbulvetr
Member
Perfo said:
Yeah, I just meant that Toriyama is a bad writer.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Fimbulvetr said:
Yeah sorry, I removed the first part infact of what I've written
Speaking of Toriyama, he is indeed a bad writer but he has funny ideas that could develop in something entertaining. He should just suggest ideas and let others do his work, trying to give sense to his puzzling (!) puzzles -.-'
Whatever... can't say I'm not attracted by the bullshit he will fire at me with FFXIII-2 meeting timetravelling, paradox ect. it will be a hell of a funny trashy no-sense entertaining ride
Famassu said:
They weren't going to, but they should have been ready for a situation in which they had to. The previous installment, FF12, came out nearly 5 years after it was announced, but even with that long wait, the game was attractive to older fans, so it wasn't like the people who'd been hyped up ever since the initial announcement were going to turn away in disgust. With FF13, despite now having experience with a longer development period, and having an ambitious, long-term plan for a family of games, they aimed the game (the first FNC game, at least) at a smaller audience. They're really shooting themselves in the foot by letting Toriyama's juvenilia into mainline games; leave that for the smaller, quicker releases.
Appollowexx
Member
Oh come on....
Show a new trailer at the very least.
Show a new trailer at the very least.
King of the Potato People
Member
Final Fantasy Versus XIII
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
I don't expect Versus to release.
XIII-2 on the otherhand looks great. Can't wait to see the TGS trailer.
XIII-2 on the otherhand looks great. Can't wait to see the TGS trailer.
Die Squirrel Die
Member
FTH said:
With the launch three months off and this being it's debut in its home turf I expect SE to really bring it for XIII-2, especially after it was playable at E3. SE need to get on the offensive building hype for this, because as far as I'm aware, it wasn't just the west that had a cool reception to XIII.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
This is apparently kind of what happened with FFXIII, but...Perfo said:
For some reason, I expect Toriyama to be as controlling with the script/scenario in FFXIII-2.Wiki/FFXIII Scenario Ultimania said:
Shadow Red
Member
I'm thinking Versus will be released on 2013.
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FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
we.are.the.armada said:
THIS^
I know it supposedly takes place in the same universe/timeline as FF13 or something.
What the hell kind of name is Versus 13 in the first place!?
The Praiseworthy
Member
Shadow Red said:
Wasn't it obvious already?
Dec 2012 Japan \ Q1 2013 Worldwide .
Die Squirrel Die
Member
FantasticMrFoxdie said:
No it doesn't, they have never said it does. In fact they have continually gone out of their way to explain that at most the FNC games share a very basic mythology, but the actual details of each are dependant on the director's interpretations and the worlds and settings themselves are not related in any other way.
Dark Schala said:
Toriyama seems to be focused on showing, not telling, in his story approach. The problem he has is that he and his team create a very rich canvas but he focuses too much on characters. His decision to regulate so much of the background of. FF13 to datalogs and background materials (episode Zero, etc) for example was not a bad idea but his focus on the story itself and characters would have benefited so much more if they were integrated better.
Edit: A lot of the stories he has written for that matter suffer from this. He must be going for deep meanings to his tales because his story do make some sense but you need to really analyze them to understand where he was going. I have no problem with that but I can def. see why most people would.
What is his most straight forward story anyway?
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Die Squirrel Die said:
I stand corrected. Still, the media has said it, which is where I guess subconsciously got that..
Either way, I think this should still be called FFXV. Even if its the same mythology, they can be different franchise names like the FF7 and Ivalice games.
Die Squirrel Die
Member
FantasticMrFoxdie said:
Never trust the media, they are idiots.
But yeah, the connecting mythology is definitely not an excuse to not rename this FFXV, given how loose it is.
For me the bigger reason to keep this as an offshoot of the FF brand rather than a numbered title is that the battle system is action based rather than ATB/turn based. I feel that if VersusXIII was made numbered that it'd probably mark the end of ATB/TB mainline games and that would be a shame.
I wouldn't be adverse to it becoming an offshoot series, like how Agito -> Type0 was because they feel there's a particular style to that game that could become it's own series. An ARPG with all the production values of a mainline Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts gameplay without the Disney trappings.
Still I do agree with those saying that Versus XIII could confuse the general audience, especially after XIII-2 (a direct sequel that is in the same universe as XIII) is released. They should rename it in such a way that signifies that this is an important and largescale production of its own.
Die Squirrel Die
Member
Rinoa said:
I realise that is a distinct possibility.
H_Prestige
Banned
Sure. As far as I'm concerned it's the only legitimate next gen FF game and proper successor to FFXII.B_Rik_Schitthaus said:
H_Prestige
Banned
SE never showed the public how FFXIII played before they sent out the AC demo. I don't think Kitase/Toriyama even said much about the game structure and level design in interviews, except they would "completely redefine the town/dungeon" dynamic.Aeana said:
This doesn't apply to FFXIII.Toth said:
FFXIII isn't complicated. It's a simple story that was executed poorly. For one, he doesn't focus on showing. It doesn't work the way you think because we're told everything there is to know. Whether that's the character development (Lightning's lol speech which basically summarises how she's changed because clearly we must be too dumb to know unless she explained how she changed) or the plot (numerous speeches explaining exactly what is happening, and the dreaded villain exposition spot).
There isn't any deep meaning to his writing. It's fanfiction level tripe. There isn't need for any real analysis. It's just that most people don't want to make the effort to understand such shit without substance when it would just work better if he actually knew how to tell a story well. You know, ranging from setting up the plot, knowing how to introduce the world to the audience without ruining the pacing, or giving subtle ideas about worldbuilding and so forth without bringing everything to a halt.
He's just a shit writer who has a lot to learn before he's even competent. Unfortunately, he's already penning tales before that point.
it's almost amusing how incompetent Squeenix's development process is. I say almost because it's leaning more to the sad side now
This is an amazingly succinct summary of the problem with jRPG storytelling altogether. These motherfuckers need to learn nuance and subtlety, 'cause wherever they learned to write has fucking led them astray. I cannot imagine these people can actually be proud of the tripe they write in game stories.
Verendus said:
This is an amazingly succinct summary of the problem with jRPG storytelling altogether. These motherfuckers need to learn nuance and subtlety, 'cause wherever they learned to write has fucking led them astray. I cannot imagine these people can actually be proud of the tripe they write in game stories.
So from what i'm reading in this thread, we seem to know how much the entirety of the story of Versus is connected to the FNC lore?
I don't see any reason to call it XV more than you would call Type-0 XV. At that point we'd just be throwing around numbers.
Also, I liked XIII. It felt a lot like X, but with more emphasis on sidequests with the cie'th stone missions towards the endgame stuff. I liked both plenty.
I don't see any reason to call it XV more than you would call Type-0 XV. At that point we'd just be throwing around numbers.
Also, I liked XIII. It felt a lot like X, but with more emphasis on sidequests with the cie'th stone missions towards the endgame stuff. I liked both plenty.
xion4360
Member
I dont think its all about the dev process anymore.. I really think at this point its more about lining up their release schedule properly. They have other, smaller titles that need focus in the media and time between them and they dont want to cannibalize their own marketing. Sure Versus has been in the pipe forever, but I feel like its development was held back by other titles and now its just a matter of waiting for its time.
I really think once the focus is off FFXIII-2, Versus will be next in line.
I really think once the focus is off FFXIII-2, Versus will be next in line.
SafeinSound
Member
xion4360 said:
Somehow we haven't waited long enough though.
Amir0x said:
Very true on that Amir0x. JPN RPGs and amine have always suffered from this though so it's really a cultural thing.
Perhaps I should amend my original post to say that he likes to show not tell on his scenario planning but forces too much melodrama on his characters in their dialogue to make up for that. That should be something he focuses on improving but...yeah...
Nora Kisaragi
Banned
xion4360 said:
I'm really doubting that. Timeline goes like this: FF Versus announced -> Dissidia was announced and released -> then they announced and released FF14 -> then they announced and released a sequel to Dissidia -> then they announced and are releasing XIII-2, then they announced FF TheatRHYTHM for FF's 25 anniversary (2012). In reality, TheatRHYHM may be released before Versus because Nomura has gone on record saying FF13 Versus may NOT be released until 2012, which could be a Decemberish release date.
Oh and let's not forget Nomura said he wants to focus on KH games before Versus or something like that.
And do tell us what is so incompetent in Versus XIII's development process? A big-ass JRPG that's been in development for about 3 years, how is that SO incompetent? Can game development not take more than 1,5-2 years per game nowadays?Amir0x said:
If anything, it's the marketing department that is incompetent, since Versus not being shown at TGS this year is mostly a marketing reason, not because they are having any kind of Duke Nukem Forever like problems with the development. They've already got two big-budget FF RPGs at the event and one music-action-rhythm game with a FF theme, they don't feel the need to add a third FF RPG and fourth FF themed game in the mix.