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Halo 4 |OT| Spartans Never Die

Dude I honestly can't believe this. How is it a good thing? And it's pretty ridiculous to compare smartphone games that cost from free to 99 cents to $60+ games that are shorter and shorter in terms of campaign play or locked on disc dlc etc.

We ARE FUCKING SUPPORTING DEVELOPERS by buying their games. It's pretty ridiculous to suggest because I might want to trade in my games 5 months from now, that suddenly the money they got from me the first time I bought the game wasn't enough.

If they have a problem with the money they receive, take it up with the retailers or publishers. Ask for a bigger cut.

Publishers like Activision are making record breaking revenue. With shit like Call of Duty, they make almost $1 billion+ dollars in sales and dlc. And they are the ones pressing for this DRM, not developers.

Why? Because they want to maximize profit, as much as possible. This is something the industry will never turn back from. Once they have consent, which folks like you defending it are giving them, they'll never remove these policies.

If the AAA industry can't support itself, that's their problem. Maybe take a look at what Mojang did with Minecraft and take note.

But it's utter bullshit to suggest that because I might let a friend borrow my game, much like any consumer product, from my laptop, car, movie, mp3 player, that it's somehow depriving the devs of hard earned money.

Anyways, sorry to go off topic, but it's ridiculous. If these policies don't affect you, ok, buy the console day one, but don't try and diminish legitimate concerns others have or pass it off as a good thing. And I'm someone who's been with xbox since the beginning and these policies don't affect me much at all, but even I can see the veneer of bullshit behind why they're saying it's a good thing.

Edit: and FYI, the movie industry tried this with DIVX, it was a complete flop which is why they didn't try it again.

1. You can't just cherry pick cheap apps, digital movies purchases are $20-$35, a whole tv season rental is larger than $0.99 cents and an entire music album is more than $15-$25.

2. I support gamers with the idea my console offline games should be play any time for as long as I like. This was in my post above.

3. If your friend is borrowing your game for a 12-96+ hour sessions then yes they are abusing the game license you the owner are entitled to. I stated this should be more reasonable than 1 hour. Say 3-5 hours is a solid compromise.

4. Digital movie purchases don't let you borrow or resell them and neither does music or apps so why should games allow that? At least X1 is allowing taking such purchases elsewhere or giving away 1 time etc. Other industries or app stores aren't so generous.

5. The old methods of take or give my disc to a friend are short changing developers and publishers while also being hard to enforce. The same goes for shop rental licensing. The dawn of new technology means we gamers and companies alike have to progressively develop new methods.

6. They are also allowing some flexibility per publisher.

7. It's not about the money they get from you. It is about the money they don't get from the second hand sale. No monies from your friend and generally speaking no royalties or licensing from the stores doing the trading either as the self reporting and lack of ease to enforce equates to develops/publisher not getting a second game sale or a piece of the second hand sale.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
You people and your "im not buying the one" crap.

Tell me how you feel next week. I bet everyone of you will have a sudden change of heart.

Also I laugh at anyone calling the Xb1 anti-consumer, when Steam does the same. Yes.. yes I get it you buy cheap games on steam. It does not change the fact that the DRM system is almost exactly the same.

Well you cant compare one console now to the PC, you have to compare it with the competing consoles.

And many have to think about how these restrictions by MS affects them. I mean as a general these decisions are weird, hard and of course they are anti-consumer, but if I think about myself nothing really bothers me except that I maybe can't swap games with a good friend of mine, except I can somehow get him as my family member on the list.


For me the problems are still : weaker hardware and no game footage that interests me for now.

I will keep what I said from the beginning, I will wait after E3
 

willow ve

Member
You people and your "im not buying the one" crap.

Tell me how you feel next week. I bet everyone of you will have a sudden change of heart.

Also I laugh at anyone calling the Xb1 anti-consumer, when Steam does the same. Yes.. yes I get it you buy cheap games on steam. It does not change the fact that the DRM system is almost exactly the same.

Without a new Halo game it's a wait and see moment for me. Over the past two years my game time has taken a severe hit. I basically rotate three games now. BF3 (although my interest in that series has waned), Halo 4, and Borderlands 2.

Without a Halo 5 or a Borderlands 3 as incentive I don't see a huge reason to buy the XBone on day one. I don't even have a reason to buy it year one. There might be new, interesting and compelling IPs, but at this point in my life I think I'll wait it out and see what games actually have a population 6 months post launch before I purchase a new console.

That and I don't have cable television (because who does anymore) so that entire function of the XBone is lost on me. Which essentially means my gaming/streaming console will also have a Xbox TV and Kinect 2.0 tax that I don't care to pay.
 

Madness

Member
1. You can't just cherry pick cheap apps, digital movies purchases are $20-$35, a whole tv season rental is larger than $0.99 cents and an entire music album is more than $15-$25.

2. I support gamers with the idea my console offline games should be play any time for as long as I like. This was in my post above.

3. If your friend is borrowing your game for a 12-96+ hour sessions then yes they are abusing the game license you the owner are entitled to. I stated this should be more reasonable than 1 hour. Say 3-5 hours is a solid compromise.

4. Digital movie purchases don't let you borrow or resell them and neither does music or apps so why should games allow that? At least X1 is allowing taking such purchases elsewhere or giving away 1 time etc. Other industries or app stores aren't so generous.

5. The old methods of take or give my disc to a friend are short changing developers and publishers while also being hard to enforce. The same goes for shop rental licensing. The dawn of new technology means we gamers and companies alike have to progressively develop new methods.

6. They are also allowing some flexibility per publisher.

7. It's not about the money they get from you. It is about the money they don't get from the second hand sale. No monies from your friend and generally speaking no royalties or licensing from the stores doing the trading either as the self reporting and lack of ease to enforce equates to develops/publisher not getting a second game sale or a piece of the second hand sale.

1.Name me one show or movie that costs that much for digital download that didn't come as a standalone blu-ray or dvd purchase. Your first point was the smartphone app industry doesn't allow you to trade games or apps. Which game or app is close to $60? I'm not cheery picking, you are. The majority of the top apps are free to 99 cents.

2. Of course we should have unlimited offline play.

3. How am I depriving the devs or publishers from anything by letting a friend borrow or use my product? What difference does it make if someone in my household plays the game or my friend down the street? Am I depriving HP by letting a friend borrow my laptop? What about bringing a movie over and watching it at my girlfriends house? What about me borrowing my dad's pickup? Why is games any different? Especially if it's a physical disc I own?

4. Digital or movies purchases are also a fraction of what it costs to buy the standalone retail disc on blu ray or dvd. There is a trade off in convenience. You get a digital file that you can use on multiple devices etc. And it's cheaper, but you can't trade it. Tell me if digital downloads for Xbox One will be cheaper than physical discs. Nope, even today, digital downloads are more expensive on Xbox Live than what you can get the actual disc for. So your point is moot. If MS charges $60 for discs, and only $30 for digital download, then I'll agree it's fair I can't trade or share my digital games.

Your last points are just regurgitated anti-consumer bullshit that I honestly have trouble believing you are so in favor of it. Devs are not fucking shortchanged. They got their fucking money when I bought the game. They are not entitled to money for eternity or on every secondary sale. Why is the games industry one of the few that now thinks it's entitled to second hand sales? Especially in face of record revenues?

They don't deserve any money after sale. Just as no other company or product on earth requires you to pay them to sell it.

The car company doesn't deserve money if I want to sell my car, Samsung doesn't deserve money if I decide to sell my television, it doesn't deserve money if I try and sell my phone, Universal doesn't deserve money if I sell my Back to the Future trilogy etc. I could go on and on.

I don't get it. I don't understand. It doesn't affect me at all but I'm not going to sit here trying to pass off snake oil as a good thing. Anyways I'm done you believe what you want.

Edit: I don't know, it seems like you are a part time dev and so are obviously biased, but I'm just going to say as my last point, doesn't matter if other industries do it, the point is, till now the gaming industry didn't follow them. Of course I'll protest if they do, quit trying to say it's a good thing for gamers when it's not. It's good for publishers who are making record revenues and they are the ones pushing for it most. The biggest con is the people saying that when devs and pubs start getting money from second hand sales, that they'll pass on the savings to consumers etc.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Can't wait to hear how some games are gonna take advantage of the cloud to offset some processes on it just so we could get booted out of playing halo 5's campaign because we accidentally lost the connection
 
I don't know, it seems like you are a part time dev and so are obviously biased, but I'm just going to say as my last point, doesn't matter if other industries do it, the point is, till now the gaming industry didn't follow them.

Sure I am biased as a work in development and design. When I create something for a client I don't sell them the intellectual property behind my websites. My clients don't own the right to onsell that solution and become essentially a competitor to my business.

I suppose I view the games business that way too.
 

J10

Banned
They don't deserve any money after sale. Just as no other company or product on earth requires you to pay them to sell it.

The car company doesn't deserve money if I want to sell my car, Samsung doesn't deserve money if I decide to sell my television, it doesn't deserve money if I try and sell my phone, Universal doesn't deserve money if I sell my Back to the Future trilogy etc. I could go on and on.

Why don't they deserve any money from resales?
 
It is not revealed. And it is a non human, non covenant species.
Together with the information that species wasn't known to the Forerunners, could only mean it's either [Silentium-Spoiler]
a) the Forerunner race, the Librarian met on Path Kethona, b) Precursors or c) a complete unknown and unexpected species.
 

Madness

Member
Why don't they deserve any money from resales?

Because they already sold their product. If I paid $60 for their game, they don't deserve more money after just because they feel like it.

It's laughable to me, that somehow EA or Activision thinks they deserve money if I want to sell my game on Ebay or something. Especially since people have been doing it for the past three decades.

Since when does any company feel entitled to second hand sale money and what makes the games industry unique in this regard? Do book publishers deserve more money if you give your old books to a library or a book store for resale?
 
Because they already sold their product. If I paid $60 for their game, they don't deserve more money after just because they feel like it.

It's laughable to me, that somehow EA or Activision thinks they deserve money if I want to sell my game on Ebay or something. Especially since people have been doing it for the past three decades.

Since when does any company feel entitled to second hand sale money and what makes the games industry unique in this regard? Do book publishers deserve more money if you give your old books to a library or a book store for resale?

Would it not be differing laws for software which is how games are treated as opposed to movies or music?

Although I think those lines are blurred these days.
 

J10

Banned
Because they already sold their product. If I paid $60 for their game, they don't deserve more money after just because they feel like it.

It's laughable to me, that somehow EA or Activision thinks they deserve money if I want to sell my game on Ebay or something. Especially since people have been doing it for the past three decades.

Since when does any company feel entitled to second hand sale money and what makes the games industry unique in this regard? Do book publishers deserve more money if you give your old books to a library or a book store for resale?

I'm asking why product makers of all kinds aren't entitled to a piece of second hand sales - games, books, cars, whatever. What is it about having already sold it once that precludes them from being entitled to a piece of resales?
 

Madness

Member
I'm asking why product makers of all kinds aren't entitled to a piece of second hand sales - games, books, cars, whatever. What is it about having already sold it once that precludes them from being entitled to a piece of resales?

Probably because they no longer own the item? That it becomes mine? Otherwise it's no longer called buying and selling but loaning.

You don't buy a fridge only to have Maytag say that while you bought it, are using it, it still belongs to them and that they can take it back at anytime or if you want to sell it, you need to pay money.

Like I don't get what you're asking here?

Once they sold the item, they don't have anything to do with it anymore. It's mine, it's my property, I paid for it, I can use it however I want. I can destroy it if I want, they can't just show up at my house one day and ask for it back, so why do they get money if I sell it months of years from now? They got their money, and I'm the one who used and took care of the product. Apply it to any item. Sounds pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
Ignore that idiot.
His posts are always that kind of post and he perfectly fits the description Devo used for some juniors who want to be a part of HaloGAF.


Back to Halo peeps, the console talk is better in the threads for it or in HolaGAF.


Anybody watching AGL Knoxville this weekend?
 

J10

Banned
Probably because they no longer own the item? That it becomes mine? Otherwise it's no longer called buying and selling but loaning.

You don't buy a fridge only to have Maytag say that while you bought it, are using it, it still belongs to them and that they can take it back at anytime or if you want to sell it, you need to pay money.

Like I don't get what you're asking here?

Once they sold the item, they don't have anything to do with it anymore. It's mine, it's my property, I paid for it, I can use it however I want. I can destroy it if I want, they can't just show up at my house one day and ask for it back, so why do they get money if I sell it months of years from now? They got their money, and I'm the one who used and took care of the product. Apply it to any item. Sounds pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

So you own a game disc, but you don't own the game on the disc - that's someone's intellectual property. I think that's the same as owning a fridge, but you don't own the design of the fridge. You can't claim, I think, that you own the design of the game or the fridge. If you sell the disc or the fridge that you own, it's technically not just the physical item you're selling, but also it's design, right? Why exactly can't Maytag ask you not to resell their fridge design?
 

willow ve

Member
So you own a game disc, but you don't own the game on the disc - that's someone's intellectual property. I think that's the same as owning a fridge, but you don't own the design of the fridge. You can't claim, I think, that you own the design of the game or the fridge. If you sell the disc or the fridge that you own, it's technically not just the physical item you're selling, but also it's design, right? Why exactly can't Maytag ask you not to resell their fridge design?
Because that is fundamentally changing the rights people have as consumers. It's the law of first sale, or first sale doctrine.

If I buy a good I am now the owner of that good. I can sell it, destroy it, use it for alternative purposes, etc. I can do this because it is mine. If you can't do those things it is not a purchase, it is a lease.

You are not selling trade secrets or infringing copyright by selling a good, you are simply exchanging your right of ownership for either money or another good. Should corporations be entitled to a percentage of barter trades? If I do three hours of landscape work in exchange for an Xbox do I need to mow Microsoft's lawn?
 

Tawpgun

Member
Because that is fundamentally changing the rights people have as consumers. It's the law of first sale, it first sale doctrine.

If I buy a good I am now the owner of that good. I can sell it, destroy it, use it for alternative purposes, etc. I can do this because it is mine. If you can't do those things it is not a purchase, it is a lease.
What about those mattress tags you can't rip
 

J10

Banned
Because that is fundamentally changing the rights people have as consumers. It's the law of first sale, it first sale doctrine.

If I buy a good I am now the owner of that good. I can sell it, destroy it, use it for alternative purposes, etc. I can do this because it is mine. If you can't do those things it is not a purchase, it is a lease.

Microsoft and game publishers are breaking the law here? Or are they officially leasing games now? Would it say so somewhere on the game case or something?
 

J10

Banned
What about those mattress tags you can't rip

I immediately thought of Pee Wee's Big Adventure.

pRDHI3Y.jpg
 

willow ve

Member
In the EU, as of July 2012 it is illegal to prohibit the sale of software licenses even if they only exist in digital downloaded form (ie no physical disc to resell).

It will be interesting to see how these policies pay out in the EU. As long as you are lawfully the owner if the game then you should be able to resell it, even if you are the second or third owner. Maybe EU will save us.
 
I don't get why consumers are such overly sensitive babies. Steam has employed similar methods for ages and I don't think I've ever found it more efficient than Microsoft's amazingly generous marketplace. I mean, think about it: I don't want to legally own my games. I didn't make the disc, did you? Nope! Microsoft did. In fact, I wish every console dominated the living room with the unlimited power of The Cloud™ and informed me of new available Mountain Dew Game Fuel™ releases while supplies last!
 

789shadow

Banned
In the EU, as of July 2012 it is illegal to prohibit the sale of software licenses even if they only exist in digital downloaded form (ie no physical disc to resell).

It will be interesting to see how these policies pay out in the EU. As long as you are lawfully the owner if the game then you should be able to resell it, even if you are the second or third owner. Maybe EU will save us.
Microsoft didn't care about anything outside the US in the first place with the XBone.
 
So, I just bought the Sabertooth Elite controller from Amazon now that it's back in stock. Hopefully it's worth it, but it's got to be better than the shitty slow-turn Reach controller that I have now.
 

willow ve

Member
So, I just bought the Sabertooth Elite controller from Amazon now that it's back in stock. Hopefully it's worth it, but it's got to be better than the shitty slow-turn Reach controller that I have now.
You can fix slow turn with a knife and a screw driver. Most slow turn comes from the stick not being able to travel all the way in one direction due to the plastic of the controller face being the wrong dimension. Take off the face plate and carve out a larger diameter hole for the slow turn stick. Sand smooth and you're done.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
You can fix slow turn with a knife and a screw driver. Most slow turn comes from the stick not being able to travel all the way in one direction due to the plastic of the controller face being the wrong dimension. Take off the face plate and carve out a larger diameter hole for the slow turn stick. Sand smooth and you're done.

Yup. I did it with all of my controllers. Besides the MLG one of course. Super easy to do.
 
Yup. I did it with all of my controllers. Besides the MLG one of course. Super easy to do.
My controller requires a star-tipped head with a hole in the center to open it. As a carpenter I have about 500 tools in my garage, but not that damned tip. Anyone know where to get it, because I haven't been able to find one at Home Depot.
 

Ghazi

Member
H5 isn't coming next year. I doubt there will be a trailer for it at E3.

You know? GUYS TASHI IS A PAID 343 POSTER!!!!!

343 pays me to say shit they haven't announced or talked about. THAT MAKES SENSE.
It's all the SLRP that gave you away. When I put your posts in Google Translate all that comes out is "SLRP SLRP SLRPdy SLRP"
<3 Tashi

But seriously, you could be a double agent for all we know,
SLRPing
working for 343i and then leaking shit secretly. Frankie and David's only here to keep an eye on you.
 
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