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Gran Turismo 5 Spec II |OT| - We Love DLC!

saladine1

Junior Member
I don't know why people are still clinging onto the notion that the modeling of cars takes precedence over everything else.
GT5 is testament to the fact that this type of thinking just isn't going to cut it for the future.
Outsourcing NEEDS to be a part of PD's strategy. So, we might get a few less polygons or something, so what?
If it means that The master and and his pupils can get more time to weave magic in other areas, then i'm all for it.

IGN's article is spot on in most cases and in particular my favourite subject...THE SOUNDS!!!
It's been done to death this subject but I can't stress enough that PD need to find a way to rectify this problem once and for all...
 

paskowitz

Member
I don't know why people are still clinging onto the notion that the modeling of cars takes precedence over everything else.
GT5 is testament to the fact that this type of thinking just isn't going to cut it for the future.
Outsourcing NEEDS to be a part of PD's strategy. So, we might get a few less polygons or something, so what?
If it means that The master and and his pupils can get more time to weave magic in other areas, then i'm all for it.

IGN's article is spot on in most cases and in particular my favourite subject...THE SOUNDS!!!
It's been done to death this subject but I can't stress enough that PD need to find a way to rectify this problem once and for all...

Yep.
 

amar212

Member
It "receives a lot of backlash" by game "journalists" and people that don't actually care about the game and are only looking for stuff to trash it, not by fans of the series.

Removing the cars adds nothing of value to the game. Keeping them does. The only acceptable solution is to replace them all, or most of them, by premium versions, which won't happen.

Both points 100% spot on.

I was so annoyed by that article, because you can find as much as *issues* at ANY OTHER DAMN GAME, but nobody *cries* or *gives a wise advices* to those developers.

It is so easy to shit over PD it is really unbearable. Nobody highlights awesome work they've done to GT5, real breakthroughs they've accomplished on PS3 hardware (and on current-gen in general), beautiful innovations they've introduced to the genre or new standards they've introduced into their own game - especially in the complete field of maintenance/ownership which is a cake that no other developer in the world is brave enough to bite. It's so much easier to beat the Standard/Sound horses to death because those are easy targets.

Hey "journalists", why don't you crap on other games that have none of the things that Gran Turismo 5 have in the overall package and can't provide even close level of experience regarding actual diversification in something called *motorsports*? I wonder why..

I refuse to believe that there are no car modelers out there in the world that are up to PD's standards. Look and Super GT 2 for rF2.

Those *modelers* do not speak Japanese nor would probably being able to work under scrutiny expected by PD. Also, it seems how SCEI have finally gave PD freedom to expand the studio further, so we can expect some improvements in that area soon.

Hey's i'm 100% in favor of keeping the standard models. They have their place as far as i'm concerned. But I just wonder if PD wants to hear how they're incompetent and/or lazy because they included standard cars in their game. Considering how obsessive they're about cars in general, that probably stung a little.

Outsourcing would be the way to go assuming that there's a lot of quality control going on. I still think that it would be best to allow PD to do the texturing after the modeling is done.

I still find Standards as something related to GTPSP/GT5 connectivity and I presume PD really didn't expect to get such crazy backslash about it. But if nothing, we can be certain it was one the main keys that allowed them to get more budget and start staff-expansions we're all aware of in last 12 months.

Outsourcing NEEDS to be a part of PD's strategy. So, we might get a few less polygons or something, so what?
IGN's article is spot on in most cases and in particular my favourite subject...THE SOUNDS!!!
It's been done to death this subject but I can't stress enough that PD need to find a way to rectify this problem once and for all...

They just need to work on the accuracy of sounds a bit, everything else is more than perfect.

It is also one of the craziest misconceptions around, because every other damn game outthere do not have actual sound production even close to PD's standards. In GT5 every car have full spatial surround sound mix, with every tyre being on it's own channel, exhausts have proper spatial-posture dependable of their actual position of the vehicle, as well as the engines. When other cars are approaching you have beautiful immersion of spatiality, and my favorite part - which is like it is in real life - is when the car in front totally kills your's car sound with its muffler when you gets in its proximity. Also, everything regarding that changes dependable of view-used and in real-time mix when you check the spots.

I would always take GT-style of doing sounds over having Kia C'eed sounding like a V6 monster or normal BMW 325 sounding like a GT2 machine. Having *attractive* sounds over *accurate* is no way a good thing and recent work done in GT5 thankfully shows that PD knows what they need to do and how their standard of not compromising accuracy for attractiveness will remain intact.

Too much *self-proclaimed wisdom* is living around Gran Turismo, while in the same time nobody are willing to cut the PD some slack and give them proper praise for their achievements and hard, hard work. Not even to speak about the fact how other games in the genre - especially their *competition* on the consoles - can't match or catch GT5 on number of fields, but they never got a single bit of criticism why they do not have everything that GT5 has. Hypocrisy and ignorance on the max level.

It is really a sad thing and totally undeserved.
 

Toxa

Junior Member
Personally there are lots of standard cars i drive a lot, so many of them that i find it hard to believe that they will all be upgraded to premium.

So i prefer to have them as standards that not having them at all.

same for me, Viper GTS R Team Oreca FTW !
 

saladine1

Junior Member
They just need to work on the accuracy of sounds a bit, everything else is more than perfect.

It is also one of the craziest misconceptions around, because every other damn game outthere do not have actual sound production even close to PD's standards. In GT5 every car have full spatial surround sound mix, with every tyre being on it's own channel, exhausts have proper spatial-posture dependable of their actual position of the vehicle, as well as the engines. When other cars are approaching you have beautiful immersion of spatiality, and my favorite part - which is like it is in real life - is when the car in front totally kills your's car sound with its muffler when you gets in its proximity. Also, everything regarding that changes dependable of view-used and in real-time mix when you check the spots.

I would always take GT-style of doing sounds over having Kia C'eed sounding like a V6 monster or normal BMW 325 sounding like a GT2 machine. Having *attractive* sounds over *accurate* is no way a good thing and recent work done in GT5 thankfully shows that PD knows what they need to do and how their standard of not compromising accuracy for attractiveness will remain intact.

Too much *self-proclaimed wisdom* is living around Gran Turismo, while in the same time nobody are willing to cut the PD some slack and give them proper praise for their achievements and hard, hard work. Not even to speak about the fact how other games in the genre - especially their *competition* on the consoles - can't match or catch GT5 on number of fields, but they never got a single bit of criticism why they do not have everything that GT5 has. Hypocrisy and ignorance on the max level.

It is really a sad thing and totally undeserved.

I'm sorry you feel that way but sometimes emotions need to be put aside and facts have to be faced.
It's an ongoing problem, a major talking point whenever GT is brought up in a conversation.

Total accuracy doesn't work well in video games. To translate the real to virtual takes some manipulation in order to convey a sense of depth, a sense of reality.
Cars are brutal sounding when driven hard. Even a totally stock Toyota Corolla when driven and geared to it's limit sounds raw, a mechanical mish-mash of cast iron and exhaust resonance.

Some of the things that need to be reworked or introduced:

Engine and gearbox oscillation.
BOV's, turbo spool, supercharger whine and wastegate chatter need a complete overhaul.
Extreme rpm anomalies
Chassis creak and cockpit resonance.
Sequential effects.
Rev Loading for recording.
Upgraded exhaust simulation
Enhanced doppler and reverb
Tyre squeal
Pitch and general acoustics
Overrun effects
and on and on..

GT has received praise and accolades since it's inception. It's a pioneer in it's field that has led others onto similar paths.
Having said that, if we don't express our constructive criticisms then flaws and problems will continue unabated which can ultimately have a detrimental effect on the final product.
If this upsets you then so be it. We are all fans here not just some. As such, I or anyone else has the right to express our opinions and thoughts if it means a potentially better user experience come game in hand time...
 
I'm sorry you feel that way but sometimes emotions need to be put aside and facts have to be faced.
It's an ongoing problem, a major talking point whenever GT is brought up in a conversation.

Total accuracy doesn't work well in video games. To translate the real to virtual takes some manipulation in order to convey a sense of depth, a sense of reality.
Cars are brutal sounding when driven hard. Even a totally stock Toyota Corolla when driven and geared to it's limit sounds raw, a mechanical mish-mash of cast iron and exhaust resonance.

Some of the things that need to be reworked or introduced:

Engine and gearbox oscillation.
BOV's, turbo spool, supercharger whine and wastegate chatter need a complete overhaul.
Extreme rpm anomalies
Chassis creak and cockpit resonance.
Sequential effects.
Rev Loading for recording.
Upgraded exhaust simulation
Enhanced doppler and reverb
Tyre squeal
Pitch and general acoustics
Overrun effects
and on and on..

GT has received praise and accolades since it's inception. It's a pioneer in it's field that has led others onto similar paths.
Having said that, if we don't express our constructive criticisms then flaws and problems will continue unabated which can ultimately have a detrimental effect on the final product.
If this upsets you then so be it. We are all fans here not just some. As such, I or anyone else has the right to express our opinions and thoughts if it means a potentially better user experience come game in hand time...

There's nothing wrong with the Tyre squeal and GT5 does have different sound effects for Upgraded exhaust. Doppler and reverb are fine in GT5 and what exactly is Sequential and Overrun effects?


I agree with the rest though.
 

rvy

Banned
Who thought the rotating UCD was a good idea? I've been trying to get a Cerbera Speed 12 for the past 30 minutes and nothing. Dumb design decisions, FFS.
 

saladine1

Junior Member
There's nothing wrong with the Tyre squeal and GT5 does have different sound effects for Upgraded exhaust. Doppler and reverb are fine in GT5 and what exactly is Sequential and Overrun effects?


I agree with the rest though.



That's what I mean by better upgraded exhaust sound simulation. I know it changes the sound but in a lot of cases the upgrades completely destroys distinct sound belonging to that car, a particular problem with the V8's.
It's not an easy thing to accomplish. To get that right requires real life exhaust swaps on every car which is very time consuming, a very big undertaking..

Edit- GT has a very good depiction of straight cut gear whine something that FM hasn't got right yet. In GT, the whine is rev dependent and gears accordingly while FM just has a 'whine' that doesn't sound or behave realistically..
Other devs who have the dog box effects down pat are Codies and...EA.NFS..
 

Niks

Member
It "receives a lot of backlash" by game "journalists" and people that don't actually care about the game and are only looking for stuff to trash it, not by fans of the series.

Removing the cars adds nothing of value to the game. Keeping them does. The only acceptable solution is to replace them all, or most of them, by premium versions, which won't happen.


Dont agree fully on this one...

Standard cars have no place in GT6.
Dont get me wrong, I enjoy driving them in GT5, but they don't belong in a HD GT game. Whats more, PD most likely included them in GT5 because Sony pressured them to do so. (1000 bullet point)
They stick out like a sore thumb. (even if some of them look ok).

Solution? Hire more damn modelers!
 
IGN's article is spot on in most cases and in particular my favourite subject...THE SOUNDS!!!
It's been done to death this subject but I can't stress enough that PD need to find a way to rectify this problem once and for all...

The sound is a really weird situation to me. You watch the trailers and they dub sound over certain parts that show that they know what they should sound like. And then the game doesn't sound anything like it. From what i've seen they even record the engine sounds the same way that other devs do, but somewhere between that time and the game it goes through some weird computerized process.
 
Dont agree fully on this one...

Standard cars have no place in GT6.
Dont get me wrong, I enjoy driving them in GT5, but they don't belong in a HD GT game. Whats more, PD most likely included them in GT5 because Sony pressured them to do so. (1000 bullet point)
They stick out like a sore thumb. (even if some of them look ok).

Solution? Hire more damn modelers!

And thats all it matters. If you enjoy them then why do u want them gone?
 

brentech

Member
And thats all it matters. If you enjoy them then why do u want them gone?

I think the only reason anyone here would want them gone is so bitches stop complaining about them and GT5 gets a little more respect.

The masses against this game hate on it for it's inequality.
 

rvy

Banned
Who thought the rotating UCD was a good idea? I've been trying to get a Cerbera Speed 12 for the past 30 minutes and nothing. Dumb design decisions, FFS.

Fuck this damn thing. License Test trick is getting me nowhere. Anybody willing to trade?
 

Niks

Member
And thats all it matters. If you enjoy them then why do u want them gone?

I think its the "ïdea" that they are standard that bothers me.

Ex:
This standard drives great! oh yeah.. its a standard, I bet I would enjoy it x100 more if it were a premium.. It feels half assed, incomplete, watered down etc..

meh, maybe im being picky.
 

paskowitz

Member
I think its the "ïdea" that they are standard that bothers me.

Ex:
This standard drives great! oh yeah.. its a standard, I bet I would enjoy it x100 more if it were a premium.. It feels half assed, incomplete, watered down etc..

meh, maybe im being picky.

I am in your corner.
 

krioto

Member
Fuck this damn thing. License Test trick is getting me nowhere. Anybody willing to trade?

I have 3 or 4 of these - you can have one if you want - what's your PSN - I'll send it to you tonight (after 9.00pm Australia Eastern Time).
 

amar212

Member
I'm sorry you feel that way but sometimes emotions need to be put aside and facts have to be faced.

If this upsets you then so be it. We are all fans here not just some. As such, I or anyone else has the right to express our opinions and thoughts if it means a potentially better user experience come game in hand time...

Saladine, you probably misunderstand me.

My problem is *wisdom*, as presented in that article. Same kind of *wisdom* can be applied to every other game on the genre, but surprisingly it is not. If it would be - which I still have to witness upon - than maybe we would get potentially better user experience in other titles as well, which we are not. Because the criticism obviously works one-side-only.

I am talking about hypocrisy of such kind of "journalism", not about us, or anyone else from fan-side of things being critical. Also, what damn emotions? I am not emotional towards video-game, it is just a video-game for God's sake :)
 

saladine1

Junior Member
Saladine, you probably misunderstand me.

My problem is *wisdom*, as presented in that article. Same kind of *wisdom* can be applied to every other game on the genre, but surprisingly it is not. If it would be - which I still have to witness upon - than maybe we would get potentially better user experience in other titles as well, which we are not. Because the criticism obviously works one-side-only.

I am talking about hypocrisy of such kind of "journalism", not about us, or anyone else from fan-side of things being critical. Also, what damn emotions? I am not emotional towards video-game, it is just a video-game for God's sake :)

If that's the case, then I apologize. I have misunderstood.

I think one of the reasons why GT is studied critically is because it's the top dog. The master. The original.
The GT name has a massive following, known to a lot of people, even those who don't game at all.
I remember years ago while working here in Bondi,Sydney, I saw some old Japanese tourists walking in the street. This was just a little before GT4 being released.
I went up to them and asked, "Konnichiwa, do you know Kaz Yamauchi?"
They were baffled. I then asked," You know, Guran Tsurisumo game?"
They started to smile and nod happily motioning with steering gestures lol.

Again, when you are at the top, people will find all kinds of ways to bring you down. That's just the way we as humans are...

The sound is a really weird situation to me. You watch the trailers and they dub sound over certain parts that show that they know what they should sound like. And then the game doesn't sound anything like it. From what i've seen they even record the engine sounds the same way that other devs do, but somewhere between that time and the game it goes through some weird computerized process.
That's definitely boggling. As you've said, they know EXACTLY how a car should sound from the dubbing they've done.
One major problem is their sound capturing techniques. As we all know, cars exhibit very different sounds when in load. It doesn't matter if it's a quarter or full load, they still sound very different compared to when no load is applied.
I believe PD is still using the no load technique. If they can put all their cars on a dyno and then proceed to capture when the car is loading, I believe they will have halved their sound problems..
 

Dead Man

Member
I think its the "ïdea" that they are standard that bothers me.

Ex:
This standard drives great! oh yeah.. its a standard, I bet I would enjoy it x100 more if it were a premium.. It feels half assed, incomplete, watered down etc..

meh, maybe im being picky.

Yeah, I get that a bit.

I think they should remove the list differentiation in your garage, I just want to see what cars I have, not sort through two lists.
 

magawolaz

Member
Yeah, I get that a bit.

I think they should remove the list differentiation in your garage, I just want to see what cars I have, not sort through two lists.
If they do that, I hope they find a way to load the garage faster. It takes forever to load 1000+ cars, especially when the game is saving your data in background.

Btw, they should completely redesign the menus and make the navigation faster and smoother.
 

krioto

Member
New seasonal looks to have taken it up a notch:

MuoNiuLa from GTPlanet said:
This is an expert level race event using Ferrari formula cars.

Tuning is not allowed in this race, and tires are limited to Racing/Hard or less.

The Performance Difference Bonus is in effect for this event.

Tracks

Rome

Laps: 10
Cr: 347,500

Road Course - Indy

Laps: 10
Cr: 384,000

Tokyo R246

Laps: 10
Cr: 403,000

Nurburgring 24h

Laps: 2
Cr: 452,700

Eifel (Circuit) / Weather Change / Change Time

Laps: 10
Cr: 425,000

Prizes

Gift Car Coupon: Ferrari SP1 '08

rvy - did you get the TVR?
 

Business

Member
1.5 years later and I still dont know why some "journalists" criticized the menus, never found it to be confusing.

The problem wasn't that they were specially confusing, it was that they were slow to navigate and lacked shortcuts that had you go all the way backwards to change something when you were ready to race. This has been quite improved.
 

amar212

Member
Are they serious? It's gonna take 4 (or 5) weeks for something that should take microseconds?

8 weeks to be more precise. 9 if you count the last week for racing outfit.

553142_10150929013960197_513019708_n.jpg
 

Watevaman

Member
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say they're stretching out the release to distract from the lack of a true DLC car pack.
 

Atenhaus

Member
Hay guyz,

So I just got back into GT5 after a loooong absence. What DLC would you all recommend I download?

Also, is there a GAF GT5 league? That'd be really fun to get into.

Thanks, all! :D
 

paskowitz

Member

See link in your quote for league. It is a bit dead now, but if we put our mind to it we have great races.

Racing Car Pack (Touring Cars), Course Pack (Spa+Karting Track), Car Pack 3 (Aventador, V12 Vantage+others) and Twin Ring Motegi Pack are the best DLC options. All those should run you about $24. If tighter on cash just go with the Course Pack and Car Pack 3.
 

Dead Man

Member
See link in your quote for league. It is a bit dead now, but if we put our mind to it we have great races.

Racing Car Pack (Touring Cars), Course Pack (Spa+Karting Track), Car Pack 3 (Aventador, V12 Vantage+others) and Twin Ring Motegi Pack are the best DLC options. All those should run you about $24. If tighter on cash just go with the Course Pack and Car Pack 3.

Ouch. I tend not to buy DLC anyway, but I didn't think it was that much.

Fake edit: Wait, I didn't see that it was more than 2 cars in car pack 3, still seems a lot to me. But as I said, I tend not to buy it so my expectations may be off.
 
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