BrokenEchelon
Banned
If opinions were physically harmful, your opinion could commit genocide.
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Halo 4, One Year Later: What Happened?
- Thread starter FyreWulff
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If opinions were physically harmful, your opinion could commit genocide.
Mister Negative
Member
The kindest things to be said about Halo 4 are that 343i really improved how the aiming felt. Some of the tightest in the series. An improvement over Reach and MILES better than Halo 3's.
Shame the rest of the game was so mishandled. They had it. They had the core to make something great.
Shame the rest of the game was so mishandled. They had it. They had the core to make something great.
??
I forgot I was on gaming side. HaloGAF knows me, no one here does.
Lol where have I gone?
I liked it, but didn't care for how much the maps were separated by which mode because it felt like I played the same maps over and over again. My wife and I really enjoyed the Spartan Ops Season and it got much better towards the end, I would've played more of that if they had released more seasons.
I think they tried to spread themselves too thin among game modes, but I still enjoyed it.
I think they tried to spread themselves too thin among game modes, but I still enjoyed it.
Kalamari
Member
Nope, that was Joe Staten.
RedRedSuit
Member
*shrug* He's not THAT far off.
Story: The original had the best story. Nice and tight; mysterious; good twist; classy ending scene. 2 was famously awful. 3 was exposition-city -- not in a good way, because it was hard-to-impossible to process/understand most of it especially without subtitles mid-battle -- and the ending left much to be desired given that this was supposed to be the End. ODST... the less said about its story and characters the better. Reach was actually good, although it contradicted Fall of Reach hugely and, being a prequel, was tainted to begin with. Finally, 4 featured a change of tone, and still had the confusion/magic factor, but overall it was epic and engaging; the decision to make MC an actual character was a good one. (It is of course a matter of opinion... some people think it's too "anime" or too melodramatic. It is quite reasonable to disagree with that.)
Campaign: Original is legendary, though it had a couple of long awful parts. 2 was famously awful. 3 had some awesome battles like the Scarabs... but also had hands-down the worst level in the entire series, Cortana. ODST... fuck ODST... especially that hub city shit... and fuck those visuals too. Reach was fairly awesome, if too reliant on DMRing Elites. 4 was again a change in direction, added some cool and unique enemies and fairly decent new guns. Yes, it cut down on the Halo-level freedom and reliance and vehicles, which was annoying, but on the other hand it felt great, and the series needed some kind of change -- which it provided. It was a good campaign that kept the series moving instead of stagnating.
So yeah, on those two points it's perfectly reasonable to think it's at least up there.
P.S. Uh oh, I just realized with whom I was sort-of-agreeing. Oh well... evaluate the post, not the poster.
The Antitype
Banned
I mean, he's not THAT far off.
As far as storyline, I would order them:
H1 > H4 > REACH > H3 > H2
As far as gameplay (combat scenarios, use of the sandbox, variation, etc), I would order them:
H3 > H1 > Reach = H4 > H2
So it's about the 2nd or 3rd best campaign in the series, from where I'm sitting anyway. It's not like it's far and away the worst campaign.
Halo 4 is miles better than Reach. I remember the bungie forums back in 2011. Everyone hated Reach and would do nothing but talk about how much better 3 was. Whenever anyone suggested that the hate happened with every halo release and people would think lovingly back to Reach when the next game came out they were harassed until they left the thread. But it's true. People are too willing to forgive some of the major design flaws in Reach because it's not the halo game everyone is talking about now. Armor lock was possibly the worst thing to introduce in a Halo game, The melee system was incredibly stupid, bloom was out of control, and the maps were copy pasted from the single player levels.
That being said, halo 4 could have been much better. Things like ordinance drops, killstreaks, armor abilities, loadouts, bloom, and sprint need to go. But I wouldn't mind a slight increase in base movement speed so large maps aren't torture to get around if the vehicles are taken (sandtrap is not fun if you don't have a vehicle).
Open up the campaign missions to at least halo 3 levels of scale and "largeness". If not more. It's a sandbox game afterall. And don't prioritize the graphics. Make it a halo game first, and then work on the engine with performance always taking priority. I'm not going to give a shit whether or not the game is running at 1080p when I'm playing 4 player split screen and getting 20 fps.
And most importantly, please reintroduce the hidden skulls. I have numerous fond memories searching for those in halo 3 and was disappointed when they were no longer hidden in any halo game afterward. Put them back, and make them hard to find.
And also allow the infected to use other weapons. Take the gametype customization's from halo 3 (where it was near perfect), and expand from there.
Edit: Actually, loadouts could potentially work if balanced correctly. That includes removing the option to spawn with plasma grenades and plasma pistols though.
That being said, halo 4 could have been much better. Things like ordinance drops, killstreaks, armor abilities, loadouts, bloom, and sprint need to go. But I wouldn't mind a slight increase in base movement speed so large maps aren't torture to get around if the vehicles are taken (sandtrap is not fun if you don't have a vehicle).
Open up the campaign missions to at least halo 3 levels of scale and "largeness". If not more. It's a sandbox game afterall. And don't prioritize the graphics. Make it a halo game first, and then work on the engine with performance always taking priority. I'm not going to give a shit whether or not the game is running at 1080p when I'm playing 4 player split screen and getting 20 fps.
And most importantly, please reintroduce the hidden skulls. I have numerous fond memories searching for those in halo 3 and was disappointed when they were no longer hidden in any halo game afterward. Put them back, and make them hard to find.
And also allow the infected to use other weapons. Take the gametype customization's from halo 3 (where it was near perfect), and expand from there.
Edit: Actually, loadouts could potentially work if balanced correctly. That includes removing the option to spawn with plasma grenades and plasma pistols though.
RedRedSuit
Member
Yep, pretty good ordering. I'd probably Halo 3 down much further in the 2nd one however... maybe because most of what I remember is "Cortana" and "Halo," both of which were massive disappointments.
I can't believe there is actually someone out there that believes this.
RedRedSuit
Member
Not seeing much in there that's controversial. I understand opinions differ, of course.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Halo 4 had the most uneventful and unmemorable campaign out of the series. It had a story so stupid that it can proudly sit next to FF XIII, and repetitive enemies that were an absolute and complete chore to deal with from start to finish.
It was a Halo game that made fighting the Covenant un-fun. That's incredible.
The Multiplayer was basically Reach 1.5, which in my opinion isn't bad as I've enjoyed each Halo MP iteration for different reasons, but it definitely felt like the laziest retread of the MP with some CoD elements thrown in for good measure.
It was a Halo game that made fighting the Covenant un-fun. That's incredible.
The Multiplayer was basically Reach 1.5, which in my opinion isn't bad as I've enjoyed each Halo MP iteration for different reasons, but it definitely felt like the laziest retread of the MP with some CoD elements thrown in for good measure.
The Antitype
Banned
Uh... you did play the Halo 2 campaign right?
The Karasumori
Banned
Microsoft should buy Retro from Nintendo and let them make a proper Metroid Prime game next time, jeez.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Yeah. The Arbiter shit sucked, hell the second half of the game pretty much sucked, but at least it was over quickly and had a few redeeming levels.
He also thinks Ryse's facial animations / models look better than the PS4 Dark Sorcerer tech demo.
I am not surprised in the slightest that he thinks Halo 4 was good.
RedRedSuit
Member
While I find 95% of what he posts pertaining to the system warz basically nonsense, this is not fair.
Sounds like somebody wasn't satisfied with the immense numbers Halo usually does, and instead wanted to chase that Call of Duty money. And they did it by badly twisting Halo to look like Call of Duty, making something that didn't turn out as well as either.
But that's just me on the outside looking in.
But that's just me on the outside looking in.
RedRedSuit
Member
???
neoism
Member
H1 beat the campaign a dozen times played probably 1000 hours of multi
H2 same
H3 over 5000 games played beat campaign on every difficulty a dozen times
Reach <3 played campaign for over 200 hours... 6000 MP games played... My fav Halo game
Halo 4 played Campaign once... was garbage only played 288 MP games fucking bought the season pass and sold the game before the third map pack came out...
I no longer care about halo.... FUCK 343 garbage studio... that fucking ruined my favorite FPS series ever...
Destiny save US.... buying a Ps4 just for Destiny... because Bungle has my trust...
H2 same
H3 over 5000 games played beat campaign on every difficulty a dozen times
Reach <3 played campaign for over 200 hours... 6000 MP games played... My fav Halo game
Halo 4 played Campaign once... was garbage only played 288 MP games fucking bought the season pass and sold the game before the third map pack came out...
I no longer care about halo.... FUCK 343 garbage studio... that fucking ruined my favorite FPS series ever...
Destiny save US.... buying a Ps4 just for Destiny... because Bungle has my trust...
SicSemperTyrannis
Member
Eh... I would argue that they realized (just like Bungie) that change needed to happen, but changed too much. They took a few steps in the right direction with halo 4. But they took more steps back.
343 has acknowledged a lot of the issues though, and it's nothing that can't easily be fixed in Halo 5.
I'd argue bungie ruined halo more than 343 did. the multiplayer in Reach is easily worse than halo 4.
neoism
Member
nope most of the things in Reach didn't bother me at all.... I had the most fun out of any FPS in the first 3 months of that game. <3
Also Reach had the numbers... it had something like 900k players a year after release....
As you can see in the OP fucking no one plays h4 because it is dogshit....
But you either love Reach of hate it... I fucking LOVVVED it its my favorite HALO game.
But I will say HaloGaf customs in the holy days of Halo 3 really cant be beat....
Completely missed this, when did he leave?
neoism
Member
:O damn had no idea.... I just dun understand after 15 years why anyone would quit bungie... -_-
shame
To Far Away Times
Member
Gears of War 1 is really something special. The sequels went for "bigger and badder" but I don't think they were necessarily making things better. They were adding cool features and whatnot but I think something got lost in the process.
It also helps that at the time there had never been a multiplayer game like Gears of War. It's rare to play a legitimately "new" game.
Twilight Gap
Member
Completely ruined and gutted the MP, and did it so badly that me and a bunch of my friends stopped playing after two months after playing every prior Halo for years after. What a shame in the direction they chose to take. Embarrassing. Prometheans were also an awful enemy design, and the fact that all the "new" weapons were just reskinned versions of classic Halo weapons is lol-worthy. Game looked really nice though, so I guess that's something.
The Antitype
Banned
How in the name of god is Reach worse than Halo 4?
Gears of war 2 is definitely better than the first game. Really great map design.
Gears 3 was great and definitely an 8/10 game. But it did lack a certain something. I personally think it was the new art direction.
Jex
Member
What happened is that 343 made a pretty average game, and a very bad Halo game. As others have pointed out, trying to chase an audience that was already well catered to while dropping the very core of what made Halo 'Halo' was an awful decision and is reflected in the statistics quoted in the OP.
I remember when Giantbomb discussed Halo Reach and declared that the game needed to 'modernize' it's multiplayer to bring it alongside COD. This always seemed to highlight a complete failure to understand what made the game special while simultaneously posturing a fallacy that their can only be one type of multiplayer shooter and that not having perks/loadouts etc was 'old fashioned'. I was saddened that 343 shared the same opinion.
I remember when Giantbomb discussed Halo Reach and declared that the game needed to 'modernize' it's multiplayer to bring it alongside COD. This always seemed to highlight a complete failure to understand what made the game special while simultaneously posturing a fallacy that their can only be one type of multiplayer shooter and that not having perks/loadouts etc was 'old fashioned'. I was saddened that 343 shared the same opinion.
Armor lock, broken melee system, bad map design, crazy amounts of bloom, reduced base movement speed, weaker vehicles that are easily taken down with almost any weapon, ect..
There has been progress in the playlist department. The half-full/half-empty view is, while 343 does incorporate community feedback and make changes, they do so at a very, very slow pace and only after making a lot of initial mistakes to begin with. (Fyre's example of the initial re-balance roll out is a good example; should have been much faster, and sans the marketing fluff.)
It reminds me of the frustrations after they took over matchmaking with Reach. I was a Community Cartographer for Halo 3 and Reach. 343 eventually did some good stuff with Reach (though I object to a lot of it, the DLC and achievement shenanigans among them). But it was only after population flight and months of community outcry that they moved. (In the interest of disclosure, one of the Halo 3 BTB maps, Entrenched, is mine, and I designed the Firefight NEP game type in collaboration with 343; I was really happy they turned to that playlist after my months of whining
). The folks at 343 are awesome people; they've been kind to me personally over the years and are just smart, generous, great folks all around. So I know what you mean when you talk about your engagement with them. But I've simply lost faith in the direction they took the series, and in their ability to support the games after ship. I hope you're right, though. I want Halo to be awesome again.
Advance_Alarm
Member
These metrics are brutal. I hope 343i has a wakeup call after the disaster that is Halo 4. The descent of the Halo franchise into a shit fest CoD clone has made a purchase of an Xbox One unjustifiable. I was confident in buying an Xbox when Halo CE was released, and I was confident in buying an X360 for Halo 3. I always knew Halo was good and could anchor my console purchase. I was actually angry after initially playing Halo 4 and its multiplayer but now I am just sad that something that used to bring me so much joy has been taken from me and I see no respite in the near future.
The Antitype
Banned
Hm. I'd say we disagree on the cumulative negative impact of those issues on the gameplay experience and enjoyability of the game then.
I would play 1000 Reach matches before I play one more Halo 4 match. It's just terrible.
The impact is they started using us Community Cartographers as free Certain Affinity employees and not as community liasons and content promoters.
I went from having tons of fun working with Bungie on Reach and 343 on Halo (initially) to end up burning out from the limited feedback impact any Cartographer had, to just being used to test content CA/343 already had, and having the Community Cartographer name attached to things we didn't even work on.
In the early days, I was able to do stuff like get Affinity into matchmaking, work with other cartographers to convince Bungie to remove a certain armor ability, and send distilled HBO/GAF feedback that ended up in a certain gametype function getting added.
In the middle of it, I was paying for Live Gold out of my pocket just so we could get Reach updated.
At the end of it, I was fixing 343's disc maps up so that people couldn't escape from them or exploit them. There wasn't even time given to promote or work on original content. I was doing what paid employees should be doing. I ended up burning out like Chief in the intro of Halo 3.
For the type work you and other Cartographers are doing Tashi, you should be getting a paycheck. Plain and simple.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
this is about it.
I played a hell of a lot of it, but it was pretty clear that it was going to continue downward and not be the 'it' game pretty much on release.
I'd probably still play it actually but the small player base means terri-bad lag that made it unplayable so I gave up.
SicSemperTyrannis
Member
This entire post makes me sad.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Yeah I'm with you on that. Halo 4 was much better than Reach.. It's just that by the time Halo 4 came around, people were already burned by and burned out on Reach so they weren't going to give Halo 4 that leeway.
lol I tried
That's really good hahah
In all seriousness, and I've said this with each release but I really mean it this time
and I've said that too before too,
The Antitype
Banned
That's pretty speculative, and goes against most of the population numbers. If that's your gut feeling so be it, but ockham's razor suggests - based on the population numbers, that a solid amount of people were perfectly content playing Reach for an extended period of time, while Halo 4 was so bad they gave up on it immediately within months.
Didn't Reach experience a pretty stark population drop when compared to halo 3 as well?
The Antitype
Banned
It was a comparatively minor drop in population that held steady for about a year after release until the new COD game hit. Then it stabilized at about 50% of what it had been the previous year before dropping off the map when Halo 4 it.
So Halo Reach had a significant player base for a year, and moderate one for the year after, while Halo 4's player base went off a cliff within 6 months.
The people who had been happy to play Reach for quite awhile wanted no part of Halo 4 and fled as quickly as possible.
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