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[Seda]

Please don't respond to the thread if all you have to say is some variant of 'lol games journalism'. Deleted several posts.

 

[v1oz]

So if Nintendo had battlefield and call of duty with sick graphics, people will drop their Xbox controllers for a Wii 3?

Yeah, I don't think so.

That's a tough one. But even if Nintendo came out with a console that could run COD at 4K resolution today for a reasonable price. I doubt people would dump their PS4's and jump ship. There's a alot more to a platform than the specs.

 

[Father_Brain]

That's true in the short term, and of course the GameCube was profitable at 22M.

But game development costs continue to rise and if Nintendo home console sales are stuck at <20M, at some point you squeeze out all the profit. And we know game development costs have risen for Nintendo, Miyamoto commented on it and it's been cited as a reason for game delays.

This. Even if Wii U was selling on par with GC, the viability of the GC-era business model in 2013 is dubious at best, particularly when you also factor in the losses they're taking on hardware and what must be very low third-party licensing revenue.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Surprised Justin would write something like that to be honest.

 

[cyberheater]

On the record I was talking about this thread from yesterday: Is the gaming press pushing a Wii U, dark horse agenda?

Just thought it was something funny.

No. I don't think it's some sort of agenda or conspiracy. I think the gaming press have wanted to call out Nintendo for some time now but have always been afraid to.
I think folks are starting to see that Nintendo are in big trouble and unless they do something really drastic soon then as a gaming company, they will be irrelevant in the next 5 years.

They have squandered all their power and they don't know what to do because they know they cannot compete with the big players.

 

[DJwest]

How so? Whats happening in a few months?

Gotta keep that blackboard alive. People here believe that Mario Kart and Smash will save the Wii U. They're in for a rough awakening.

 

[DrLazy]

Man the media-pile on is getting ridiculous. Why all in the same week? Group think at work.

 

[Codeblue]

But is it worth that struggle? Maybe it would be better for the company to cut its losses and start again with a new console. If developed now, a new Nintendo machine would likely be ready in time for Christmas 2015. By then, it would be too soon for Sony and Microsoft to counter it with another launch, giving Nintendo the chance to offer a more powerful console at around the price of PS4 and XO right now.

Wii U owners could be given a large discount at launch to say sorry (perhaps similar to 3DS’ Ambassador program), 3DS will keep the Nintendo brand at the forefront of people’s minds (and for the right reasons too), and development resources won’t have been split between bailing out the sinking Wii U ship and developing the inevitable next-generation machine. It just makes sense.

Did they just publish a GameFAQs post?

I've read a lot of terrible articles in recent days with regards to the resolution stuff, launch sales, and all that, but this one is a special level of bad.

 

[richiek]

Immediately scrapping the Wii U to make a new console would make things even worse for Nintendo. Better for them to ride out the storm, ala the 3DS.

 

[Spieler Eins]

It would be wise none of their teams make any more WiiU projects than the ones they are developing right now and let them jump right into researching their next gen hardware for each game afterwards. Nothing's gonna get the WiiU going, just ride it out until 2016 so you have your 4 years, let it go into history as the worst Nintendo home console and release a proper system that's actually thought out and benefits from better organized teams.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

As long as those who have purchased a Wii U get the next console free of charge and it has BC then sure.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

New console development doesn't work like that. You can't just shit out a new console in 2 years. Didn't Sony say they started working on the PS4 in 2008?

 

[orioto]

But then I don't see your point : at first you're saying that power is not the issue....and after, that is totally is.

Where did i speak about power ? The ambition has to be in R&D, in term of physics, interfaces etc..

 

[BatDan]

So... did we all forget about what Sega did? How they dumped the Saturn far too soon for the Dreamcast and destroyed consumer trust?

 

[Freezie KO]

No, the thing not going for the Wii U is consumers know it's not the console that will give them the option to play all of the latest hit games they enjoy.

Going back through the entire history of this industry the winner has always been the console that housed all of the biggest hits. Atari 2600, NES, Playstation, GBA,PS2, SNES etc all won because they were the systems that got all the big name games. They were the systems that weren't a gamble. You knew if a big new game came out you could play it on that system.

Wii was the only console ever to buck that trend. It caught fire for the motion control idea that brought in not only Nintendo fans, but droves of nongamers who propelled it to the top spot. If not for this expanded audience of curiosity seekers there's NO doubt in my mind the PS3 and 360 would've clobbered it. It's why they're still selling, and the Wii has faded away. The consoles that consumers trust to deliver the goods will find success. It's why the PS4 and Xbone exploded out of the gate. Because these are the brands and systems consumers can trust.

Until Nintendo gets the third parties back on board, and changes their image to a "go to" console to play all of the hottest new games they will continue to lag behind everyone else. Not unless they manage to get lucky again and bring in droves of consumers that aren't interested in sticking around.

This is a really important point. The Nintendo brand for consoles is untrustworthy. And that goes beyond third parties as well.

Due to the treatment of Wii, both casual and especially core can't trust the console to have a consistent release of games. You can't trust that Nintendo won't just abandon the platform for two years. And you can't even trust that Nintendo itself will supply fresh, original content due the huge amount of sequels being released.

 

[RedSwirl]

The problem with this is that the next Nintendo console probably already IS in development. Usually a console manufacturer will start early development on a console as soon as they launch its predecessor. It essentially takes a whole console generation to research, develop, and eventually manufacture a new console. Even at the most optimistic estimations, when Nintendo launched the Wii U in 2012, that was the bet it made for the next four years. At the very soonest I don't think we'll see another Nintendo console until late 2016, and at that point it better be in line with Gen 9 hardware instead of the PS4 and Xbox One.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

That's true in the short term, and of course the GameCube was profitable at 22M.

But game development costs continue to rise and if Nintendo home console sales are stuck at <20M, at some point you squeeze out all the profit. And we know game development costs have risen for Nintendo, Miyamoto commented on it and it's been cited as a reason for game delays.

I somewhat doubt dev costs have accelerated that steeply for Nintendo where they need a huge userbase. They were simply caught off guard with their typical shoestring budgets.

And I also think Nintendo's online support and online services are atrocious. So many games missing from their estore from NES to Gamecube/Wii that should be downloadable. Especially if they went through the trouble of including Wii hardware. Nintendo brought Virtual Console to mainstream and then killed it themselves. I would PAY for a lot of those old games to be rereleased with emulated online.

 

[michaeltraps]

This is is no way a jest - can we seriously relegate these articles to one thread that is continuously updated with Nintendo is doomed/Nintendo is not doomed articles? It's getting really tiring to see 2-3 of these crop up everyday, only to have the same exact reactions in each.

 

[v1oz]

This. Even if Wii U was selling on par with GC, the viability of the GC-era business model in 2013 is dubious at best, particularly when you also factor in the losses they're taking on hardware and what must be very low third-party licensing revenue.

According to Reggie. As soon as you buy a game they are profitable on the hardware. Nintendo's business model doesn't need them to sell as much volume as Microsoft and Sony to make a profit. There's even discussion on GAF and the on the internet that the Microsoft Xbox division has not been profitable despite the high volume of sales they had last gen. If any model is the most sustainable in this industry it's Nintendo's.

 

[martino]

what is defeating ? please game radar wants ? (who care ?) sell the most ?(who care except f******) make profit as a company ? (that is possible even without being the leader in sells)
can't we wait if the third one ? if nintendo can provide and sells enough software (and so some hardware cause of home library) it can happen (and i think as a company it's a better scenario overall than ps3/360 billions loss of money even with 80 million console sold)

 

[Jak140]

A new console would do squat for them right now. They need an entire culture change like Sony had when they let a bunch of westerners take over key roles, only Nintendo is far worse here than Sony was. They need to drastically repair relations with 3rd parties too since we're going on 20 years since 3rd parties mostly abandoned Nintendo. They've let themselves dig into such a deep hole by ignoring the trends of the industry for so long that I'm not sure they can ever really climb back out.

Conversely, ignoring certain trends like excessive micro transactions, online DRM, pay to play online, releasing unfinished games to meet release date are actually among the things I appreciate most about Nintendo. Of course you're right that ignoring trends like the importance of Western centric games has also deeply wounded them

 

[apana]

Probably a four year life cycle, three years if nothing changes. Maybe it is time to take out the gamepad.

 

[Sendou]

No. I don't think it's some sort of agenda or conspiracy. I think the gaming press have wanted to call out Nintendo for some time now but have always been afraid to.
I think folks are starting to see that Nintendo are in big trouble and unless they do something really drastic soon then as a gaming company, they will be irrelevant in the next 5 years.

They have squandered all their power and they don't know what to do because they know they cannot compete with the big players.

I think you misunderstood what I said. Crying " it's agenda!" on both ways is ridiculous. I haven't read the article yet (I'll do it next) but the title suggests nothing unreasonable even if I fundamentally disagree with what it's saying.

 

[Roto13]

The reason Nintendo is even going this route is because making hardware on par with their competitors didn't work out very well.

Also resistive touch screen + standard controller buttons >>>>>> capacitative touch screen, thanks.

 

[cyberheater]

As long as those who have purchased a Wii U get the next console free of charge and it has BC then sure.

They squandered all that silicon on WiiU for BC which should have been put to much better use and provided us a machine that had maybe half the performance of Xbox One or PS4. They would have a machine that could bridge the gap. Great at running current gen software at a higher resolution or higher frame rates and maybe capable enough to run next gen titles at 720p @ 30fps with a few graphical features removed.

 

[Rollo Lawson]

Opinions...every day I'm wanting to go out and buy one more and more. The new next gen boxes just pushed me into wanting one more

 

[Father_Brain]

According to Reggie. As soon as you buy a game they are profitable on the hardware.

That was before Nintendo cut the price in the West or started aggressively bundling software, and I'm pretty sure that was later confirmed to be inaccurate.

 

[SonyToo!™]

Man the media-pile on is getting ridiculous. Why all in the same week? Group think at work.

Those UK sales figures has sent alarm bells off in both the press and gaming community.

 

[cyberheater]

I think you misunderstood what I said. Crying " it's agenda!" on both ways is ridiculous. I haven't read the article yet (I'll do it next) but the title suggests nothing unreasonable even if I fundamentally disagree with what it's saying.

Oh. Okay. I understand what you're getting at.

 

[C.Olimar788]

Game journalists thinking they know how a big company should operate are hilarious.

Also, I would argue that Wii U is more next-gen than any of the other consoles as it represents a much more significant leap over its predecessor and actually bothers to incorporate new features.

 

[stilgar]

Where did i speak about power ? The ambition has to be in R&D, in term of physics, interfaces etc..

Ok,Can't disagree with a sort of ack of ambition generally speaking. They games are incredibly polished, but they could try to make a breakthough. Would it be useful in terms of sales? I'm really not sure.

 

[Interceptor]

iPad 2 had almost twice as many pixels as the Wii U controller.

iPad2 resolution is 1024x768. And a much higher quality screen with better colours.

You demand better screens and yet you don´t understand the concept of pixel density. Google ppi and enlighten yourself.

The screen of the pad is fine. And thank god it´s resistive. I don´t need virtual buttons and it enables me to do this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=647291&page=12


But keep spreading the fud.

Spoiler

The battery is shit though

 

[RedSwirl]

No, the thing not going for the Wii U is consumers know it's not the console that will give them the option to play all of the latest hit games they enjoy.

Going back through the entire history of this industry the winner has always been the console that housed all of the biggest hits. Atari 2600, NES, Playstation, GBA,PS2, SNES etc all won because they were the systems that got all the big name games. They were the systems that weren't a gamble. You knew if a big new game came out you could play it on that system.

Wii was the only console ever to buck that trend. It caught fire for the motion control idea that brought in not only Nintendo fans, but droves of nongamers who propelled it to the top spot. If not for this expanded audience of curiosity seekers there's NO doubt in my mind the PS3 and 360 would've clobbered it. It's why they're still selling, and the Wii has faded away. The consoles that consumers trust to deliver the goods will find success. It's why the PS4 and Xbone exploded out of the gate. Because these are the brands and systems consumers can trust.

Until Nintendo gets the third parties back on board, and changes their image to a "go to" console to play all of the hottest new games they will continue to lag behind everyone else. Not unless they manage to get lucky again and bring in droves of consumers that aren't interested in sticking around.

This is correct. The issue is, Nintendo wants to become the "go to" console and brand by setting its own trends. I feel like Nintendo is gonna keep trying shit until it sets a trend so popular it forcibly steers the rest of the industry.

And you have to admit, following trends alone won't make Nintendo the "go to" platform. At this stage it has to have SOME kind of selling point beyond Nintendo's franchises in order to bring over third party developers. I feel like this has been the defining problem of Nintendo, even before the SNES days.

Actually, come to think of it Nintendo's past dominance of the market was kind of artificial. It was never due to them having the platform developers wanted to work with, but the only platform they COULD work with. Nintendo was dominant in the 80's and early 90's because almost no one else stepped up, especially in the Japanese market where most of the console developers were.

Basically, Nintendo has never ever figured out how to deal with legit competition for the support of third party developers.

 

[Otakumegane]

Why wouldn't they?

There are plenty of RPGs being made from third parties.

Opportunity cost. Much more profitable to use that money to make another Mario spinoff. But since they own a platform they have to diversify in order to bring more people in.

Like having to create thier own ff like Jrpg cause it didn't exist in their platform. Same reason why they should make a shooter once.

 

[StoOgE]

Man with no business accumen finds typewriter: news at 11.

A console launch isn't something you just decide to do on a whim. Sega did that, look where it got them.

Nintendo, if anything, should find a way to remove the gamepad and sell the system at 199 with a pack-in.

That might mean certain games need to be patched and certain games need to be outfitted with a "only works with gamepad" sticker.. but that is the easiest solution. If this Xmas doesn't move 3-4 million WiiU units they need to start looking that direction quickly.

 

[orioto]

Ok,Can't disagree with a sort of ack of ambition generally speaking. They games are incredibly polished, but they could try to make a breakthough. Would it be useful in terms of sales? I'm really not sure.

Well i'll tell you what it would do. It would break the inertia they have right now, which is "let"s make our fan happy at least, and do what we do best" that will lead them to their slow and sure death.

 

[Haines]

if only people played nintendo stuff as much as they like to talk about it...

 

[LiquidMamba]

With most games being 1080p30 (Or less), Current-gen consoles might not have the horsepower to fully take advantage of something like Occulus Rift. I think its unlikely for Nintendo to release a console that powerful, and they don't have much experience with first person games beyond Retro. But a console bundled with OR could differentiate them from the competition.

 

[Malvingt2]

*insert 20 other threads*
Dec. 02: Nintendo needs to provide an option to disable the Wii U gamepad
Dec. 02: Ninty Missing Target as Sony-MS Sales Dwarf Wii U, Neogaf's Michael Pachter quoted
Dec. 02: Rubin: "Nintendo Is Irrelevant As A Hardware Manufacturer In The Console Business”
Dec. 03: Here's the Wii 2, we call it the Wii U
Dec. 03: Would it be cost effective to change the Wii U SKU to this and the functionality?
Dec. 03: "Wii U won’t see another Christmas, “nobody gives a shit” about Mario," says dev.
Dec. 03: Should Iwata step down?
Dec. 04: Should Nintendo not have included Wii Remote compatibility for the Wii U?
Dec. 04: VG 247: Nintendo needs to reach beyond its catalogue to save Wii U
Dec. 04: IGN: Game Scoop!: The State of the Wii U
Dec. 05: Gamespot: The Point - Is the Wii U a failure?
Dec. 05: Pachter: "I don't know why Iwata is still employed"; should bring old games to mobile
Dec. 05: CHRIS KOHLER: What the Hell Is Wrong With Nintendo?
Dec. 05: Is the gaming press pushing a Wii U, dark horse agenda?
Dec. 06: GamesRadar: It’s time for Nintendo to admit defeat and make a true next-gen console
Dec. 06: Nintendo in the Firing Line - Editorial from Gamesindustry
*insert 20 other threads*

wtf

big amount of threads and articles.

 

[okayfrog]

I think the gaming press have wanted to call out Nintendo for some time now but have always been afraid to.

Afraid to!? The gaming press has pretty much only been calling out Nintendo ever since the Wii came out.

 

[Dark Octave]

if only people played nintendo stuff as much as they like to talk about it...

I agree with OP 100%. Nintendo needs to shit or get off the pot.

I'm playing DQVI on my DS right now, will play Super Mario Galaxy when I get home and just bought a 3DS XL last week.

 

[StoOgE]

Opportunity cost. Much more profitable to use that money to make another Mario spinoff. But since they own a platform they have to diversify in order to bring more people in.

Like having to create thier own ff like Jrpg cause it didn't exist in their platform. Same reason why they should make a shooter once.

More than that. They also get offsetting revenue visa vis the licensing fees for third party games (well, in theory :lol) so they can afford to invest in games that aren't going to be super profitable. As you said, to try and draw people in. A game that sells 100K copies is a bomb. A game that sells 100K consoles isn't.

Look to Sega to see what becomes of a hardware manufacturers software divisions when they cease to make hardware. We get a bunch of Sonic games and occasionally something not Sonic. Compare that to the amazing catelog they were putting out in support of Dreamcast , Saturn and Genny.

 

[Matriox]

Just for the sake of "Wait and See" I think I will do just that. I was a launch 3ds owner who was very disappointed with the purchase. In comes the Vita with higher specs so I jump ship and sell my launch 3ds. Mistakes abound, because I only played my vita for the occasional game of Spelunky or Rayman. Now the 3DS has all of the games I want to play as my Vita collects dust for some new hotness. Moral of the story is wait and see, the killer games havn't quite gotten here yet, but Rayman Legends and SM3DW is a great place to start.

 

[Appleman]

Yeah, they should really prematurely kill the Wii U and make a brand new, more expensive console and kill all of their consumer good will because Mario 3D Land, Pikmin 3, and NSMBU all look godawful and Nintendo should be ashamed that they can't produce acceptable visuals.

 

[RurouniZel]

The problem is that the industry is ALREADY leaving Nintendo behind. Nintendo need the either step up and really compete or just concentrate their strengths.

"Leaving" makes this sound like a recent thing.

The industry, at least as far as 3rd parties and gaming "journalism" is concerned, left Nintendo behind ages ago.

 

[b3b0p]

They just need to release a Virtual NES and put in an account system. Offer the entire library of past generations up for download a la Steam and print money. Basically, an AppleTV or VitaTV for past generation of consoles, especially NES, SNES, N64, and Gamecube, along with their past portables.

 

[orioto]

With most games being 1080p30 (Or less), Current-gen consoles might not have the horsepower to fully take advantage of something like Occulus Rift. I think its unlikely for Nintendo to release a console that powerful, and they don't have much experience with first person games beyond Retro. But a console bundled with OR could differentiate them from the competition.

I agree, or at least they would catch some gamer's lost attention again. BUT there is no possible way, right now, to release a powerful (enough) console + a VR headset for less than .. i don't know 600$ ? That won't work.

Except if they assume the fact that VR is so awesome you could play an early ngc game with it and it would be 500 more impressive than any next gen graphics. Then maybe.. But that's still complicated cause totally opposed to their philosophy right now (family, conviviality..). But i think it could work, and would allow them to re-release odl games, like F-Zero GX etc.. and develop games for cheap (meaning more and quicker) that would benefit from the awesomeness and appeal to a lot of people.

They could have played that card, but it's beginning to be too late. Except if you think the Oculus is for PC, Sony and Microsoft offering will be expensive and add ons.. A cheap console with that built in offer could be for VR what was the NDS for tactile gameplay.

 

[Interceptor]

*insert 20 other threads*
Dec. 02: Nintendo needs to provide an option to disable the Wii U gamepad
Dec. 02: Ninty Missing Target as Sony-MS Sales Dwarf Wii U, Neogaf's Michael Pachter quoted
Dec. 02: Rubin: "Nintendo Is Irrelevant As A Hardware Manufacturer In The Console Business”
Dec. 03: Here's the Wii 2, we call it the Wii U
Dec. 03: Would it be cost effective to change the Wii U SKU to this and the functionality?
Dec. 03: "Wii U won’t see another Christmas, “nobody gives a shit” about Mario," says dev.
Dec. 03: Should Iwata step down?
Dec. 04: Should Nintendo not have included Wii Remote compatibility for the Wii U?
Dec. 04: VG 247: Nintendo needs to reach beyond its catalogue to save Wii U
Dec. 04: IGN: Game Scoop!: The State of the Wii U
Dec. 05: Gamespot: The Point - Is the Wii U a failure?
Dec. 05: Pachter: "I don't know why Iwata is still employed"; should bring old games to mobile
Dec. 05: CHRIS KOHLER: What the Hell Is Wrong With Nintendo?
Dec. 05: Is the gaming press pushing a Wii U, dark horse agenda?
Dec. 06: GamesRadar: It’s time for Nintendo to admit defeat and make a true next-gen console
Dec. 06: Nintendo in the Firing Line - Editorial from Gamesindustry
*insert 20 other threads*

wtf

Happening inside:

 

[MisterHero]

"Already" makes this sound like a recent thing.

The industry, at least as far as 3rd parties and gaming "journalism" is concerned, left Nintendo behind ages ago.

Console gaming has been dead since the 80s. Media called Nintendo crazy to try in the first place.

They should cut the pretense of "games" and turn Wii U into an internet gambling machine. Gambling is a far better guarantee than F2P. Who cares about family friendly entertainment? Kids don't have credit cards.

 

[Daante]

I really wonder what Nintendo has been thinking, and what their strategy will be the coming 3-5 years.

I mean, they saw and knew the sales on COD/BF/Skyrim and similar games on the PS3/360. At that time they sold a lot of Wii yeah, but i can´t imagine they didn´t think one step ahead, what the future would look like?.

As competitive as the console market actually is now, with even another player entering next year (Valve that is with Steam Machines), i dont think theres room in the long term for a hardware company to ignore what the others are doing, and just do their own thing.

If you are Apple and already have a echo system, with kinda "locked in" consumers, and make extremely high quality products, yeah you could continue do your thing, cause people will still continue to buy your stuff, its like a religion. But Nintendo is not there, not even close. Sony is not there, Microsoft is not there, and Valve is not there either. But Sony,MS and Valve are all much closer, and seems to have a vision for the future that i personally think fits better with thirdparties, smartphones/tablets, and online infrastructure.

I would also like to say that i think the times where a hardwarecompany could go with its nose high, and be a bit arrogant is OVER. These days its ALL about witch company who deliver the best value and understand what the consumers/gamers actually want.