SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Guillermo, lovely message and all, but get your ass up and make Haunted mansion already!
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GDT going all in on twitter #FucKonami
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
Guillermo, lovely message and all, but get your ass up and make Haunted mansion already!
Langdon Alger
Banned
I didn't understand PT at all. I didn't know what was going on or how it worked.
I can't be the only one who finds this cringey? Just stop whining and get on with what you're doing now. It's like someone who constantly talks about their ex of over a year ago.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I personally love it. Konami isn't just an old ex, it's a big company that had a dream team of devs making a game literally everybody wanted shutting it down AFTER screwing over MGSV's development, apparently.
I support his vocal criticism.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Hero.
DONT HURT MY POOR KONAMI.
#poorkonami
I dont see any apologizing, just stating inconvenient truth. As much as we like it, AAA gaming is still risky business.
The way they broke up is definitely ugly though.
Yeah if they wanted to shift development over to just mobile/Pachinko I don't totally agree with the switch but I can at least understand why they'd do it.
Honestly they picked about the worst possible way to do it, sabotaged thier own product, damaged thier image as a company and burned good will which will still impact them at least to an extent in the other markets they are looking at staying in.
I think it would have been reasonable to give Kojima solid deadlines and force him to finish. He wouldn't have been able to be at his normal level of perfectionism but he'd be able to close out his project better and closer to his own terms of he hadn't been separated from his staff. This also would have prevented the PR meltdown which resulted from it.
Silent Hills is a bit different. MGSV was largely complete and would have made no sense to cancel. Silent Hills seemed to be far earlier in development so I cannot blame them as much for cancelling it. I probably would have tried to make a deal with Sony or MS to fund it and keep the project alive but since it was early and that's the type of project they were moving away from I think it's cancellation was at least somewhat justified.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
What on earth ...?
The only games to come out in the last half decade were Downpour and that Vita thing, and they were total footnotes in this industry, not heavy hitters critically or commercially... definitely not household names.
In the movie space you had Silent Hill Revelation 3D, which was an obscure mess. It made its money back is the best thing you could say about it.
No.... Silent Hill was a declined and practically dead series before P.T. was poised to revive to to its highest heights since the original trilogy, and perhaps far beyond...
I love this man
Why lie man? I never cared for it. I'd rather see what Death Stranding will be than get Silent Hills.
I hate Konami as much as the next guy, even though I'm aware every story has more than one side and Kojima is probably not guilt free in this.
Anyway, isn't this enough? I mean, they cancelled a sequel to a failing (or dead) franchise based on a demo that had little to nothing to do with it.
Despite the fact that it's a pretty awesome demo, it would never have reached these levels of adoration of it wasn't deleted from the shop. It really isn't that crazy that it was cancelled, even if you don't factor in all the stuff that was going on with Kojima.
Just release a sex tape with Del Toro and Keighly sucking Kojima's dick and get it over with.
Anyway, isn't this enough? I mean, they cancelled a sequel to a failing (or dead) franchise based on a demo that had little to nothing to do with it.
Despite the fact that it's a pretty awesome demo, it would never have reached these levels of adoration of it wasn't deleted from the shop. It really isn't that crazy that it was cancelled, even if you don't factor in all the stuff that was going on with Kojima.
Just release a sex tape with Del Toro and Keighly sucking Kojima's dick and get it over with.
Is the subtitle legit or plain fanfiction?
OfTheOverflow
Member
Lol, I've always thought Keighley's adoration for Kojima bordered on obsession so I'd take a punt on that.
I see this sentiment from time to time and all I'll say is, If Kojima was even half as bitter as Konami who were retroactively scrubbing his name off everything, and restricting his actions both on the Internet and physically, he had a whole year plus to air his dirty laundry and personal beef with Konami, but he didn't hell if Konami had a competent corporate brain cell they wouldn't have burned so many bridges in the public space that #Fuckonami even exists and the sympathy towards Kojima is so lop sided even if we find out Kojima banged the CEO's wife years later #Fuckonami would still be a thing.
May I know how you get to this conclusion? Interested to know.
Bad business is bad business. I don't see any scenario where what they did was justified and if he was that out of line he'd have been terminated and taken off MGSV. I cannot even imagine any situation the course of action they took made the most sense.
People proposed it as a possibility around the time this stuff went down, probably due to how incredibly petty Konami seemed to be acting.
Meh edited just in case, don't want to derail the thread. #FucKonami
Welp nevermind, too late lol
IIRC it has been mentioned somewhere that Kojima has a wife and a son.
CouchMaster
Member
Of course its legit, look at the expressions on House's face when he repeats fuck konami
Sure, in a way Kojima isn't totally guilt-free. He did waste a lot of Konami's money which probably would have warranted some level of intervention from any company. What Konami actually did was excessive and totally crazy. That kind of cutting off a director-level employee from freedom of access to his own work & team is not something you do to any employee unless your employee is Donald Trump levels of despicable scum who shouldn't be let into the spotlight of any self respecting company.
Thinking Kojima must have molested the CEO's son or had sex with his wife is dumb. Not every story has an understandable "other side" that balances out the story so that both sides are equally bad. We know how bad the working conditions at Konami have been (even by Japanese standards they seem to cross some lines that some other (almost equally) bad companies don't), it's far more probable that Kojima's treatment is just a continuation of that instead of Kojima doing something so bad that we should treat Konami with a "sure, their treatment of Kojima was kinda bad but I'm sure there's a whole other side of the story we haven't heard that explains everything!"
I'd almost understand some of Konami's behaviour if Kojima had said some nasty stuff publicly but at most he might've been a bit disrespectful at his superiors at Konami in private. Even then, I've never gotten the impression Kojima is the kind of person who yells profanities at people he doesn't like or disagrees with or that he wishes Beelzebub himself to come from the depths of hell to rape someone's wife to their face or anything like that that might warrant some stricter actions within the company. We've heard enough of Konami's treatment of their workforce & other stuff to make educated guesses that this was Konami execs going totally haywire on Kojima and his team for no good reason.
It reached really high levels of adoration almost immediately after release and for a good reason (it had a neat concept executed extremely well, did horror really well + had great graphics & audio design). Being deleted from the shop had nothing to do with that. Mostly it just made people angry at Konami and other people desperate to preserve the demo or play it. Being removed from being downloaded does give it a sort of special status but I don't feel it actually makes people think it's better than it is.
Silent Hills was cancelled in 2015, not "a few years ago".
SatelliteOfLove
Member
OK, #FucKonami is still a company ran by an asshole since 2000, but this is getting wierd...
You're just making up supposed accusations and saying it didn't happen. We don't know what happened. We do know Konami behaved terribly and that Konami's a Hollywood obsessed diva.
All I'm saying is this blind Kojima adoration is getting ridiculous.
Edit: You're delusional if you think deleting it didn't influence the overall buzz around it and I really liked PT. It's normal human behavior, kind of like everyone raved about Okami's credits when they removed them from the Wii version.
RustyNails
Member
Kojima takes his time. But look at the accolades Metal Gear games get. MGS4 won GAF GOTY twice for fuck's sake. It sold 6 million copies on a single platform. Konami just slaughtered it's golden goose.
Of course they did. But unless KojiPro was bleeding, there was no need to shitcan it.
Why not?Good games take time, especially ones helmed by prolific directors like Kojima, Ueda, Miyazaki, etc.
A smallish French Studio got these two in their game. I'm sure Konami could have afforded GDT and Norman Reedus.
Konami destroyed it's console gaming footprint because they wanted quick profits. Sure it's understandable
That's not the point.
King Tubby
Member
Konami didn't fuck up by exiting the (non-gambling) gaming industry. That's business, it happens, we will miss you, god bless. They fucked up by grossly mishandling their exit and disrespecting a genius creative talent who has made them hundreds of millions of dollars and bolstered the reputation of the company. It's the way they handled things that baffles and frustrates people.
Transistor
Banned
Bingo
What is it gonna take to get him to star on the Jimquisition?
Jim's making a big push on his end, at least. I hope there's a payout.
Kojima takes his time. But look at the accolades Metal Gear games get. MGS4 won GAF GOTY twice for fuck's sake. It sold 6 million copies on a single platform. Konami just slaughtered it's golden goose.
Of course they did. But unless KojiPro was bleeding, there was no need to shitcan it.
Why not?Good games take time, especially ones helmed by prolific directors like Kojima, Ueda, Miyazaki, etc.
A smallish French Studio got these two in their game. I'm sure Konami could have afforded GDT and Norman Reedus.
Konami destroyed it's console gaming footprint because they wanted quick profits. Sure it's understandable
That's not the point.
Konami is a conglomerate business. They don't care about GOTYs, they care about making a return on investment.
A mobile game can cost around a million dollars to make, be published in 6 months.
And the team can be making another one if it isn't successful pretty much straight away.
Risk is the key thing here. Having a years of development, in the case of MGSV at least 4 years, means that staff costs are high. If it flops that a massive loss that can seriously impact the company.
The executive committee have a duty to shareholders.
Things like cancelling a metal gear game and then contracting it out (Rising) does not endear the the subsidiary to the ExCo.
MGSV was not a complete game. Fine they locked him.away from his team for 6 months. There's no way it could have been completed if he had been there. Kojima's vision would have taken longer to complete.
Would the game have sold more if it was complete? It got great reviews regardless. The answer really is probably not in any meaningful way to the balance sheet.
FFXV is the same, it could have been delayed another year to complete it but would that have lead to more sales?
These are the kinds of decisions that they have to make. Because the money the company spends is their investor's money.
Also the fact is that mobile games are not a fad. There is more revenue there than traditional console/PC games.
I like how the narrative that Kojima is a huge budget sink who never meets his deadlines has sinked in. As far as I'm aware the only (unconfirmed, rumored) number we ever got was a Budget of 80 Million Dollars which is completely unremarkable for a AAA game, selling 5 million copies of The Phantom Pain in the first 2 months, 1 million copies of Ground Zeroes, providing a constant revenue stream with microtransactions and releasing one of the best received games of this generation. It arrived 5 years after the last MGS release, which also includes the development of one of the most powerfull engines in the business that was originally supposed to also power all of Konami's future projects. I seriously just cannot see how these points of data could lead anyone to the conclusion that he takes way too much time and money to make a game. It's especially weird since Kojima himself acts as the Producer so he's especially conscious and aware of this stuff. I clearly remember an interview where Kojima talked about this and how much budget and deadlines actually do matter to him - obviously there are still delays and budget problems, but there is no video game that doesn't have those.
Unknown One
Member
Can't believe somebody tried to justify locking a man in a room for 6 months.
Pretty much
Chaos2Frozen
Member
The 80 million dollar budget was an unconfirmed rumor that people latched on to justify Konami's actions.
Uuhh a freaking James Cameron movie is a more of a surefire bet to recover the cost and then some (understatement) than any video game.
Not defending Konami but that isn't hard to grasp.
Well I wouldn't be surprised at all. The game and the fox engine were both in development for a long time. Let's not forget there's the aborted MGS:Rising was supposed to be using it.
It honestly doesn't matter. Konami is transitioning out of video games, there would've been no place for KojiPro regardless. I'd really like to real exposé on what happened there with Kojima, the treatment he got was awful, and extreme. He went from being vice president to being treated like trash.
Wishmaster92
Member
At this point i am dead certain death stranding is the continuation of p.t but under a different title name. GDT has said Fuck Konami quite a couple of times enough to get me thinking if this is deliberate. Now that he's involved with DS this can be a "fuck you Konami, we all hate you" then finally unveil what this game really is: a clear continuation of p.t and a sort of "haha fuck you Konami, you didn't let us make this game but we are still making it"
Remember this was data mined from the p.t demo. This doesn't sound like a multi-platform game? Certainly couldn't be silent hill.
Wireless pachinko confirmed
ginger ninja
Banned
The destroyer of multiple franchises and being known for treating acclaimed developers terribly, but lo and behold, Konami got defenders. I swear man..
It's probably more than that considering the development time and two studios.
Yep. Even then it's absurd and dumb considering the incredibly inhumane working conditions at Konami. A game going over budget doesn't warrant that treatment of employees, or people in general.
drotahorror
Member
To me it's not just PT. It's the loss of all their IP's. Konami threw away 3 decades of some of the most popular and well known series. Imo, this is why 'fuck konami' is still relevant and will likely be relevant for a very long time. This is a company that was there from the beginning and is no more.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
damn, del Toro don't give a FUCK!
<3
<3
Chaos2Frozen
Member
The problem is that is sounds "plausible" enough that people just go with the assumption that it's true.
This isn't the case with what we know about Konami's shitty employee treatment from multiple accounts and examples, it's just one seemingly plausible sounding rumor that people take/assumed as the truth.
