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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK SPOILERS* |OT| Season 3 - Sundays on HBO [Read the OP]

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S

Sendero

Member
Wow, glad I wasn't around to read about the spoiler everyone is talking about, although some of the residual comments sort of give a vibe of what was being discussed. Meh.



Also, by reading/watching stuff like the Gendry's actor Q&A you sort of figure out where the general story is going (+ someone said that Charles Dance -aka Tywin- talked about future events in an interview) .


Double meh..




But if I may just want to add a random speculation: I just saw the official Season 1+2 recap video (in preparation), and recalled that Little Finger is the one that mentions that Tyrion was the owner of the (Valyrian?) dagger used by the Bran's failed assassin. I also vaguely recall that he was the original owner and lose it in a bet or something like that.

If that's the case, then it's pretty obvious that him and/or someone in Council aware of such fact, planned it. And following the typical scenario, would be surprised if the intention all along wasn't for the assassin to fail (so the Starks could find the dagger, and start the war with the Lannisters, whom clearly were the most powerful players at that point).




Extra: Contrary to the general opinion, I personally do enjoy most of the reader's comments and wish I could have joined the discussion earlier, but come on: We viewers are always on the look out for clues that help us with our little theories. So please always keep that in mind when you post stuff.
 
K

kellycandthedragons

Banned
tumblr_mbvo6fziOE1ru8vb3o1_500.jpg
 
Q

qa_engineer

Member
I was in Rhode Island last week for a memorial weekend wedding event and I was so upset at the thought of missing an episode. So glad it was pushed back to this weekend (tonight). FISTPUMP.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
So hyped for the next episode.

So far we've gone unspoiled (mostly).

The two week gap has gone better than I thought it would at least.
 
B

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
Vashetti said:
So hyped for the next episode.

So far we've gone unspoiled (mostly).

The two week gap has gone better than I thought it would at least.
Click to expand...

Lucky for you, you missed that big ass spoiler a few days ago that got someone banned.
 
F

Forkball

Member
Something epic always happens on episode 9.

Season 1: Ned's death
Season 2: Blackwater battle

That means this year... Ned will die again at another Blackwater battle.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
Forkball said:
Something epic always happens on episode 9.

Season 1: Ned's death
Season 2: Blackwater battle

That means this year... Ned will die again at another Blackwater battle.
Click to expand...

I can't predict anything big though.

There's been no lead up to anything massive like previous episode 9s, like you said.
 
R

robotzombie

Member
Was this topic around in season 1? I'm just wondering if anyone was going around predicting that Ned was gonna be executed or if everyone had no idea
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
New Episode Tonight: The Rains of Castamere

Synopsis said:
Robb presents himself to Walder Frey, and Edmure meets his bride. Jon faces his harshest test yet. Bran discovers a new gift. Daario and Jorah debate how to take Yunkai. House Frey joins with House Tully.
Click to expand...
 
T

The One Who Knocks

Member
Sendero said:
But if I may just want to add a random speculation: I just saw the official Season 1+2 recap video (in preparation), and recalled that Little Finger is the one that mentions that Tyrion was the owner of the (Valyrian?) dagger used by the Bran's failed assassin. I also vaguely recall that he was the original owner and lose it in a bet or something like that.

If that's the case, then it's pretty obvious that him and/or someone in Council aware of it planned it. And following your typical scenario, would be surprised if the intention all along wasn't for the assassin to fail (so the Starks could find the dagger, and start the war with the Lannisters, whom clearly were the most powerful players at that point).
Click to expand...

I...I don't know, and I can't really agree with this seeming plausible at all. It seems like a ridiculously convoluted plan. It's been at least a year since I've watched season one but the only reason it failed was because of Bran's direwolf intervening while everybody else was distracted by a fire wasn't it? Likewise if Bran is murdered the Lannisters aren't framed because the dagger isn't found (although at this point we'd be getting into hypotheticals and anything could happen). There are some complex plots on the show, but most of them seem rather logical. I wouldn't really be a fan of the idea that the entire war was all the result of Littlefinger starting the war in an effort to seize further power even if I do agree that it would allign with his desire for chaos. Likewise, why even murder Bran and not somebody else?

I've no idea who it was that won the dagger from Tyrion, and I presume it wasn't really important (since the storyline has been dropped for two seasons by now), but I always thought it was heavily implied that it was Jaime and Cersei trying to prevent Bran from revealing what happened to him. I'm not really sure how I'd feel about the failure all being a part of some grand plan but I guess if it's in the recap it must have some relevance.

EDIT:
Steelyuhas said:
New Episode Tonight: The Rains of Castamere
Click to expand...

It's been too long, I can't wait. I must say that I have absolutely no idea where they're going this or the next episode in terms of a climax. Based on the synopsis:
It surely cannot be the attack on Casterly Rock unless that's episode ten but even then that seems like it'd require a bit of a time jump. I guess the Jon Snow part is related to the planned attack on Castle Black so I can see that plausbily being this episode's large event and then Daenary's assault on Yunkai for the final but even then I'm unsure. It seems odd to have two battles so close by and then the title of the episode would have no relevance to either event.
 
S

Sendero

Member
The One Who Knocks said:
I...I don't know, and I can't really agree with this seeming plausible at all. It seems like a ridiculously convoluted plan.
Click to expand...
On that, I agree. Even more, Little Finger do not strike me like someone like would directly request an assassination, and instead someone that "makes lemonade" (ie. Rose being silenced by proxy); but can't say the same for other characters.

In any case, that's an story thread that probably won't be picked up again in the near future future.
 
K

kellycandthedragons

Banned
The One Who Knocks said:
snip
It seems odd to have two battles so close by and then the title of the episode would have no relevance to either event.
Click to expand...

Well, if Jon attacks Castle Black is the climax, Rains of Castamere would be related to the episode because it's dealing with rebellion. "And who are you," the proud lord said, "that I must bow so low?" That line seems to fit the wildlings.
Then there's "In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws. Mine are long and sharp, my lord--as long and sharp as yours"
The lion part obviously doesn't fit because it was written for the Lannisters. But Jon sword is called LONGCLAW. Coat of gold could refer to the coloring of the sheath I guess, with red obviously referring to bloodstains.

"Now the rains weep over his hall with not a soul to hear"
The night's watch is already low on men. A successful wildling attack could completely wipe out the rest of their forces. Rains of Castamere would totally fit an attack on Castle Black, if that's the climax
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Funky Papa said:
Odd summary.

It looks like a very spread out episode with even more character development/politics instead of the typically spectacular Ep9.
Click to expand...
To be fair (Synposis discussion, no spoilers:)
the first season's ep9 was spread out and featured multiple stories/character development too; so structure wise this isn't anything that the show hasn't done before. Last season's penultimate ep was different, focusing on one big story event
 
G

Gigarator

Member
Well we had Stannis name the three usurpers in the last episode, something could easily come of that tonight. You just have to look at what happened to Renly to see how sudden the Lord of Light deals out his justice.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
The One Who Knocks said:
Likewise, why even murder Bran and not somebody else?
Click to expand...
If Littlefinger planned it to start chaos, who else would be assassinated? Ned's already coming to King's Landing where he doesn't need an assassin. He's not gonna kill the girls because nobody's gonna start a war over them. He's not gonna kill Catelyn because he loves her. He's not gonna kill Rob because he's the dude he's counting on starting the war. All that's left is Bran and Rickon, and Bran already had a suspicious fall. I'm sure that if Bran's assassination was successful he would have had another way to make it seem like the lannister's doing. Hell, he might not have even needed to pin it on anybody, just kill the kid to put the Starks on edge while they're already torn apart by the appointment to King's Landing.
 
T

The One Who Knocks

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";60765977]If Littlefinger planned it to start chaos, who else would be assassinated? Ned's already coming to King's Landing where he doesn't need an assassin. He's not gonna kill the girls because nobody's gonna start a war over them. He's not gonna kill Catelyn because he loves her. He's not gonna kill Rob because he's the dude he's counting on starting the war. All that's left is Bran and Rickon, and Bran already had a suspicious fall. I'm sure that if Bran's assassination was successful he would have had another way to make it seem like the lannister's doing. Hell, he might not have even needed to pin it on anybody, just kill the kid to put the Starks on edge while they're already torn apart by the appointment to King's Landing.[/QUOTE]

Hmm. Quite convincing and, now that you mention Bran's fall, that would be a likely reason for the Starks to further suspect the Lannisters considering how prominent they were in Winterfell. As for 'who else', I was thinking that outright murdering Ned would have been a wiser choice considering how he's the head of the family and that would attain the most volatile response or, alternatively, Robb since he is the oldest child who would have inherited Winterfell and I imagine that murdering the heir would have been met with a similar response. It sits easier with me as for why it would be Bran and it seems more plausible now than it did initially given your response; I guess I'm just not really fond of the idea that everything was all part of a grand plan (or a general plan, not even the specifics) and that's making me resilient to the idea. Given everything we know, it just seems like a far simpler situation if the Lannisters organised the assassination and the direwolf's presence botched it.

KellyC, very good point on the relevance of the title even if I'm still skeptical considering how much it has been referred to as a Lannister song. I guess it could be applied though. (synopsis related)
It would certainly be a climactic moment deserving of a penultimate episode considering what has happened thus far.

EDIT: At the below, I wasn't saying it was proven by any means. It's never been outright confirmed as to who sent the assassin to Bran. The main reason I had suspected such was due to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCpZpWOFXrA (even though this all applies when it's solely about him being pushed out of the window too) which occurs the episode after the assassination attempt while they had a large motivation for not wanting Bran to wake up and reveal what he saw.
 
K

kellycandthedragons

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";60765977]If Littlefinger planned it to start chaos, who else would be assassinated? Ned's already coming to King's Landing where he doesn't need an assassin. He's not gonna kill the girls because nobody's gonna start a war over them. He's not gonna kill Catelyn because he loves her. He's not gonna kill Rob because he's the dude he's counting on starting the war. All that's left is Bran and Rickon, and Bran already had a suspicious fall. I'm sure that if Bran's assassination was successful he would have had another way to make it seem like the lannister's doing. Hell, he might not have even needed to pin it on anybody, just kill the kid to put the Starks on edge while they're already torn apart by the appointment to King's Landing.[/QUOTE]

Plus...Implied by who? Catlyn "could never love a child that did nothing to me" Stark? Ned "rushed to judge Jaime guilty" Stark? Jaime "considered safety of innocents more important than blindly protecting the king" Lannister? Littlefinger "I warned you not to trust me" Balish? All of the people who pointed us in that direction have been shown to be either flawed or more honorable than we assumed. The strongest evidence we have for it being Cersei and Jaime is Cersei worrying if the hand was close to the truth, if I remember correctly. And even that isn't proof they killed him. They weren't even sure he knew anything. At least Jaime wasn't. We got word from the lady we now know to be BAT#%^! INSANE, possibly paranoid, that it was them. Let's look at the scenes when we were led to believe it was the Lannisters that sent the assassin for Bran.

1)Littlefinger says he lost the knife to Tyrion. Oh? You mean the guy who betrayed our hero? The guy who it was implied was lying and flat out admitted to thriving in chaos?
2) Cersei asking Jaime what he was thinking? Well first of all that eliminates Cersei because if she'd been involved she wouldn't be flipping out at Jaime. Jaime says "I was thinking of us" but he also displays his typical season 1 arrogance when he says "I think we can outfox a ten year old." If he's so confident he can outsmart him, why bother trying to send an assassin to finish the job?
3)Jaime saying "the boy won't talk, and if he does I'll kill him?" Well, admittedly this is pretty heavily implying it, but it seems so weird to me that he would send an assassin. He tells his father he didn't kill Ned because "it wouldn't have been clean" and we now know that he saved kings landing. So two new revelations since then: he cares a lot about how people see him and he has some humanity in him. Doesn't fit that he would send an assassin of all things if he planned to kill him.
4)Ned is sour over the way the Lannisters have behaved in the past, and his powers of reasoning may be hampered by that. We have since seen how rigid he could be. Plus I'm pretty sure he only thinks it was the Lannisters because Catlyn came to him saying "it was them!" If he had just continued on without her information, he would have stopped at "You and Jaime are lovers." instead of "You and Jaime are lovers and my son caught you so you tried to have him killed."
Look at the confrontation scene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6MZvK02vX0
At what point does she confirm that they tried to kill Bran? She admits to the incest, NOT the assassination. She just kind of looks at him. PLUS, she says "Jaime would have killed him." Um, what? Jaime would have killed THE KING? Not, I don't know, send an assassin while he was on guard duty and just happen to be overpowered? So Jaime's the kind of man to swing the sword himself, eh?

I challenge you to find definitive evidence that it was Cersei and Jaime that sent the assassin. It was heavily implied to be them, but we did not get a solid confession at any point. It was just kind of dropped and assumed to be the case. I'm willing to be that everything you will find can be disputed as circumstantial. We take it to be proof because we entered in with that assumption. The conclusion preceded the evidence.

It was just kind of dropped because bigger things started happening. Ned dies, Arya has to leave, Robb goes to war...with all these things that happened following the attempt, Catlyn never had a moment to breathe and think about where the knife really came from. What we know of Jaime and Cersei now makes it kind of strange that they'd kill Bran. Ned assumes it was them because Catlyn (who hasn't had time to fully think things through) colors his perspective of the evidence. Just like the Starks in general have colored our perspective of it.
 
K

kellycandthedragons

Banned
Rorschach said:
If Ned's biggest "flaw" was having seen a guy stab another guy in the back, then he indeed was a great man.
Click to expand...

Except that was not what I said. His flaw was being a rigid man who refused to compromise his morals even when it put other people in danger. This rigid adherence to rules (something Stannis has as well) is a flaw because it leads to doing shit like assuming Jaime had no other reason than cowardice for breaking his vow. It makes him judgmental.
I would argue that if it wasn't for him being such a mindlessly honorable man, Jaime wouldn't have pushed Bran because he wouldn't have had such a chip on his shoulder about being called Kingslayer. The story of why he did it would have been known and he wouldn't have spiraled into the reckless nihilism he exhibited until a few episodes ago.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
I think had Ned sided with Renly and Littlefinger, he would have lived and none of this would have happened.

I genuinely think Littlefinger was prepared to work with him, but he sensed weakness in Ned and chose to side with the Lannisters.
 
G

GameofThrones

Neo Member
Gigarator said:
Well we had Stannis name the three usurpers in the last episode, something could easily come of that tonight. You just have to look at what happened to Renly to see how sudden the Lord of Light deals out his justice.
Click to expand...

If leeches turn out to be that effective murder weapons though (rather than causing an annoying itch or something), then all he has to do is keep on leeching Gendry until everybody is dead!

- The Usurper Danerys Targaryen
- The Usurper Tywin Lannister
etc etc.

Maybe that's the big thing this season. Stannis kills everyone episode 9 and sits on the throne episode 10. :p
 
C

Cyan

Banned
GameofThrones said:
If leeches turn out to be that effective though, then all he has to do is keep on leeching Gendry until everybody is dead!

- The Usurper Danerys Targaryen
- The Usurper Tywin Lannister
etc etc.

Maybe that's the big thing this season. Stannis kills everyone episode 9 and sits on the throne episode 10. :p
Click to expand...

Yeah, that would be way overpowered.

Though I would love to see Joffrey spontaneously burst into flames while sitting on the Iron Throne.
 
G

GameofThrones

Neo Member
Cyan said:
Yeah, that would be way overpowered.

Though I would love to see Joffrey spontaneously burst into flames while sitting on the Iron Throne.
Click to expand...
Too kind. He deserves the Theon treatment!

(kidding, kidding...torture is never the answer....)
...
(although with Joffrey it would be so tempting)
 
T

The One Who Knocks

Member
GameofThrones said:
If leeches turn out to be that effective murder weapons though (rather than causing an annoying itch or something), then all he has to do is keep on leeching Gendry until everybody is dead!

- The Usurper Danerys Targaryen
- The Usurper Tywin Lannister
etc etc.

Maybe that's the big thing this season. Stannis kills everyone episode 9 and sits on the throne episode 10. :p
Click to expand...

There's probably a cooldown timer like the Shadow Assassins (but let's hope not, I would gladly accept Stannis sitting on the throne in the next two episodes).
 
G

GameofThrones

Neo Member
The One Who Knocks said:
There's probably a cooldown timer like the Shadow Assassins (but let's hope not, I would gladly accept Stannis sitting on the throne in the next two episodes).
Click to expand...

Lol, would still be pretty overpowered though. Then again, I was never a fan of the original Shadow baby black magic....happened out of nowhere and just as I was starting to like Renly. :(
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
Cyan said:
Yeah, that would be way overpowered.

Though I would love to see Joffrey spontaneously burst into flames while sitting on the Iron Throne.
Click to expand...
I'm voting for a more comedic crush to death. He starts putting those Dragon skull in the throne room again and one of them falls on him. Maybe his crossbow goes off and goes up through is chin into his skull.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
Gigarator said:
Well we had Stannis name the three usurpers in the last episode, something could easily come of that tonight. You just have to look at what happened to Renly to see how sudden the Lord of Light deals out his justice.
Click to expand...

It's probably going to be that they all 3 die and you're left to kind of wonder whether that black magic did it or not. I suppose though if they do all die you won't wonder all that much, since the shadow baby was so powerful and you saw that with your own eyes. I kind of wish it was a bit questionable what was happening. Like they hinted at the shadow baby and then Renly's dead. They hint at these 3, then in upcoming episodes they all bite the bullet and you're sitting there wondering.

Part of me hopes it happens soon because fuck Joffrey, another part of me hopes it doesn't because <3 Robb and the last part of me doesn't give a shit about the Greyjoy asshole.
 
D

dubq

Member
Cyan said:
I thought they've already said it's going to go for 7 seasons total.
Click to expand...
"They" haven't said anything. One singular producer has speculated on it. I have to wonder if Doegler is even familiar with the source material to even suggest that seven seasons would be enough. Probably just a typical executive looking to get their ROI $$$ before the inevitable decline.
 
A

a Master Ninja

Member
I can't shake the feeling that book readers are rubbing their hands together, just waiting to drink our bitter tears over some event that will happen before this season ends. I'm scared...
 
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