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[Woo-Fu]

The problem with using AA to balance jets is that if it is highly effective vs. jets you might as well never get into a helicopter.

They gave a major buff to sam sites in a bf2 patch, specifically to counter jets and it ended up being murder on helicopters while only slightly affecting the jets.

 

[ghst]

against the regular infantry soldier jets should always be merciless harbingers of death, atleast in the right hands. make them harder to fly, but don't lower the potential ceiling.

a big problem with bc2 was its obsession with empowerment of every role, pandering to the I WANTS MINE console crowd who would sooner bee-line their copy to gamestop than recognize cause and effect. if you're a lowly foot soldier lolloping your ignorant ass out in the open without giving the due respect to the unholy masters of the sky, it is not your place to decide your fate.

 

[Binabik15]

I might be a pussy, but I don´t like the thought of playing against 32 snipers or jets. Attack choppers can be annoying enough.

How would a DSL3000 connection hold up with 64 players?

 

[Metalmurphy]

The problem with using AA to balance jets is that if it is highly effective vs. jets you might as well never get into a helicopter.

They gave a major buff to sam sites in a bf2 patch, specifically to counter jets and it ended up being murder on helicopters while only slightly affecting the jets.

BF2 was perfect before all the patches. All the patches just brought problems to the AA/Jets/Helicopters situation.

One patch made the missiles go in circles around other heat sources, another one made that missiles ALWAYS went through the blackhawk open doors, another one made them way too fast to avoid in Jets... meh. Vanilla BF2 is still the best.

 

[Pancakes]

BF2 was perfect before all the patches. All the patches just brought problems to the AA/Jets/Helicopters situation.

One patch made the missiles go in circles around other heat sources, another one made that missiles ALWAYS went through the blackhawk open doors, another one made them way too fast to avoid in Jets... meh. Vanilla BF2 is still the best.

IIRC wasn't dolphin diving a huge problem in vanilla BF2? I haven't played it in so long.

 

[FLEABttn]

How would a DSL3000 connection hold up with 64 players?

As long as you're not hosting a dedicated server on that, just fine.

Shit I was playing BF1942 back in the day on a worse connection with 64 people. It was glorious.

 

[Jtrizzy]

The first time a buddy roars overhead in a jet in 7.1 surround sound to carve a path towards an objective, I just might cry.

So you play BC2 on PS3 currently? We have a great crew, didn't know if you ever played.

 

[subversus]

Shit I was playing BF1942 back in the day on a worse connection with 64 people. It was glorious.

no destruction.

 

[FLEABttn]

no destruction.

This is true. Still, 3Mb down and 384Kb up should be more than enough.

 

[No_Style]

BF2 features being trotted out first for BF3 reveal. That's cute.

Tell me something new!

 

[DenogginizerOS]

So you play BC2 on PS3 currently? We have a great crew, didn't know if you ever played.

Yessir!

 

[Woo-Fu]

You can get rid of dolphin diving overnight by having it penalize the accuracy of the diver. Basically just have the benefits of the prone position applied gradually instead of instantly. Downside is it makes a lot more work for the server.

 

[No_Style]

Read the "Game" preview. How do people feel with the injection of more realism?

I know there are 1942 die-hards who already poo poo the idea of not being able to ride on the wings of planes, but these new features like "being knocked down by explosions" and momentum based running push BF series further away from that arcade-esque feel.

I would not be surprised to see them limit parachutes to 1 and have a "realistic" minimum distance before deployment at this rate. Which would drastically change options available to me.

As for the whole 64 (PC) vs 24 (Console) thing. Not a big deal for me. To me it's more like 32 (PC) vs (24 console) since I played 32 players far more frequently in BF2. I don't know about anyone else, but I've always felt BF2 was optimized for 32 players. It just didn't scale up well. Maybe BF3 will be different, but with the console factor, I'm willing to bet otherwise.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Read the "Game" preview. How do people feel with the injection of more realism?

I know there are 1942 die-hards who already poo poo the idea of not being able to ride on the wings of planes, but these new features like "being knocked down by explosions" and momentum based running push BF series further away from that arcade-esque feel.

I would not be surprised to see them limit parachutes to 1 and have a "realistic" minimum distance before deployment at this rate. Which would drastically change options available to me.

I honestly think a little more realism will be great. I hope it carries over to the weapon damage...weapons in BC: Vietnam were a bit more powerful than vanilla BC2 and it felt so much better.

So if you can drag wounded teammates, does this mean teammates can be wounded on the ground and still alive? Sorta like a "last stand" kinda thing?

This is also one of those games that I will upgrade my comp specifically to run. Haven't done that since Half-Life 2.

 

[ShOcKwAvE]

Here's another feature I want removed, and I know a lot of you will disagree.

Squad spawning.

You should not be able to spawn on your team members. Too often, someone finds a hiding spot and lets their mates spawn endlessly unless you're lucky enough to find and kill the source. I suppose it was designed to promote teamwork, but it's cheap and easily abused.

Edit - Honestly, I don't even like spawning at captured flags. If I drive my tank to a flag and kill all five guys protecting it, I think it should immediately turn neutral. They shouldn't have time to respawn and come at me again. I've beaten them, it should be mine to take.

Dieing should have more consequence than just waiting 15 seconds to come back. You should have to start at the uncap.

Like I said, many of you probably disagree. I'm just venting.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

Here's another feature I want removed, and I know a lot of you will disagree.

Squad spawning.

You should not be able to spawn on your team members. Too often, someone finds a hiding spot and lets their mates spawn endlessly unless you're lucky enough to find and kill the source. I suppose it was designed to promote teamwork, but it's cheap and easily abused.

Nope. Squad spawning promotes teamwork and can be countered by patrolling and spotting.

 

[shintoki]

They just have to beef up counter-plane measures. Make AA more effective and possibly add in AI AA around incappable spawns to prevent base-rape.

Bullshit, if you get pushed back to your base. You deserve it.

I'm down for better counter measures. But they shouldn't be givens either. Something like controlling X point on a map, allows you to control a massive AA gun that devastates air support. I think BC had a good idea too, with the Trace darts+Missles. Get stuck with one as a Heli and you deserve to die.

Yeah, I'm pretty much the type who hates the get out of free jail cards. Buildings don't need to give a warning before coming down. You go out in the open against a chopper, you shouldn't live.

 

[Spookie]

but these new features like "being knocked down by explosions" and momentum based running push BF series further away from that arcade-esque feel

I can live with that. I fucking hated how people could simply run through tank shells like the Terminator.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Nope. Squad spawning promotes teamwork and can be countered by patrolling and spotting.

There should be a limit...having a squad captain in BF2 gave one person that specific responsibility. I like the flexibility that squad spawning has, though...it would be cool if you had to parachute in on your squadmates.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

The BFBC2 cover featured a soldier carrying an M4 as well, and there was no M4 in BFBC2.

The M416 and the M16 are both in BC2. The difference between the M4 and M416 is that the M4 uses Direct impingement whereas the m416 is operated by a gas piston. Same gun, different internals, M416 > M4.

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned that I want to see, is Gore. I want to see those destructible environments translated to player characters. As a medic, I shouldn't be able to revive someone who just got blasted by a tank shell, that guy should be in parts all over the place.

You should not be able to spawn on your team members. Too often, someone finds a hiding spot and lets their mates spawn endlessly unless you're lucky enough to find and kill the source. I suppose it was designed to promote teamwork, but it's cheap and easily abused.

Getting rid of squad spawning is insanity. It's literally the BEST spawn system in any game. It must stay. Also, lucky enough? Patrolling your base, spotting people, motion mines, etc... If you are letting people spawn in your base, it's your own fault.

 

[No_Style]

You can get rid of dolphin diving overnight by having it penalize the accuracy of the diver. Basically just have the benefits of the prone position applied gradually instead of instantly. Downside is it makes a lot more work for the server.

Black Ops does this. I think Black Ops resolved most of the sprint to prone and drop shot problems already.

Granted, I haven't played enough of it to make the most accurate assessment, but from my experience and as that video demonstrates, it doesn't allow you to shoot and reduce your profile to an absolute minimum immediately like in the past.

 

[Stallion Free]

Another way to balance jets is to stop making the carriers and airfields jet factorys churning out a jet ever 90 seconds. If jets are powerful, there should a be a deep penalty for wasting it. Same goes for attack helicopters. Transport choppers like Blackhawks can respawn at a much faster rate because they are actually used for transportation and transportation on large maps (64 player) is important.

Also, this is modern combat. Don't give us bitch rocket launchers that require a magical fucking dart to lock on. There are plenty of rocket launchers that are Anti-air capable that Dice just ignored in BC2.

 

[subversus]

So if you can drag wounded teammates, does this mean teammates can be wounded on the ground and still alive? Sorta like a "last stand" kinda thing?

see KZ 2-3.

 

[shintoki]

Another way to balance jets is to stop making the carriers and airfields jet factorys churning out a jet ever 90 seconds. If jets are powerful, there should a be a deep penalty for wasting it. Same goes for attack helicopters. Transport choppers like Blackhawks can respawn at a much faster rate because they are actually used for transportation and transportation on large maps (64 player) is important.

They could just make pilots require skill. None of that bullshit where they can go in a circle and avoid any amount of locked on missiles. Where they actually have to pay attention and dodge according to lock on directions or something.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

There should be a limit...having a squad captain in BF2 gave one person that specific responsibility. I like the flexibility that squad spawning has, though...it would be cool if you had to parachute in on your squadmates.

I think if a team is lazy on patrolling the areas around their base when defending, then I think they deserve to be overrun by squads spawning closeby. If you add in a visual cue to the squad spawning, it will dramatically decrease the usefulness of it and will thus decrease teamwork.

 

[1-D_FTW]

against the regular infantry soldier jets should always be merciless harbingers of death, atleast in the right hands. make them harder to fly, but don't lower the potential ceiling.

a big problem with bc2 was its obsession with empowerment of every role, pandering to the I WANTS MINE console crowd who would sooner bee-line their copy to gamestop than recognize cause and effect. if you're a lowly foot soldier lolloping your ignorant ass out in the open without giving the due respect to the unholy masters of the sky, it is not your place to decide your fate.

And yet they basically grounded the apache helicopters in the gulf war unless they had guaranteed free reign because of how easy they were to get shot down. Real planes and helicopters looping overhead against an enemy with even moderate equipment (which a balanced video game is supposed to have) would be a death trap for the pilots. Let's not pretend these things aren't vastly stronger in video game form than real life.

As for balance? Please. Give me a break. It's a video game. You have to have balance. This is not a flight sim game. It's a game. The best games are rock-paper-scissors. BF doesn't do this. All the more maddening because real life is rock-paper-scissor. No army/air force is flying these things brazenly over a heavily armed opposition site. They'd be wiped out in short order.

 

[dralla]

Online Multiplayer:

* Competitive: 64-Player (PC) 24-Player (Console)




:lol

 

[wwm0nkey]

Ok so we have

Explosions knocking people down (good people should fall over if they are in the radius of a tank explosion)

Mounting weapons (awesome)

I really like these 2 features.

 

[No_Style]

Another way to balance jets is to stop making the carriers and airfields jet factorys churning out a jet ever 90 seconds. If jets are powerful, there should a be a deep penalty for wasting it. Same goes for attack helicopters. Transport choppers like Blackhawks can respawn at a much faster rate because they are actually used for transportation and transportation on large maps (64 player) is important.

This man knows what's right. Frequency of jets and attack helicopters is much more of a problem than the lethality of vehicles themselves. Infrequent spawn times + the need to resupply ammo should be more than enough.

Also, I've always wanted mounting of vehicles as well. No more instant teleport into driver seat. But that may be a bit too much?

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

Ok so we have

Explosions knocking people down (good people should fall over if they are in the radius of a tank explosion)

Mounting weapons (awesome)

I really like these 2 features.

Dragging wounded players to cover. This is awesome as a medic as now I can drag my wounded out of the line of fire and not revive them when a bunch of people are shooting our way. Plenty of times where I have been bitched at for a bad revive. Let me throw a man over my shoulder and run around the corner for the revive.

 

[Stallion Free]

Squad spawning needs to return to BF2 style where it relies on the Squad leader. BC2 style gets absolutely ridiculous where a decent squad can remain behind lines eternally because of the spawn time + only one out of 4 people needing to stay alive. If a whole squad could get behind your base, you had to wipe them out entirely within about 20 seconds before they could just start respawning on whoever was left.

The squad leader with a larger squad makes it much more interesting. We have 64 players so we better not be limited to 4 player squads.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

I see whiners have been shut up by a few simple numbers. I hope it stays that way.

 

[derFeef]

Squad spawning needs to return to BF2 style where it relies on the Squad leader. BC2 style gets absolutely ridiculous where a decent squad can remain behind lines eternally because of the spawn time + only one out of 4 people needing to stay alive. If a whole squad could get behind your base, you had to wipe them out entirely within about 20 seconds before they could just start respawning on whoever was left.

The squad leader with a larger squad makes it much more interesting. We have 64 players so we better not be limited to 4 player squads.

Nothing more to add. Make it so, DICE.

 

[Dead Prince]

pc for me <3

 

[LiK]

OP is well done.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

Squad spawning needs to return to BF2 style where it relies on the Squad leader. BC2 style gets absolutely ridiculous where a decent squad can remain behind lines eternally because of the spawn time + only one out of 4 people needing to stay alive. If a whole squad could get behind your base, you had to wipe them out entirely within about 20 seconds before they could just start respawning on whoever was left.

The squad leader with a larger squad makes it much more interesting. We have 64 players so we better not be limited to 4 player squads.

It's really not a problem though. And for consoles anyways, unless they change the way squad organization works, I would HATE only being able to spawn with the leader, who is randomly chosen. Going back to BF2/BC1 style spawning would be regressing in my opinion.

In all my matches of Bad Company 2, I have never had an issue with someone hiding and being a spawn point. It's really easy to figure out and if you are smart, you have motion mines out anyways and can see where everyone is moving.

If anything, keep the ability to spawn on your squad, but not just instantly next to them. Make it an airdrop from the sky where you are exposed to the other team.

 

[ultron87]

This man knows what's right. Frequency of jets and attack helicopters is much more of a problem than the lethality of vehicles themselves. Infrequent spawn times + the need to resupply ammo should be more than enough.

But then your team can get really screwed over when Johnny McWantsToFly grabs a jet and plows it into a mountainside in 30 seconds.

 

[The Faceless Master]

There should be a limit...having a squad captain in BF2 gave one person that specific responsibility. I like the flexibility that squad spawning has, though...it would be cool if you had to parachute in on your squadmates.

easy abuse when it comes to getting to high places...

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

easy abuse when it comes to getting to high places...

If everything is destructible, there won't be any high place safe enough!

 

[The Faceless Master]

The M416 and the M16 are both in BC2. The difference between the M4 and M416 is that the M4 uses Direct impingement whereas the m416 is operated by a gas piston. Same gun, different internals, M416 > M4.

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned that I want to see, is Gore. I want to see those destructible environments translated to player characters. As a medic, I shouldn't be able to revive someone who just got blasted by a tank shell, that guy should be in parts all over the place.

bullshit! you know if you could run to all 5 pieces and stitch them back together you would! FOR THE PoINTS!!!

Getting rid of squad spawning is insanity. It's literally the BEST spawn system in any game. It must stay. Also, lucky enough? Patrolling your base, spotting people, motion mines, etc... If you are letting people spawn in your base, it's your own fault.

exactly.

If everything is destructible, there won't be any high place safe enough!

it's not about being safe, i'm thinking purely about getting to high places basically for free...

 

[Fox318]

For some reason I'm not excited by this. I can't help but feel that Dice is gonna burn PC gamers...

 

[faridmon]

BC2 is my favourite game this gen! I say bring it on son! My body is ready.

 

[Anton Sugar]

easy abuse when it comes to getting to high places...

True. But if BF3 is anything like BF2, there won't be an altitude limit. Plenty of times in BF2 our squad would get in a Blackhawk, fly up a few hundred meters (I think...I just remember the altitude reaching 300 or something and that was "good" for the jumps), going to the enemy base, and all parachuting to sabotage their equipment. Could also land on top of buildings, etc.

Really, people being in high places wasn't ever a problem, because you had the commander who could spot everyone and call in mortars on annoying snipers.

I wonder if the commander will be in BF3...?

 

[Kibbles]

I'm looking forward to the sound of Frosbite 2 and hearing/feeling the rumble of a Jet off in the distance and then swoosh by overhead on the battlefield. Gonna be tight yo.

I'm hoping consoles at least bumps it up to 32 then.

 

[Stallion Free]

Whoever created the squad in BF2 was squad leader, it was't random. For me and a group of buddies, larger squads + 1 leader is a lot more interesting.

Also, while we are talking about squads, are we getting commanders back too? They make an awful lot of sense for 64 player games and a good commander can really pull a team together. All marked targets and enemies can show up on the commander map and he can give squad waypoints based on the info relayed. Also, he could call in UAVs that would then mark all enemies for his team in the area (exactly as they are spotted in BC2).

 

[Anton Sugar]

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned that I want to see, is Gore. I want to see those destructible environments translated to player characters. As a medic, I shouldn't be able to revive someone who just got blasted by a tank shell, that guy should be in parts all over the place.

Some gore would be nice...did BF2 make it so if you were headshot/killed by an explosion, you couldn't be revived? I feel like I remember trying to revive certain people and not being able to...

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

bullshit! you know if you could run to all 5 pieces and stitch them back together you would! FOR THE PoINTS!!!


exactly.




it's not about being safe, i'm thinking purely about getting to high places basically for free...

You know I would, I always take care of my wounded, whatever condition they may be in!

Ideally, BF3 would have the spec-ops grappling hooks from the Special Forces BF2 expansion, so I could get to all these crazy places anyways!

 

[No_Style]

I wonder if the commander will be in BF3...?

I hope for the return of commander and ordinance! The question is: will people give a damn what the commander says or does?

 

[shintoki]

This man knows what's right. Frequency of jets and attack helicopters is much more of a problem than the lethality of vehicles themselves. Infrequent spawn times + the need to resupply ammo should be more than enough.

Also, I've always wanted mounting of vehicles as well. No more instant teleport into driver seat. But that may be a bit too much?

Then you'll just get more people camping for them.

Now that is something they need to add in. An auto kick for camping for vehicles in your base. I don't know how it will work, but it needs to be in.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

I hope for the return of commander and ordinance! The question is: will people give a damn what the commander says or does?

If you get points for it, sure people will. Commander Order Completed +100 XP!