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Fire Emblem Community Thread | Together We Ride
- Thread starter Chrom
- Start date
Did you complete Celica's part of the campaign prior to partaking in Alm's in Act IV?
1% crits happen every now and then, this will be our 1% crit!
Honestly, with companies like Arcsys and French Bread, the idea of too many sword users have even the slightest impact on moveset diversity would be laughable, so it wouldn't be strange to try and cover the series with many of the lords. Even with just the lords(which I think would be better to focus on given the limits of a new fighting game's roster), we would get good representation of the weapons and class types in the series as well as the games themselves.
But who knows what IS will be thinking if a FE fighting game ever actually happens.
Roy will end up being the surprise strongest character. Get ready for Roy: The Game.
Oh we have info of that already? Wasn't following that closely.
theprodigy
Member
Roy being good? ha nice joke
It will happen one day! He will have more going for him than just having the best design of a lord in the series!
I will be really surprised if Roy is still a bad unit whenever FE6 gets remade.
that's highly debatable, I don't think his design is that stellar although it's still decent.
I see Roy being very good if/when FE6 gets remade.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I would hope not! Roy being terrible is an important part of the design of the game!
I'm not saying it isn't debatable, haha. Though I do personally think his design is the best and I do think it is a part of why he manages to still be so popular. His wild red hair helps him to stand out among the other lords and it contrasts nicely with the colors in his outfit, and even the Binding Blade has a fantastic design.
I kind of hope that he won't be really amazing in a FE6 remake though. I feel that a lord being unstoppable is kind of boring, that should be saved for characters that aren't required to be in every map imo.
NeonZ
Member
Shadow Dragon and New Mystery weren't faithful mechanics-wise though. IS' remakes just follow no set pattern at this point regarding what kind of feature they add or remove compared to the original games.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I'm a fairly longtime Fire Emblem fan and I'm picking up Fates - Conquest again and its just...I don't think I like the design of the Awakening/Fates games. There are a lot of things I do like but Chapter 17 of Conquest has like every single thing I dislike about Fates in it.
-Dumb gimmick level
-Scores of Ninjas who fuck up your plans by lowering stats and being way too strong and do percentage damage even if you can block them
-Uncrontrollable AI ally who rampages around like an idiot
-Reinforcements that only spawn past an environment trigger behind you
-Dragon veins are either useless or COMPLETELY essential to beating the level
-Skills are stupid. Well some of them are fine but stuff like Vantage, Counter and Lunge in particular are just...why?
-So many weapon types. The weapon triangle might as well be useless now because theres 20 variations on every type of weapon and that isn't even counting shurikens and knives. There are bows that can attack from 1 space away and ranged swords. The boss of this level in particular is some bullshit, as he will whip out a shuriken that does magic damage that will kill almost everyone (even Xander) instantly.
-Everything and everyone is ranged.
Is it just me? Am I salty? I beat Hector Hard Mode and Path of Radiance on Hard and they were very difficult but Fates is just death by a thousand cuts. People say Conquest has really great level design but I don't know if I'd agree...there aren't really any levels that stand out to me so far that weren't done better before.
-Dumb gimmick level
-Scores of Ninjas who fuck up your plans by lowering stats and being way too strong and do percentage damage even if you can block them
-Uncrontrollable AI ally who rampages around like an idiot
-Reinforcements that only spawn past an environment trigger behind you
-Dragon veins are either useless or COMPLETELY essential to beating the level
-Skills are stupid. Well some of them are fine but stuff like Vantage, Counter and Lunge in particular are just...why?
-So many weapon types. The weapon triangle might as well be useless now because theres 20 variations on every type of weapon and that isn't even counting shurikens and knives. There are bows that can attack from 1 space away and ranged swords. The boss of this level in particular is some bullshit, as he will whip out a shuriken that does magic damage that will kill almost everyone (even Xander) instantly.
-Everything and everyone is ranged.
Is it just me? Am I salty? I beat Hector Hard Mode and Path of Radiance on Hard and they were very difficult but Fates is just death by a thousand cuts. People say Conquest has really great level design but I don't know if I'd agree...there aren't really any levels that stand out to me so far that weren't done better before.
Which people? Fates fan reception was mixed at best. Veterans praise Conquest's gameplay but that's about it, everywhere I go the consensus seems to be it was a disappointing entry.
theprodigy
Member
That's because FE7 is easy and FE9 is even easier while Conquest is actually hard.
It had its moments, but some of the gimmicks grated on me after awhile. I don't agree with you on skills, reinforcements, or weapon triangles, and I'm torn on ninjas.
I found conquest to be exhausting. There's a lot of systems going on and the maps, while theoretically well designed, are very, very long.
Fates does have a bit of a problem with some map gimmicks being worthless. But even with that it still has some of the best gameplay in the series on the Conquest side.
I love what the ninjas bring to the series with their hidden weapons, hell I love what they did with weapons in general. Enemies being able to lower our stats makes it harder to just over rely on the most powerful units, stronger weapons having penalties makes for situations we don't always want weapons with higher might or range. Having to plan around more complicated situations is a good thing for a SRPG as far as I'm concerned.
Conquest is the only game I've played in the series where player phase reinforcements are scary instead of free exp. Showing up when we pass a certain point instead of on a specific turn number means the game can balance them to create difficult pincer attacks for us to work through, and the fact that their stats/skills/weapons are actually scary is a bonus too.
I feel they finally got skills mostly right in Fates as well. A lot more passive skills, a lot of them adding pretty creative new ways to play. To me, this is a big step up from most of the useful skills being a chance to trigger more damage. The only thing I would have wanted would be to have skill scrolls of many class skills so we could be a bit more creative with unit builds.
The weapon triangle has always been useless. Small bonuses or penalties, but are you ever going to think "Hector shouldn't attack this enemy because it has a sword"? Good units never cared about the triangle. If anything Fates made it matter a little more, since weapons that reverse it gain some nice bonuses.
And there is not a better defense map in the series than Conquest 10. I can't think of many where I have to be defensive, and I can't think of any that made it so difficult to be successful at it.
But I'm the kind of person that decided to jump into Conquest on Lunatic. I wanted a hard game, and was given one that also forced me to build strategies in ways I never had to before in the series, because the game was designed to counter the effectiveness of the units that would typically steamroll maps in the series. It feels like an evolution to the series' gameplay, it still feels like FE, but with ideas refined in order to make a more solid strategy game. There's still room for improvement, the game felt experimental at times, but it makes me very hopeful for the gameplay of the series going forward, and I can't wait to see what IS learned from it in FE Switch.
The very last map on Conquest is stupid though.
theprodigy
Member
Also, Counter in this game is perfectly fine, unlike Awakening enemies can't kamikaze onto you.
And weapon triangle matters more in Fates than in most games, the only games where it matters more are the DS games.
And weapon triangle matters more in Fates than in most games, the only games where it matters more are the DS games.
Agreed on all accounts, except the last map bit. I found it enjoyable, but I also played on Hard which achieved a really nice balance between forcing you to advance as quickly as possible while still being manageable without any rescue/pass shenanigans unlike Lunatic. Conquest is an exhausting game, but not in a bad way imo. I felt drained by the end of each chapter, but those maps are ingrained in my mind and I can recall pretty much every single one of them by their chapter numbers, something I can't do with any other FE I've played. The only gimmick I found too over the top was chapter 20, no idea what they were thinking with that one (funnily enough, I did manage to just barely beat it on my first try by taking advantage of the gimmick to get to the boss faster but I can't say I would be enthused to revisit it on future playthroughs). 19 is annoying too but you can sort of trivialize it with the Beast Killer.
Fates does have an overabundance of 1-2 range options though and I don't appreciate the fact that they dish it out like candy. The weapon variety, while good, also doesn't quite reach its full potential because of royal weapons being so omnipresent. I hope they dial both those things back on FE Switch.
I guess to be fair to the last map, I was messing around throughout the game, so I didn't have the most optimal team or resources once I reached it. But up until that map the game's mechanics were flexible enough for me to get away it, so it felt like an odd shift in the kind of difficulty, it was kind of disappointing after everything else. A large part of that though is still on me for going into Lunatic blind though, haha.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I hated the final map of Conquest because you couldn't save before starting it so resetting took forever
theprodigy
Member
Implying chapter 27 takes more than 5 minutes at most pls
I actually liked the Conquest Final map, at least much more than the other two. Birthright was Bullshit, you either 1 turned it or were pretty much screwed, and Revelations just took ages and was actually scary. Because you couldn't save in these 2 parters I was actually fine with loosing units here, because the part before the finale was most of the time pretty long (ESPECIALLY Birthright).
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
it was still a pain to get through that and to fast forward through all the cutscenes and stuff!
It's a bit of both, honestly. You have a unit that practically solo's the map (Hand Axe Camilla), and even if you screw up, a good Hand Axe user should get you through it. It's an annoying map, but also good in the sense that it forces you to adapt, instead of just mindlessly powering through.
And I can assure you, Conquest is one of the few FE games with great map design (with the others being FE5/FE6/FE10/FE12). Most other games has simplistic map designs with a focus on rout. You just need to go hard when it comes to preparation. Abuse tonics, forges, mess hall bonuses, prioritize on your best units, etc.
NeonZ
Member
I think Conquest had great level design, but it definitely wasn't 'classic' FE level design. The importance of enemy skills, weapon variables and map specific gimmicks make it a fairly different experience from previous games. I actually liked that though.
For a while, it felt like IS had settled on a core gameplay formula and feared going anywhere with it. The skill system from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, that mainly existed to boost your own units, without changing much the enemy's abilities, showed that pretty clearly to me. Then we had Awakening that shook things up but without really putting any thought in what they were doing. Conquest feels much more meticulously planned out, even if it still had some oddities.
If there is anything Radiant Dawn does not boast, it's good map design. I'll grant that there's more variety to the objectives that surround them (there's only a handful of route maps), however most are inoffensive at best (Elincia's Gambit), downright gimmicky (99% of the "Arrive" maps) or tedious (Geoffrey's Charge) at worst, not that the erratic unit availability helps (Tormod makes an appearance early on as a 2nd tier character and doesn't pop up until nearly the end of the game when you've likely gotten yourself several 3rd tier magic characters with far better stats) make them any less of a test of patience. It also has, bar none, the worst Fog of War maps in the series and an excessive amount at that, with maps that are either frustrating due to their design (Micaiah and the Black Knight being the only two units sounds interesting until you realize that Micaiah's glass canon stats and mediocre growths can lead her to easily being doubled and killed in a single turn, even if you pump her up with all your extra experience and the dracoshield you got early on) or conflict with the story (Lucia and co. said there was only one way in and out, hence the objective in the map being to escape, yet we clearly see enemy soldiers spawn from the side where Lucia and co. were trying to escape from). Radiant Dawn is a prime example of variety not being equivalent to quality.
Also: That final boss can burn with how tedious it ends up being, as can the rest of the final chapter. They give you more troops than any other Fire Emblem game, yet they limit you picking a meager 10 troops of all the ones you've raised aside from Ike, Micaiah and a few other mandatory characters.
I just wanted to make sure that was clear.
Fraudulent?
theprodigy
Member
yes yes we get it, you hate Radiant Dawn
but unfortunately for you, people like dondon tend to agree that, at least for the first half (like up to 3-4), RD has good map design
don't even get me started on FE7's fraudulent map design
It's another Falchion - Naga has a lot of fangs.
Gaiden was made before Falchion becoming Marth exclusive was a big deal.
SliceSabre
Banned
7/10: Needs more Mozu.
Aveyn Knight
Member
Because Falchion is an important name. All of Naga's fangs are precious and are thus named Falchion.
The tablets in Mila and Duma's Ordeals kind of suggest this.
Uh, we had the Tyrfing I guess? But that (probably) wasn't one of Naga's fangs.
Anyway, in the Japanese version, it was a slightly bigger deal since the subtitle of the game was "Another Hero-King", so Alm was basically another Marth.
Well aside from the fact that a falchion is type of sword, it's best to think of it like the Fire Emblem itself changing between games i.e. the medallion in the Tellius games, Grado's Sacred Stone in the Sacred Stones, etc. It was never set in stone that the Falchion most people think of in regards to the series was the only one of its kind since they didn't have over a dozen of games with their own legendary weapons and characteristics that differentiated themselves from that one. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they planned on having a Falchion in every game as a means of connecting it to the first game given the original was carved from a fang of Naga but later abandoned that idea in favor of each game getting its own Fire Emblem.
No idea why it looks so different in Awakening, mind.
Aveyn Knight
Member
In Cipher you don't have to choose XD
Well, Fire Emblem's legacy has always been about swords and dragons, but the sword doesn't have to be the Falchion.
Awakening Falchion looking different is due to handwavy stuff. Basically the hilt got repaired by man (learned via supports), while the blade itself can magically self-repair and presumably change form (learned via the artbook).