I have the same TV too and the HDR is amazing but the input lag is a abomination... 90 ms , 0 accuracy in driving with this input lag...
Is that true that the demo doesn't have HDR mode but ony for the full game?
It's perfectly fine (plus you can always adjust the brightness to your preference). I play at night as well and haven't had any issues at all.I play a lot in a low light environment and it seems like HDR would kill my eyes.
HDR said:SDR said:
HDR said:SDR said:
HDR said:SDR said:
So I've tweaked a few settings and I think that I got it working. HDR in Horizon doesn't look that great to me after having watched other HDR content. Only at night does it look good imo. During the day, in the city, jungle, desert, it looks off.
Here are a few shitty off screen pics.
I just took these on the XB1 version, I did a full console reboot between switching from HDR to SDR:Are your console screenshots still 'correct' in HDR mode?
HDR said:SDR said:
HDR said:SDR said:
I just took these on the XB1 version, I did a full console reboot between switching from HDR to SDR:
Did you mean this?
Huh?Games are still limited to 8bit colour, even in HDR mode.
I'm only looking on my phone but it looks like the blacks are crushing a little there. That shouldn't be happening.So I've tweaked a few settings and I think that I got it working. HDR in Horizon doesn't look that great to me after having watched other HDR content and directly swapping both HDR and SDR with aid of the PC version. Only at night does it look good imo. During the day, in the city, jungle, desert, it looks off.
Here are a few shitty off screen pics.
No problem, happy to help. Maybe it's also that I expected more from the HDR mode in FH3 that it tarnishes my view on it a bit.Yup. They look correct in both versions, which isn't what I'd expect. Thanks for posting.
Albert Penello mentioned in an interview with Eurogamer/Digital Foundry that games aren't yet allowed to take advantage of the wider colour gamut that other sources can use such as UHD-BD (ie 10bit colour).Huh?
The shots are taken with a Lumia 950. I don't have a higher quality camera on hand.I'm only looking on my phone but it looks like the blacks are crushing a little there. That shouldn't be happening.
Have you tried adjusting the brightness and HDR brightness in Settings -> Video? The default settings result in a very dull picture.Could someone help me out. I recently got a 4 Samsung hdr tv and the hdr in forza looks really washed out. And the colors are really muted too
I just took these on the XB1 version, I did a full console reboot between switching from HDR to SDR:
Did you mean this?
No problem, happy to help. Maybe it's also that I expected more from the HDR mode in FH3 that it tarnishes my view on it a bit.
Albert Penello mentioned in an interview with Eurogamer/Digital Foundry that games aren't yet allowed to take advantage of the wider colour gamut that other sources can use such as UHD-BD (ie 10bit colour).
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The shots are taken with a Lumia 950. I don't have a higher quality camera on hand.
Have you tried adjusting the brightness and HDR brightness in Settings -> Video? The default settings result in a very dull picture.
Okay, I've finally had some quality time with the game so I'm able to post my impressions now.
First off, the game is gorgeous with or without HDR. I wasn't that big a fan of FH2's location, so moving the festival to an area that supports more arcade-y landscapes (lush forests, beaches, caves, water, cities, etc.) is an upgrade all on its own.
Having said that, there is an incredibly noticeable difference between HDR and SDR. There is no point to play this game in SDR when I can use HDR. It's honestly a little confusing to read some impressions saying otherwise. Now, I don't know if it's because of personal preferences, everybody having different eyes, varying TV models out there, or a calibration/setup thing or what, but, to me, the difference is absolutely night and day.
So, what's different? Color and contrast. If you've tested out HDR demo videos, you already know. Just apply that concept to Forza Horizon 3. But since this is an impressions thread, I'll go into more detail!
I'd probably use the word "filmic" to describe FH3 in SDR, while the game in HDR mode appears "truer-to-life." It's difficult to explain without experiencing it for yourself, but you'll immediately understand after seeing how things just...glow. You can literally feel your eyes reacting to different lighting situations as if you really were there in person. When people say that SDR or their phones or computer monitors look dim after playing something in HDR for a while, it's true--your pupils get adjusted to this different kind of image.
More specifically, things like sparks, fireworks, sunlight, reflections, car lights, storefronts, sand, etc. all get improved by HDR. You will notice stuff jumping out at you that you've never really paid attention to before.
-Those white festival tarps everywhere? You'll see a difference in how they bounce sunlight off their canopies.
-When you're indoors, you'll look at a fluorescent light in the ceiling and be like "huh, that actually kinda looks like it does in real life." In SDR, you barely even notice it's there.
-You will see extra colors popping just beneath the surface of water or in the undercoats of metallic car paint. I thought this was just the game's engine, but, nope. It's much less apparent in SDR.
-You'll notice how the devs always seem to have you drive through water in races juuust as you round a corner with the sun setting, and you will thank them. It looks cool in SDR; it looks impressive in HDR. The effect is great.
-Lighting (especially the sky) looks much more natural. Everything does. It's weird! You'd think all the colors would seem extra saturated and fake, but that's not the case at all.
-Different weather conditions are breathtaking, too. A cloudy sky right before it's about to rain is eerily convincing. I used to live in a tropical country, and the way things suddenly darken before a downpour is hilariously accurate.
-I keep looking at my brake lights, like my brain is confused. This is such a silly thing, but HDR makes me suddenly care about stuff like that.
-Cameras going off in the distance look like actual cameras going off in the distance. I find that I subconsciously brace myself for speed traps. Can you imagine something like lightning strikes with HDR?
-Car reflections. Just play a race at night in one of the city areas next to a bunch of neon lights, and you will probably crash by getting distracted at everything. And then you'll see sparks from your crash and get even more distracted.
In short, I'm a happy camper. I genuinely don't feel like it's a marketing gimmick. I'm upset that HDR in general seems like a clusterfuck right now, but I can't wait for more games to support the tech. Flipping back to SDR makes me sad.
Technical disclaimer: My display is a Samsung KS8000 (American). I think it's a great gaming TV considering its price and performance. I firmly believe people would be really happy with it, but its HDR obviously isn't quite the same with edge-lit local dimming as what you'd find in a much more expensive OLED. For example, when FH3 puts those cinematic black bars on your screen for cutscenes, you will probably notice the bloom pillars in lower-light situations. Some people use Dynamic Contrast to combat this (especially with HDR film content), but I prefer to just leave it set to off. When you have a fullscreen image, it's not an issue at all, and it's practically nonexistent playing in the daytime or with ambient light. Because I primarily use my TV for games, I think it's a perfectly acceptable tradeoff. Input lag is also something that I'm incredibly sensitive to, so there really isn't any other TV on the market right now that I would've been happier with.
Some notes for people who have the same TV and may be curious about my settings:
-In FH3, the game's brightness is set to 50, and I have the HDR brightness set at like 19-20 ticks. You could technically crank HDR brightness to full blast, but you'll end up losing detail in stuff like sunlight because it literally becomes a supernova. You might prefer that, though, so do whatever makes you happy.
-On the TV itself with HDR enabled, I think everything is default (with the exception of sharpness turned down to 0), but the backlight is manually set to 20* with a Native color space.
Picture Mode: Game
Backlight: 20
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 100
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint (G/R): G50/R50
Smart LED: High
HDMI UHD Color: (set to "On" for the input)
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Color Tone: Warm2
White Balance: (default settings)
Color Space: Native
*For some reason, the KS8000 doesn't remember HDR backlight settings when the Xbox switches into HDR mode for FH3. It switches it just fine for Netflix and a USB drive with HDR content, but, bizarrely, not with the Xbox. So, just know that you will have to go into your Picture Settings to crank up the backlight to 20 for HDR content on the Xbox One S. Maybe a firmware update will address this in the future. I usually have my backlight on 4 for SDR content.
The Xbox can also be a little fussy if you're doing A/B checks between SDR and HDR content. You might need to restart your console if you are messing with the HDR toggle in system settings. Maybe this was just a one-off thing I experienced when I was doing comparisons.
Unrelated to HDR, but my general Xbox video output settings are "24 bits per pixel" (Color depth) and "Standard" (Color space). The HDMI Black Level on my TV is set to "Low." I know a lot of people are confused by this nonsense, so hopefully someone out there will find it useful.
I tried settings at 8, 10, and 12 on the Xbox and couldn't really see a difference in HDR mode, so I just left it back at default.HDR10 should require a 10-bit panel so that's weird you are running in 8-bit mode.
Going by this thread, HDR isn't quite the revolution that was being hyped up to fuck on GAF.
Digital Foundry: Are you using the wider colour gamut (DCI P3) for HDR-enabled titles?
Albert Penello: Not currently. We are not supporting WCG for games in Xbox One S. We are supporting the wider Bt.2020 color gamut in Xbox One S for media, however.
Have you tried adjusting the brightness and HDR brightness in Settings -> Video? The default settings result in a very dull picture.
rec 2020 is far superior to dci pii though. HDR without wcg is pointless. I do not unterstand why, since hdr10 requires the bt2020. this means that the x1 does not support true hdr10. wowThey are using WCG but only in the rec 2020 spectrum not the DCI PIII most commonly found in projectors
However this seems to be for media only. So, yes there is NO WCG in games......which is a huge miss. I mean......damn
rec 2020 is far superior to dci pii though. HDR without wcg is pointless. I do not unterstand why, since hdr10 requires the bt2020. this means that the x1 does not support true hdr10. wow
The console should always send a 10-bit signal irrespective of what you have set in the Video Options when using HDR. If anyone sees any disparity between what they see in HDR mode when different bit depths are set, let me know.
There seems to be some confusion around the relationship between WCG, HDR and bit depth. A wider colour gamut (e.g. Rec2020) allows for a greater ranger of colours to be represented that are not necessarily any brighter than you're used to in the past. Whereas Rec709 can display around 35% of all the colours the human eye can see, Rec2020 pushes this up to around 75%.
HDR could, in theory, be used in conjunction with any colour gamut. It's this that allows for "darker darks and brighter whites", not an expanded range of colours (that comes from using a wider colour gamut). In practice however, when HDR is sent to a UHD TV it'll be in the Rec2020 colour space. This is why your TV must support Rec2020 and HDR in order for HDR to function.
Bit depth is something that applies to both SDR and HDR signals. 8 bit and 10 bit can both be used in SDR, giving 256 or 1024 shades of each primary colour respectively for either 16.7M or 1 07B colours in total. If you have a 10 bit screen and a game is presenting a 10 bit image for presentation then outputting at 10-bit can reduce banding in SDR titles. HDR is something that requires at least a 10-bit signal. Whereas 'white' in SDR was standardised at 100 nits, the brightest value in HDR10 is 10,000 nits. Without a 10bit signal you'd have significantly reduced precision in many areas of the image relative to 8-bit SDR and this would lead to more banding. This is where the '10' in "HDR10" comes from. No TV can yet output 10,000 nits however, with the brightest sets currently reaching around 1500 nits.
Whether your TV is an 8-bit or a 10-bit panel or not matters very little, so long as it supports receiving a 10-bit signal. 8-bit panels that support HDR will either dither nearby colours together to approximate the missing colours or it'll flash those same colours to achieve the same effect.
It's not true to say that there's no point in doing HDR without exploiting the wider colour gamut available on UHD TVs. HDR allows a film/game to send deeper blacks while also being able to display whites many times brighter than before, allowing for a more natural looking image. Supporting a wider color gamut gives you colours you've never seen before on a TV, but if a film or game doesn't exploit the wider colour gamut of Rec2020 that doesn't invalidate the support or effect of HDR.
All HDR output from the Xbox One S is in the Rec2020 colour space and outputs using a 10-bit "HDR10" signal.
Nice shots, I got similar results with my UN65HU8700+SEK3500.
How did you replicate most scenes almost exactly between on and off? I just drove to the same locations every time, can you save replays or something?
Um...why is that I can see the difference on my phone? The HDR shots show way more detail in highlights without blowing out
New owner of à UE55KS7000 (european equivalent of UN55KS8000) and I have also the same problem with washed out colors in HDR mode on Forza Horizon 3.
In order to have picture I switches game mode to standard mode, put the backlight to 20, set the Dynamic contrast to High and I have a picture very similar to the One without HDR. Any Idea ?
https://twitter.com/XboxQwik/status/783467878821433344
Full update details:
(NON PREVIEW)
OS version: 10.0.14393.1065 (rs1_xbox_rel_1608 160927-1900) fre Release date
10/04/2016
Performance and General Improvements
HDR
Resolved an issue which could cause some HDR content to appear too bright or faded on certain TVs when using an Xbox One S console.
Game DVR
Resolved an issue affecting video and screenshot brightness when recorded while the TV is in HDR mode.
Miscellaneous
General stability and performance improvements.
Is this coming to preview members too?Borrowing this from the Xbox One S official thread; those of you who are still having issues with HDR looking washed out might want to give it a second try after updating.
Not sure. :\Is this coming to preview members too?
Not sure. :\
Thanks for confirming! So is this the same as the screenshot fix or is this different?Insider members have this fix already.
Thanks for confirming! So is this the same as the screenshot fix or is this different?
Different. The first one relates to the black level not being correct on some TVs, as noted by people seeing cinematic black bars in HDR movies not being absolutely black. The second fix is the screenshot/GameDVR "washed out" fix.
Quoting this. I finally took time to calibrate my lg c6 all day as I feel.The same is true for 2016 LG OLED and some HDR10 UHDs blurays, though I've also read "Dynamic Contrast" doesn't mean the same thing when in HDR mode as it does with SDR..but also would like more clarity from the TV manufacturer on this. I've seen a youtube video with a professional calibration tool developer state there's a big mismatch with HDR10, TV tonemappers and UHD Bluray mastering metadata where TV tonemappers are wrong so they're oversteering in the mastering/metedata to compensate but in the process breaking things further.
Add me to the list of people that wish Dolby Vision was the only HDR standard.
Sorry to bump this old thread but I believe I found a fix for the Samsung KS models having washed out colors and a dim picture in HDR mode.
I'm going to assume you have everything enabled that you should (UHD Color,Smart LED High,etc).
Go into the xbox one settings and disable HDR.
Then power off your xbox one (hold the power on the unit for a few seconds).
Wait for it to shut down and power on the Xbox
Go back into settings and enable HDR.
Launch your game
That did it for me. I could tell immediately when Forza launched that it was working. Before,when I launched the game I could see the picture dim noticeably than the the dashboard and the colors having a faded look. No matter what settings I changed I could not get the colors to pop or the screen from dimming. This worked though,I'm guessing the setting didn't 'take' when I first turned it on.
Hope this helps,took me about 3 hours googling and trying different combinations but I'm glad I finally got it,looks amazing now!