Dude Abides
Banned
Make Baylor great again!
Too late for Ken Starr though.
Too late for Ken Starr though.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
GOP wants to remove Sexual Assault as part of Title IX Harassment
- Thread starter NervousXtian
- Start date
- Status
You asked a question and I answered it.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
In the abstract, I am perfectly fine with pushing back against the overreach of colleges in recent years, wherein people are able to be disciplined or even expelled for unproven allegations, a fact even legal experts have spoken out against in multiple forums. "Innocent until proven guilty" may be a strictly legal maxim, but it's a legal maxim because it's a good, fair way to treat people in and out of a court of law, unless you have reasonably compelling evidence as to a person's guilt other than the existence of an accusation.
As to whether it will be implemented in a way that doesn't leave victims out in the cold, well, it remains to be seen, but color me fucking skeptical.
As to whether it will be implemented in a way that doesn't leave victims out in the cold, well, it remains to be seen, but color me fucking skeptical.
Burglekutt
Member
No. You left a vague post that could have a couple different interpretations. If you have something to say, say it.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
They're women-hating shitbag cowards, that's how.
Burglekutt
Member
Or they just ask for due process
Yeah because they give a shit about due process in so many other aspects of our daily lives.
Or got to college!
Burglekutt
Member
but do you give a shit about due process?
The problem is that most schools rarely move forward with rape cases and insist on "handling" matters internally. Edit: this is at least in part the reason these students are suspended but not charged. It's bad for the reputation for the university to have publicity of this sort. There's a decent documentary called The Hunting Ground that covers the complexity of these issues.
To be perfectly honest, I suspect the real answer lies in improving how police deal with sexual assault and rape, and having sexual assault on a campus be treated like the heinous crime it would be anywhere else. But you'd have to change how the police treat rape / assault (which...you should be doing anyway) and have the local authorities deal with it.
Frankly, any solution that leaves the well-being of vulnerable students at the whims of the parasitic asshats who also run the NCAA is a bad one to me.
Burglekutt
Member
I think we agree on some things. every sexual assault case should be investigated by actual police, not college bureaucrats. But the issue still stands how do you protect the rights of the victim to feel safe in their enviroment but at the same time not punish the accused unless they are found guilty? Thats the ultimate question here.
Unknown One
Member
Heel turn? They been heel for decades.
Burglekutt
Member
shit post
It would be great to have conversations about actual issues instead of just making references to trump. Its becoming the new "Thanks Obama" meme
InfiniteBento
Member
Im happy to know that as a woman, I don't matter for shit aside from breeding purposes and cleaning.
And cook! And better that dinner is ready by the time the husband is back at home, or else.
Burglekutt
Member
how did you come to that conclusion?
Burglekutt
Member
60 more like it.
It's a valid reference.
It's literally a party that has gone on and on for years about values and morality and blah blah blah and then they go and rally behind Trump like nothing ever happened.
Pussy Grabber tape comes out and some folks went "oh yeah can't support this shit" but then was more likely he was going to win and then did win and some how "oh yeah gotta rally behind our leader"
So yes the fact that the leader of the GOP and soon to be president is a professed and proud sexual assaulter, is fucking relevant to his parties views on sexual assault.
It's very clear how seriously they take this issues, not at all.
Feels more like a few years tbqh. That's the real tragedy.
If I knew that I'd be in an advocacy group trying to fix it. :/
Though, I mean, you can use restraining orders and such to help provide some level of safety, but if you're stuck on a small campus, I don't know where that balance is yet. :/
Burglekutt
Member
Good. No institution other than the courts should be handling criminal accusations. Schools and universities should train specialist staff to support complainants emotionally and in preparing them mentally to take their case to the authorities, while laws should be made that every rape kit be tested within a certain period of time, it made illegal for a sentence to be reduced based on the impact it would have on a guilty defendant's career (aka: the Brock Turner situation - if you commit a crime, of course it should have an impact on your life!) and any safeguards required to minimise the risk of the complainant being asked irrelevant questions about their sex life/dress, etc., be introduced. However, given how difficult these cases are to handle correctly even by the proper authorities, schools should not be making any sort of ruling on such serious matters, or indeed any non-academic matter. The focus should be on getting justice for the right person, not convictions.
Burglekutt
Member
restraining orders can restrict the rights of an innocent person but a potential victim can be continuously tortured being around an assailant. Do we side with innocent until proven guilty, or guilty until proven innocent?
Maybe a bad way of putting it but the idea is either we emphasize that a person is innocent until proven guilty in accordance by law or that we put restrictions on people for simply being accused of crimes in order to protect victims
Yes. That's kind of the point of a two party system in this country. Please show me a list of GOP members not currently up Trumps ass?
These issues certainly have nuance and complications, but the GOP has proven itself time and time again to only have hypocrisy and apathy to offer.
The man at the top of the GOP with veto power and the bully pulpit, enjoys sexual assault and is proud of it. So when his party of ass kissers, takes on the mantle of issues regarding it, hell yes I question their motives and intent.
But they were already the heel.
Gotta be a nuclear heat heel ya know
As it stands, it's tipped against victims; so finding a better balance would be a movement towards protecting rape victims.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Plenty of them would agree with this..bet.
Hence the long-term solution being that we change the police culture around rape / assault - fix that, and the rest starts to fall into place.
Wow.
I mean there are definitely problems with Campuses policing themselves on these issues... they shouldnt be conducting their own investigations for sure...
But is that what republicans are worried about? No. They're worried that men's lives might be ruined becuase they assaulted someone.
I mean there are definitely problems with Campuses policing themselves on these issues... they shouldnt be conducting their own investigations for sure...
But is that what republicans are worried about? No. They're worried that men's lives might be ruined becuase they assaulted someone.
Burglekutt
Member
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/meet-republicans-speaking-out-against-trump-n530696
The GOP has actually said the same thing the DEMs have said which is that they will work with him on issues they agree with him and oppose him when they disagree.
http://thehill.com/policy/transport...lingness-to-work-with-trump-on-infrastructure
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/us/politics/democrats-house-senate.html?_r=0
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Yeah I'm actually for this. Fix the response to sexual assault by the police, don't make schools the new sexual assault police.
Burglekutt
Member
im cool with that. how would you do that without taking away freedom from someone not convicted of a crime?
Absolutely. But Chapter IX policy has the potential to also help on a unified front. At my university employees and students are required to take online training courses. That's the biggest difference the recent push has made. These training modules are surprisingly informative, which in itself helps educate the academic community on how to deal with potential situations. Sometimes the right course of action isn't always clear.
Burglekutt
Member
everyday math
Banned
Sad part is how brainwashed some fellow woman have become in thinking this is true. Feels bad.
Rockin' Ranger
Member
There's no due process rights for an athlete suspended from team activities of the coach decides they violated team rules and they are allowed due process before any punishment from the university.
There are many simple places to start. As I mentioned above, training at a university level is a good way to educate students on the subject. It's more prevalent than most think, especially at universities and is largely ignored. So education is clearly needed. It seems simple, but if it was, this wouldn't be such an issue. Training is a step in the right direction especially since this is likely the only official venue where sexual harassment and assault are talked about to students, employees and faculty.
There are numerous ways to make a little bit more effort. Another would be to change the way in which victims are generally questioned by both law enforcement and universities. The truth is, most victims do not come forward and the standard line of questioning does not help. This is one small example but my point is that identifying the things that lead to under-reporting (and ultimate lack of prosecution) and addressing them can help support victims without having any effect on the alleged rapist.
- Status