If a person fucks up and directly affects other then people can call him/her on /him/her bullshit. Theres no hive mind in Neogaf, we are no gaming journalists.
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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
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If a person fucks up and directly affects other then people can call him/her on /him/her bullshit. Theres no hive mind in Neogaf, we are no gaming journalists.
Not really, but this situation cost a man his job for no good reason.
CoachKevin
Member
For someone just stepping into the thread, is there a rundown of what went down?
mugurumakensei
Member
But it's times like these when we really need to find solidarity and join our fellow brothers and sisters at gaf.
In case, it's glossed over again. I'm making fun of how oddly protective and defensive gaming journalists are
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Yeah same thing happens at retail all the time. Guy walks in ask if game is good, clerks tell him it's great just to get a sale. Same thing in a much larger scale. Honestly we could all see the way the system was set up long before this. Goes hand in hand with people loving games they are good at and hating games they suck at. Hype men are the ring leaders of the people that love said game. Thats how I see it. Great article and thumbs up to those involved.
Where exactly started the thought that being critic is a sign of being disloyal? Anyways it doesn´t matter. Like I already said:
The problem is not Wainright. The problem is that someone can wrote Public Relations pieces for their company and they are published as frontpage-articles on sites such as IGN. Their credibility has gone down the river.
Boss Man
Member
Not to mention the influence that reviews have on actual game development.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Metacritic changed everything.
Freezie KO
Banned
Hey, Lauren! If you're reading, I'll start defending you in my posts for some of that Square Enix cash. Unless you think that's PreMature...
not_so_special
Banned
that is the worst part
Cheers
Yep, and with bonuses being tied to metacritic scores, developers have quite the incentives to influence reviewers.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Once again a large amount of game whatevers prove that they can't take any criticism and instead of addressing it would rather act like petulant children on twitter with their buddies. Irritating stuff and props to people like Rab and Walker for calling out the bullshit. Real shame about Rab quitting, I thought it was great that he was writing columns for Eurogamer.
It's also a shame that Wainwrights going to be the target of some unwarranted abuse when she's likely no worse than many of her peers.
It's also a shame that Wainwrights going to be the target of some unwarranted abuse when she's likely no worse than many of her peers.
Haha not a good idea to have open comments on your steam profile. http://steamcommunity.com/id/atheistium
drkOne
Member
I doubt she does. GAF gives no free games. She might start doing it once Dudebro hits tho...
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
She even recommended LC:GoL on steam
IC_Champion
Member
Ouch. She should have covered her bases at the same time she made here twitter private.
That the one guy who commented is called "rapefist murderbeard" is kind of messed up.
I see she did some misleading on GAF too..
Some quotes about Tomb Raider:
atheistium said:
atheistium On Tomb Raider getting SE cutscenes said::O
Reminds me of being a kid againI missed when the Tomb Raiders did this!
atheistium when looking at some preview said:You should! I'm tempted to bust out my PS1 copies and play through them all
atheistium doing the thing she doesnt quite does best said:
Yikes.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yes she should have. However some of the comments on it are really uncalled for.
Who can fault Rob Florence for not naming names? Look at that Steam profile and that's just the surface.
I mean it absolutely sucks that Lauren deceived the readers of the various publications but the Internet has no filter and now she is threatened and harassed on every platform.
I sincerely hope that the mods on this forum monitor her inbox on here for any private messages being sent to her and ban the people that send her vile comments.
Don't get me wrong, I think she absolutely deserves the backlash she is getting but there are two issues:
- Vile personal insults; I don't think these are ever justified. Laying out the facts is more more damaging and doesn't muddy the waters.
- The focus shifting from shady games journalism being buddies with the people they are supposed to be critiquing and informing customers of to "Lauren fucked up"
I mean it absolutely sucks that Lauren deceived the readers of the various publications but the Internet has no filter and now she is threatened and harassed on every platform.
I sincerely hope that the mods on this forum monitor her inbox on here for any private messages being sent to her and ban the people that send her vile comments.
Don't get me wrong, I think she absolutely deserves the backlash she is getting but there are two issues:
- Vile personal insults; I don't think these are ever justified. Laying out the facts is more more damaging and doesn't muddy the waters.
- The focus shifting from shady games journalism being buddies with the people they are supposed to be critiquing and informing customers of to "Lauren fucked up"
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
Developers are not the issue.
Risible
Member
Her shill on Steam for LC:GoLO: "If you're a keen Lara nut like me then LC:GOL will be right up your street. If you just like isometric puzzle fests with fun gameplay, co-op and happiness then this will also be good for you.
Actually if you just want to improve your life then getting it would do so. You'd also be my friend forever and ever. We'd have a sacred bond that no one but Lara herself could break. We could be internet lovers!
So yeah, it's good. You should get it! "
LC:GoL is a fantastic fucking game. But in light of her Squeenix connection this review looks very, very bad, no matter her true opinion of the game.
grimshawish
Banned
Honestly as I say, she should sit down - think about things and write about it all.
As I say - shes done what she needed to do to get where she wanted in the industry, she didn't ride to the top using bad practices; she got her foot in the door. Could she have done it without her friend? Possibly, but the simple fact is the entire industry is corrupt - the exact point the original article that started this was making. Everyone is too close. Everyone.
If you don't think jornos have made friends with PR people whilst working in the industry then your being pretty daft. The aim should be for publications to create a 'gap' between them and the PR plods. I think this incident will at least make some act with a bit more decorum over it all.
IGN won't be too happy about her Tomb article though thats for sure.
Her actions over the EG article are the real issue here, it wasn't just childish what she did (although it was) - it was rather cruel and ill thought out. She should have kept shut and gone about her day, the same article mentioned other jornos and what they were up to, she acted in a way that I can only word as spoilt. Spoilt by the industry into thinking it was all a closed rosie garden as oppose to a proper job.
No need to be an arsehole.
As I say - shes done what she needed to do to get where she wanted in the industry, she didn't ride to the top using bad practices; she got her foot in the door. Could she have done it without her friend? Possibly, but the simple fact is the entire industry is corrupt - the exact point the original article that started this was making. Everyone is too close. Everyone.
If you don't think jornos have made friends with PR people whilst working in the industry then your being pretty daft. The aim should be for publications to create a 'gap' between them and the PR plods. I think this incident will at least make some act with a bit more decorum over it all.
IGN won't be too happy about her Tomb article though thats for sure.
Her actions over the EG article are the real issue here, it wasn't just childish what she did (although it was) - it was rather cruel and ill thought out. She should have kept shut and gone about her day, the same article mentioned other jornos and what they were up to, she acted in a way that I can only word as spoilt. Spoilt by the industry into thinking it was all a closed rosie garden as oppose to a proper job.
No need to be an arsehole.
arts&crafts
Member
Haha I love Detective-GAF, its like a real life Sherlock Holmes.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
HOLY SHIT THIS IS INCREDIBLE
Meus Renaissance
Member
To be honest, she could just sincerely be a massive fan of the series. Nothing thats been discovered is conclusive and open to interpretation. Personally, I do not believe she was promoting anything on behalf of SE. Some of you are stretching this irrationally and its annoying
Didn't want to imply that. It's rather those publisher who offer a bonus for 90+ metacritic score in the first place.
IC_Champion
Member
True about that.
-- I can be too, for the right price.
Yeah, seems like it. To say that her gaf posts are viral marketing seems like a big stretch as well
Ken Masters
Banned
I'm embarrassed to be gamer reading this, zero integrity in gaming "journalism"
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Definitely. The bigger issue is the accepted practices in the business, not the screwups of a single person.
SupraDarky
Member
Let's be fair here, this is a post she made in 2010 in the What game do you own the most of? :
Everything's definitely fishy, but it seems like she's always been a TR fan.
Everything's definitely fishy, but it seems like she's always been a TR fan.
This is a complex issue, but I think Keighley does good work ultimately. He has multiple jobs, and fulfills them differently depending on the intent. His Final Hours articles are excellent, they intend to document the final tumultuous periods game development, and does so faithfully I believe. The fact he is also this softball throwing shill on some crappy TV program doesn't affect my perception of his serious work.
It might be British a thing, but many of our journalists are also entertainment personalities, and while it might be seen as dissonant, it feels quite natural after being surrounded by it.
As for the aftermath of the image, I think everyone agrees that the relationship between media and the publishers is broken, but I also don't see it really sustaining long term. Publishers are fixated on pushing the AAA titles, fewer, bigger release per year, mastering the effectiveness of their marketing. They won't need the press, until they do, they'll abuse them as much as they're abused, much like their relationship with retail. It will work itself out in time. It won't ever go away, but it'll stop mattering as purchase advice. It hasn't mattered what the cinema press has said for decades, and it barely matters what the game press say now.
It might be British a thing, but many of our journalists are also entertainment personalities, and while it might be seen as dissonant, it feels quite natural after being surrounded by it.
As for the aftermath of the image, I think everyone agrees that the relationship between media and the publishers is broken, but I also don't see it really sustaining long term. Publishers are fixated on pushing the AAA titles, fewer, bigger release per year, mastering the effectiveness of their marketing. They won't need the press, until they do, they'll abuse them as much as they're abused, much like their relationship with retail. It will work itself out in time. It won't ever go away, but it'll stop mattering as purchase advice. It hasn't mattered what the cinema press has said for decades, and it barely matters what the game press say now.
drkOne
Member
You're on the internet, you're gonna get insulted. This shouldn't be new to anyone.
She brought all of this on herself, intentionally or not, a dude who did the right thing lost his job and has been threatened to not try to pursue a carreer as a game journalist, and the person who is shady and shitty gets away with a couple of insults from internet people?
If all she has to deal with are a couple of internet guys, lucky her, I don't think we have ever seen a journalist with so much shit attached to his name.
Monumental
Banned
Both of these examples are BULLSHIT. And have been purposely misconstrued for ages by specific groups of people to label these guys as Microsoft fanboys.How long ago are we talking? Because I remember this shit:
And didn't that Shane guy go on to become a Sony PR shill or something?
Ryan's exact NEXT line was that Gears of War 2 was too good because it made him not want to return to Gears of War 1 because it improved so much. That's sentiment that A LOT of people share on a lot of sequels. Games improves and we don't like going back to older mechanics.
As for Dan Hsu, what's pathetic is that people don't understand that 10 doesn't mean perfect. For all the things GOW1 did wrong, it also stood heads above almost every other action game and for the last 6 years, pretty much every major action game has been copying things that GOW1 made popular and nearly perfected (darligns such as Uncharted).
Also, if Dan Hsu was such a shill for Microsoft, he wouldn't have been the one that everyone references with this....
He was considered the poster boy for journalistic integrity then, but when he gives an obviously spectacular game a 10 while also pointing out its flaws (see: doing his job), he gets called a fanboy.
Fuck those people who try to make insinuations about other people's characters based on their obvious leanings.
He did reply to it.
Pretty much this.
She handled herself poorly, should have written a rebuttal or a defence of her actions instead of going to legal (or not as the case may be) but personal insults don't help anyone.
The comments on her Steam page and on the Eurogamer article itself have just devolved into puerile misogyny of the worst sort and it's just not OK.
Call her out on her BS, but do it like Rab did, with a bit of class and in a way that actually stimulates discussion.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
From what I've heard of her, she is.
Or, you know, a PR person for TR.
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