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Forza Motorsport 3 - October 2009 release (ignore the OP at your peril)
- Thread starter DuckRacer
- Start date
Psychotext
Member
I suspect you made your mind up long before you ever saw any vids.
Fortinbras
Member
Apex said:
Obviously everyone who claims Forza has good physics is spoiled by the setup or simply incompetent.
Apex said:
It is a shame that you have to keep yourself ignorant of the technologies behind racing simulations so that you do not challenge your misplaced belief in the other games virtues as a simulation. The fact that the other game has to implement two variant physics modes, one for standard and one for professionals just goes to show how outdated its implementation is instead of using one real world physics model and adjusting difficulties with assists. Furthermore it is easy to find the limitations of the other games physics system you can effectively break it, while in Forza because of its physics methodology I have yet to see this occur.
The gap was already large with Forza 2, and it's only going to grow with the refinements made to Forza 3.
Many loyalists to the other game such as yourself believe that the visual feedback of a physics system takes primacy when this simply is not true, look at the best titles on PC for an example of this, what is important is how the cars handle and how they feel, how they feedback and how their tyres interact with the ground and the car itself.
Revelations
Banned
saladine1 said:
Hmmm...speculation=snow=rally=weather..?
Rallisport challenge? Please...god? Answer my prayers..
a standalone rally racer is always better than a rally option in a primarily focused sim racing game. ALWAYS...its all in the focused details.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
That doesn't really goes to prove anything. It never crossed your mind that they keep 'standard' physics model there as an option to people who want to play more casually? They could have easily excluded it, and noone would be any wiser. I mean, they could have had the best physics model in existence as a second option, and by your logic it wouldn't matter - because they also have the simpler one as an option? Also you keep going about tyre physics and deformation - keep in mind that just because the deformation is not rendered on the car model, doesn't mean that the physics calculation behind it is not performed.Zhuk said:
sechsterangriff
Member
Are you kidding me? I am far from being a racing sim fan. I would play Scud Race all day if I could, but I hear people talking about physics and aids and customization and whatever but you can't even race at night?! At least you could try and pull the same trick Bizarre did with PGR4 no?
Fortinbras
Member
Apex said:
Yes please. Let us be with our low standards. You know it better.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
This. Che, if you're still listening, Turn 10 should do a Rallisport Challenge game once Forza 3 is done.Revelations said:
sportzhead
Member
sportzhead said:
Alright guys, I got my Fanatec Wheel Stand last week and have been testing it out since then. I bought it to replaced a playseat classic. The playseat was good but the setup was getting on my nerves. To take it out of the closet every time I wanted to play was a hassle. The thing was heavy and took up a lot of room once out.
The wheel stand is extremely well built. It only takes a few minutes to put it together and all the tools needed are included. Its pretty heavy also so I had no problems with it sliding once in use. The best thing about the stand is its sturdiness, footprint, and easy setup/storage. I can take it out of the closet with the wheel and pedals attached to the stand and have it ready to race in about 30 seconds. Once done racing it's back in the closet in about another 30 seconds. There is very little side to side wobble and pretty much no front to back wobble. Impressive for such a small stand. It is very comfortable to use. I use it while sitting on a couch. The great thing for me is even though I have long legs I'm able to place the pedals further away from the wheel while having the wheel close enough to my body that my arms are not to extended.
Now some cons. The flexibility of the stand is on the poor side. You can raise and tilt the wheel height up and down but that's about it. I believe that why it's so sturdy. It can also get quite expensive if you need all the attachments. I bought the shifter attachment for $20, but was not about to buy the Xbox wheel attachment for another $20. So I used velcro for wheel. Fanatec also sells a pedal stopper for $15 but my advise would be to just use a little velcro. I'm waiting for the Turbo S Wheel which will hard mount to the stand and the pedals come with a metal attachment to secure them to the stand.(Now if the G27 supports the 360 I might go that route.) All in all the stand is awesome. Its more like popping out a controller now to play a racing game than hurting my back lugging out a large racing cockpit. My advice, if you have room for a large racing cockpit that you don't need to hide from the girlfriend/wife go for one. If you want to pop out a wheel and race for an hour or two then make it disappear, go for the Fanatec Wheel Stand.
Some bad pictures.
Parts. Shifter attachment parts on the left.
Stand folded down ready to go in the closet.
â Narayan
Member
The biggest issue for me is the lack of flexibility. I suppose I have no choice, as there aren't any other stands for the Porsche 911 Turbo S wheel. Regardless, your impressions have convinced me to throw down the cash for it.sportzhead said:
Thanks.
There's a rumor rolling on the webs that says that Turn 10 removed the pitstops from the Forza series in Forza 3. Is it true?
http://www.xboxygen.com/Actualite-Xbox-360/Les-dates/Date-de-sortie-de-Forza-Motorsport-3
WTF no pitstop with all that tire simulation and damage???
http://www.xboxygen.com/Actualite-Xbox-360/Les-dates/Date-de-sortie-de-Forza-Motorsport-3
WTF no pitstop with all that tire simulation and damage???
Psychotext
Member
I thought they cleared that up already? No animated pitstops.
[Edit - It's in the link you put in your post. Did you not read it?]
[Edit - It's in the link you put in your post. Did you not read it?]
Zhuk said:
OK, I wasn't going to jump into this mess but just stop. It isn't even subjective.
Suddenly people are forgetting Richard Burns Rally, or are getting misty eyed remembering Forza 2. You talk of limitations to physics systems and the oppurtunities to exploit - I wonder if you really played Forza 2 and took a look at the leaderboards of Elan's driving with CVT like transmissions or muscle cars setting the fastest times not just by abusing the class system but also a flaw in the physics; put simply the tyres relative grip and an error with how the torque is transferred.
Your last paragraph is condescending and plain wrong, if you are really comparing Forza 2 to PC sims then I'm not even going to bother trying to prove why you are so wrong. I'll just leave you with the fact that at the AXF Forza 3 event the fastest laps driven with an R8 around Le Mans were on a par with or quicker than the real life GT2 (yes, full stripped out fucking race cars) class at Le Mans. This after only a day with the game. Explain that genius.
Once again I apologise for bringing this shit up, and I'd ignore it if you were passing it off as an opinion but spouting nonsense and claiming anyone who disagrees doesn't possess the necessary knowledge is ridiculous and only makes you come across as a fanboy.
___
Anyways, you know what would be awesome? The Nurb F1 track connected to the Nordschleife. What with Sebring and La Sarthe F3 could become the enduro king.
Spaceman Spiff
Member
DON'T DO THIS GUYS, WE'S SUPPOSED TO BE GETTIN' NEW INFOS TODAY!
Not to imply I doubt you, but got a source for that? I assume you meant the R8 5.2 street car, right? If so, that's... strange. Blatant inaccuracies like that drive me up the wall.
As for the second point, you could do that in PGR3 & 4 and it was great fun.
Saiyu said:
Not to imply I doubt you, but got a source for that? I assume you meant the R8 5.2 street car, right? If so, that's... strange. Blatant inaccuracies like that drive me up the wall.
As for the second point, you could do that in PGR3 & 4 and it was great fun.
eso76
Member
Tbh i don't think those lap times have a lot to do with inaccurate physics; rather with the fact F3 probably cheats a little to achieve a greater sense of speed.
That is, I think the actual kph is not entirely accurate to real life track distances.
At least, that's what i've been suspecting ever since people pointed out FM3 looked a lot faster than FM2. You can achieve a better sense of speed with a few visual tricks, but that doesn't seem to be the case ; i somehow think they've made cars move a little faster than the kph shown (or made tracks 'smaller').
Not that that would make the inaccuracies more acceptable, in fact i've never understood people complaining about sense of speed or lack of thereof in racing sims, but anyway.
So, what about todays info ??
That is, I think the actual kph is not entirely accurate to real life track distances.
At least, that's what i've been suspecting ever since people pointed out FM3 looked a lot faster than FM2. You can achieve a better sense of speed with a few visual tricks, but that doesn't seem to be the case ; i somehow think they've made cars move a little faster than the kph shown (or made tracks 'smaller').
Not that that would make the inaccuracies more acceptable, in fact i've never understood people complaining about sense of speed or lack of thereof in racing sims, but anyway.
So, what about todays info ??
Psychotext
Member
Was the Audi R8 V10, fastest lap was 04m 06s. Which yeah, puts them around GT2 fastest laps.Spaceman Spiff said:
Game's obviously not finished yet though.
Psychotext
Member
I'm still quite interested to know what Sarrazin's lap time was in the game when using the 908. I've been unable to find it anywhere.
[Edit - I just found a video, will time it]
[Edit - I just found a video, will time it]
Spaceman Spiff
Member
Psychotext said:
Yeah, I'm not going to get pitchforks out or anything, but it's weird nonetheless. Any idea if they were using any assists? I doubt it, but it could explain at least a little bit of the difference in lap times...
eso76 said:
... Unless of course Turn 10 went so far as to do something like this, which I somehow doubt. Why bother refining your physics engine to the point you're modeling tire flex and then let it's accuracy be called into question just to satisfy those who say the game "doesn't look fast enough," as if there were a consensus on what "fast enough" looks like. Sense of speed is subjective, and I agree with you, eso76, that I can't relate to people who find it lacking in sims.
As for the update, who knows what it entails. We'll just have to keep an eye out.
Big Takeover
Member
... and would it be below anyone to jack it's PI for maximum effect at Audi's own event? ;-)Psychotext said:
Psychotext
Member
Sarrazin's first lap (in the vid) was about 3m 40s, second was 3m 35s. Neither seemed to be great laps though (he had a minor bump in the second, screwed up quite a few turns and had a standing start in the first).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOOQfL9zu0M
I'd wager there was something fishy going on with the Audi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOOQfL9zu0M
I'd wager there was something fishy going on with the Audi.
â Narayan
Member
www.fanatec.deDustoMan said:
â Narayan
Member
Wow, it really says that. :lolVerve said:
bj00rn_ said:
Really dude, so what is it? A Forza fag on gtplanet, a GT fanboy on the Atari boards and now I'm "downplaying Forza" on gaf? Jesus Christ, you pick which one I've got an agenda against.... Apparently it's now a fucking crime to point out misinformation on the part of developers and ignorant posters.
Spaceman Spiff said:
To be honest it's probably something as simple as the tyres still having more-than-realistic levels of lateral grip, hence quicker cornering speeds. The track might not be 100% either, but that shouldn't account for too much.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Are racing wheel options for the 360 still heavily restricted? Meaning is there still no support for 3rd party wheels like Logitech's stuff?
Spaceman Spiff
Member
Quite a bit of detail in the Kotaku post:
Spaceman Spiff
Member
chespace said:
This bit makes me especially happy.
Oh, and the new screens are hot shit. Whatever you guys are doing to tighten up the graphics on level 5 is seriously impressive.
Diablohead
Member
So Cat and Mouse is in :lol
Not around in the PGR2 days?skybaby said:
Saiyu said:
Quite amusing to read your diatribe lecturing me about subjectivity and fanboyism when your posts contain them (especially since your experience playing sims is largely console based), there is nothing about my claims whatsoever that are fraudulent and are backed up by the realities of modern simulation, downplaying Forza's importance and qualities as a console simulation also go against what the authorities in the sim community say against the other game. If you don't believe my arguments, surely you can look at theirs and draw your own conclusions.
Am I biased? you bet, I make no qualms where I stand nor will I hide it, i'm a PC and 360 gamer and I only own a PS3 for GT5P because that's all that interests me on that console.
What I wish to get across is to draw the line in the sand with comparisons with the other game, one can argue cars, tracks, features and modes ad nauseum with subjectivity which is fine as it is ultimately personal taste, but there is no way that anyone who is objective and who has done their homework will ever say that the other game's physics system is more advanced than Forza's.
As you aren't a PC sim enthusiast I do not expect you to be able to adequately understand the virtues of PC sims and how they compare and contrast to Forza, but it is objective fact that the physics system in the Forza series is the closest things on consoles today to what the best PC sims are using, while the other game is not. Richard Burns Rally is a fantastic game, but the Forza series is definitely developing the superior model, which is inevitable with each iteration delivering improvement.
You're right, Forza 2 did have bugs and issues, it's not perfect and I won't pretend it is because it is made by human hands, The Elan issue was a bug that was concurrently fixed as were other issues, but I feel as such it is not an argument that can be used against the methodology of the physics system but one that works in their favour as they were able to correct the issue within the engine, I still stand by the fact that Forza's physics model is extremely difficult to break unlike in the other game which can be broken without too much effort.
In regards to the times on Le Mans, I honestly have no idea on it as I have not played the game yet, but I think its fair to see that the game is still not complete and still may have many balance issues and bugs so I do not really see why you are raising such a point as the game is still being worked on, I am sure you can agree with this.
Big Takeover
Member
That all sounds fantastic. Who doesn't like tons of choices, right?
Staggered start times will be great for when I play with some of my more casual racing friends.
Staggered start times will be great for when I play with some of my more casual racing friends.
rocksteady1983
Member
Seeing all these screens have me more excited about photomode. Che, can you tell us if you expanded on photo mode options such as DOF, Shutterspeed, ect.........none, a bit, a lot, or complete overhaul? Thanks man, can't wait.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Oh, shit -- Halo 3-esque party system should be in every game.
Great news.
Great news.
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