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[BladeWorker]

I want to do it but everybody keeps telling me not to... I don't want to go too short, maybe just bellow the shoulders or a tiny bit longer than that as opposed to up to my boobs length. I like long hair but it is such a hassle to take care of.

I have saved hundreds on shampoo by not having three feet of hair to wash daily.

 

[shanshan310]

At least we always have the menstration topic to fall back on.

ha! That's one way to get rid of the guys. But a few pages back when we were talking about clothes there was nary a man in sight. I think if we just continue talking about girly things they'll give up on trying to derail the thread.

 

[ikkemenx]

Dramatic haircuts always make me think of this. :3

I plan on going for a long bob soon. Have kept my hair long pretty much my entire life but I really love short styles. Problem is they'd only look good with my hair straight (my hair is impossibly curly) and it's a hassle to flatiron it all. I'd rather not have to do it often, either, since it's so damaging.

 

[Devolution]

My hair is pretty short right now. Longest hairs are my bangs which can't be more than 3-4 inches.

 

[peach]

You want to get married or do you want to have a wedding? One's fun, the other's work.

This! We are getting married this summer but in Punta Cana. Screw all the planning and money - make it fun!

 

[Slavik81]

Anyone ever cut off a bunch of hair after having it long for a long time?

I did this recently and it feels amazing. Though, it took me a while to convince the boyfriend to be cool with it, but he digs it now though so it wasn't really a huge deal. It did seem like everyone else was way more attached to my hair than I was. Even my sister was asking me why I'd want to cut it so short. I guess there was a hint of that "look like a boy" fear, but I never thought it would be a problem. I guess it's because a lot of people attach femininity to long hair? I feel way more feminine now than I did with my hair at its previous length. Mostly because I feel I look much cuter/spunky than I did before.

I'm kind of amazed how people keep long hair. I'm a guy and grew my hair out somewhat, but it was a lot of work. When I cut it off, my head felt so much lighter, too. I can only imagine this is doubly true for people with truly long hair.

More humorously, I'm now questioned when doing anything requiring photo id. Funny how a simple haircut can totally change your appearance.

 

[Professor Beef]

I'm gone for the day to visit some relatives, and some whip-cracking happens? Oh dear. Also...

You are a Digimon fan, you should be used to that feeling by now.

 

[Devolution]

Did my post get deleted? I could've swore I just posted, I was genuinely curious too.

Guess I'll ask again: Girl-GAF, what makes you like a female character aside from realistic body proportions?

Forgot to answer this. Clothing. How she carries herself. Being good at what she does. The biggest piss off is when we're told this woman is good and possibly the best at what she does but at some point she yields to a man.

What they did to Samus was depressing as well.

 

[Professor Beef]

Forgot to answer this. Clothing. How she carries herself. Being good at what she does. The biggest piss off is when we're told this woman is good and possibly the best at what she does but at some point she yields to a man.

What they did to Samus was depressing as well.

You know, I never did play or watch any footage from Other M. Were people just exaggerating, or was there a nugget of truth to how much Samus changed?

 

[Aeana]

You know, I never did play or watch any footage from Other M. Were people just exaggerating, or was there a nugget of truth to how much Samus changed?

People misinterpreted the Japanese standard master/student relationship story for sexism and blew it way out of proportion.

 

[shanshan310]

I honestly don't think "realistic body proportions" come into what makes a good female lead. She doesn't have to be a nun. Sexy can be good.

I can't think of what makes me like female characters, but if you look at Bella from Twilight you will see exactly who I'm not thinking of. Chick has very little personality, is whiney (she was complaining about how much it sucked that people were giving her presents), follows her man blindly and cannot see his faults, is obsessive and whose only goal in life is to get married at 18 and have kids right away. Where is the adventure? Were is the sassiness and the fun? Its quite honestly pretty boring to have characters like that.

I mean, of course I want to get married and have kids at some point, but not at 18. I love people with their faults, I don't ignore them.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, expectations for women have really flipped in the last 50 years. It seems that now it is expected that a women will go on and have a long career, not have kids till 35+ and even then continue working. What is not really socially acceptable is that a woman get married and settle down right away. I don't know what you guys think of all this. I personally don't mind, I'll be happy as long as I'm able to use my Japanese skills and I'm with my man. People have given me weird looks about it ("don't you want to explore? Why are you only with one guy?") but he's my best friend, and I'm happy. He's not tying me down, I can still have a career. I don't get it really.

 

[Devolution]

I honestly don't think "realistic body proportions" come into what makes a good female lead. She doesn't have to be a nun. Sexy can be good.

I can't think of what makes me like female characters, but if you look at Bella from Twilight you will see exactly who I'm not thinking of. Chick has very little personality, is whiney (she was complaining about how much it sucked that people were giving her presents), follows her man blindly and cannot see his faults, is obsessive and whose only goal in life is to get married at 18 and have kids right away. Where is the adventure? Were is the sassiness and the fun? Its quite honestly pretty boring to have characters like that.

I mean, of course I want to get married and have kids at some point, but not at 18. I love people with their faults, I don't ignore them.

Bella is the epitome of Mary Sue.

People misinterpreted the Japanese standard master/student relationship story for sexism and blew it way out of proportion.

I didn't really think it was sexist so much as uncharacteristic and dumb.

 

[Aeana]

I didn't really think it was sexist so much as uncharacteristic and dumb.

The baby.

 

[_Isaac]

I honestly don't think "realistic body proportions" come into what makes a good female lead. She doesn't have to be a nun. Sexy can be good.

I can't think of what makes me like female characters, but if you look at Bella from Twilight you will see exactly who I'm not thinking of. Chick has very little personality, is whiney (she was complaining about how much it sucked that people were giving her presents), follows her man blindly and cannot see his faults, is obsessive and whose only goal in life is to get married at 18 and have kids right away. Where is the adventure? Were is the sassiness and the fun? Its quite honestly pretty boring to have characters like that.

I mean, of course I want to get married and have kids at some point, but not at 18. I love people with their faults, I don't ignore them.

It's funny that you mention that stuff about how she wanted to get married as soon as possible because the book addresses this notion. Yes, I read Eclipse. Anyway, Edward is the one that wants to get married, and Bella is turned off by it. She even says she'd hate to be one of those girls whose only goal in life is to get married at 18. I'm sure it's not the exact quote, but it was the same idea. Anyway, yeah she's a horrible character.

EDIT: This also kinda relates to how you said that expectations for women have changed. Before getting married young and starting a family was probably encouraged, but nowadays that's not really encouraged, and even Mary Sue characters like Bella scoff at it.

 

[Opiate]

Bella is the epitome of Mary Sue.

Is she really? I think of Mary Sue as an idealized character. To me, it seems her surroundings are idealized, rather than herself.

I haven't seen or read the books, to be fair. But to me, the comparison seemed closer a lazy, underachieving guy who nevertheless finds himself in extraordinary circumstances and manages to land the "hot chick." In that case, it isn't the lazy slacker that is idealized, it is the fantasy world that surrounds him.

 

[shanshan310]

It's funny that you mention that stuff about how she wanted to get married as soon as possible because the book addresses this notion. Yes, I read Eclipse. Anyway, Edward is the one that wants to get married, and Bella is turned off by it. She even says she'd hate to be one of those girls whose only goal in life is to get married at 18. I'm sure it's not the exact quote, but it was the same idea. Anyway, yeah she's a horrible character.

She says that but her actions speak the opposite. Her only goal in life is to become a vampire ASAP even though it means she won't be able to go to college etc. Even if she's mot keen on marriage the idea is the same. I don't know if you've read breaking dawn

Spoiler

do it, even if its just for the lulz

.

 

[Devolution]

Is she really? I think of Mary Sue as an idealized character. To me, it seems her surroundings are idealized, rather than herself.

I haven't seen or read the books, to be fair. But to me, the comparison seemed closer a lazy, underachieving guy who nevertheless finds himself in extraordinary circumstances and nevertheless gets the "hot chick." In that case, it isn't the lazy slacker that is idealized, it is the fantasy world that surrounds him.

You've watched the movies no? Have you ever thought to yourself just why the fuck are two guys fighting over this moody personality-less douchebag? She's a Mary Sue that isn't meant to have a personality or presence. Readers, which would most likely be teenage girls, are just supposed to project unto her.

 

[_Isaac]

She says that but her actions speak the opposite. Her only goal in life is to become a vampire ASAP even though it means she won't be able to go to college etc. Even if she's mot keen on marriage the idea is the same. I don't know if you've read breaking dawn

Spoiler

do it, even if its just for the lulz

.

I haven't read Breaking Dawn. I was just pointing it out because she's very much the type of person that gets married young and obsessed with her man, but she looks down on that very behavior. I just thought it was funny.

 

[suzu]

In the case of Bella/Twilight, I think that the character is just serving as a wish fulfillment fantasy (aka mary sue) for the author. lol.

 

[Professor Beef]

EDIT: Now that I think about it, expectations for women have really flipped in the last 50 years. It seems that now it is expected that a women will go on and have a long career, not have kids till 35+ and even then continue working. What is not really socially acceptable is that a woman get married and settle down right away. I don't know what you guys think of all this. I personally don't mind, I'll be happy as long as I'm able to use my Japanese skills and I'm with my man. People have given me weird looks about it ("don't you want to explore? Why are you only with one guy?") but he's my best friend, and I'm happy. He's not tying me down, I can still have a career. I don't get it really.

That right there creeps me out.

As for the expectations flipping, it has been a bit jarring from a male's POV. Not necessarily in a bad way, but (and I say this only from personal experience, and not as a be-all end-all) it seems like some women are doing it just to say that they can. I also know some women who really enjoy being able to stay working at what they like while having a family, and in the end I guess that's what really matters.

 

[_Isaac]

You've watched the movies no? Have you ever thought to yourself just why the fuck are two guys fighting over this moody personality-less douchebag? She's a Mary Sue that isn't meant to have a personality or presence. Readers, which would most likely be teenage girls, are just supposed to project unto her.

I had the same thoughts regarding Eric and Bill fighting over Sookie on True Blood. She is the worst character on that show. I need to stop watching/reading trashy stuff. :/

 

[Agent Cooper]

She says that but her actions speak the opposite. Her only goal in life is to become a vampire ASAP even though it means she won't be able to go to college etc. Even if she's mot keen on marriage the idea is the same. I don't know if you've read breaking dawn

Spoiler

do it, even if its just for the lulz

.

That book was a huge dissapointment. I tried to look past the whole Bella super baby thing to get to what was supposed to be a battle at the end

Spoiler

but ended up with a total count of one meaningless death and Jacob being a pedo.

 

[Teknoman]

You know what was awesome?

Jem was awesome.

Dont you mean outrageous?

The baby.

I just didnt like how she freaked out when meeting Ridley again. I mean c'mon, you've killed him once in Metroid, again in Prime 1, Prime 3, and Super. How do you freeze up like that when you've seen him ressurected 3 times?

 

[Teknoman]

.

 

[Dragon]

In the case of Bella/Twilight, I think that the character is just serving as a wish fulfillment fantasy (aka mary sue) for the author. lol.

I've heard stories of Robert Pattinson being afraid to death of her because of what she's said to him, so I don't think it's far off. A Mormon woman writing a story about a woman being able to choose between two men. Seems about right.

 

[shanshan310]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qcv1P1GI1jc
Yeah, he thinks he's crazy.

I had the same thoughts regarding Eric and Bill fighting over Sookie on True Blood. She is the worst character on that show. I need to stop watching/reading trashy stuff. :/

ha! Me too But somehow I always get pulled back in in some way or another.

Also daaaaaaaaaaym Jacob and Eric.

 

[Opiate]

You've watched the movies no? Have you ever thought to yourself just why the fuck are two guys fighting over this moody personality-less douchebag? She's a Mary Sue that isn't meant to have a personality or presence. Readers, which would most likely be teenage girls, are just supposed to project unto her.

I have watched nothing, read nothing, seen nothing. All of my understanding of the universe comes from off hand reports. That's why I asked it as a question -- I fully acknowledge I could be quite wrong. I think at this point we're discussing what a Mary Sue is.

I think these are two different things: a Mary Sue is, to me, an idealized form of myself (or herself). It is still fantasy, but the fantasy is supposed to be to imagine yourself being this amazing, flawless person.

By contrast, I was saying that the character in Twilight is a blank slate. She is deliberately bland and ordinary, because the fantasy isn't supposed to be "imagine you are as amazing as Bella", the fantasy is supposed to be "imagine you are surrounded by these amazing men like Bella is."

Again, I think we're now simply discussing the definition of a Mary Sue. Not that this isn't an interesting discussion in itself.

 

[Devolution]

I have watched nothing, read nothing, seen nothing. All of my understanding of the universe comes from off hand reports.

That's why I asked it as a question. I think at this point we're discussing what a Mary Sue is.

I think these are two different things: a Mary Sue is, to me, an idealized form of myself (or herself). It is still fantasy, but the fantasy is supposed to be to imagine yourself being this amazing, flawless person.

By contrast, I was saying that the character in Twilight is a blank slate. She is deliberately bland and ordinary, because the fantasy isn't supposed to be "imagine you are as amazing as Bella", the fantasy is supposed to be "imagine you are surrounded by these amazing men like Bella is."

Again, I think we're now simply discussing the definition of a Mary Sue. Not that this isn't an interesting discussion in itself.

Well one of the definitions of a Mary Sue is a 'wish fulfillment character'. You don't have to want to be as awesome as her, you can just pretend you are her with two "hot" guys wanting to bone you.

 

[shanshan310]

I always thought Mary-Sue was the writer/ reader projecting themselves into the book.

IE. fanfiction mary-sue's are about the author going to "the land of the book".

 

[Opiate]

Well one of the definitions of a Mary Sue is a 'wish fulfillment character'. You don't have to want to be as awesome as her, you can just pretend you are her with two "hot" guys wanting to bone you.

So what idyllic fantasy does not qualify as a "Mary Sue?" Honest question.

I can fantasize about being someone amazing, or fantasize about being surrounded by amazing things. I actually struggle to think of idyllic fantasies which do not fit the definition of "Mary Sue," as you are defining it.

 

[Zoe]

I always thought Mary-Sue was the writer/ reader projecting themselves into the book.

IE. fanfiction mary-sue's are about the author going to "the land of the book".

That's the definition I've always known.

 

[Agent Cooper]

I always thought Mary-Sue was the writer/ reader projecting themselves into the book.

IE. fanfiction mary-sue's are about the author going to "the land of the book".

That's a toughie. I write/read fanfic, so usually I see Mary Sues as an OC the author made up, who's so perfect and amazing. What you described would be self insert, and usually with those they make themselves perfect and amazing. The lines be blurred.
I don't know why I'm responding lol I'm tired.

 

[Opiate]

I always thought Mary-Sue was the writer/ reader projecting themselves into the book.

IE. fanfiction mary-sue's are about the author going to "the land of the book".

I had thought it was specifically about imaging an ideal version of themselves. As in, taking themselves and imagining a perfected version of their own character.

 

[_Isaac]

I always thought a Mary Sue was pretty much a bland and empty shell of a person so someone can easily place themselves in that character's shoes and fulfill their wishes that way. So in the case of Twilight, people love it because Bella is just an avatar they use so Cedric Diggory and Sharkboy can shower them with attention.

 

[Devolution]

I always thought a Mary Sue was pretty much a bland and empty shell of a person so someone can easily place themselves in that character's shoes and fulfill their wishes that way. So in the case of Twilight, people love it because Bella is just an avatar they use so Cedric Diggory and Sharkboy can shower them with attention.

I think it's all of these things people are saying. I guess I should technically call Bella a "proxy". She's written just shallow enough for insecure teenage girls to live out their ideal fantasies of two hot special guys being all into them.

 

[Opiate]

I recommend we all just unite around our dislike of Twilight. Proxy, Mary Sue, Fantasy or wish fulfillment -- perhaps we will not agree on the precise term needed.

What we can all agree on is that it is bad.

 

[Devolution]

I recommend we all just unite around our dislike of Twilight. Proxy, Mary Sue, Fantasy or wish fulfillment -- perhaps we will not agree on the precise term needed.

What we can all agree on is that it is bad.

Yes it's terrible. And Edward is a creep. Yeah girls I went there.

 

[Prax]

Oh man, I have read all sorts of things on Mary-Sues because people throw the term left and right...

I think it most boils down to a character that gets way more attention than they deserve. This includes way more attention from the author, all the crazy bonuses (powers, skills, characteristics), and way more attention from their setting and other characters than it seems like they should have.

This character can be a wish-fulfillment character, an author insert, or just a really poorly developed character that gets too much attention. Any of those things and it will get labelled as a Mary-Sue. They get labelled that way because they come off as unrealistic to many people and kind of destroys the believability of the setting they are in.

On the other hand, some authors or character creators are so afraid of making a Mary-Sue that they go into the total opposite direction and create awful or uninteresting characters anyway!

 

[shanshan310]

oh yeah, I forgot. Bella has magic powers. That kind of makes her "amazing and special" right?

Edward IS creepy, and Robert Patterson is not attractive. Might go see breaking dawn for the lulz though. (Vampire teeth C-section and Alien style birth )

 

[suzu]

He invades peoples' minds, stalks Bella all the time, sneaks into her room to watch her sleep, and oh yeah he wants to eat her too. So dreamy.

 

[shanshan310]

He invades peoples' minds, stalks Bella all the time, sneaks into her room to watch her sleep, and oh yeah he wants to eat her too. So dreamy.

"You don't understand! He only does that because he loves her!"

 

[Kisaya]

Bella is amazing and special because no one can really figure out what the hell she is.

 

[Devolution]

"You don't understand! He only does that because he loves her!"

You also forgot "it's okay because he's hot*!"

*I personally don't find him hot but I assume anyone defending his bullshit would.

 

[luxarific]

You've all read the Mormon mythology breakdown of the novels, right? Hilarious.

 

[ashmountains]

Oooh, Twilight bashing! Have you guys actually read the books or watched the movies? I haven't watched any of the movies, but I did read the first book. One of my childhood friends actually bought the book and mailed it to me all the way from America (I'm in Australia) just so I can join her on the hypetrain. It did not work. The book is still sitting on my bookshelf. It's hogging a lot of space since it's so thick, and I want to throw it away, but I'd feel bad for doing that after all the effort my friend went through to get it to me :/

Curse you, fat space-hogging Twilight!

 

[Kisaya]

Oooh, Twilight bashing! Have you guys actually read the books or watched the movies? I haven't watched any of the movies, but I did read the first book. One of my childhood friends actually bought the book and mailed it to me all the way from America (I'm in Australia) just so I can join her on the hypetrain. It did not work. The book is still sitting on my bookshelf. It's hogging a lot of space since it's so thick, and I want to throw it away, but I'd feel bad for doing that after all the effort my friend went through to get it to me :/

Curse you, fat space-hogging Twilight!

I read every book, watched every movie.
Fun, but not good. Not good at all.

 

[timetokill]

I think the thing with Bella is that she also becomes, like, the best vampire ever at the end of the books.

So she's basically a paper-thin, personality-less droid with a do-nothing character "flaw" of "oh I'm so clumsy!" and yet, she has all the hottest guys in school falling all over themselves to be with her. Then she finally gets what she wants and becomes the greatest vampire of all time.

The end.

 

[_Isaac]

Why are there spoilers in this thread?

 

[Kisaya]

I think the thing with Bella is that she also becomes, like, the best vampire ever at the end of the books.

So she's basically a paper-thin, personality-less droid with a do-nothing character "flaw" of "oh I'm so clumsy!" and yet, she has all the hottest guys in school falling all over themselves to be with her. Then she finally gets what she wants and becomes the greatest vampire of all time.

The end.

Yup. She didn't have to sacrifice anything. She got everything that she wanted.
Sigh.

 

[timetokill]

Why are there spoilers in this thread?

Is that a spoiler? I thought it was common knowledge?