FFXV Episode Duscae Combat-focused Run & Postgame
So here’s the video I said I’d get uploaded. I felt I needed this before I engaged in any further serious discussion/debate because I often found I needed to fall back on footage to back up what I was trying to convey, and this video lets me do that by linking directly to specific timestamps with the context that it's a full-runthrough and not cherrypicking. It’s not so much a ‘it’s fine learn2play’ statement as it is reinforcing my opinion in that I can see how a lot of the design decisions were very deliberately made. And by all means please don’t let me dissuade you from sending in your own feedback.
Some of this is copypasta of previous posts I’ve made, but I’ve consolidated and refined my ramblings into what I really wanted to say, in a more concise fashion (... hopefully)
Here’s the video description that pertains more to the video itself. My opinion and verdict follows after that.
And here are my thoughts:
It's kind of clear that a lot of the way the demo works is very, very specifically done to showcase different parts of what's going to be important to FFXV gameplay. Stuff like food immunity making the cave much easier to showcase the cooking system. Stuff like the summon being an overpowered set piece just to show off the summon system (you're delusional if you think you'll be able to cheese every boss this way in the full game)
Versus XIII was always going to be an action slanted JRPG and that's not going to change. The only thing that's really shifted is the focus being even more on Noctis than his companions, just because he's an overpowered wanker (largely due to plot reasons, mind you)
Regardless of Square Enix's long term plan for the Final Fantasy franchise in general, FFXV is locked into its course. That's why I think the way the demo was bundled with Type-0 was a good one. I think Square Enix realizes that at this point, there's so many different Final Fantasy games, each with its own rabid fanbases, who all want the next installment(s) to be exactly what they want, and it's simply too diverse a lot to cater to everyone. Hence bundling with Type-0 and collecting feedback only from the people who bought it is serves as a kind-of entry barrier, or a focus group if you will. It allows them to refine the experience based on feedback specifically from people who would find FFXV's premise interesting, e.g. in broad strokes:
- People who have been following development of Versus XIII for some time and have an interest in it in particular, and who understand the action combat slant was the intention to begin with.
- People who are invested into Type-0, which shares roots in ARPG systems, and has the same (current) director.
It's not just simply 'a ploy to sell more Type-0 copies'. Of course, there's still going to be some confusion, consternation and negative reception to the combat (and that is totally fine, opinions etc), but at least it's not going to be 80% people asking for turn-based combat without a clue as to the history of Versus XIII.
(It bears mentioning now that I have platinums on all KH1.5/2.5 games along with Critical runs with all optional bosses defeated, as well as close to 100% completion on the Arkham and Assassin’s Creed games, aside from multiplayer trophies)
Regarding comparisons to KH: There’s definitely a more grounded, realistic feel to the combat, and I personally find that it’s largely based on western influences. I think it’s more accurate to say that the animation work in this game is ‘fluid’, where character action games and KH feels more ‘gaseous’ (Not that I mean that in a bad way - it’s simply how character action controls essentially let you accelerate, turn on a dime, and jump several times your height with only a passing resemblance to conservation of momentum and physics as they apply in real life). I think it goes beautifully with the more grounded, realistic look FFXV has adopted compared to the more fantastic aesthetic of Versus XIII (in the gameplay segments, if not the FMV)
I personally found the demo to be a breath of fresh air for the franchise. I wouldn't want every mainline entry to be like this going forward (and honestly the gameplay 'works' just because it specifically hinges heavily on the plot device of Noctis being able to summon different weapons on the fly) just like I wouldn't want every Final Fantasy to be strictly turn-based like FFX.
I'm going to echo the sentiment that this is quite refreshing not just for Final Fantasy, but for action games in general. It's got this weird hybrid disposition halfway between the very responsive combat like Tales or KH and the slower, more deliberate animation-based western combat of Assassin's Creed or the Arkham games. I feel this, even in its barebones state, has successfully branched out into being its own thing, especially when the nuances of weapon swapping and managing MP come into play.
There's just a very deep skill component in the combat right now, once you understand all its subsystems and nuances. For example, the camera/lock-on could use some work to be more intuitive, but I've revised my opinion that it's more of poorly explained, rather than badly designed, and I can totally see how people who have been testing it from the get go could have allowed it to 'get to this point' since it's functional when you play the game a certain way.
In most JRPGs you fight enemies because you encounter them randomly, need drops, need XP, need to kill a certain number for missions, or whatever. It's something you eventually want to rush through. Conversely even in its barebones state In Episode Duscae I'm getting into combat just for the sake of combat, simply because I want to push myself harder and pull of a shit ton of cool clutches and feel like a badass. Looking back at PS4 auto-recorded footage, I'm always finding things I could have done better, whether it be whiffed attacks, better mana management, getting that one parry off, staggering a mob that could have been staggered, landing a Full Thrust, predicting choreographed attacks better, etc. The potential skill ceiling for this is very, very high, and we've barely even scratched the surface of the systems/customization/options in the final game's combat.
I'm at the point that I hope there are challenge modes just to capitalize on the combat system, like the combat challenges of Arkham City. That's how good it is. On one hand it's something that's more JRPG flavored than the typical western action games like Arkham or AC, like I said earlier. On the other, it's not like the Gold Saucer arena in FF7 where you're entering just for the prizes, and there's not much investment into the rounds of combat itself - you just want Cloud to win so you'll be done with it.
There are definitely things I think need fixing or optimizing (not talking about the technical aspects) but I’m going to leave that for direct feedback to Square Enix for now, or if someone specifically brings it up as a point of discussion. I’m excited to dive fully into the combat of the full game.
p.s. more combat tips focusing on a single specific encounter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1AIxNKIlAI
So here’s the video I said I’d get uploaded. I felt I needed this before I engaged in any further serious discussion/debate because I often found I needed to fall back on footage to back up what I was trying to convey, and this video lets me do that by linking directly to specific timestamps with the context that it's a full-runthrough and not cherrypicking. It’s not so much a ‘it’s fine learn2play’ statement as it is reinforcing my opinion in that I can see how a lot of the design decisions were very deliberately made. And by all means please don’t let me dissuade you from sending in your own feedback.
Some of this is copypasta of previous posts I’ve made, but I’ve consolidated and refined my ramblings into what I really wanted to say, in a more concise fashion (... hopefully)
Here’s the video description that pertains more to the video itself. My opinion and verdict follows after that.
And here are my thoughts:
It's kind of clear that a lot of the way the demo works is very, very specifically done to showcase different parts of what's going to be important to FFXV gameplay. Stuff like food immunity making the cave much easier to showcase the cooking system. Stuff like the summon being an overpowered set piece just to show off the summon system (you're delusional if you think you'll be able to cheese every boss this way in the full game)
Versus XIII was always going to be an action slanted JRPG and that's not going to change. The only thing that's really shifted is the focus being even more on Noctis than his companions, just because he's an overpowered wanker (largely due to plot reasons, mind you)
Regardless of Square Enix's long term plan for the Final Fantasy franchise in general, FFXV is locked into its course. That's why I think the way the demo was bundled with Type-0 was a good one. I think Square Enix realizes that at this point, there's so many different Final Fantasy games, each with its own rabid fanbases, who all want the next installment(s) to be exactly what they want, and it's simply too diverse a lot to cater to everyone. Hence bundling with Type-0 and collecting feedback only from the people who bought it is serves as a kind-of entry barrier, or a focus group if you will. It allows them to refine the experience based on feedback specifically from people who would find FFXV's premise interesting, e.g. in broad strokes:
- People who have been following development of Versus XIII for some time and have an interest in it in particular, and who understand the action combat slant was the intention to begin with.
- People who are invested into Type-0, which shares roots in ARPG systems, and has the same (current) director.
It's not just simply 'a ploy to sell more Type-0 copies'. Of course, there's still going to be some confusion, consternation and negative reception to the combat (and that is totally fine, opinions etc), but at least it's not going to be 80% people asking for turn-based combat without a clue as to the history of Versus XIII.
(It bears mentioning now that I have platinums on all KH1.5/2.5 games along with Critical runs with all optional bosses defeated, as well as close to 100% completion on the Arkham and Assassin’s Creed games, aside from multiplayer trophies)
Regarding comparisons to KH: There’s definitely a more grounded, realistic feel to the combat, and I personally find that it’s largely based on western influences. I think it’s more accurate to say that the animation work in this game is ‘fluid’, where character action games and KH feels more ‘gaseous’ (Not that I mean that in a bad way - it’s simply how character action controls essentially let you accelerate, turn on a dime, and jump several times your height with only a passing resemblance to conservation of momentum and physics as they apply in real life). I think it goes beautifully with the more grounded, realistic look FFXV has adopted compared to the more fantastic aesthetic of Versus XIII (in the gameplay segments, if not the FMV)
I personally found the demo to be a breath of fresh air for the franchise. I wouldn't want every mainline entry to be like this going forward (and honestly the gameplay 'works' just because it specifically hinges heavily on the plot device of Noctis being able to summon different weapons on the fly) just like I wouldn't want every Final Fantasy to be strictly turn-based like FFX.
I'm going to echo the sentiment that this is quite refreshing not just for Final Fantasy, but for action games in general. It's got this weird hybrid disposition halfway between the very responsive combat like Tales or KH and the slower, more deliberate animation-based western combat of Assassin's Creed or the Arkham games. I feel this, even in its barebones state, has successfully branched out into being its own thing, especially when the nuances of weapon swapping and managing MP come into play.
There's just a very deep skill component in the combat right now, once you understand all its subsystems and nuances. For example, the camera/lock-on could use some work to be more intuitive, but I've revised my opinion that it's more of poorly explained, rather than badly designed, and I can totally see how people who have been testing it from the get go could have allowed it to 'get to this point' since it's functional when you play the game a certain way.
In most JRPGs you fight enemies because you encounter them randomly, need drops, need XP, need to kill a certain number for missions, or whatever. It's something you eventually want to rush through. Conversely even in its barebones state In Episode Duscae I'm getting into combat just for the sake of combat, simply because I want to push myself harder and pull of a shit ton of cool clutches and feel like a badass. Looking back at PS4 auto-recorded footage, I'm always finding things I could have done better, whether it be whiffed attacks, better mana management, getting that one parry off, staggering a mob that could have been staggered, landing a Full Thrust, predicting choreographed attacks better, etc. The potential skill ceiling for this is very, very high, and we've barely even scratched the surface of the systems/customization/options in the final game's combat.
I'm at the point that I hope there are challenge modes just to capitalize on the combat system, like the combat challenges of Arkham City. That's how good it is. On one hand it's something that's more JRPG flavored than the typical western action games like Arkham or AC, like I said earlier. On the other, it's not like the Gold Saucer arena in FF7 where you're entering just for the prizes, and there's not much investment into the rounds of combat itself - you just want Cloud to win so you'll be done with it.
There are definitely things I think need fixing or optimizing (not talking about the technical aspects) but I’m going to leave that for direct feedback to Square Enix for now, or if someone specifically brings it up as a point of discussion. I’m excited to dive fully into the combat of the full game.
p.s. more combat tips focusing on a single specific encounter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1AIxNKIlAI
