Glorified G
Member
It's a design choice. Every console game could have been 60 fps if developers wanted. A ps4 packing a titan wouldn't make a difference
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Guerilla Games: PS4 has no performance bottlenecks
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
It's a design choice. Every console game could have been 60 fps if developers wanted. A ps4 packing a titan wouldn't make a difference
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Any new news on whether the CPU will be clocked at 1.6ghz or 2.0ghz?
A bump up to 2 would be sweet.
A bump up to 2 would be sweet.
That had nothing to do with frame rate.
I think I saw in thread about Cerny's interview in Japan one of the diagrams stated the CPU is <1.8ghz. Not positive though was viewing on my phone and the pic was small.
Betrayer of hope
Banned
The hilarious thing is with killzone 3 GG copied alot of stuff from COD apart from which makes it successful. 60fps.
It's 2013 and yet they are still at 30fps.
It was ">1.8GHz?" in said image.
Also those images are estimates based on what is known and not officially released documentation.
Yeah, they are all equally powerful. I thought all consoles were made like this.
For example, I think it works like this; If a graphic card could run a game at 60 FPS easily, but the CPU can't, then you're stuck with whatever performance the CPU can output. Some games need a lot of CPU but not a lot of GPU power, and some need lots of GPU but not CPU.
As long as the game demands something like 50CPU/50GPU, or a decent balance at least, then performance won't be capped by either as long as the GPU and CPU are equally powerful.
But since is so relative game to game, how can anyone make a claim that there are no performance bottlenecks? Is he assuming that games are designed 50GPU/50CPU?
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Oh ok, will be interesting to hear more conclusively at this next rumoured Playstation event hopefully.
Class leading response.
Never. As others have said numerous times, SSD would be a massive waste.Speed of the hard drive?
SSD?
Maybe they're going to use a hybrid drive.
It didn't. The fact that they patched the game and it had less input lag while the framerate remained the same should be enough evidence of that.
TacticalFox88
Banned
I love how you somehow think that it being 2013 actually means something.
Fucking lol.
1st Course
Member
Edge just posted the whole article:
http://www.edge-online.com/news/ps4-isnt-just-a-high-end-pc-says-guerrilla-games/
Some interesting quotes:
http://www.edge-online.com/news/ps4-isnt-just-a-high-end-pc-says-guerrilla-games/
Some interesting quotes:
There were a number of factors contributing to KZ2's weightiness, but one factor I fought to point out (and which was published on G4's online page) was a video demonstrating the number of video frames between controller input and onscreen response. Even the GUNFIRE was slow to respond, suggesting that the whole control scheme was equally affected by an input delay issue. After a patch, I measured everything again using the same methods and they had reduced input delay on everything by 20-40ms. The camera still had the exact same acceleration curve as before, except that it no longer sat idle for 120-150ms, it was now 60-90ms.
If a game is 60fps it can update every 16.6ms. If it's 30fps it can only update every 33.3ms. Therefore a 60fps game can draw that frame 16.6ms faster. In Killzone 2's case though, it had about 120-150ms of input lag, so shaving 16.6ms off that would not have made a big deal. They shaved a couple 30fps frames off or roughly 66ms in the patch that addressed latency.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
Yet there's been mutliple comments about the "great speed of the harddrive?" this couldn't just be about a 7200rpm HDD, could it? And why's it a waste? DF should huge performance gains when using a SSD for the ps3 version of Rage.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
it didn't, they went for realistic, accelerated feel to motion.
might wanna be less obnoxious next time.
Realistic 150ms of lag in pressing a trigger to seeing a muzzle flash? LOOOOL
P.S. If you hold a gun in real life and try to move it quickly, it doesn't sit there completely dead for 150ms.
P.S.S. When you'd be spinning your gun and suddenly let go of the stick, you kept spinning full speed for 150ms, then you stopped on a dime. That's input lag, not inertia.
I think a 16gb or 32gb ssd just for the os and saves and a hdd for games and dlc would be a great idea. An ssd would not be a waste.
not sure if anything happens in real life in 150ms...
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
maybe it was unintentional, maybe it was, but it defintiely wasn't entirely about the framerate.
and LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL makes anyone sound obnoxious. pretend you were talking to someone in real life.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I'll take 30fps, but no more input lag, pls. That was horrid
KZ3 is actually quite responsive for a 30fps game so I don't think there's much to worry about for Shadow Fall. I just want the momentum/acceleration of KZ2 back with the responsiveness of 3.I'll take 30fps, but no more input lag, pls. That was horrid
Haha, exactly.
Some of the comments from Edge's articles make it sound like installs will be mandatory and that the HDD is quite fast. I doubt it's an SSD, though.
No performance bottlenecks =/= 60fps games.
Alcoholikaust
Member
Such a bold claim.
He must be speaking from a developers standpoint....?
He must be speaking from a developers standpoint....?
What other standpoint is there to speak from?
The claim was that input lag has nothing to do with framerate. But it does. When you play a game that has little input lag, 60fps does improve response time. It only accounted for 16ms of Killzone 2's ~150ms of lag though, so it wasn't the main cause. Thus both sides of the argument needed correction.
My LOOOL was satirical.
I'm not talking about the duration of an action, but rather the length of inactivity. I have tested a couple PC monitors recently and even 10ms can make a welcome difference in mouse cursor responsiveness.
It depends on the type of game. Not all shooters need fast responsive controls, some are more slower, deeper, and involving in their game play. COD might be 60fps but it's also a fps that I don't like, so 60fps isn't everything at all.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
So the entire system is a bottleneck. Good effects, textures, resolution, framerate etc make it in. The framerate doesn't make it out.
I just explained that the entire system itself is a bottleneck.
This is more like a design restriction. Maybe design sacrifice? One of those.
I haven't checked up on it, but I assume we can replace them ourselves again and this time most of the games will take advantage of the SSD, less load times the better!!
Bottlenecks refer to system efficiency, not power. You didn't explain that the console was a bottleneck because that's not what the term means.
If they did specifically put in an HDD that was really fast, I could see them going the proprietary route so that no one puts in something skower and complains.
You can't just change the definition of a word to suit your argument. A bottleneck is caused when one component creates a traffic jam preventing the other components from reaching their maximum performance levels. There's no such thing as the "entire system" being a bottleneck, unless the entire system is so poorly designed that all the parts bottleneck each other.
60fps for many including myself is the lowest TV standard framerate at which video motion becomes comparable to the fluidity of the naked eye's perception of real life motion. Things move instead of being a sequence of individual frames.
Black Ops 2
30fps - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftJktWgaVOw&hd=1#t=30s
60fps - http://gamersyde.com/stream_call_of_duty_black_ops_2_mission_2_part_2-29127_en.html
Dead Space
30fps - www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRh4fvYPZlI&hd=1#t=45s
60fps - http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_dead_space_3_escape_pc_-29458_en.html
Spinning/falling block
http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html
Mechanical things
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/604633
perineumlick
Member
No tetsuo, you just explained that you are still ignorant to the definition of bottleneck.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
The claim was that input lag has nothing to do with framerate. But it does. When you play a game that has little input lag, 60fps does improve response time. It only accounted for 16ms of Killzone 2's ~150ms of lag though, so it wasn't the main cause. Thus both sides of the argument needed correction.
My LOOOL was satirical.
i'm fully aware of that, but like you stated, 150ms is a far cry from 16ms.
i actually dont think anyone made that claim, we just stated that 30fps wasnt the primary reason for the lag in kz2.
The claim was that input lag has nothing to do with framerate. But it does. When you play a game that has little input lag, 60fps does improve response time. It only accounted for 16ms of Killzone 2's ~150ms of lag though, so it wasn't the main cause. Thus both sides of the argument needed correction.
My LOOOL was satirical.
I'm not talking about the duration of an action, but rather the length of inactivity. I have tested a couple PC monitors recently and even 10ms can make a welcome difference in mouse cursor responsiveness.
I think anyone who mentions KZ2 would understand why it's different from the rest. Of course, framerate has an effect with input lag. Objectively, a 60fps will afford lesser input lag than 30fps, barring controller and tv related lag. That's why I said what I did when KZ2 was mentioned because other games in the same vein (30fps) have managed to operate at lower (Halo, PGR, Motostorm, Uncharted, etc) input lag. KZ2's lag was apparently deliberate to give it a weighty feel thanks to increased insensitivity to controller deadzone.
We all agree that LabouredSubterfuge exaggerated the impact of framerate on KZ2's responsiveness, but it was a combination of replies to his post that I felt compelled to clarify:
I mean, technically framerate had more than "nothing" to do with responsiveness.
RoboPlato claimed to echo i-Lo, but also said something else that was flawed in regards to what he perceived as evidence:
If anyone did proper tests in an attempt to provide scientific evidence that framerate had nothing to do with KZ2's responsiveness, they'd have found the opposite to be true.
Maybe deadzone was a factor for finetune aiming, but my reaction time tests were not affected by deadzones. I was out of the deadzone as fast as you can snap a finger. I would throw the stick all the way outward very quickly. I also was tapping R1 to test the muzzle flash responsiveness and tapping the dpad in the menus.
All three forms of controller input had the same lag time. I laugh at people who describe this as being Killzone's trademark "weightiness," because why would they add weight to a trigger finger? In reality Killzone's trademark weightiness should have come from camera acceleration curves, inertial weapon animations, physics-impulse-based bullet impacts, etc. The camera not even BEGINNING to move until 150ms after you tell it to, even for firing a weapon, was not a good design choice, if intentional. There should be advanced options for turn speed acceleration for people who liked that initial latency, but it shouldn't have been a game-wide controller latency like it was pre-patch.
I'm fine if a camera has weight, if it has an acceleration curve, if it doesn't instantly turn at full speed- but I shouldn't have to wait 150ms for it to come out of idle status at all, let alone 150ms for a gun to fire.