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Guerilla Games: PS4 has no performance bottlenecks
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
It's basically the same architecture as the original Wii just on steroids. Nintendo seemed to be more focused on energy efficiency rather than performance.
ii Stryker
Banned
umm this could be said about any console ever.
FYI lack of power is a bottleneck.
umm this could be said about any console ever.
FYI lack of power is a bottleneck.
No it isn't. One part of a system is a bottleneck. The whole system can't be a bottleneck. That's not what the word means.
If a game streams data during gameplay, the data read speed limits how much data can be loaded over a given time frame. Theoretically, that could limit the quality of assets displayed or the number of them, if it's the case that the system would otherwise be capable of displaying better or more stuff.
In this case, swapping out for an SSD wouldn't help matters, because the game had to be designed around what's built into the system.
SolarPowered
Member
PS4 is the true next gen Gamecube.
Except you can't say that at all. PS3 being the latest glaring example.umm this could be said about any console ever.
FYI lack of power is a bottleneck.
And you obviously have no idea of what a bottleneck is.
I'd say creatine more than steroids.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
so would a 7200 rpm drive be incapable of loading in textures needed to occupy 8gbs of ram in a reasonable about of time? i wouldnt think so.
the game would load faster. no? though i get your point that no one would sneak in 4k tile textures in the first place if the SSD werent standard.
blitzcloud
Banned
umm this could be said about any console ever.
FYI lack of power is a bottleneck.
I thought bottlenecks were about trying to push too much stuff for the bandwidth it can give. I mean, in a way that both processes can work if they're not done at the same time, thus causing the bottleneck when they all try to do stuff at the same time.
Unless by lack of power you mean lack of PSU power to power the cpu/gpu I guess.
perineumlick
Member
So the GPU in the PS4 isn't as powerful as, say, a Titan, because of bottlenecks? Hardware capability has no bearing on anything, is that what you are saying?umm this could be said about any console ever.
FYI lack of power is a bottleneck.
I wouldn't think so either, but that wasn't my point. There's a difference between can't be, which is what you said, and won't be. If the hard drive were sufficiently slow, it could in theory be a bottleneck. That was my point. I'd guess that some games were bottlenecked by DVD/Blu-ray read speeds.
Right, if it's an open world game, the quality of assets are going to be based around how quickly the standard hard drive can read data in relation to how fast your character can move. (If read speed was the bottleneck, obviously if something else was the bottleneck, that would be the determining factor, not read speed)
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
FYI lack of power is a bottleneck.
how are people envisioning the bottle here?
is the thick body of the bottle the developers vivid imagination, while the neck is the cold hard reality of finite hardware?
Glorified G
Member
umm this could be said about any console ever.
FYI lack of power is a bottleneck.
Despite several explanations it's still amazing some people in this thread still have no idea what a bottleneck is.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
Ah, fair enough. 'won't be'.
I know you talking theoretically, but there's no way developers are gonna practically fill 6/7 gigs of ram with in use data. With both systems having 8GBs there is gonna be legendary cache room for data. I'm fairly certain that's why Sony can claim so confidently that loading times are gonna be almost gone.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
he even threw in a wink. we can only hope it was a troll wink.
BradleyLove
Member
Bottleneck =\= Power
Bottlenecks are barriers that prevent utilisation of the available power.
Bottlenecks are barriers that prevent utilisation of the available power.
Yup, I always find it how people have awesome CPU's, but crap graphics cards and vice versa, such a waste. I always try to find the right balance with the systems I build and it works out great.
ii Stryker
Banned
I understand(basically) what a bottleneck is when it come to the way the silicon moves information and data. However, to the lay man what is implied/interpreted by Guerilla's remarks are that PS4 is capable of Fishing in Baku PC level of quality/fidelity and that's simply not true.
"God's Beard!"
Member
It's surprising that there's such a confused, ignorant response to a guy talking about bottlenecks. It's really not complicated.
SpartanN92
Banned
Ask PC gamers now, they'll point out the CPU and GPU are already bottlenecks.
We don't have to ask PC gamers, they will make their opinion known regardless of whether or not we asked.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Yeah, except being the most powerful console, actually having games people want to play, unprecedented First and Third-party support, fantastic online services and an ethernet port to boot.
perineumlick
Member
Nonsense. That is clearly your interpretation; nowhere in that article is anything of the such implied.
So you're going on record on April 08th 2013 that nothing ever on PS4 will reach the quality of the PC version of a multiplatform game that is also available on PS3?
And Wii U is the Dreamcast?
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Long term storage via HD is a "bottleneck" in the loose sense for every computer system made. They have memory systems that transfer at 20-40GB/s for system RAM and 100-300GB/s for VRAM. HDs are orders of magnitude less (20-50MB/s). But it is not really fair to call them bottlenecks in the strict sense, they are known and computers are designed around them. Bottlenecks in this context are about rendering and computing, not a known commodity like the HD bandwidth which is unavoidable.
Except Dreamcast had games.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
well said, if you want to talk about the overall snappiness of PCs, then HDDs are the biggest bottlenecks today. if you want to talk about a system of components and their reliance on one and another than HDDs typically don't hold anything back.
SuperEpicGuy
Banned
phosphor112
Banned
If it's 7 years, we will see the biggest tech jump in gaming history. We'll see "stacked" technology in basically everything. Consoles will be several times behind probably even phones.
I can't wait.
David Cage will implode with all the emotional polygons.
If at that point consoles are behind even smartphones, it's going to be an extremely tough sale to convince people to buy a stationary version of mobile devices. Console generations will have to be shorter than 7 years to avoid this.
I've stated before and i'll state here again, from a purely logical perspective this generation will likely hold firm only for 4-5yrs. The chosen architecture pays credence to this since it should allow far more streamlined compatibility going forward
PS4 is very nicely designed and that is generally agreed upon. If price/TDP was no issue, I'd say that they could have done with more muscle in the CPU front. This has been discussed before, but most netbooks will have the kind of single thread CPU performance that PS4 can muster when it comes out.
It will be the developers' task to maneuver around this by coding game engines that are extremely efficiently parallelized, to make use of all 8 threads. Sitting on a 6-core 12-thread Xeon overclocked to 4GHz I can tell you that I'm very excited for this prospect.
It will be the developers' task to maneuver around this by coding game engines that are extremely efficiently parallelized, to make use of all 8 threads. Sitting on a 6-core 12-thread Xeon overclocked to 4GHz I can tell you that I'm very excited for this prospect.
phosphor112
Banned
100% correct.
TacticalFox88
Banned
I hope we don't get Next Next gen till 2019 at the earliest. 2020 would be the sweet spot.
RibbedHero
Member
CYBORG future here we come. Beam me up Scotty LOL
Metalmurphy
Member
Depending on what drive speed it would use, it could just be for a small part of the disc. In your example, it would be really small.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Where do you think game assets load from?
Developers had better master streaming everything during gameplay if they want to clamp down on load times.
That not a close system.
umm this could be said about any console ever.
FYI lack of power is a bottleneck.
Wait, What?
soulassssns
Banned
Sony: "CLU, am I to create the perfect system?"
anyway, I call BS!.... no such thing as a no bottleneck system.
anyway, I call BS!.... no such thing as a no bottleneck system.
cobragt4001
Banned
Ha yea with Volta rolling out with stacked memory in 2016 you better hope the next wave of consoles after the ps4 will be out before 2018. PC tech is about to get crazy in the next few years with the talks of GDDR6 and DDR4.
Yeah that was my understanding. Each piece of the hardware will get used to its full potential in the end.
RibbedHero
Member
I meant if, say, the PS4 had a 5450 equivalent but also had 24GB of GDDR5 RAM. Would some of that RAM not go to waste as the GPU powering the console isn't strong enough to take advantage of it?
Sorry for butting in, but that last sentence should be a statement, not a question
vRAM does not increase processing power. vRAM just allows you to hold many assets like textures so the GPU can get them quickly. The more video RAM you have, the bigger the textures that you can fit in it, hence better quality. Similar logic applies for CPU and normal RAM - the more RAM, the more processes can run simultaneously. vRAM also stores frame buffer, so the more vRAM you have, the higher resolutions you can target.
But in the end it will be the GPU that has to do all the work of getting a smooth framerate, and putting out high quality textures at high resolutions might be too much for it depending on config. vRAM is just an enabler.
vRAM does not increase processing power. vRAM just allows you to hold many assets like textures so the GPU can get them quickly. The more video RAM you have, the bigger the textures that you can fit in it, hence better quality. Similar logic applies for CPU and normal RAM - the more RAM, the more processes can run simultaneously. vRAM also stores frame buffer, so the more vRAM you have, the higher resolutions you can target.
But in the end it will be the GPU that has to do all the work of getting a smooth framerate, and putting out high quality textures at high resolutions might be too much for it depending on config. vRAM is just an enabler.