Wind Waker wasn't what wrote them into a corner. They could have always said that ALttP follows the Child timeline; Link comes back from the future, Link and Zelda warn the king, the knights of Hyrule fight Ganon without Link and the sages imprison Ganon (no hero takes up the Master Sword), Link goes to Termina. Twilight Princess took away that option. ALttP couldn't have followed the Adult timeline because a hero beats Ganon with the Master Sword.
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Gametrailers doing a Zelda Timeline Video. (Analysis? Opinion?)
- Thread starter BY2K
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Wind Waker wasn't what wrote them into a corner. They could have always said that ALttP follows the Child timeline; Link comes back from the future, Link and Zelda warn the king, the knights of Hyrule fight Ganon without Link and the sages imprison Ganon (no hero takes up the Master Sword), Link goes to Termina. Twilight Princess took away that option. ALttP couldn't have followed the Adult timeline because a hero beats Ganon with the Master Sword.
Can they just do one on Cross' ending, then? Cuz that was a lot to figure out. There were like four timelines.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
Easily the best history video GT has ever done. My God, I got goosebumps SO many times.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I suppose that's possible. It'd seem a bit unnecessary for a whole war and imprisoning, though, considering Ganondorf didn't have the Triforce. Twilight Princess shows exactly that, actually, with them just trying to execute him and be done with it. Though I guess he somehow got the Triforce and got imprisoned anyway, huh.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
KH doesn't seem too difficult though...
BBS - KH1 - CoM/Re:CoM + 358 (running subsequent, and a little bit after) - KH2 - Coded - 3D - KH3 (whenever the fuck it comes out).
BBS - KH1 - CoM/Re:CoM + 358 (running subsequent, and a little bit after) - KH2 - Coded - 3D - KH3 (whenever the fuck it comes out).
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
I never get tired of ogling AG+'s Zelda piece.
Hobbestetrician
Member
Absolutely amazing video, Mike D. The production values and graphics are all top-notch (the altar representing the timeline is tremendous) and the writing is superb.
GT has really been putting together some great features and series (Pop-Fiction, Level, the retrospectives) and this video is probably the best thing the website has ever done. This is some high-grade stuff and something you guys should be really proud of.
GT has really been putting together some great features and series (Pop-Fiction, Level, the retrospectives) and this video is probably the best thing the website has ever done. This is some high-grade stuff and something you guys should be really proud of.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Ha. It spoils... everything.
For some reason, it made me really want to replay Spirit Tracks in particular. I feel like that's going to be a very overlooked Zelda going forward.
Damn it! Cannot watch it!
Supermanisdead
Member
I guess they could always say that it was the one timeline where the backup didn't succeed where Link died. Like some other person/group pick up the slack whenever Link dies. Still it's kind of dumb. I'm sure there are ways they could have avoided the 3rd timeline, but they seem to want the two important timelines to be easy.
Incredible.
Supermanisdead
Member
The long portrait with all the characters? Do you have a link to that image. I thought it was created for the video.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Ag+ was credited for the art during the credits.
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=16868303
You'll need a pixiv account to view the whole thing, but I'm sure you can find the image elsewhere.
YoYo Switch
Banned
Haven't watched yet...
Does this have significant Skyward Sword spoilers? I hear something huge happens in that game and I don't want watching this ruining a big part of that experience
Does this have significant Skyward Sword spoilers? I hear something huge happens in that game and I don't want watching this ruining a big part of that experience
whenever the hell i get around to experiencing it
I actually really liked Spirit Tracks. The final battle showcases the full bad side of the controls, and the flute part is terrible, and being stuck on a train was disappointing, but when you're not stuck on a train or playing the flute, the game was great. I wish someone could do a DPad hack for it the way they did PH.
For starters, has it ever actually been confirmed that he died there? I remember when Hyrule Historia first came out it was more ambiguous, like he "failed", which could have happened if Ganon severely injured him or something. Especially since ALttP says Link has the blood of the Hero (IIRC, could be spirit or Blood of Knights).
To be honest, I look at it as the exact opposite, even though that's not canon. Link doesn't die, but the Knights come along and bail him out, and then Zelda doesn't send him back in time, because that makes more sense to me as a third option; that Zelda doesn't send Link back in time.
Assuming the canon, though, you could just argue that it's because the end of Ocarina of Time was the pivotal moment in Hyrule's history. Note that time hijinks don't make multiple timelines in SS, MM, or OoA. It seems to me that that moment was just special.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I've always maintained that there were two Zelda canons. One for pre-OOT games, and one for post-OOT games, with OOT sorta belonging to both of them as a weird bridge. There was no real in-universe reason for it, it was just clear that at that point they had decided "we will make games like these other ones no longer exist." OOT was a fresh start, from which all future games sprung (with the Oracles as sort of a halfway effort).
So from that standpoint, I'm sort of okay with it being "what-if" branch, not actually a timeline one. Because that's what a distinct canon is. I used to call them "Old Legends of Hyrule" and "New Legends of Hyrule." The official breaking point sorta being halfway through OOT (Link dead), which would put OOT in both canons, matches up well to my original thoughts. (Though my Old Legends canon also excluded Minish/Skyward/FourSwords, it was literally just the games made up until OOT.)
I think the way to really make me okay with their specific breaking reason would be to make more games in the LTTP canon. Throw something in there, in a declined Hyrule, or maybe between OOT and LTTP, but something that actually references the Hero of Time's defeat in-game. Really solidify it as a thing. It would be sorta neat to have a game in that branch after all this time.
I wouldn't be surprised if the official translation ends up just saying that he was "defeated" or "fell in battle," not ever explicitly using words like "death." Not that it really matters much in the end. The LTTP canon has no recollection of the Hero of Time whatsoever, vs his constant references in the other branches. His defeat basically wiped him from history.
Man now I'm thinking about the sword being in the pedestal in LTTP, and how easily it being there would've been explained by a third timeline via an OOT-backwards-timetravel being canonized. As-is, someone would've had to take it off his corpse and stick it back there. OH WELL.
I can't watch the video now, but I do think that the failed timeline makes sense if the sages warp Link to a different dimension at the end of the game, meaning Link never actually goes back to the original childhood timeline but a parallel one.
Did Nintendo specifically say that the failed timeline resulted from Link losing to Ganon?? Maybe they were talking about their first encounter at the city's entrance?
Did Nintendo specifically say that the failed timeline resulted from Link losing to Ganon?? Maybe they were talking about their first encounter at the city's entrance?
YoYo Switch
Banned
When the Hyrule Historia timeline came out, I interpreted the third timeline in a different way than "Link dies while playing the game" and it totally made sense to me.. I just need to remember what my explanation was so i can post it here.
He could have gotten it some other way. In Twilight Princess he ends up getting it because future Zelda was an idiot and sent Link back in time with the triforce of courage still in his hand, causing the triforce in the Child timeline to split apart and the triforce of courage in the Adult timeline to shatter. TP Ganon thought the gods gave it to him cuz they liked him.
HylianScribe
Member
Yes, I tracked down the artist on Pixiv and contacted them about using their artwork for the video in advance. We were granted permission to use the artwork, and the artist (AG+) was credited in the end. Really nice person, too.
I really feel for you, and hopefully the download button gets up soon so you can just get the file and watch it in your own media player. However, I have to report any unauthorized hosting of the video and those videos willl be killed pretty quickly. I'll try to get it on YouTube at some point if possible (like Pop Fiction), but it's not exactly my call to make.
YoYo Switch
Banned
My alternate explanation went something like that.. Not the sages but, Link going back and forth between two timelines creating a third timeline. Fuck, i wish i remembered specifically what it was. Made so much sense to me at the time and I was convinced everyone was looking at the "Link fails" too literally..
See, I dunno, maybe not as specifically as Wind Waker, but ALttP does mention a past Hero the way that TP does. The Maidens do, at the least.
I still like to think of it as Link and Zelda getting their happy ending together, so Link retires quietly and all that jazz. In the battle with Ganon he can't win on his own, so the Knights show up and back him up. That's prolly wrong, though, but its ambiguous enough for me not to worry.
Supermanisdead
Member
Yeah, it has heavy spoilers for every game.
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
The canonical split timeline is pretty fascinating to me. Essentially:
Ganon = The Dark One
Link = Lews Therin
Ganon = The Dark One
Link = Lews Therin
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Well I don't think that's actually the case. When Zelda sent Link back to the past, the Triforce of courage remained in the future. That's why it's in chests beneath the sea in Wind Waker, the royal family broke it to bits and scattered it around.
Ganondorf getting it in TP is.. pretty much unexplained. I remember some theories stating that the Triforce takes on the same properties regardless of timeline, that there's only ever One State for the Triforce, and that since the Triforce split in OOT, maybe the execution in TP took place at the same time, and the split echoed across all realities.
OR SOME CRAP
Basically the way I always took it is that Ganon was always meant to receive the Triforce, so he got it through divine intervention (or a divine "prank" as Twilight Princess called it).
Anyway, the video was enjoyable and had some great production values, though I wonder if just starting it with the official chronology (instead of going through the production history and fitting the discarded timelines together) would have been more straightforward and less confusing. It seems like some important connections were missed (and others repeated several times), when one go-through would have made things more explicit.
ThanksVision
Member
I don't really care for the timeline because it's way too complicated and contrived to be pieced together in my opinion, but this is a great summation of the one of the best--maybe the best--gaming series of all time. The music just sends me. I need to buy these soundtracks somewhere.
YoYo Switch
Banned
Yes, the triforce of courage stays in the adult timeline and shatters for WW Link to find. But watch the ending of OoT again. Link has the triforce of courage in his hand as a kid despite being sent back to before Ganon conquered Hyrule. This isn't a simple oversight, since they had to specifically code it, since young Link was never shown with the triforce of courage in his hand previously. This means that Zelda sending Link back in time with the ocarina caused the triforce to split in that timeline. Instead of Ganon splitting the triforce, Link did.
Ocarina of Time Zelda is the biggest menace to Hyrule in all timelines.
I agree I would have liked to see some more of the hints and connections between the games like how in Adventures of Link, all of the towns are named after the sages in OOT, but I really can't complaine. 38 minutes of awesomely produced Zelda content made my day. Just got back from the Zelda Symphony in NY last night. I might have to start my replay of Skyward Sword soon. If only the wife had finished Skyward Sword by now I'd show her this tonight when she got home.
I'm actually really curious to see where Nintendo put the next game in the series considering *end game spoilers of three games*
Ganon is dead at the end of all three timelines. Do they go with a brand new antagonist as they alluded to in Skyward Sword?
Like Emcee said, the failed timeline is obviously Nintendo writing itself out of a corner, but it doesn't bother me. The old NES-SNES games didn't work with where the series had headed, so it's been building up to this for a while now. It makes a certain amount of sense and at least fits the remaining games together.
Besides, I'd rather have some goofy explanation and a conclusion to the timeline theorizing than have this endlessly debated. Of course, now the question is where the series heads from here, because as it stands, a good portion of the chronology is wrapped up. We either get farflung prequels or sequels I guess.
Besides, I'd rather have some goofy explanation and a conclusion to the timeline theorizing than have this endlessly debated. Of course, now the question is where the series heads from here, because as it stands, a good portion of the chronology is wrapped up. We either get farflung prequels or sequels I guess.
I don't mind because imo it was a pretty clever way to get themselves out of that corner and it makes sense.
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