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[ShadyAcshuns]

Didn't buy because I don't want to have to buy a PS6 to play part three.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

That FF7 Rebirth isn't a top selling game tells you everything you need to know about how one of the most highly anticipated game remakes has been met with significant disappointment.

Yeah, massive disappointment that 93 metacritic game has.

What a clueless post.

 

[Bernardougf]

This video isn't about the quality of Rebirth really more about how Square were correct not to chase high end graphics for every single asset and focus on FFs core strengths. I.e. amount of content, globe trotting adventure unique combat system etc.

If you have finished the game you know what I mean. The amount of unique content is staggering I'm at 170 hours on my first playthrough. I haven't really grinded or got stuck either. Whatever your thoughts are it's incredible this was shipped in 3 years.

It's interesting that the video author feels it's fine for other studios to push high end graphics as it's part of there identity like Naughty Dog.

Before you complain about FF Rebirth graphics a couple of things to consider.

Maxmillion Dude downloaded a 4k texture pack for FF Remake that was 49 gigs. How big would an equivalent be for Rebirth?

Ghost of tsushima, Last of Us Part 2 and Doom Eternal all released about the same time as Remake. FFVII has been out for 2 months, the studios of the above games haven't released a trailer between them for their next game.

What are your thoughts GAF? I think it's hard to argue with the above video. I think every studio should probably try to incrementally improve graphics at their own speed genre and budget depending. Chasing the cutting edge is ridiculous though only a small subset of studios should be attempting that.

Only Rockstar should be trying to attempt cutting edge graphics and massive scale and even they have there limits.

Gameplay/FPS over pixel count and puddle reflections everyday!

Also FF remake/Rebirth suxxxxxx ass

 

[Ulysses 31]

Exposes how this current generation of FF game devs need a heck of a lot more time to say less. 3 games to "remake" one game and then it's not even a true remake, more like a multiverse sequel fanfic.

is this now understood to be an objective 'positive'? doesn't it matter at all as to just how much fun all that 'unique content' actually is?...

Yes, quantity trumps quality.

/s

 

[TheAssist]

It's kind of exciting to me how divisive this game is, honestly...

I can already see that I may not like it, because of the aforementioned (by some people here) "Kingdom Hearts style dialogue" (I'm totally fine with KH dialogue, IN Kingdom Hearts. But not in FF 7).

But yeah, I heard people saying is like the best ever, and they are super looking forward to the third part, and others are incredibly disappointed or straight up say it's a really bad game...

In any case, I will give it a try, but my expectations are very low.

You know how it is these days. Everything is either the best or the worst thing ever.
OG characters have hands like freaking bazookas and translations is questionable in the best of times. Best game ever. Remake has a few bad textures. Game is literally causing the war in Ukraine.
And people are absolutely unwilling to accept that their opinion is not universal.

That being said, Rebirth is the best thing that has happened to humanity as a whole, since we started walking on two feet and everyone who does not agree also forces little kids to kill cute puppies. Or so I've heard.

 

[Hudo]

Maybe they can outsource the gameplay to PlatinumGames or Team Ninja.

Holy shit, that would be awesome.

 

[Zephyranthes]

I can already see that I may not like it, because of the aforementioned (by some people here) "Kingdom Hearts style dialogue" (I'm totally fine with KH dialogue, IN Kingdom Hearts. But not in FF 7).

That kind of dialogue is pretty much exclusive to Sephiroth, who is only present for like 1% of the total length of Remake and Rebirth. In general, the dialogue in these games is excellent.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah, massive disappointment that 93 metacritic game has.

What a clueless post.

What do you think Square Enix cares more about the metacritic score or the sales?

 

[peronmls]

Square Enix and developers in general usually do this. Look at FF13 for example. Gameplay was very flawed but looked, sounded and had great cinematics. Great set pieces. Once you get to FF13-2 and LR it looks like crap and is not as polished, but improved gameplay and substance are added.

 

[Boss Mog]

Honestly aside from a few ugly rock textures here and there I actually find the graphics to be quite nice, and I play in performance mode.

 

[Fbh]

Square Enix and developers in general usually do this. Look at FF13 for example. Gameplay was very flawed but looked, sounded and had great cinematics. Great set pieces. Once you get to FF13-2 and LR it looks like crap and is not as polished, but improved gameplay and substance are added.

That has been a consistent issue with FF since moving into the HD era.
Square wanted to stick to their reputation of high end graphics but in doing so started to sacrifice everything else in their games.

FFXIII: Great graphics... hyper linear design, basically no exploration, no towns or real shops, very few NPC's, no side activities until very late into the game, etc. Basically a very pretty game about running in a straight line fighting enemies
FFXV: Great graphics ... incomplete mess of a game at launch with lacking combat, one playable character (at launch), a boring open world filled with terrible sidequests, some of the worst bosses in the franchise, bad storytelling that requires you to watch a movie to make sense of the world and plot and then wants you to buy DLC actually develop the characters
FF7R: Great graphics ... hyper linear design, mostly consisting of small areas interconnected by constant forced walking and "squeezing", frequent obvious filler, mostly terrible sidequests, etc (still a fun game though)
FFXVI: Great graphics ... boring empty world with nothing to do or find, no cities, Ps3 era towns, one playable character, super linear and boring dungeons, some of the worst sidequests in recent RPG's and some of the blandest and most undercooked RPG mechanics in any recent RPG

These days the best you can hope for in a FF is that at least the combat is really good, like FF7R and XIII, and can carry the game somewhat. But I'd gladly give up graphical quality if it meant a more robust experience outside of combat.
(again though I haven't played Rebirth, opinions seem split about it succeeding in this regard).

 

[The artful mincer]

is this now understood to be an objective 'positive'? doesn't it matter at all as to just how much fun all that 'unique content' actually is?...

No...but unique content is probably preferable to copy and paste content.

For what it's worth I think the vast majority of Rebirth content is fun and unique.

 

[Zephyranthes]

What do you think Square Enix cares more about the metacritic score or the sales?

They care about both, actually, especially when you're talking about a flagship brand like Final Fantasy. Critical success improves the brand's reputation, which in turn improves its long-term viability. Whether or not Rebirth can be deemed a sales success at this point is debatable, but it obviously would have been far worse if the critical reception to Remake had been poor.

 

[The artful mincer]

That has been a consistent issue with FF since moving into the HD era.
Square wanted to stick to their reputation of high end graphics but in doing so started to sacrifice everything else in their games.

FFXIII: Great graphics... hyper linear design, basically no exploration, no towns or real shops, very few NPC's, no side activities until very late into the game, etc. Basically a very pretty game about running in a straight line fighting enemies
FFXV: Great graphics ... incomplete mess of a game at launch with lacking combat, one playable character (at launch), a boring open world filled with terrible sidequests, some of the worst bosses in the franchise, bad storytelling that requires you to watch a movie to make sense of the world and plot and then wants you to buy DLC actually develop the characters
FF7R: Great graphics ... hyper linear design, mostly consisting of small areas interconnected by constant forced walking and "squeezing", frequent obvious filler, mostly terrible sidequests, etc (still a fun game though)
FFXVI: Great graphics ... boring empty world with nothing to do or find, no cities, Ps3 era towns, one playable character, super linear and boring dungeons, some of the worst sidequests in recent RPG's and some of the blandest and most undercooked RPG mechanics in any recent RPG

These days the best you can hope for in a FF is that at least the combat is really good, like FF7R and XIII, and can carry the game somewhat. But I'd gladly give up graphical quality if it meant a more robust experience outside of combat.
(again though I haven't played Rebirth, opinions seem split about it succeeding in this regard).

FF Rebirth world map and towns are WAY more ambitious than any final fantasy ever it's not even close.

That's why it's impressive that it's been developed in 3 years and the sacrifice to the graphics in some area was worth it.

 

[64bitmodels]

Yeah, massive disappointment that 93 metacritic game has.

What a clueless post.

93 metacritic, 2 million sales in 2 months, divisive fan opinions. As opposed to armored core 6 with a high 80s metacritic that got universal praise from fans and 3 million sales within the 2 months on market.. Yeah that lines up.

Keep sucking that metacridick though

 

[Ozzie666]

FF7 remake graphics were fine, Rise of the Ronin are fine. At least to me Thats the problem really. There is this constant push for better graphics, a large segement of gamers who demand more powerful graphics, this is going to sink many more developers. Don't get me wrong it's nice to see developers push, but it doesn't have to be every game. FF7 is a unique beast with nostalgia, bloat (Queens blood is fun), amazing music and a story that still holds up.

Square should be sticking to the Switch and releasing more mid-teir projects for constant smaller profits. But shareholders wan't the big cash grab. Final Fantasy tactive would do very well ased on gamers requests.

 

[tomato shrub]

It's an impressive game in terms of scope. But honestly, these days I just get burnt out by these bloated huge games. In my lifetime, I might still have some replays of the original FF7 in me, it's less than 30 hours if you know what you're doing. Even though I liked them, I can't ever replay Tears of the Kingdom or Rebirth etc. Without recency bias, they are 8/10 games and for that they are 50 hours too long.

With all these bloated open maps, I really started to appreciate how something like A Link to the Past or Resident Evil 2 can feel like a complete fullfledged adventure at like 10-15 hours playtime. That's real art. Just adding more shit is impressive from a production standpoint, but it's not impressive on a design level. Bloating shit up is easy. Be to the point, that's more difficult.

 

[Madjaba]

Stopped right before Cosmo Canyon at approx. 30 hours.

I understood that it was copy pasta after copy pasta with an awful gameplay loop that repeats itself constantly.

Yes they gave a lot of content and I loved some like Queen Blood but hated the Ubisoft like structure that drive the player away from the story.

That game sure doesn't respect the player time and is a drag unfortunately.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

It's a bad game because of the story, not the graphics

 

[semiconscious]

No...but unique content is probably preferable to copy and paste content.

For what it's worth I think the vast majority of Rebirth content is fun and unique.

well, that's lots more useful to me than 'staggering amount'. thanks for clarifying...

 

[tomato shrub]

It's a bad game because of the story, not the graphics

It's insane to me that they made this gigantic open world, which beats all of the prior games in terms of scope and probably variety, to serve as the backdrop for the second part in a glorified fan-fiction saga. This trilogy might go down as one of the weirdest projects in game history.

 

[Raven117]

Glad you liked the game OP. But extracting your enjoyment to the industry at large isn’t a good idea.

 

[German Hops]

Didn't buy because I don't want to have to buy a PS6 to play part three.

Part III will be PS5 / PS6 crossgen.

The PS6 version will be Intergrade.

 

[Varteras]

The only thing it exposed were Tifa's chesticles to my eyes.

 

[RagnarokIV]

It's insane to me that they made this gigantic open world, which beats all of the prior games in terms of scope and probably variety, to serve as the backdrop for the second part in a glorified fan-fiction saga. This trilogy might go down as one of the weirdest projects in game history.

In retrospect it’ll be up there with stupid shit like Nova Fabulous Crystalis or whatever stupid guff has been farted out after FFX.

 

[OGM_Madness]

What FF7 Rebirth exposed was how bad most other games OST are! Most games have uninspired or lack variety.

You can love or hate what Square did with FF7, but man, the music people cooked!

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

93 metacritic, 2 million sales in 2 months, divisive fan opinions. As opposed to armored core 6 with a high 80s metacritic that got universal praise from fans and 3 million sales within the 2 months on market.. Yeah that lines up.

Keep sucking that metacridick though

divisive fan opinions he says!!!! (not really)

as opposed to armored core 6, which was on every platform imaginable at release.

we have no official FF7R numbers....so yeah, that lines up with what exactly?

keep saying metacritic doesn't matter in terms of objective quality, the user score is also extremely high. yeah, not divisive at all homey.

 

[64bitmodels]

divisive fan opinions he says!!!! (not really)

it is divisive. Look at this thread and the others made here regarding the game. people are turning around on this game like they did for FFXVI in real time.

Exposes how this current generation of FF game devs need a heck of a lot more time to say less. 3 games to "remake" one game and then it's not even a true remake, more like a multiverse sequel fanfic.

But honestly, these days I just get burnt out by these bloated huge games

Stopped right before Cosmo Canyon at approx. 30 hours.

I understood that it was copy pasta after copy pasta with an awful gameplay loop that repeats itself constantly.

Yes they gave a lot of content and I loved some like Queen Blood but hated the Ubisoft like structure that drive the player away from the story.

That game sure doesn't respect the player time and is a drag unfortunately.

A big part of the success of Final Fantasy since FF6 has been that these games pushed visual boundaries in story telling. This is true of FF7 more than any franchise.

That FF7 Rebirth isn't a top selling game tells you everything you need to know about how one of the most highly anticipated game remakes has been met with significant disappointment.

- Ubisoft like exploration
- boring mini games everywhere
- hidden lore locked behind awful mini games
- forces gameplay with characters that no one wants to play.
- game is too long, section that once was an hour, now is 3/4 hours that adds nothing, ( midgarsorm on OG was way more impactfull than that swamp section on Rebirth as exemple ).

Game is Ok, but imo It exposes nothing, follow some really dated trends, bloats gameplay time without any good reasson and there is quantity over quality when doing sidecontent.

All of this.

It shows they can’t make a 3D Chrono Trigger. My biggest gripe is I don’t see myself replaying this once it’s done. It’s good yes. It takes me back to 1997 when I was playing this on my PS1. It looks good and the cutscenes are superb. It’s just super boring at times. The walking scenes were atrocious. I still play old JRPGs and I enjoy the slower parts in those games a lot more than Rebirth.

- call it “Remake” when it’s really some multiverse fan fiction bullshit

- start it as a contract job, later move it in house and reboot development because of quality concerns

- will easily take over a decade to complete + will likely span 3 console generations

- pump it with filler that nobody wants in order to justify selling it as 3 separate full priced games

- steep drop in sales for part 2 compared to the first


Yeah I’m sure the industry + investors are taking notice but not in the way OP imagines.

Hell, even look at how your comment about the game not being a disappointment got 0 likes. Hardly anyone agrees with you in this thread.

we have no official FF7R numbers....so yeah, that lines up with what exactly?

If the game was successful Square would be singing karaoke about how high the sales are. It's been 2 months and there's no official sales numbers. Products that don't sell high don't get official sales reports on- look at the Xbox One.

keep saying metacritic doesn't matter in terms of objective quality, the user score is also extremely high. yeah, not divisive at all homey.

Halo Infinite and Starfield have decent scores on Metacritic. How do you feel those games are objectively? I'm sure you've got praises to sing.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

What do you think Square Enix cares more about the metacritic score or the sales?

The game wasn't going to sell any better with whatever you listed or wanted out of it.

I think Square probably cares more about the game's quality than sales, actually. Some devs have pride in their craft and understand that building momentum long term is good for the business

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

it is divisive. Look at this thread and the others made here regarding the game. people are turning around on this game like they did for FFXVI in real time.

yes, ok, so if we use anecdotal forum data, every game that is ever released is divisive

 

[gokurho]

Ghost of tsushima, Last of Us Part 2 and Doom Eternal all released about the same time as Remake. FFVII has been out for 2 months, the studios of the above games haven't released a trailer between them for their next game.

Forgotton Last of US Part 1.....

 

[rofif]

Bloated game with terrible pacing.
Mini games and open world activities do take away from it. Even if it’s somewhat optional. Mini games are just bad games you would not play on your own outside the game. And the towers and stuff is not unique.

Took me 70 hours and I wanted it to end badly. That’s 70 hours for 1/3rd of a story with beginning in last game and ending in next. Ff 16 maybe was 40 hours but it’s a whole story. And rebirth story is kingdom hearted to hell. It makes little sense and it’s a loud impact less noise.
The best version of the movie is not the 7 hours off footage director captured for the movie. Its the 2 hours long cut with good parts.

 

[64bitmodels]

yes, ok, so if we use anecdotal forum data, every game that is ever released is divisive

Anecdotal forum data + lack of sales for the game + lack of interest mere months after launch. This isnt like fucking minecraft where its the gaf bubble- everywhere, this game has waning attention. It failed to make the same splash FF7 Remake did back in 2020.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

it is divisive. Look at this thread and the others made here regarding the game. people are turning around on this game like they did for FFXVI in real time.

lol no, more like the people who disliked it moved on so it’s only the fans left posting in the OT, same is true of every OT.

 

[64bitmodels]

lol no, more like the people who disliked it moved on so it’s only the fans left posting in the OT, same is true of every OT.

... yeah. thats how every OT works. Whatcha getting at here?

 

[Kumomeme]

reading first page of thread...this game is nothing like ubisoft. people said this has no idea.

towers? yeah but it is not handled like ubisoft. it is more like Tallneck in Horizon and i just discover it as i pass through the area. not like i seek it first like madmen. if thats how someone play is then he playing it wrong. dont bring assasins creed mentality when playing it or you gonna ruin the experience as it never what it intended to be. ubisoft full of markers and player just chase the markers blindly while this game take cue from Ghost of Tsushima in use animals and wind as direction instead.

the director mention Horizon, GoT and Witcher 3 which is clearly we can see in the game. this is not some ubisoft shit.

this game is some of example of where it handled those things well. this come from someone who already fatique and loathe ubisoft's formula game and wary that the game has similliar vibe at beginning which is, proven wrong.


only my main gripe is there is too much minigames and i end up having minigames-fatique over it.

 

[Skelterz]

To be honest the gameplay loop is pretty static with hardly any variation to it at all in the segments where your in the open areas.

I’m sure that’s pretty easy to implement rinse and repeat. Yeah there’s a lot of content but none of which is terribly unique and more often than not harder versions of existing mini games are all that await those to seek new content, I actually think the contrary I think this game exposed the lack of creativity and direction at square Enix it’s not a bad game it just isn’t a very good one.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

One of the best game I ever played

 

[64bitmodels]

as opposed to armored core 6, which was on every platform imaginable at release.

also i thought PC players pirate all the time and Xbox players don't buy games. But when we compare multiplat to exclusives now all of a sudden that goes out the window

 

[Zephyranthes]

It failed to make the same splash FF7 Remake did back in 2020.

Even if that is true, there are other possible explanations for this beyond "Rebirth is a divisive game", such as:

• Remake was Square finally delivering on nearly 15 years of hype that had been building since the 2005 tech demo. Rebirth, by contrast, only took 5 years to release after Remake. There also wasn't the anticipation that comes with wondering what the new thing will be like: everybody knew that Rebirth would look, feel, and play a lot like Remake did.
• Remake released on a PS4 platform that had over twice the install base in 2020 as the PS5 does today, and right as COVID lockdowns were starting.
• Rebirth had to compete for attention with a lot of high-profile games which also released in the first quarter of 2024, including multiple lengthy JRPGs: Like a Dragon IW, Tekken 8, P3 Reload, Helldivers 2, Dragon's Dogma 2, etc.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

also i thought PC players pirate all the time and Xbox players don't buy games. But when we compare multiplat to exclusives now all of a sudden that goes out the window

when you lose arguments, just resort to a straw man

 

[64bitmodels]

when you lose arguments, just resort to a straw man

this is more like doing an additional victory lap than anything since you've got nothing to say.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

this is more like doing an additional victory lap than anything since you've got nothing to say.

the only thing you have to say is ignoring all the evidence we actually have and inventing arguments that don't exist in this thread at all.

living in an alternate reality where user and critical reception don't matter, but a vocal minority on an internet forum do, without any hard evidence as to the actual sales numbers of the game itself.

 

[64bitmodels]

without any hard evidence as to the actual sales numbers of the game itself.

why the fuck would square keep quiet about sales if the game was a success? literally just answer me that and i'll concede.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Anecdotal forum data + lack of sales for the game + lack of interest mere months after launch. This isnt like fucking minecraft where its the gaf bubble- everywhere, this game has waning attention. It failed to make the same splash FF7 Remake did back in 2020.

To be fair, it was doomed since the first remake. They rolled the dice on making it an action RPG, and ultimately it was a mistake. They thought that would open it up to a larger audience, but all it did was alienate core fans.

And it did nothing for making FF16 a success.

As a result the franchise is on the ropes. Even if they turn around and make it an RPG again, I'm not sure anyone is interested in the franchise anymore.

Not sure I've seen a franchise self sabotage quite like this. At least nothing comes to mind.

Baldur's Gate's success is massive egg on their face. They abandoned the core of the franchise to become just another action game and people haven't come along with them.

They learned the wrong lessons of the failures of FF13, probably from some dumb survey that said the combat wasn't engaging, which was only part of the problem with that game, but since then FF15, FF16, and FF7 remake/rebirth has not had a real audience.

 

[64bitmodels]

As a result the franchise is on the ropes. Even if they turn around and make it an RPG again, I'm not sure anyone is interested in the franchise anymore.

Baldurs Gate 3 is proof that you can make everybody care about a supposedly dead franchise with 1 masterpiece. Its just that square's AAA teams are so creatively bankrupt they have no clue.

It's so baffling how they see the love and respect Octopath, Bravely Default and Live a Live gets and somehow refuses to get those guys working on bigger games.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

why the fuck would square keep quiet about sales if the game was a success? literally just answer me that and i'll concede.

They may have not hit their initial targets but we have no clue if it’s only 2M

 

[Mibu no ookami]

why the fuck would square keep quiet about sales if the game was a success? literally just answer me that and i'll concede.

You're not wrong.

The game is currently on sale for 34.99 in the US on the PlayStation store and it STILL not in the top 24 on the PlayStation Store.

Even taking out games cheaper than 20 dollars, it is still only ranked 15th and rebirth is faring far worse since it isn't on sale. It's actually behind God of War Ragnarok... Hell it's behind a full priced Baldur's Gate 3...

On the Japanese PS Store, both games are behind Persona 3 (on sale right now, but more expensive than FF16).

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Baldurs Gate 3 is proof that you can make everybody care about a supposedly dead franchise with 1 masterpiece. Its just that square's AAA teams are so creatively bankrupt they have no clue.

It's so baffling how they see the love and respect Octopath, Bravely Default and Live a Live gets and somehow refuses to get those guys working on bigger games.

FF7 was an opportunity to set the franchise back on the right path, but they totally mailed it in.

It reminds me of how I almost bought a switch when I saw they were remaking Pokemon with Let's go Eevee and Let's go Pikachu, but they decided they were going to wreck the gameplay for some reason.

It's like some people think to themselves, let's remake these fan favorite games, but let's screw them up so people stop asking for them in the future.

There are so many games with a successful template like Resident Evil, that it's crazy that people are still messing up.

 

[64bitmodels]

They may have not hit their initial targets but we have no clue if it’s only 2M

ok this is fair considering that Square's expectations for games are absolutely ridiculous. that being said, it still sold half of what FF7Remake did in the timeframe- which was 3.5 million according to some sources... So my 2 million estimate was actually overshooting it if anything

And according to that Mibu no ookami post

The game is currently on sale for 34.99 in the US on the PlayStation store and it STILL not in the top 24 on the PlayStation Store.

Even taking out games cheaper than 20 dollars, it is still only ranked 15th and rebirth is faring far worse since it isn't on sale. It's actually behind God of War Ragnarok... Hell it's behind a full priced Baldur's Gate 3...

That seems to line up with the PlayStation store sales....