BlastProcessing
Member
WHY DOES NO ONE READ THE OP
Don't just read the title, read the actual interview.
I guess Microsoft has done a great job in the last 10 months training everyone that 100% of what comes out of their mouths is bullshit.
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Forza 5 wouldn't have been 1080p, 60fps without access to Xbox One's cloud
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
WHY DOES NO ONE READ THE OP
Don't just read the title, read the actual interview.
I guess Microsoft has done a great job in the last 10 months training everyone that 100% of what comes out of their mouths is bullshit.
NullPointer
Member
AI profiling and processing takes place in the cloud. Whenever you boot the game up you get updated profiles. These profiles are cached. So if you don't connect online again you still have the most recent profiles. Even if you never go online (after the initial day one patch) you'll still have a set of AI profiles to use.
But if and when you do connect online, you send telemetry data of your driving style to the cloud, and you get continuously updated profiles for the AI drivers in your game.
As far as them making the argument that it is this cloud processing that allowed them to free up the resources necessary to make the game 1080p at 60fps, well, that seems like a stretch, to put it nicely.
If you are trying to say that it is BS that they have not added that stuff yet I can understand you and I agree with that. They have long had the power to do day/night cycles but for some reason have not. I am just saying that nowhere in the article is Greenawalt quoted as saying the cloud gave them the ability to have 1080p. People can think negatively of Greenawalt but their opinion should be based in fact. Hate him if you must for not having day/night cycles in forza 5, but he never makes the claim that the cloud allowed forza 5 to be 1080p60 (at least in this article).
Netherscourge
Banned
Yes.
Actually, it sounds like there is no legit A.I. botting offline. Or if there is, it's dumber since it's not being calculated by any CPUs. Probably just scripted without the cloud support.
If you want "smart" A.I. bots to race against, you need to be online so the cloud CPU can take over the A.I. bots.
But so far as 1080p/60fps is concerned, it's always in that state, whether online or offline.
The article is really more about how they use the cloud CPUs for the A.I. bots, not for the resolution//frame rate.
Yeah i was about to say that. They may be willing to push this cloud thing but.. i'm not sure it's a nice thing, right now, to tell us one of the only 1080p of the console is a miracle...
Doing what?
BlastProcessing
Member
This isn't accurate. He is simply saying that Azure allowed the Drivatars to be implemented so quickly, that they could spend more time on performance. Thats it. There is no difference between online and offline performance at all.
Yeah, people are so busy reacting to the made up bullshit that they are missing the more nuanced bullshit.
Red Chocobo
Banned
But even after reading it, it isn't 100% clear.
The way it's written can be interpreted in several different ways.
Either way. He needs to stop talking to the press.
NullPointer
Member
None of this stuff happens in real time. Well maybe you send telemetry after reach race, if you're connected.
But the AI processing that uses the telemetry data of all the game's players is processed online, on cloud servers. The results of these calculations are AI driving profiles, used as the AI of the other drivers when you play, online or offline.
Being online just means you're feeding new information into the system and get updated data when you boot up the game. It means that these AI profiles continue to learn and adapt over time.
The AI is not being controlled by these cloud servers. All of that is running locally on your console, connected or not.
But the AI processing that uses the telemetry data of all the game's players is processed online, on cloud servers. The results of these calculations are AI driving profiles, used as the AI of the other drivers when you play, online or offline.
Being online just means you're feeding new information into the system and get updated data when you boot up the game. It means that these AI profiles continue to learn and adapt over time.
The AI is not being controlled by these cloud servers. All of that is running locally on your console, connected or not.
Thank you for actually reading the article. People just want to latch on to anything that makes MS look bad without even taking the time to inform themselves about what is actually going on.
What I got from reading this is that because they did not have to use manpower on their online services they could get on with optimizing the engine for physics, AI, graphics etc...
And reading between the lines; what was really being said is that because managing the small pool of ESRAM is so difficult they needed the extra manpower/time to optimize the engine in time for launch.
And reading between the lines; what was really being said is that because managing the small pool of ESRAM is so difficult they needed the extra manpower/time to optimize the engine in time for launch.
Pimpbaa
Member
You know what is really problematic? People not reading the OP.
The meaning is in the subheading on the actual article - time that would have been spent on online was spent on shinies and fizzicks.
Which makes sense - being able to completely leave developing a multiplayer solution from scratch and just plugging in would indeed save resources, but it does sound like he's saying 'without x, y wouldn't have been possible at all' rather than 'because of x, y was possible.'
Which makes sense - being able to completely leave developing a multiplayer solution from scratch and just plugging in would indeed save resources, but it does sound like he's saying 'without x, y wouldn't have been possible at all' rather than 'because of x, y was possible.'
Netherscourge
Banned
NOT really. All the cloud CPU does is generate new scripts for the A.I. bots. It can do that automatically, even when you're not online and then next time you go online, it just downloads the new script to your XB1.
I highly doubt it's actively creating a A.I. script WHILE the race is going on and streaming it in real time during the race. That would demand a 100% uptime with your ISP connection/XBL servers during your gaming sessions, which can not be 100% guaranteed in any situation.
More than likely, the A.I bot racing script is pre-generated between races and then downloaded and "installed" before the races begin.
jim-jam bongs
Member
The raging Xboners being stroked here are worse than the people not reading imo
ab.aeterno
Member
I'm surprised the first page isn't a ghost town of grey names from the sheer number of paper who can't even be bothered to read the quoted, relevant portion of the article in the OP. Fucking Christ, how hard is that? I'm genuinely surprised it's tolerated to that degree.
In glad I'm not the only one who realized what he was saying. And as a programmer, he's right -- not having to spend a lot of time and manpower on developing a complex back end probably gave them the ability to better optimize the game to hit their target resolution and frame rate.
phosphor112
Banned
What a load of bullshit.
As people have said. What if you aren't connected, and secondly, it's drivatars are all processed passively in between races, not DURING races, so it's not alleviating any sort of processing.
Lying bullshiters.
As people have said. What if you aren't connected, and secondly, it's drivatars are all processed passively in between races, not DURING races, so it's not alleviating any sort of processing.
Lying bullshiters.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
The ultimate irony of this whole thing is the article is basically saying it is beneficial, tech-wise, to be a second-party developer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDbHwz6JGzo
NullPointer
Member
Its people not understanding this kind of asynchronous processing.
As far as I know the only points where the cloud comes into play within the game is when you boot up the game (to pull down revised AI profile data from the cloud servers), and after reach race (to upload new telemetry data to the cloud for processing). Thats it.
All the processing takes place elsewhere, and makes AI representations of each player's driving styles. These AI representations are updated as new telemetry feeds into the system, and these profiles get loaded by the game when it starts, if its connected. Otherwise it uses the last profiles it had stored.
coughlanio
Member
Put this in The Cloud and we'll be ready for 4K baby!
RAM Doubler was an actual functional thing though, but it didn't exactly double your RAM.
No, these are completely different because "the power of cell" is actually real, as evidenced by the superior sony first party games and, more recently, major third party games perform better on the PS3. MS's notion of cloud, however, is just a pile of misleading horseshit; although in this article, I actually got what he's trying to say.
He never said it was.
yellow submarine
Member
MSFT to GAF: I've got your cloud computing power right here!! *grabs crotch*
This is what console war stuff does to people.
My reaction to this article, as a reasonable consumer, who incidentally is buying a PS4 on launch and with no plans to buy an xbone:
Wow, that's neat. It's cool to see the benefits some developers can get by having these servers available to them. Although the PS4 probably would have just been a better choice from the get go.
Instead, we get none of that discussion. We get consumers who are more interested in having a bandwagon exaggerated reaction about how awful MS is. Then when people point out that they're not actually reading what has been said, fearful and defensive people start lashing out about how they MUST be PR shills.
Jesus. What a fucking cesspool this thread is.
NullPointer
Member
Haha. Exactly
GrizzleBoy
Banned
I can see why you'd think that.
Facundo_Lopez
Neo Member
You forgot PEACE.
kriskrosbbk
Member
240p offline resolution confirmed
phosphor112
Banned
So... how does borrowing servers allow them to hit 1080@60?
Are they saying they'd need more time to hit that if they had to get their own servers? I mean... really? Either way, they're reaching...
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
People in this thread arent reading the OP. I accept that.
You are being delusional.
Local cloud processing? Thats your hard drive and console.
Think goddamit.
Anyway, if the ease of Microsofts cloud platform saved them some time and development resources no body can dispute that.
But this dressing it up in the "POWAH OF THE CLOWD" nonsense is extremely disgenenious.
We need a better title. The title and the first few lines of the article are what set the tone, and it strongly gives the impression that they're using the cloud for GPU and physics acceleration. It isn't obvious that "resources" is referring to developer time at first. We're all usually pretty good about reading OPs here but this one is way too easy to misread. It's not just "read the OP", it's "read the OP with your fine print glasses on". At least include the subtitle of the article as the first line of the OP text - that wasn't included here and it's important.
I have a followup question:
Are Drivatar AI profiles something that's calculated in the cloud, downloaded and then used in the game afterward?
Does the AI behaviour change when the connection is lost? Which specific functions are being offloaded here? I have a feeling it's the analysis of race behavior and the compiling of an AI behaviour profile, rather than the server providing AI instructions on the fly.
They have the Drivatar article here but it doesn't cover this point - http://www.oxm.co.uk/58256/features...tails-how-turn-10-handles-xbox-live-griefers/
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Did you read the article?
Would you also rage at the manager in the cinema because you missed the end of the film, because you walked out before the film finished to go rage at the manager?
The serene glow of the network programmers... as they began tapping into the power of the all-knowing clouds watching over them... turbo boosted them all to a higher plane of productivity.
Everything is the same as when you play online.
Pretty much. He suggested that to develop something similar to Azure's computational power and scalability capabilities would not have been possible for Forza 5. It's reasonable to assume he meant as a launch title.
It's a very poorly worded title, but the first sentence is quite clear that they saved time from one thing to spend on another.
I think so. The actual articles that I've seen, like this one, don't seem to make any blatantly false claims if you read them carefully. But they still contribute to an overall idea of some hidden power that will be unlocked. Those who are not tech savvy can definitely be confused
I have a friend who literally thinks there is a good chance that all the XBO games (CoD, BF4, DR3, etc) will actually end up running 1080p60fps "once the servers go online and all that cloud technology goes into effect". So mission accomplished.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
Majmun
Member
You should get your head out of the clouds and realize that this is nothing but bullcrap pr.
Why don't other MS first party games display @ 1080p? Is the cloud selective? They have just ONE title displaying @ 1080p, just ONE, and they immediately associate it with the power of the cloud.
I'd say MS should be ridiculed for their Cloud bullshit. As Sony was ridiculed back then with THE CELL. Remeber that?
Netherscourge
Banned
If you look at what they are saying from another angle, they're saying the XB1 didn't have enough power to run variable/adaptive AI racing bots (driveatars?) without compromising the resolution or framerate...
Think about that for a second...
They have a 8-core CPU with 8GB of RAM in that console, and they couldn't figure out how to add smart AI bots without messing up the resolution and framerate?
That doesn't say much for the XB1's hardware on it's own...
Think about that for a second...
They have a 8-core CPU with 8GB of RAM in that console, and they couldn't figure out how to add smart AI bots without messing up the resolution and framerate?
That doesn't say much for the XB1's hardware on it's own...
cookie-monster
Member
this is just pure, patronising BS. They are utterly reprehensible.
TrojanBlade
Member
Oh you thought I was serious lol
Uhh, no. They didn't have to spend time making one thing (online infrastructure) so they got more time making something else (graphics engine.) It also happens when licensing third party engines and middleware: less time and resources spent on those parts of the game, more spent on other parts like gameplay or graphics themselves rather than the graphics engine or the physics.
I doubt it does even that much. Probably creates data estimating how you drive along with your choice in cars and ghost track data, uploads to the servers to download that to other consoles, amd runs the AI locally while updating from the server between races when connected.
phosphor112
Banned
You're the one falling for the PR bullshit. Nothing in that article indicates the cloud allowing them to hit 1080p @ 60 yet they are saying it let them hit that.
In actuality the lack of need in developing their own servers they can dictate more time to their game... but all that is, is an issue of time and dev team sizes. That's all.