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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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On the more recent subject of "Very Japanese", racist or not, you have to assume that a lot of new readers have no idea what that means. You've got to back that up with an explanation. Otherwise, it's lazy. It's the reviewer's job to translate their broad, vague feelings into something that is meaningful and understood by readers.
Even here, one reviewer viewed "very japanese" as a good thing, another, as a bad thing. If it's not a widely understood concept, either back it up or don't use it at all. Even a term like "janky", depending on the context with which it's used, needs to be explained. A game being "janky" can refer to the controls, the camera, graphical glitches, frame rate, and all sorts of issues.
On the subject of game reviewers being bought/sold/slave to PR: It's possible, but 9 out-of 10 times, an ignorant review is based on either the writer being too lazy or too busy. With SimCity, a lot of them played it before the servers were open, and most of them for only a short amount of time. They couldn't possibly have seen the server issues, and most of them didn't play long enough to encounter severe AI/Traffic issues. This is why I'm always wary of early reviews. It's not like a movie where a reviewer can go to a premiere and review a movie before the general public has seen it. Online games are impacted by the mere fact that they ARE online, and should be reviewed as such.
Even here, one reviewer viewed "very japanese" as a good thing, another, as a bad thing. If it's not a widely understood concept, either back it up or don't use it at all. Even a term like "janky", depending on the context with which it's used, needs to be explained. A game being "janky" can refer to the controls, the camera, graphical glitches, frame rate, and all sorts of issues.
On the subject of game reviewers being bought/sold/slave to PR: It's possible, but 9 out-of 10 times, an ignorant review is based on either the writer being too lazy or too busy. With SimCity, a lot of them played it before the servers were open, and most of them for only a short amount of time. They couldn't possibly have seen the server issues, and most of them didn't play long enough to encounter severe AI/Traffic issues. This is why I'm always wary of early reviews. It's not like a movie where a reviewer can go to a premiere and review a movie before the general public has seen it. Online games are impacted by the mere fact that they ARE online, and should be reviewed as such.
Paul Alexander
Member
...and?
I'm happy my story will come out, but it was a while ago that it all happened. While I feel that I was in the right, and my co-workers backed me up, I still hope I don't stir up problems for people who don't deserve it. Collateral damage seems to happen in these instances. Either way, the story needed to be told.
Lord_Nergal
Member
He's anti-Reddit. He points to sub-reddits like r/mensrights when he wants to disregard reddit entirely.
Paul Alexander
Member
They're done mostly to ensure the review copies don't leave anyone's sight. It's not a great way to review a game.
But I've attended those events, and have been left alone to play at my own pace. No one has attempted to control the experience.
Eh all you can do is tell the story, you can't worry too much about collateral damage, because that's out of your control. and it's better for people to know than not know. Journalists face that ethical dilemma constantly when publishing and reporting stories that could be potentially damaging to others who are not directly involved with the source story. As long as it's all true you did what you had to do and reported it because it needed to be known is how I view it.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Yup! Sometimes the only way to fairly review a game like MGS4 is to be flown out to Japan to hang out with Kojima.
Paul Alexander
Member
That game came out 5 years ago. Name a game in 2012 that was reviewed in this way.
Lord_Nergal
Member
You hear that guys? Past mistakes don't matter!
Gies is picking a journalism fight with John Walker of Rock Paper Shotgun? That should go well for him.
Paul Alexander
Member
I quoted someone who insinuated that this is still a common practice, with zero evidence to back it up.
Past mistakes do matter. The reason it's been acknowledged by outlets, and doesn't really happen anymore, is because of the appearance of impropriety. But good try!
There is a difference between games are not reviewed this way, something you stated, and you didn´t search for a game reviewed this way in 2012.
funkystudent
Member
God damn it Polygon writers.
You are not going to get jobs as community managers if you keep pissing off the internet like this.
You are not going to get jobs as community managers if you keep pissing off the internet like this.
Paul Alexander
Member
I said "nope" to a person who insinuated it's still a common practice, which it isn't, and for good reason. I've clarified this statement twice now. Anything else?
Black Ops 2. European press was flown out to the UK, I think.
This. A million times this. Air out the dirty laundry, and hopefully some of those publishing giants will have to think about their practices a bit more...
Paul Alexander
Member
It's so weird that this is lorded around this thread like some smoking gun.
BREAKING: GAMES JOURNALIST REAALY, REALLY ENJOYS GAEMZ
It looks like we are missing your non-zero evidence to back your claims up. Besides that, nothing.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
You really don't see a problem with the dancing with Skyrim GIF?
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
They could at least act a little more professional geeez.
Paul Alexander
Member
Nearly every game site worth its salt has an ethics disclaimer that they notify readers in a review when a game is reviewed at a press event. These practices are a matter of public record. You can find the "evidence" in 0.5 seconds.
He's very dishonest. The God Hand conspiracy was something he invented without any actual basis purely because he couldn't accept holding the minority viewpoint among game reviewers on Vanquish. To him, making up nonsense and demeaning other games reviewers made more sense than simply accepting his opinion was not widely shared.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Listen dude, I'm not going to do all your work for you, but a quick Google search shows that review events were held for Halo 3, Halo ODST, GTA 4, Modern Warfare 2, MW3, BLOPS, BLOPS 2 etc.
Or hell, just go to Polygon who has no problem attending review events:
http://www.polygon.com/game/call-of-duty-black-ops-2/2217
It seems you've already picked your side, so feel free to pretend these things don't happen. You're also either ignorant to this issue, or lying about it. Which is it?
The naivity is strong in this one?
Paul Alexander
Member
There are no "sides" on this for me, I'm not a child.
So one review event in 2012? Two? I'd say that's progress.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
And expresses it not with a well reasoned argument or passionate piece of wonderful writing, but with a video of him dancing around with the box.
Professional indeed.
Paul Alexander
Member
Are you appealing to a secret set of knowledge you've been endowed with?
Wiktor
Member
Bulletstorm was done like this too, at least in Europe.
RedNumberFive
Banned
That was from a quick Google search, there are undoubtedly more. I provided evidence to back my claims, feel free to do the same.
Paul Alexander
Member
Again...why are games journalists expected to uphold their professional code of ethics in issues unrelated to their actual work?
Haha! You think those events are a perk.
It's no fun to be made to shotgun through a game at some review event. And if you add insane flight times like, say, from San Francisco to Japan, you are not sweetening the pot.
The truth is no one likes those events. They're something you have to do because game companies have handpicked titles they simply will not send out review copies for. It is infinitely less appealing to review a game under those circumstances than it is, say, for me to review a game I am playing on my couch in the privacy of my own home and at my own pace.
Flawless.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
There should be a difference between 'enthusiast press' like Yoggscast and Total Biscuit and 'serious games journalism' like Polygon, etc.
Right now the only difference is that 'serious games journalists' look down on the 'enthusiast press' even though they do their jobs better than them and aren't easily bought by big publishers.
RedNumberFive
Banned
You sound like they're putting a gun to your head. If these events are such a burden, buy a copy day-one and engage in the same experience as every other consumer, instead of a carefully curated environment.
How do they choose who gets to go to these events? Doesn't that in a way control who gets to put out early or first reviews of games? Polygon said they were invited to the Sim City event to create the review, but had to make a "special arrangement" for it to fit within what they were willing to do.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Why are stupid and ridiculous pieces of media published by someone who creates media for a living suddenly out of the realm of criticism when they're not being published in a "professional" setting?
In any other job, what I do outside of work will reflect on what I do inside, especially if the two are closely related. There are consequences for everything. You can't just say "he didn't do it for money" and pretend that it doesn't make him look like a complete idiot. Just like I'm going to be critical of Arthur Gies for his Twitter account, even though it has nothing to do with Polygon itself.
Ravensmash
Member
And then you have consumers complaining because reviews aren't out for launch! Its a cycle no doubt.
There is demand for timely reviews.
Surely press events are the norm for entertainment press anyway, look at film reviews etc.
The review/preview events do kind of suck. You lose the ability to review at your own pace, which is kind of what the publisher is hoping for, I guess. They're not a perk, no, but I don't think you get your best review out the door at one of those events either.
I really don't understand why people constantly post that gif of Justin. He's not allowed to fool around and get excited about a video game? Justin is one of the more talented writers in this industry, and he's legitimately hilarious. Yet he gets shat on because he made a silly video. It's things like that - and the whole Doritos Pope Geoff Keighley thing - that make journalists not want to have serious conversations on GAF. You guys are getting mad about the wrong things, and reducing this discussion to memes instead of serious issues.
(And I say that as someone who has a lot of problems with the current state of game journalism.)
(And I say that as someone who has a lot of problems with the current state of game journalism.)
Careful with those goalposts, you'll have someone's eye out.
Jake Tower
Banned
I know! I don't understand why Mike Rowe hasn't done a games journalism episode of Dirty Jobs.
Paul Alexander
Member
You might be right, in which case I was off the mark and made a quick assumption, but I can't care as much as some people. If I made a list I doubt review events would even rank in the top 10 as far as "glaring ethics issues in games journalism" goes. Y'all are barking up the wrong tree.
Paul Alexander
Member
you're right, it hasn't improved as much as my original statement implied.
Then let's discuss Gies' blithe dismissal of another journalist's story on Sim City because it was based on an anonymous source.
What are your thoughts on this?
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