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[MvmntInGrn]

Alright, let's play! It is a "poor angle" in my opinion considering SMG is extremelly "fun" in the opinion of most. In this context "poor angle" essentially means "disagreeable perspective" on the matter.

Not that his opinion is invalid or anything.

Playground. Thats basically what this thread is now. I don't see how "poor angle" translates to "disagreeable perspective" but I get what you are saying now.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Bigger picture: How much did Miyamoto actually have to do with Galaxy?

Quite a bit. He is Mario's fucking father and all. He introduced and discussed the initial game design, he threw around other ideas early on, left it for a while, and revisited it, impressing upon the team that he wished to make the game more difficult. They did, and near the end of the development they decided to tone some of the more difficult levels down a bit. He also oversaw music design with Koji Kondo.

 

[Speevy]

EDIT: Also... all this universal acclaim talk.... what about GTAIV? Universal acclaim is a measure of the quality of ICO and SotC but not GTAIV?

I never said he couldn't dislike the game, but I'm disagreeing with the notion that most people do.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Well, I don't give a damn about review scores, but my argument isn't that games do or do not deserve a score, rather that the phrase 'universal acclaim' means nothing when the critics are such a niche.

It seems like every single big production value game these days gets an automatic 9/10 or 10/10, regardless to actual quality. I don't even pay attention to review scores anymore.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Quite a bit. He is Mario's fucking father and all. He introduced and discussed the initial game design, he threw around other ideas early on, left it for a while, and revisited it, impressing upon the team that he wished to make the game more difficult. They did, and near the end of the development they decided to tone some of the more difficult levels down a bit. He also oversaw music design with Koji Kondo.

I still doubt how much these distant oversight positions equate to being heavily involved in the project. Especially compared to things like the Wii ___ series.

Edit: Woops. DP.

 

[Oblivion]

...That's what I think too.

Take this however you will:

Q: What is your personal role in the development of Galaxy, and how much of the game is your vision?

A: As far as my involvement, with Mario 64 I was the main director. In this case, I'm more directly involved with game design. In one sense, I'm even more involved than I was with Super Mario 64.

Course, Miyamoto is clearly proven to be a glory hound, so he may have been lying just to score some interweb points.

 

[Poimandres]

Playground. Thats basically what this thread is now. I don't see how "poor angle" translates to "disagreeable perspective" but I get what you are saying now.

Yeah... poor choice of words on my part. Every "angle" is equally valid, since these are opinions we are dealing with, and everyone is entitled.

 

[sonicmj1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZZ37BmPzTE (MAJOR SPOILERS)

There it is. If you still don't get it, I can't help you.

To someone with poor memories of both games, this video will not help your case.

From what I can tell, legend didn't really connect to the setting and minimal plot elements of either game for whatever reason, and when the act of playing for both titles is divorced entirely from its emotional framework, it's not really 'fun' in the way that Super Mario Galaxy is already fun divorced from context. If the player doesn't find protecting Yorda to be of much importance, or they're climbing and defeating the colossi simply because they should, than those acts have no meaning, and every impediment to them just serves as an annoyance.

If I sound condescending here, I really don't want to, but a huge part of creating that connection has to come from the player. Without a curiosity to want to understand the pieces of the tale, or the imagination that will, independently of the player's intentional effort, create the motivations that go unspoken in both games, there's not going to be enough there to tell you exactly why you should care so much.

To see a quick example of an extreme version of that mindset at work (one not related directly in any way to Ueda's games), you can look at Tycho's most recent blog post at Penny Arcade. I doubt that most of the people who enjoyed Ico or SotC feel quite as strongly as Tycho does about their games, but some part of them has to engage in that process. I doubt those players even realize they're doing it.

I think Ueda does a good job at coaxing those unspoken motivations from players without much backstory or exposition, but if he doesn't do it for you, then there's no reason you'd feel that way.

 

[yoopoo]

Its not just Galaxy, its not even Zelda TP...its also Metroid Prime 3 influenced by Ueda http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225425

Sony fans are such freaky creatures. :lol

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I read the OP, the first-half of the first troll-filled page, and I already knew exactly where this thread was going. Bravo, NeoGAF.

 

[Speevy]

Its not just Galaxy, its not even Zelda TP...its also Metroid Prime 3 influenced by Ueda http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225425

Sony fans are such freaky creatures. :lol

Team ICO is so great at what they do that I don't think you have to like Sony to appreciate the care they put into their games.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Well, I don't give a damn about review scores, but my argument isn't that games do or do not deserve a score, rather that the phrase 'universal acclaim' means nothing when the critics are such a niche.

Your argument is invalid. It is demonstrably untrue that generally all reviewers score all games the same way; a simple perusal of Metacritic or Gamerankings will show that the standard deviation for individual games varies widely. "Universal acclaim" still has meaning in such a world, even if "universal" is a too-ambitious term.

It's true that despite their variability, reviews usually do fall into ranges that are quite restricted compared to the whole possible range of scores. But homogeneity of reviewers isn't the only--or the best--explanation for this. Reviewers are responding to a single object, and the inherent qualities of that object are more compelling as a reason for their scores. If a sports car speeds by a college dorm, the reason most observers say "That was a Ferrari" probably isn't because they're 20-something males, but because it was, in fact, a Ferrari.

 

[sonicmj1]

Its not just Galaxy, its not even Zelda TP...its also Metroid Prime 3 influenced by Ueda http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225425

Sony fans are such freaky creatures. :lol

MP3-- in that open spot on the first planet after the intro, there's a huge, downed statue that looks like a colossus. Also, a lot of the decoration on that planet reminds me of the Colossi's looks, especially the eyes on statues and "tribal" designs.

I'd hope that nobody posting in this thread agrees that these things mean that MP3 was influenced at all by Shadow of the Colossus.

 

[MvmntInGrn]

To someone with poor memories of both games, this video will not help your case.

From what I can tell, legend didn't really connect to the setting and minimal plot elements of either game for whatever reason, and when the act of playing for both titles is divorced entirely from its emotional framework, it's not really 'fun' in the way that Super Mario Galaxy is already fun divorced from context. If the player doesn't find protecting Yorda to be of much importance, or they're climbing and defeating the colossi simply because they should, than those acts have no meaning, and every impediment to them just serves as an annoyance.

If I sound condescending here, I really don't want to, but a huge part of creating that connection has to come from the player. Without a curiosity to want to understand the pieces of the tale, or the imagination that will, independently of the player's intentional effort, create the motivations that go unspoken in both games, there's not going to be enough there to tell you exactly why you should care so much.

To see a quick example of an extreme version of that mindset at work (one not related directly in any way to Ueda's games), you can look at Tycho's most recent blog post at Penny Arcade. I doubt that most of the people who enjoyed Ico or SotC feel quite as strongly as Tycho does about their games, but some part of them has to engage in that process. I doubt those players even realize they're doing it.

I think Ueda does a good job at coaxing those unspoken motivations from players without much backstory or exposition, but if he doesn't do it for you, then there's no reason you'd feel that way.

I agree.

 

[Conrad Link]

Isn't it like, kinda taboo to not love and respect anything 'Miyamoto-san' does in Japan? That's the feeling I get when anyone else ever talks about him in an interview.

 

[Y2Kev]

Isn't it like, kinda taboo to not love and respect anything 'Miyamoto-san' does in Japan? That's the feeling I get when anyone else ever talks about him in an interview.

Well, experts on Japanese culture know that Japan is based around a tradition of Honor and Shame...so yes, it brings great Shame upon an individual do disagree with something Miyamoto has done.

 

[JDSN]

I am so glad that a great developer like him shares his views on games we have played, shame theres a lot of people twisting what he says to start trolling like the crazy Shadowrun fanboy did or just swearing to never play his games again. "Fucking gamers" indeed.

 

[Calcaneus]

This thread reminds me, we have been sorely lacking in awesome Itagaki quotes these past few months.

Now there's a guy who really knew how to talk mess.

 

[SolidSnakex]

This thread reminds me, we have been sorely lacking in awesome Itagaki quotes these past few months.

Just last month he was talking shit about Kamiya and Bayonetta

1UP: What do you think about Bayonetta, as a game? Do you think Kamiya is right to follow the Devil May Cry formula so closely?

TI: If I made a similar game as a game I made in the company I quit, people would say, "What an idiot, can't he make anything else?" Well, that is more or less the opinion I have for, uh, that Bayo-something game.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?pager.offset=1&cId=3174656

 

[legend166]

Your argument is invalid. It is demonstrably untrue that generally all reviewers score all games the same way; a simple perusal of Metacritic or Gamerankings will show that the standard deviation for individual games varies widely. "Universal acclaim" still has meaning in such a world, even if "universal" is a too-ambitious term.

Sorry, I'm calling bullcrap on that. Here's the figures on the current top 5 box office films in the US:

Ice Age 3: Average - 54, Std Deviation - 13
Transformers 2: Average - 43, Std Deviation - 18
Public Enemies: Average - 71, Std Deviation - 15
The Proposal: Average - 53, Std Deviation - 17
The Hangover: Average - 74, Std Deviation - 13

Compared to the top 5 unique games in the May 2009 NPD

UFC Undisputed 2009: Average - 83, Std Deviation - 5 (22 reviews gave this an 8/10)
Wii Fit: Average - 79, Std Deviation - 7
EA Sports Active: Average - 23, Std Deviation - 7
Infamous: Average - 84, Std Deviation - 9 (93 reviews, that took too long)
Pokemon Platinum: Average - 82, Std Deviation - 6

Not the most scientific comparison, but I think it does the job. Each list has its mix of 'casual' (Ice Age, the Proposal, Wii Fit, EA Sports Active), and 'hardcore' (Infamous, Public Enemies).

Man, doing that sucked. I got through the movies alright, but dammit there's too many reviews for video games. But I couldn't stop halfway because then the previous half would have been a waste D: Maybe I'll make a seperate thread about this.

 

[Johann]

Isn't it like, kinda taboo to not love and respect anything 'Miyamoto-san' does in Japan? That's the feeling I get when anyone else ever talks about him in an interview.

I remember visits by him being described by a Retro Studios employee as Emperor Palpatine coming in in order to inspect the Deathstar. Everybody was very tense since the guy who made Mario and Zelda was coming over to check up on them.

I have a feeling Miyamoto is going to be known as one of the driving forces behind the Wii in a few years rather than the creator of classic NES titles. In particular, Wii Fit is going to be his life-defining game. It's selling more in one month than most games sell in a lifetime. It's sold more than an entire series of games. Major publishers are after its success with their own knockoffs. Most importantly, it's destroying the image of videogames as a unhealthy, brain rotting poison, which is really huge.

Anyway, it's nice to have an interview out of Ueda. Team Ico is very sporadic when it comes to talking with so much that I forget they even exist at times. Although some stuff looks like its lost in translation.

 

[Dragmire]

The guy makes great experiences, but gameplay.....?

As much as I want to play The Last Guardian, it's because of the characters. I'm actually a bit worried about the similarities to Ico. I mean it looks a lot more interesting, but I found that game to be terribly weak.

 

[Chromax]

I agree with everything he said.

 

[Dr Bad Dude PHD]

Ueda could shit out games better than both GTAIV and Galaxy every month if he wanted to, but instead he makes memorable games on the console that deserves them.

 

[Shurs]

Is it just me or are the Japanese more arrogant than the rest of the world?

Famito Ueda's about to make you his bitch.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

The guy makes great experiences, but gameplay.....?

Uh, was there something wrong with the gameplay in SOTC? I had a hard time getting into it for other reasons, but the gameplay was incredibly engaging. Holding on for dear life while the colossus tosses about to get rid of you, all while trying to find the best route to the target. Pretty awesome stuff.

 

[karasu]

SOTC is boring me. I haven't fought a Colossus yet though. :lol I'm just running around on the damn horse holding my sword up over and over again.

 

[Insertia]

The guy is right.

GTAIV for all the immersive beautiful production qualities didn't feature gameplay that wasn't anything we haven't did a billion times. The game seriously had what seemed like three or four mission types that repeated throughout the game. Complete dissapointment considering how big the series is and how GTA:SA pushed sandbox games to a new level.

Mario Galaxy just wasn't very fun for me particularly because it's the same 3D platformer formula.
Super Mario Bros.: Fun. Best platformer ever IMO.
First time playing Mario64: OMFG Holy shit mind blown awesome.
Mario Galaxy: New system but nothing new to see for this iteration. Like Sunshine I had to force my way through it.

I appreciate professionals such as this guy being critical. I've been really disappointed by most games this generation because it seems as if the developers are taking easy routes out and doing nothing groundbreaking. Yes, I want to see groundbreaking, completely new, innovative, jaw dropping things in my $60 game purchase.

I've only played Shadow of the Colossus and clearly this what Ueda is aims for. SotC is one of those few games last gen that offered a completely new experience. This man seems to study videogames and strays away from doing formulaic crap we've already experienced. Respect.

 

[Dr Bad Dude PHD]

SOTC is boring me. I haven't fought a Colossus yet though. :lol I'm just running around on the damn horse holding my sword up over and over again.

You have a lot of trouble making things like toast don't you? You just keep staring at the toaster and pointing your sword at it.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

SOTC is boring me. I haven't fought a Colossus yet though. :lol I'm just running around on the damn horse holding my sword up over and over again.

Do you know why you are holding the sword up?

 

[karasu]

Do you know why you are holding the sword up?

Yeah, but I haven't found it yet. I got to a door of some sort but I can't open it. That was like a week ago and I haven't played since. I don't care to to be honest.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Ueda could shit out games better than both GTAIV and Galaxy every month if he wanted to, but instead he makes memorable games on the console that deserves them.

 

[Dr Bad Dude PHD]

 

[sprsk]

Yeah, but I haven't found it yet. I got to a door of some sort but I can't open it. That was like a week ago and I haven't played since. I don't care to to be honest.

*smack*

 

[CHRP718]

Yeah, but I haven't found it yet. I got to a door of some sort but I can't open it. That was like a week ago and I haven't played since. I don't care to to be honest.

 

[neojubei]

Spoiler

nom

Damn he is cute.


Why are people so upset, he didn't say he disliked Galaxy.