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Gabe Newell: "We get really frustrated working in walled gardens."

A

ashecitism

Member
So, probably don't expect any console games anytime soon.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...e-games?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

"So you try to talk to someone who's doing product planning on a console about free-to-play games and they say 'Oh, we're not sure free-to-play is a good idea' and you're like 'the ship has left'," Newell said of the cultural difference working with console developers after specialising in PC.
Click to expand...

"There have been cases where we've updated products 5-6 times in a day," he added. "When we did the original iOS of Steam App, right, we shipped it, we got a whole bunch of feedback and like the next day we're ready to do an update. We weren't able to get that update out for six months! And we couldn't find out why they wouldn't release it! They wouldn't tell us. This is the life that you have in these environments. And finally they shipped it! And they wouldn't tell us why they finally shipped it.

"So for us, while we're spending all of our time trying to be as tunnel-vision in this loop with our customers, to all of a sudden have this complete uncertainty about doing updates... Like we don't know how to operate.

"We're just too stupid to know how to be a successful iOS developer," he railed. "'Cause for us, everything that we do, is to make our lives easier and build tools to make other software developer's lives easier.
Click to expand...

"I'm sure that other people are wildly successful in those environments, but sort of our DNA tend to not work well when someone is trying to insert a lot of process between us and our customers."

When Eurogamer asked if self-publishing had got any better in the current console environment, Newell replied: "We love the PC right now. A lot."
Click to expand...
 
Z

Zoggy

Member
liberals have to bring politics into EVERYTHING!!?!?\

get over it hilary lost fat gaben the wall is happening #MAGA
 
C

CryptiK

Member
Thats why Valve updates PC a lot more often than console(that rarely gets updates) Hell DICE Hold back the PC version because of consoles and their "Walled Garden"(Certification Process). We had to put up with a game breaking bug for 3 months while they worked on an update that could have been a quick hotfix if it wasnt for consoles.
 
I

I-hate-u

Member
They were loving consoles back in 2010 with the steam integration on PS3. Nothing came into fruition from that despite it seemingly being a success.
 
K

krang

Member
Aren't there a decent number of examples of F2P games on consoles, now? That sounds like an argument he had 5 years ago.
 
T

the_batman

Banned
why do you need to patch your shitty games 5-6 times a day. also, it seems like some console games get patches out every other week
 
T

Triggerhappytel

Member
I don't play PC games and don't know much about it so please forgive me if I'm mistaken, but is Steam not a walled garden in a sense? But they've done a really good job of adding bells and whistles and making it genuinely appealing.

ramparter said:
You don't even need vavle's permission to put your game on Steam. There are rules sure but you have a lot of freedom.
Click to expand...

Okay, fair enough.
 
R

ramparter

Banned
He is right, I mean look at EA, they wanted to have ea access in ps4 but sony didn't allow them.

It's stupid that we can't have for example Team Fortress 2
and playable by mouse / keyboard
on consoles because of policies

Triggerhappytel said:
I don't play PC games and don't know much about it so please forgive me if I'm mistaken, but is Steam not a walled garden in a sense?
Click to expand...

You don't even need vavle's permission to put your game on Steam. There are rules sure but you have a lot of freedom.
 
S

Skux

Member
Well they don't seem to like making games in open gardens either. Maybe they just don't like gardens.
 
L

Lord of Castamere

Member
Eh. Consoles are better now. I've seen updates come out as quick as they can release them on PS4. Namely Mafia 3 recently. PC will always be quicker on that front, of course, but it's not the same environment it was 3 years ago.

That's a poor excuse for losing, what could be, a sizeable market, imo. Unless, you don't like money.
 
G

GhostTrick

Banned
Lord of Castamere said:
Eh. Consoles are better now. I've seen updates come out as quick as they can release them on PS4. Namely Mafia 3 recently. PC will always be quicker on that front, of course, but it's not the same environment it was 3 years ago.

That's a poor excuse for losing, what could be, a sizeable market, imo. Unless, you don't like money.
Click to expand...


That's not a poor excuse when QA certifications delay every of your updates or when stupid policies prevent you from updating your game the way you want.
 
A

Angst

Member
the_batman said:
why do you need to patch your shitty games 5-6 times a day. also, it seems like some console games get patches out every other week
Click to expand...
Aside from your vitriol you have a point. 5 to 6 updates per day sounds like alpha/beta to me. But maybe it's needed to bring more hats?
 
S

Sad Affleck

Member
It makes sense. Valve's main business ten years ago was making and releasing games. Valve's main business today is Steam. Bringing more people over to Steam is probably worth more to them in the long term than the money made from a console port. Valve no longer has a reason to do things the way Microsoft and Sony want them to.
 
C

CS_Dan

Member
To be fair, 5 or 6 times in a month would be excessive, never mind in a day. I'm pretty sick of Steam updating literally every time I open it.
Update the content, not the client.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Lord of Castamere said:
That's a poor excuse for losing, what could be, a sizeable market, imo. Unless, you don't like money.
Click to expand...
If 2016 has taught us anything, blind appeals to authority are probably fucking terrible, but i'm confident they've done the math
 
A

Aztechnology

Member
CS_Dan said:
To be fair, 5 or 6 times in a month would be excessive, never mind in a day. I'm pretty sick of Steam updating literally every time I open it.
Update the content, not the client.
Click to expand...

It takes like 10 seconds. But yea, it never seems to change much. Seems like they could do with a little less. It's as if they were on git hub pushing every update to develop.
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
CS_Dan said:
To be fair, 5 or 6 times in a month would be excessive, never mind in a day. I'm pretty sick of Steam updating literally every time I open it.
Update the content, not the client.
Click to expand...

He's not talking about the client. Also, opt out of the beta: the stable client is generally updated once every month and very occasionally even skips one.
 
P

patapuf

Member
Angst said:
Aside from your vitriol you have a point. 5 to 6 updates per day sounds like alpha/beta to me. But maybe it's needed to bring more hats?
Click to expand...

I don't understand why one would prefer to wait until a patch fixes an arbitrary amount of things instead of singular fixes just bieng put out as soon as they are ready.

Especially say, around release, where there will be a bunch of things to fix or after a big content update.
 
A

Angst

Member
patapuf said:
I don't understand why one would prefer to wait until a patch fixes an arbitrary amount of things instead of singular fixes just bieng put out as soon as they are ready.

Especially say, around release, where there will be a bunch of things to fix or after a big content update.
Click to expand...
Sure, but doing one patch daily should be more than enough. But as said above, it's like they're treating I like github.
 
L

Lord of Castamere

Member
GhostTrick said:
That's not a poor excuse when QA certifications delay every of your updates or when stupid policies prevent you from updating your game the way you want.
Click to expand...

In terms of updating? Yeah, it is(at least for the current generation of consoles). In terms of neutering portions of your game, like an ingame marketplace, creation, etc? Sure, I can understand that. Csgo and TF2 thrive on the community aspects that those games have. If they don't feel like the game's worth porting without them, then sure. Completely understand.
 
S

Sad Affleck

Member
Triggerhappytel said:
I don't play PC games and don't know much about it so please forgive me if I'm mistaken, but is Steam not a walled garden in a sense? But they've done a really good job of adding bells and whistles and making it genuinely appealing.
Click to expand...

It depends on how you define a walled garden. This is the definition I found on Wikipedia:

A closed platform, walled garden or closed ecosystem is a software system where the carrier or service provider has control over applications, content, and media, and restricts convenient access to non-approved applications or content. This is in contrast to an open platform, where consumers generally have unrestricted access to applications and content.
Click to expand...

That definition does apply in part to Steam. Valve has control over the applications, content and media on Steam. It's very loose, some would argue it's almost non-existent nowadays, but it is still technically there. On the other hand Valve doesn't restrict access to non-approved games since you can add any non-Steam game to your library and Valve has no way of stopping anyone from releasing a game on PC outside of Steam anyway. So I don't know.
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
leeh said:
"We got tired of working in walled gardens so we made our own" - Gabe Newell
Click to expand...

His point is that it's frustrating when there are barriers to releasing updates. While, yes, technically there is a "wall" in the form of Greenlight, there isn't when it comes to pushing through patches. The closest Steam has to a certification process is the initial approval. If consoles have walls, then Steam, at worst, has a small fence -- which, incidentally, is also an accurate description of the barrier to entry from Greenlight.
 
S

Shari

Member
leeh said:
"We got tired of working in walled gardens so we made our own" - Gabe Newell
Click to expand...

LOL.

You can update your game on Steam however you want, whenever you want with no certification process.

You can also publish your F2P game without having to ask permission to anybody.

You also have refun...

Anyway, I think you're just trolling.
 
J

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Dreamwriter said:
Amazing, the owner of the largest PC game store hates competing game stores!
Click to expand...

That's way off the mark, and in fact Valve sells its own games on GameStop, GMG and even Uplay. EADM, too, prior to the Origin rebranding (whether that was EA's call or Valve's, we'll never know).
 
P

Peru

Member
This is supposed to convey annoyance at the walled gardens but only serves to make me realize how little interest I have in Newell's vision of games going forward.
 
D

dracula_x

Member
"When we did the original iOS of Steam App, right, we shipped it, we got a whole bunch of feedback and like the next day we're ready to do an update. We weren't able to get that update out for six months! And we couldn't find out why they wouldn't release it! They wouldn't tell us."
Click to expand...

it reminds me Steam Customer Support ;)
 
C

ClivePwned

Member
leeh said:
"We got tired of working in walled gardens so we made our own" - Gabe Newell
Click to expand...

my thoughts when I read Gabe's remarks. Yeah someone else taking their sweet time to get back to you about releasing your product in their marketplace. Outrageous.

It's a good thing Valve was never like this to devs wanting to get on steam. Nope. They were never like that. Nope. Nosiree.
 
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