Wheel or controller?
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Forza Motorsport 7 demo is now live for Xbox One and W10
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
Wheel or controller?
Controller. I don't have a 360 compatible wheel.
It has that odd steering is attached to anything feel, all spongy and dead, feels like GRID, where the steering feels like it's attached with bungee cords.
Think I'll give it a swerve until a sale, it will be the first FM since 2 I've not brought at release.
To me it more or less feels exactly like I'd expect from Forza 6. Far too easy to lose grip yet at the same time it's also far too easy to maintain a drift. Watching me attempt to drift in something like rFactor 2 would be good for a laugh but I can do it with my eyes closed in Forza. It's like it was made for drifters and not racers.
In case my wording was confusing I was saying I preferred Forza 4's handling btw.
RedlineRonin
Member
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
downloading right now.
what are people thinking of it so far?
what are people thinking of it so far?
After half an hour with the demo, I'm disappointed 
Fortunately, I have not had problems with windows store and installation.
Putting videos on the menus but being unable to show them in a fluid way is terrible. You don't need to put videos. If you decide to put them, at least show them correctly. Lots of stutters even before showing the basic "push a button to start". After pressing the button, more video stutters. Regrettable.
The menus are displayed before the content is loaded. That is, I had to choose my driver in a series of empty squares. I had a while thinking before I realized the problem, and my hard drive is not exactly slow.
Automatic settings were wrong for me. The first race was a juddery festival. I have a 2700K at 5ghz and a GTX1080. The game proposed 4K with dynamic settings. Even so, the game was stopped for 2 or 3 seconds at each turn.
I tried to change the graphics settings but was unable mid race. This is something possible in Apex and FH3, but not in this demo. So went back to menu, changed the options and tried to start a second race. Endless loading for 4 minutes and finally closed the game.
In the second test, I disabled dynamic settings, but used same 4K ultra. Loading was ok, but again bad stutters while playing. Reduced resolution to 1080p and the game run "fine". I mean, no stutters.
Anyway, even using 60 fps (vsync), the game has framepacing issues. Is not smooth. Apex and FH3 runs today perfectly smooth with perfect framepacing. But not this demo.
After all the bumbo jumbo about Apex being a first test for PC development and FH3 problems being caused by different developer and open world streaming related, I was hoping a real excellent result in Forza 7. But this demo, with the stutters, framepacing issues, fucking unmanageable and not fun porsche race, CPU cores at 100%, the terrible masking problem between the mountains and the sky and so on, puts Turn10 under a bad light for me as PC developers.
I'm looking at Project CARS 2 differently after being convinced that Forza 7 could be my racing game this winter.
Fortunately, I have not had problems with windows store and installation.
Putting videos on the menus but being unable to show them in a fluid way is terrible. You don't need to put videos. If you decide to put them, at least show them correctly. Lots of stutters even before showing the basic "push a button to start". After pressing the button, more video stutters. Regrettable.
The menus are displayed before the content is loaded. That is, I had to choose my driver in a series of empty squares. I had a while thinking before I realized the problem, and my hard drive is not exactly slow.
Automatic settings were wrong for me. The first race was a juddery festival. I have a 2700K at 5ghz and a GTX1080. The game proposed 4K with dynamic settings. Even so, the game was stopped for 2 or 3 seconds at each turn.
I tried to change the graphics settings but was unable mid race. This is something possible in Apex and FH3, but not in this demo. So went back to menu, changed the options and tried to start a second race. Endless loading for 4 minutes and finally closed the game.
In the second test, I disabled dynamic settings, but used same 4K ultra. Loading was ok, but again bad stutters while playing. Reduced resolution to 1080p and the game run "fine". I mean, no stutters.
Anyway, even using 60 fps (vsync), the game has framepacing issues. Is not smooth. Apex and FH3 runs today perfectly smooth with perfect framepacing. But not this demo.
After all the bumbo jumbo about Apex being a first test for PC development and FH3 problems being caused by different developer and open world streaming related, I was hoping a real excellent result in Forza 7. But this demo, with the stutters, framepacing issues, fucking unmanageable and not fun porsche race, CPU cores at 100%, the terrible masking problem between the mountains and the sky and so on, puts Turn10 under a bad light for me as PC developers.
I'm looking at Project CARS 2 differently after being convinced that Forza 7 could be my racing game this winter.
Looks nice, sounds nice, liking the way the view is now very dynamic, hate the physics.
Windows 10 development for gaming has been a mess since the begining.
SonicVolcano
Member
I can't even navigate the menus properly, after choosing my native resolution. It lags like hell.
xrnzaaas
Member
Lol, on my Home Edition the Creators Update didn't even install yet. One more reason to avoid the PC demo.
Daffy Duck
Member
At least I know Im not the only one that thought this!
I thought I just sucked at racing game now after spending hours in FH3.
I think i found the culprit for the stuttering (at least on my end) and it's MSAA, if i turn it off the stuttering is gone but there's waaaay too much jaggies (i'm on 1440p), setting the resolution scale to 200% took care of that (so the resolution is now 3620x2036), the framerate in the menu is BS but during the race is a locked 60fps.
i5 3570K 4,2Ghz
GTX 970 1460Mhz/8Ghz
i5 3570K 4,2Ghz
GTX 970 1460Mhz/8Ghz
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
the game actually looks great. i was put off by what i had seen in youtube videos.
shame about the performance though...it's OK most of the time but i'm getting freezes that last 2-3 seconds. audio craps out too. i thought i was gonna BSOD. not sure what to do...might just hold off and wait to see how the full game is.
for what it's worth i had the game completely maxed out at 1440p. my pc is 6700K, 16GB, 1070.
shame about the performance though...it's OK most of the time but i'm getting freezes that last 2-3 seconds. audio craps out too. i thought i was gonna BSOD. not sure what to do...might just hold off and wait to see how the full game is.
for what it's worth i had the game completely maxed out at 1440p. my pc is 6700K, 16GB, 1070.
They are very different games, will depend on what you actually want out of a racing game.
SonicVolcano
Member
Hmm, after restarting it works okay. The menus are still laggy, but the races are butter-smooth. Game looks really nice! Sound design is top notch, too.
i think it looks pretty good. i have same set up and no stutters at 4k. menus and end of race are 36fps and racing is 72 tho
maybe gsync?
eso76
Member
yep, especially when the difference are mostly relative to resolution and IQ.
Just pointing out that most other things look very similar, but yeah, even geometry is hard to judge.
Maintenance
Member
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
seems to get rid of the stuttering/freezing for me but at 1080p w/135% resolution render (about 1440p) it just looks awful with jaggies. I really need MSAA on but it just ruins performance.
think i'll just be passing on the game. what a disappointment. hopefully they fix it.
Xcell Miguel
Gold Member
In French there's a bad translation and there's "30 fps (vsync)" two times, the second being in fact 60 fps with vsync. I don't know about other languages, but this error is also in Forza 6 Apex.
FunkyDealer
Banned
Hoping for an Ultra setting on car models in the final game. The LOD pop-in happens a little too close, so when you're tailing an opponent you'll easily see their car go in and out of two states.
Well no, 1440p is 77% more pixels than 1080p, so you need to set the resolution render to 175% to get close or 180% for slightly above 1440p.
Skyr
Member
I just tried this out. What the hell? What did they do to that awesome Forza feel on a controller?
This feels weirdly unresponsive on a controller now. One of the biggest strengths of the series. Feels almost like Im slightly drunk. Im so disappointed right now and actually think about not picking up a Forza game for the first time since 1.
This feels weirdly unresponsive on a controller now. One of the biggest strengths of the series. Feels almost like Im slightly drunk. Im so disappointed right now and actually think about not picking up a Forza game for the first time since 1.
seriously?
TylerDurden4321
Member
Yea, but you play on "normal steering", don't you? What Normal Steering does, it changes your actual steering input in the non-visual part of the game, just the physics engine I mean, to what is needed. On a controller it changes the steering acceleration super fast if countersteering is needed and basically jumps to the ideal countersteering angle as soon as you flick the stick, with the car's weight at the front it makes the steering acceleration slower to not upset the car. It not only does this on a controller, but when using a wheel too.
If you turn that aid off - and that is what it is, the most powerful assist (and most unrealistic if not on a controller) in the whole assist menu, even though it's called just "normal" - drifting is harder than in rFactor 2, harder than in any sim even pCARS1, which's tire model was almost broken for slow-speed drifting.
I also made a video about Simulation vs Normal steering for a private talk with another fellow gaffer:
https://youtu.be/QfTkHVKQLsk
As you can see in the video, the steering angle change is non-visual. The tire direction differ from what the car is actual doing.
It's a bit like turning your simulation physics racing game into a bit of an arcade racer when playing with a wheel. Or the "latest news" comparison: Like using controller aim-assist when using a mouse.
If they called it "controller steering help" instead of "normal steering" and "1:1 input matching" rather than "Simulation Steering", it would not only be more correct, it would make it more obvious to wheel users, how broken the tire physics are if you're not just following the racing line input suggestions but trying to drive it like a real car.
It feels to me like Turn 10 is disguising the shortcomings of their physics model ever since FM5's tire model by hiding that it can't cope with weird, snappy steering acceleration that should not lead to an almost uncatchable spin, but can't be achieved using a controller with the speed-sensitive steering and Normal Steering aid anyway, so nobody notices it.
[Side-note: Personally, what I think the lag between physical and on-screen steering wheel is, is not actual lag, but an input smoothing filter that averages the last 60ms or so of input signal values (typically used for controllers in racing games), adding a kind of damp-spring to the steering because the physics engine /tire model has trouble coping with too swift changes]
Certainly could do with separate threads for physics discussion and graphics discussion!
FunkyDealer
Banned
Seriously. At least in every game I've used it in. Where 1080p at 200% is 2160p.
Final Spark
Member
Time to see how my gtx 970 holds up.
Wait, it doubles the horizontal or vertical pixels? i mean, at 200% is a 1440p screen 5120x1440 or 2560x2880?
Xcell Miguel
Gold Member
It doubles both.
What he meant is that 200% is twice the resolution on both axes. But not twice the amount of pixels.
And twice the resolution of pixels on both axes means 4 times the amount of pixels.
Skyr
Member
5120x2880
So like 4x in DSR? so at 200% a 2560x1440 screen is 5120x2880 aka 5K? and 150% is 3840x2160
It's the old myth that sim = hard.
It's gonna be interesting to try this demo out later and over the weekend. I won't be able to get my TX wheel out until tomorrow evening, but I can at least get a feeler tonight and see how the game performs.
I'd be lying if all the wheel/FFB issues I've been reading doesn't concern me quite a bit having already laid down £80 for the Ultimate Edition, but hopefully Turn 10 will be able to get on top of things for when the game lands at the end of next week.
I'd be lying if all the wheel/FFB issues I've been reading doesn't concern me quite a bit having already laid down £80 for the Ultimate Edition, but hopefully Turn 10 will be able to get on top of things for when the game lands at the end of next week.
Hugh Swank
Member
Reading about all these problems some people are having on PC just re-affirms to me why I game on console. I fired up the day-1 XB1 last night, downloaded & started playing in 15 minutes. Played through the whole demo with no issues, smooth as butter. The game looked & played great on the OG XB1.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Visually this game is incredible.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
Yikes there is a lot of tearing though.
Fortinbras
Member
I agree. I'm very disappointed. This is the first time since Forza 2 I won't buy a new Forza game at launch.
It's surprising really. I wanted to buy PC2 and Forza 7 and skip GT Sport. Now GT Sport is my last hope.
You're also not liking it...I know you're a massive fan. Constantly ahead of me in the Forza loyalty leaderboards.