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Gamasutra's in depth tie-ratio analysis
- Thread starter Kenka
- Start date
Little Green Yoda
Member
Jocchan said:
*only applies to consoles other than your favorite
Jocchan said:
Hmm, that memo looks a bit too simplistic and short to be counted in the average number of memoes per household. Obviously people only get it because it's essentially a piece of paper bundled with a few sentences. The piece of paper can still be used to write down other things, such as your shopping list. Of course people are going to get that memo, duh!
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Awww man... why would you DO that? We were having such fun discussing tie ratios and you had to go and bring some context into the mix.Karma said:
You're no fun >:-(
Don't know, don't care. If they did, I'd be fine seeing those sales excluded from tie ratios as well.Stumpokapow said:
If they were similar in that they were essential accessory bundles that only barely outpriced the cost of the accessory by itself, then yes sure.
First party games do not need to be excluded because anyone can match first party prices (unless games are literally priced below the royalty rate - highly unlikely). Bundles that include non-essential accessories (EyeToy, M+, Balance Board, Classic Controller) and don't strike me as likely to produce significant outliers. If I was merely against value-oriented bundles I would suggest throwing them out, but I'm not. Now if they did something like price Wii: Sports Resort/M+ bundle at $24.99......I might kinda have to think about it.
By what metric? Is it really fair to suggest that something that was literally given to the majority of system purchasers is the "most popular" game, or is it just an attempt to give a pompous title to a pack-in? This place has its fair share of Microsoft fanboys, yet I never see anyone claiming that Solitaire or Minesweeper is the MOST POPULAR GAME OF THE CENTURY!
No, no, I got you got I wasn't serious (lol). I just thought you could have missed where the joke comes from (it's a pretty old meme, after all)Kilrogg said:Wait, you thought I thought you were being serious? Man, I really suck at sarcasm. I didn't mean to offend you, I just took your post as an opportunity to expand on the silliness of the argument (Wii Play "unfairly" counted in the tie ratio).
Huh... sales, maybe? He's also talking about Japan, where the game isn't a pack-in.border said:
I did in that DS thread, but I also said a lot of other things, some of which are patent pending.border said:
And the reason not to include pack-ins like Wii Sports is that while you can safely predict that Wii Sports would have been bought anyway, you can't safely predict if that purchase would or wouldn't have a depressing effect on purchases of other software, even if you adjusted the price.
I don't think I'd point to Japan as a reliable metric for western trends.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
At one point (in Japan), maybe a year after launch, Wii Sports alone had outsold every single piece of Playstation 3 software combined. It had a tie ratio of 0.5 -> 0.7, if I remember it correctly. Think about that for a minute.border said:
Close to launch, people were claiming that Wii owners were buying the console for Wii Sports then never purchasing another piece of software for it ever again. All over the media, people were playing Wii Sports or seeing it in action, then buying the console so they could play it. Outside of Japan, we have no numerical method of determining how many did so, but the Japanese situation makes one thing clear - Wii Sports is the game that will go on to define this generation, whether one likes it or not.
You're right. The Wii is only competitive in Japan right now, rather than crushingly dominant.Zachack said:
Jocchan said:No, no, I got you got I wasn't serious (lol). I just thought you could have missed where the joke comes from (it's a pretty old meme, after all)
I've been a sales-ager for a while now, so yeah, I know about that meme. That was thoughtful of you though, thanks!
@border: you won't see anyone talk about Minesweeper and Solitaire (despite everyone and their mother playing it all the time
) because they're just one tiny feature among many other for a product that isn't intended for entertainment at its core. Wii Play gets as much visibility as the Wiimote it is packed with. Obviously paying 10 bucks more for a so-called "bonus" game means you're seeing some value in the game. You're not buying the game just because of the controller. You're buying it instead of buying a standalone controller because you think the game is worth paying that amount of money.Also, it is strange you should talk about fanboys, as if you couldn't reasonably argue that Wii Play is relevant. For a moment, I'd think you're insinuating that Stump is "defending" Wii Play because of some bias. That's funny.
You could make the argument that the game is bought solely for the controller if standalone controllers didn't exist, and for a time they weren't readily available, but that was only in the launch window.
MikeE21286
Member
If Wii Play counts in this....then, well, yeah
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
MikeE21286 said:
Yeah.Karma said:
Psychotext
Member
Between that one and the PS3's "bought as blu-ray player" one we can argue the tie ratio up to wherever we want it.Gbeav said:
For instance, I heard there's actually only 500k 360 owners, but they've each had 28 360s and bought 232 games each.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Stumpokapow said:
Well, Sony did do it with the Headset and charging $10 bucks more for Socom.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
At least gamers are still buying in this rough economy.
Thinking about it for a minute, it kinda helps the comparison that the 360 was a non-starter in that particular territory.viciouskillersquirrel said:
The original post that proclaimed "Most Popular Game of the Generation" had none of the caveats that were later specified ("In Japan!" "After about a year!"). Is it still the best-selling Wii game in that territory?
I don't find the arguments that Wii Sports would have sold just as well in USA/Euro, given that every other minigame collection has had to have some kind of hardware gimmick bundle to prop it up (Play, Fit, now Resort). I think the smart move was to bundle it, because people wouldn't have coughed up the dough for a $50 sports game collection.
What I'm making is the argument that a "game" where only 20% of the consumer's derived value is actually a game should not count 100% towards sales ratios. I don't know why Sony and MS don't just throw in some minigame collection with memory cards, controllers, and video cables.....but I'm kinda glad they don't.Kilrogg said:
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't get why the quality or price of a game should determine if it counts as game software or not.
If Sony or Microsoft wants to sell a $1 copy of Halo or God of War and rake in the bucks, more power to 'em. People buy Wii Play when a controller would be $10 cheaper, so it's not like they're being tricked in to owning the software. And if they were, it still kind of counts.
If Sony or Microsoft wants to sell a $1 copy of Halo or God of War and rake in the bucks, more power to 'em. People buy Wii Play when a controller would be $10 cheaper, so it's not like they're being tricked in to owning the software. And if they were, it still kind of counts.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Hm, maybe I'll help out that Wii number next month with Punch-Out.
border said:
If you're willing to go that route, I can say that the 2nd Wiimote is an integral part of Wii Play's value as a game. After all, the game is designed for 2 players. Noticed how every single game in Wii Play has a 2-player mode? While no-one will ever deny that Wii Play sells as a game + an accessory, it would be disingenuous to say that it doesn't deserve to have all its sales count as software sale just because it's only a fraction of the price of the package.
Wii Play is designed to be used with that other Wiimote. They both go hand in hand to provide some 2-player fun, with the added benefit of being able to use that Wiimote for other games. So what? Is your only argument that the game shouldn't count because selling it as a standalone product would have meant less sales? Wii Play is still a game, whether you like it or not, and it can't be sold separately. That's the only way you can have it (well, that or eBay, I guess), and, again, it's still a game. You can't just say "only 20% of its sales should count" because of some arbitrary notion of value and a hypothetical scenario, even if it's likely that it would sell less in said hypothetical scenario.
Beer Monkey
Member
Kilrogg said:
Actually, Wii Sports is worthless single-player. So basically, Wii Sports makes you buy a second Wiimote which makes you buy Wii Play because you aren't a moron.
Alcibiades
Member
Sony I'm not sure, but Microsoft does:border said:
I've seen these when I go to Best Buy:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...inata&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1218031265657
As long as those are being counted (Viva Pinata Party w/ Free Controller), then Wii Play should count as well.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
The bowling, golf and boxing (as a workout) are alright in single player. Nowhere near as fun, but still alright.beermonkey@tehbias said:
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
Well if Wii Sports isn't the most popular game of the generation, then it is Wii Play.
If we don't count Wii Play because of some fanboy vision, then the most popular game this generation is Wii Fit.
If we don't count Wii Fit, because it is not a game, and people buy it for the balance board and it should be counted as hardware; then the most popular game this gen is Mario Kart Wii.
If we don't count Mario Kart Wii because people buy it for the Wii Wheel, then the most popular game this gen is COD Modern Warfare.
=> COD4 is a non game.
If we don't count Wii Play because of some fanboy vision, then the most popular game this generation is Wii Fit.
If we don't count Wii Fit, because it is not a game, and people buy it for the balance board and it should be counted as hardware; then the most popular game this gen is Mario Kart Wii.
If we don't count Mario Kart Wii because people buy it for the Wii Wheel, then the most popular game this gen is COD Modern Warfare.
=> COD4 is a non game.
Beer Monkey
Member
Kilrogg said:
Meh. I disagree.
OK, you got me on that one.
MikeE21286
Member
Are people in here arguing that people are buying Wii Play and not the controller?
Not a damn person is buying that game if it doesn't come with a controller and is not an easy up-sell for employees at Best Buy, Gamestop, etc....
Not a damn person is buying that game if it doesn't come with a controller and is not an easy up-sell for employees at Best Buy, Gamestop, etc....
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I suppose I did, because I still don't see it.Kilrogg said:Really? Tennis and Boxing can be fun in single-player, and Bowling, Baseball and Golf require one Wiimote.
I want a Wii Sports+ for WM+. Boxing+ would be so cool
[EDIT]@squirrel: you missed the more obvious point
The Faceless Master
Member
lemme try this one out...cakefoo said:
Pretty good tie ratio for 360 users considering since it's been out some 360 owners bought a second, third or fourth console solely because of the red rings.
is that how it works?
seriously, the amount of people who bought another 360 because of the red rings or bought a ps3 only for bluray is miniscule.
viciouskillersquirrel said:
A massive surge in hardware sales. Month 17 was March 2008. That was the first non-holiday month over 700K, which from an historical standpoint is abso-freaking-lutely amazing as no other piece of hardware had gotten > 700K outside of launch or holidays to that point. The Wii now has three months outside of holidays > 700K, and the DS now has one (Jun-08), for reference.
Thanks for getting this data, jvm!
Even someone who bought the PS3 just for Blu-Ray would likely buy a few games after they got down to like $10 anyway, wouldn't they? I don't know of many people who would buy a game machine that hate games, regardless of its other functions...
On topic: Pretty good numbers across the board.
On topic: Pretty good numbers across the board.
Lyude77 said:
From my understanding, the PS3 was the most inexpensive Blu-Ray player for a long time post-launch, and it's still the most full featured player at its price. Why wouldn't someone who wants to watch movies, has no interest in games, and wants the best bang for their buck buy a PS3 only for non-gaming purposes?
viciouskillersquirrel said:
Beermonkey@thebias, even though he talked about the singleplayer modes being boring, was implying that you need a 2nd Wiimote for Wii Sports because it's meant to be played with other people. As I pointed out, only 2 Wii Sports games (Boxing and Tennis) require 2 or more Wiimotes to be played in multiplayer. Golf, Bowling and Baseball can be played with one Wiimote... Wait, no, actually, I think Baseball requires another Wiimote, since someone has to throw the ball... Unless there's a "batting-only" multiplayer mode? I don't remember, to be honest.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
Ah. My Wii came bundled with an extra Wiimote and nunchuck, so I never noticed.Kilrogg said:
ShockingAlberto
Member
No one's arguing anyone's buying it for the game solely.MikeE21286 said:
But most people are saying it doesn't matter what the intention is, it's still sold as game software with a pack-in accessory.
border said:
You have no way of knowing consumers don't enjoy the game. I have gotten more value out of Wii Play than I have out of Metroid Prime 3. Why? Because it's a great collection of minigames that play to the Wii's strengths and I love to switch between that and Wii Sports with my family. I would have paid $50 for it without the pack-in controller, just like I'd buy the next Wii Sportss game even if it wasn't coming with the M+.
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