reptilescorpio
Member
Australian policies for those seeking refuge are barbaric and self serving, zero justification for the way politicians treat them. It's so damn hard to get through the media brainwashing too 
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German "Handelsblatt" calls Australia a torture state
- Thread starter Fantastapotamus
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KonradLaw
Member
I think the system itself (ie..catching the boats midway, denyind asylum to anyone who tries to get on the boats) is good and eventually it's inevitable Europe will have to copy it.
That said, I fail to see what's the point of then keeping those island camps in such shitty state. I mean, they shouldn't get luxuries, but basic human standards, health care etc should be provided.
That said, I fail to see what's the point of then keeping those island camps in such shitty state. I mean, they shouldn't get luxuries, but basic human standards, health care etc should be provided.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
As opposed to Germany and Sweden where sexual violence is common against women and children in the centres, and where Christians especially face harassment.
"The myth that there are "too many" refugees for western countries to handle is crazy - it all fails because nationalists and many conservatives don't want to share their riches"
What riches? my town for the last decade has been designated for asylum seeker dispersal... It's a shithole, it's poor, it never recovered from thatcher or the loss of industry and unemployment is high.
If the rich and middle class want to sate their belly feels then they can take them into their suburbia and ivory towers and they pay for it out of their own pockets.
"The myth that there are "too many" refugees for western countries to handle is crazy - it all fails because nationalists and many conservatives don't want to share their riches"
What riches? my town for the last decade has been designated for asylum seeker dispersal... It's a shithole, it's poor, it never recovered from thatcher or the loss of industry and unemployment is high.
If the rich and middle class want to sate their belly feels then they can take them into their suburbia and ivory towers and they pay for it out of their own pockets.
d00d3n
Member
The German official is acutely aware of this, but will escape any responsibility by shifting over the problem to the Mediterranean countries. We will in Sweden as well. When all border countries have implemented the Australian system with our implied consent, our officials will still try and condemn the system with fancy rhetoric. Please don't be fooled by our empty words, international observers.
...I mean, isn't that the very definition of not wanting to share the riches? The fact that asylum seeker dispersal was designated to a poor working-class area with what sounds like little to no support structures in place?
KonradLaw
Member
Yeah. We're already seeing this. Macedonia, Hungary and Austria getting tough on the issue, while Sweden and Germany pretending to be outraged, while in reality thanking their fortunes the border countries finally got fed up enough to do something about it.
ClosingADoor
Member
Just saying that the German policy makers and public have no problem doing the same, as does every other country. If you can't see it, it doesn't matter.
Germany - and other EU countries - also dump the problem on other countries or look the other way. I don't see what Australia is doing as that unique in that way.
That's what European countries are trying all the time and you can't deny someones asylum, when he is legitimate to have one.
So nothing of this works.
Not a lot has changed since 2014 except the same people are in those camps still with no certainty about their futures and they have started burning themselves to death.
Australia's politicians are guilty of condoning torture, and in the case of the immigration ministers since this started, guilty of implementing it.
KonradLaw
Member
Austria man...
What? He's saying the truth. Heck.It makes even more sense in Europe. Right now smugglers put people in dinky boats, sail few miles and the moment they see any EU vessel they capsize their own boat to be rescued.
Rescuing them is necessary of course, but then instead of just dropping those people on the the coast they just started from, they ferry them through the whole sea, right into EU.
It's not like Austria wants to starts torturing people. When they say they want to use australian model they simply mean "catching up boats in the sea, returning people to shore they've sailed from or into processing camps in island". In those camps people will be able to get their asylum application processed. If they get it they will go into one of the EU countries that volunteered to recieve refugees. Those who get denied will be ferried back to middle east or africa.
Australia is using what amounts to torture as a deterrent for possible people fleeing from war.
Nope, sorry, germany is not doing that. There is quite a lot wrong with what germany does for asylum seekers, but there is a conscious effort to allow asylum seeker to integrate and the chance to a normal life, despite the terrible and embarassing organisational mistakes.
ClosingADoor
Member
What are the wars currently going on near Australia?
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Are you trying to say that these people don't have a valid claim to asylum? Because we already established that thats not the case:
Very first post.
KonradLaw
Member
Of course you can. There's just no political will to do it. Unlike in australia, almost nobody who enters EU through sea has legitimate claim to asylum, since they either are from a safe country or have passed through multiple safe countries on their way.
What EU fleets need to start doing is to put people back into the shore they've started from or at most sail into island with processing camps. What they can't continue to do indefinitely is ferry people into mainland EU. Because in Greece the border is already closed down and Austria is willing to do the same with Italy.
And it's much easier to contain and control asylum seeker on the islands. It's pretty much impossible on the land. Terrorists can easily slip through and among those who get denied asylum over half never gets deported or simply vanish into underground.
ClosingADoor
Member
How were these figures before this kind of check was implemented?
Reading this thread is depressing, because we see how people don't actually give a shit, or read before posting, because their mind is already made up.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Does that matter? The article is two years old, so the figures already were like that back in 2014, and the situation for refugees hasn't improved since, which is not surprising given that the inhuman stance of the australian government and the indifference of the australian general public hasn't changed.
ClosingADoor
Member
Of course it matters. If before 10% were actual refugees and now 90%, then that is a big improvement and actually a good policy to first check people before letting them into your country. However, the figures about this are totally unclear and I can't find an actual objective source for recent years. So maybe I'm totally wrong, that's why I'm asking.
Nobody is excusing the abuse taking place, that needs to be fixed of course. But first checking people and then letting them into your country is not a bad policy.
jellies_two
Member
That's the killer. Sydney is looking like Chelsea in London except instead of gulf state rich kids its the young offspring of china based oligarchy dropping cash for all the flash toys meanwhile there are these refugees basically held at permanent gunpoint in pacific island state concentration camps as an "example", to deter anyone else who dares to come without money from thinking of making the trip.
The government even pays for ads to play, back in Indonesia basically. All but saying: look what we're doing to your friends don't even think about it. Meanwhile they are telling voters that once pleasant cities must be torn up to re-do infrastructure because we simply must accept a million more (wealthy migrants) over the next 10 years.
Australia once accepted lots of economic migrants (barely a step above refugees) from Greece, Italy, Vietnam, Cambodia and so on. These formed vital communities and made up large chunks of the fabric of the aussie society, now however the government thinks it is exporting higher education services - when mainly thats a route to get kids of the upper classes in Asia a western visa - and business investors - when mainly that's a route for relatives to bury money into western property, and they're holding poorer people they aren't interested in, at gunpoint. Or worse, they don't have the balls to do that themselves, so they pay pacific nations to do it for them, so they don't have to get their hands dirty. They won't even resettle them in ANOTHER western country even though NZ (for example) offered, because that would be seen as a REWARD for making the trip by boat without first trying the embassy (and getting rejected). So they are held, like heads on stakes on the walls, and no media is allowed to investigate because its a crime to reveal government policy.
If you want to see the madness of Trump type logic with respect to (say) Mexicans, then come to Australia.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
austrian politicians being dumb, news at 11
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I'd say the Handelsblatt is a reliable source.
They are probably referencing this:
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/face-facts-asylum-seekers-and-refugees
Depends on the way people are trying to get to Australia. I'd think that most ways into Australia for refugees are so dangerous that it would be irresponsible to not let them in.
If they're really not eligible for asylum you can send them back safely later.
ClosingADoor
Member
I'd say, because it is so dangerous, we shouldn't encourage people to make that journey because they have a good chance of dying. Work with the UN and take in people through their programs and from their refugee centers mostly.
Seems the 90% is taken over the last 6 years at that time, so 2008-2014. Indeed a bit strange to then make that big a deal over that 10%.
If you don't want people to take the dangerous journey you either help improve the situation in their home, or help them get somewhere safely instead.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
It's actually the fear of them living off of taxpayers money, being housed for free and not learning any English. It's the fear of "them taking all our money and hiding away from society, not contributing and smacking their heads on the ground 3 times a day" as I heard it put not two weeks ago.
I haven't heard anything about seekers getting jobs, all of the fear mongering I've heard is about them NOT getting jobs.
ClosingADoor
Member
If you take in people from the UN refugee camps, you can transport them safely to your country and help them.
Maybe I've just listened to a different diversity of racism than you have. There is no end to the excuses that come out of the mouths of people who have swallowed the arguments of fearmongering politicians.
Now again, in what way do some questionable decisions of Germany's - and other EU countries - foreign policy equal Australia's disgusting treating of refugees in their own country?
So you are saying the Australian model is "to keep our selves out of concerns and rather bring people to the place, where they straight up die".
Oh, there we are already. I'm out.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
True that, mate.
there's a nice minority going around...
Subpar Scrub
Banned
Don't ask questions only to leave the thread because you read something you hate. Question it, present your own arguments and say what you wish to say. These comments do nothing and are in bad taste.
Subpar Scrub
Banned
I was just wondering. No need to be cryptic or sarcastic about it lol
This is a problem the whole world is failing to address right now. People trying to take the journey by boat would be a non-issue if they were all being adequately served by conventional means. But everyone's happy to cherry pick the best people and leave the rest twiddling their thumbs and waiting to die in a camp then get all angry and surprised when they try to take their fates back into their own hands.
No need to apologize if it still applies. Some people just want to bury this under the carpet.
Was never my intention haha
You see, due to the divisive politics generated from the Abbott times, I havn't seen so much hate for those of middle eastern descent, then you see a lot of armchair retards trying to interpret the ways of Islamic culture and so forth...
Then you see groups like ALA and reclaim australia trying to push their own agendas... but from the way I see it... what are they trying to achieve??? As far as I am aware, I don't see Sharia Law being enforced unless someone would like to enlighten me here
KonradLaw
Member
You don't follow the news from Europe, don't you? Merely two days ago group of syrians (at least one of then a refugee) planning suicide bombings was arrested in Germany.
Of course most of migrants aren't terrorists. But we're talking about flood of millions of people streaming into EU in span of few years. You really don't think at least couple of them might be terrorists? Come on. If you want to sneak into EU and you're on various terror watch lists posing as refugee is easily your best bet.
I don't see why I should start picking every aspect of points from posts apart that drift without context into foreign policy and deeper layers of problems but over-simplifying them by putting them on a level to this case or going into abstract fantasy-like solutions free of consequences. So asking basic questions that can obviously not be answered by these posters isn't a bad thing imo.
Yep, putting all of them on islands, where innocents from child age are commiting suicide, is a better solution because some might be terrorists.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Australia is still doing this, so thank you for bringing it to more people's attention. Australia's policies are fucking awful. Especially considering their history.. Hypocrites.
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